Ok.....since people on prince.org have lost all sense of civility, like most other public (especially online) spheres, I'll preface by saying please limit your response to disagreements about the SUBSTANCE. For all those who ridicule this post - advocate it to be locked - say"here we go again," or otherwise spend too much energy bashing something non-substnatively that you have no obligation to read.......pass over it if it makes you so upset...

I was listening to "Underneath the Cream," a song released in 2001. It sounds remarkably similar (sonically, musically, lyrically) to songs released in 2007 with Planet Earth.

The theory/topic I suggest is - therein lies the problem. Today - songs spanning 6 years sound like they could be on the same album.

Go back to any point pre-1995 and I don't think you could say the same thing. Nothing on Gold sounds like it could've been placed on Batman or Lovesexy. Nothing in Batman, or Lovesexy sounds like it could've been on 1999 or Purple Rain or ATWIAD.

Pre-1995 prince was changing up his sound and evolving. Since 1998, however, his music has for the most part been stagnate - with songs from 2001 sounding like they could on an album released in 2007. Anyone see my point or disagree?

I have to agree because I don't like UTC or anything else on TCI for pretty much the exact same reasons...I didn't care for anything on PE.

The Prince music area from about 1998 to present day...just sounds very fake, forced and yes...stagnate...to me.

There have been a few exceptions! Unfortunately, those few exceptions weren't...exactly...new.

i disagree greatly. i think sometimes we fans have too much information at our disposal and sometimes may be unaware of how the artistic process works in general let alone for a SPECIFIC artist, in this case Prince. we GET what they give us WHEN they give it to us. (disregarding boots, etc.) then we are tempted to rearrange things in the way WE see fit or how we think they should go.

For example though The Dance existed long before 3121, i think it found a home on that album, but that's just me. I think the "update" fit but if i wanted to place it on an album recorded from the same era just because....you get my point? Songs like Shy and Dolphin could've easily been on other albums

i think an artist can be intentionally thematic and cohesive (1999, Lovesexy) or sprawling, (ATWIAD, SOTT) or thematically consistent sonically sprawling etc. (TRC, PE in large part). Bambi could've been on Lotus (its a rocker that stood out on a largely R & Bish album).

i try to suspend expectations and try to experience each song and album and not compare or get caught up in nostalgia

but stagnate and fake since 1998, Prince, hell to the naw!!! (even if you DON'T like TRC for starters)

this is generally correct but not unexpected. this is just a result of going from 1) 19 - 40 and 2) changes in recording technology which really hasnt changed much in the last 10-15 years.

Pop Music in general has been stuck in rut for about 15-20 years now

[Edited 3/4/11 16:18pm]

datdude said:

i disagree greatly. i think sometimes we fans have too much information at our disposal and sometimes may be unaware of how the artistic process works in general let alone for a SPECIFIC artist, in this case Prince. we GET what they give us WHEN they give it to us. (disregarding boots, etc.) then we are tempted to rearrange things in the way WE see fit or how we think they should go.

For example though The Dance existed long before 3121, i think it found a home on that album, but that's just me. I think the "update" fit but if i wanted to place it on an album recorded from the same era just because....you get my point? Songs like Shy and Dolphin could've easily been on other albums

i think an artist can be intentionally thematic and cohesive (1999, Lovesexy) or sprawling, (ATWIAD, SOTT) or thematically consistent sonically sprawling etc. (TRC, PE in large part). Bambi could've been on Lotus (its a rocker that stood out on a largely R & Bish album).

i try to suspend expectations and try to experience each song and album and not compare or get caught up in nostalgia

but stagnate and fake since 1998, Prince, hell to the naw!!! (even if you DON'T like TRC for starters)

I don't think you understood the OP at all.

Jatrig said:

Ok.....since people on prince.org have lost all sense of civility, like most other public (especially online) spheres, I'll preface by saying please limit your response to disagreements about the SUBSTANCE. For all those who ridicule this post - advocate it to be locked - say"here we go again," or otherwise spend too much energy bashing something non-substnatively that you have no obligation to read.......pass over it if it makes you so upset...

I was listening to "Underneath the Cream," a song released in 2001. It sounds remarkably similar (sonically, musically, lyrically) to songs released in 2007 with Planet Earth.

The theory/topic I suggest is - therein lies the problem. Today - songs spanning 6 years sound like they could be on the same album.

Go back to any point pre-1995 and I don't think you could say the same thing. Nothing on Gold sounds like it could've been placed on Batman or Lovesexy. Nothing in Batman, or Lovesexy sounds like it could've been on 1999 or Purple Rain or ATWIAD.

Pre-1995 prince was changing up his sound and evolving. Since 1998, however, his music has for the most part been stagnate - with songs from 2001 sounding like they could on an album released in 2007. Anyone see my point or disagree?

I agree with you completely, but I wish you hadn't started off with that lame little disclaimer.

Prince has been holding songs for his entire career. Tick Tick Bang recorded in 1981 sounds like it could fit on either Controversy or 1999, or on an album in between. The version of Bang on G Bridge was recorded with the sound of most of that album. SOTT was around for years before it had the Aids reference, and was molded into the sound of that release. He recently admitted Future Soul Song was lying around for awhile, and it sounds like it could've been on damb near any album. If you really think of it, Other than Graffiti Bridge, most of his albums from For You to The Rainbow Children had their own personality. It wasn't the songs themselves, it was how he recorded them. His latest stuff isn't quite the same, but he still tries to make them sound different.

TwiliteKid said:

datdude said:

i disagree greatly. i think sometimes we fans have too much information at our disposal and sometimes may be unaware of how the artistic process works in general let alone for a SPECIFIC artist, in this case Prince. we GET what they give us WHEN they give it to us. (disregarding boots, etc.) then we are tempted to rearrange things in the way WE see fit or how we think they should go.

For example though The Dance existed long before 3121, i think it found a home on that album, but that's just me. I think the "update" fit but if i wanted to place it on an album recorded from the same era just because....you get my point? Songs like Shy and Dolphin could've easily been on other albums

i think an artist can be intentionally thematic and cohesive (1999, Lovesexy) or sprawling, (ATWIAD, SOTT) or thematically consistent sonically sprawling etc. (TRC, PE in large part). Bambi could've been on Lotus (its a rocker that stood out on a largely R & Bish album).

i try to suspend expectations and try to experience each song and album and not compare or get caught up in nostalgia

but stagnate and fake since 1998, Prince, hell to the naw!!! (even if you DON'T like TRC for starters)

I don't think you understood the OP at all.

understood u completely, just disagreed; esp. on the part about him being sonically stagnant since 1998, also gave specific examples of songs from eras that COULD have fit on other albums that u said could not (both are only opinions) but nonetheless.

I am not so sure prince was really changing in the 80's so much as showing us different sides of his personality.

By 1995 or so he had probably shown most of what he could do, and then it may have seemed like he became less creative (and maybe he did).

But there is no reason for me to think that just because I had never heard Prince do a song like Kiss before 1986 that the style was new to HIM too. It was just the first time he showed us that style.

NDRU said:

BlackCandle said:

NDRU said:

I am not so sure prince was really changing in the 80's so much as showing us different sides of his personality.

By 1995 or so he had probably shown most of what he could do, and then it may have seemed like he became less creative (and maybe he did).

But there is no reason for me to think that just because I had never heard Prince do a song like Kiss before 1986 that the style was new to HIM too. It was just the first time he showed us that style.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, unfortunately Kiss is a bad example. Prince had been struggling with producing this song, to the point that he gave it to Mazarati and only took it back when he heard (and liked) what they'd done with it. Regarding his later albums, as others have said, he has always stored up songs and returned to them later, updating the sound. It's true that alot of songs sound like they could be on earlier albums, but I'm of the opinion that (as I believe has been suggested in other threads), he's been paying homage to his own earlier work lately. I am, however, intrigued as to whether Prince is going to hit us with his own interpretation of Disco music shortly. Given some of the disco covers he's been doing and W2A itself, I think it's likely.

yes I see what you mean. But a major part of Kiss's novelty (to me) was the falsetto. Having been a Prince fan since 1999, I was not as familiar with his falsetto, but an older fan would have known that he started out ONLY singing in falsetto so this was actually nothing new.

Similarly, if he explores disco, that would not be something new either, since his first two albums had a strong disco sound. But I would love if he did an organic type of production like he did on those albums!

Not sure if "Underneath The Cream" is a very good example in this regard. Does it really sound like the stuff on Planet Earth? Mr. Goodnight, perhaps.

This "music not changing" thing doesn't apply to just Prince, it applies to many artists that are not following the most obvious trends (e.g. the current R&B / trance -hybrid popularized by Lady Gaga and the like - in itself something of a throwback to earlier styles). A lot of the changes that seemed to happen with the times were actually changes in technology. Different recording methods and electronic instruments became popular and that greatly changed the overall sound. However, it's been more stagnant since the early 00s or the late-90s. Now, of course, with Prince works like "Parade" sounded different from his earlier works more due to his artistic vision.

In general, I'd say you are right. I've been saying that you could pick out 12 random songs from his albums since Musicology and there's a high probability it will result in a fairly cohesive collection of songs. That's far less likely with his 80s, or even with his 90s, output.

TwiliteKid said:

Jatrig said:

Ok.....since people on prince.org have lost all sense of civility, like most other public (especially online) spheres, I'll preface by saying please limit your response to disagreements about the SUBSTANCE. For all those who ridicule this post - advocate it to be locked - say"here we go again," or otherwise spend too much energy bashing something non-substnatively that you have no obligation to read.......pass over it if it makes you so upset...

I was listening to "Underneath the Cream," a song released in 2001. It sounds remarkably similar (sonically, musically, lyrically) to songs released in 2007 with Planet Earth.

The theory/topic I suggest is - therein lies the problem. Today - songs spanning 6 years sound like they could be on the same album.

Go back to any point pre-1995 and I don't think you could say the same thing. Nothing on Gold sounds like it could've been placed on Batman or Lovesexy. Nothing in Batman, or Lovesexy sounds like it could've been on 1999 or Purple Rain or ATWIAD.

Pre-1995 prince was changing up his sound and evolving. Since 1998, however, his music has for the most part been stagnate - with songs from 2001 sounding like they could on an album released in 2007. Anyone see my point or disagree?

I agree with you completely, but I wish you hadn't started off with that lame little disclaimer.

Yea, I'm with you - I was in a pithy mood. We all have our moments.

NDRU said:

I am not so sure prince was really changing in the 80's so much as showing us different sides of his personality.

By 1995 or so he had probably shown most of what he could do, and then it may have seemed like he became less creative (and maybe he did).

But there is no reason for me to think that just because I had never heard Prince do a song like Kiss before 1986 that the style was new to HIM too. It was just the first time he showed us that style.

That's an interesting perspective and one I haven't thought of. Although, it makes it seem as if Prince never grew as an artist, even during the 80's but was merely exposing different parts of what already existed to us. That seems hard to believe - it is much more likely he grew and explored new areas from 197- to 1998 than he just having had all of it in him and only exposing certain parts to us at different times.

As to the point about him re-releasing songs like tick tick bang bang - the 1983 version of that song sounds wholly different than the 1990 version -- can't even be compared to one another - and they reflect where he was as an artist at the time.

novabrkr said:

Not sure if "Underneath The Cream" is a very good example in this regard. Does it really sound like the stuff on Planet Earth? Mr. Goodnight, perhaps.

This "music not changing" thing doesn't apply to just Prince, it applies to many artists that are not following the most obvious trends (e.g. the current R&B / trance -hybrid popularized by Lady Gaga and the like - in itself something of a throwback to earlier styles). A lot of the changes that seemed to happen with the times were actually changes in technology. Different recording methods and electronic instruments became popular and that greatly changed the overall sound. However, it's been more stagnant since the early 00s or the late-90s. Now, of course, with Prince works like "Parade" sounded different from his earlier works more due to his artistic vision.

In general, I'd say you are right. I've been saying that you could pick out 12 random songs from his albums since Musicology and there's a high probability it will result in a fairly cohesive collection of songs. That's far less likely with his 80s, or even with his 90s, output.

Technology is a huge issue I didn't think of - and probably does account for why his 80's songs sound so different even within a 5 year span -- but I'm with you 100% on the last point re: 80's v 90's output

Jatrig said:

Pre-1995 prince was changing up his sound and evolving. Since 1998, however, his music has for the most part been stagnate - with songs from 2001 sounding like they could on an album released in 2007. Anyone see my point or disagree?

I'm not sure I agree with the specific examples of UTC and PE - but I see your point generally and agree with it.

There' stuff on 20Ten that sounds like NPS. Prince really isn't doing much in terms of updating his production ideas from what I can hear - which is a shame because his song writing has taken a dramatic nose dive too.

Fans have been saying it for years, too many years actually - but Prince's craft needs some new INPUT. Without fresh input, the OUTPUT is always going to be stagnant.

Jatrig said:

NDRU said:

I am not so sure prince was really changing in the 80's so much as showing us different sides of his personality.

By 1995 or so he had probably shown most of what he could do, and then it may have seemed like he became less creative (and maybe he did).

But there is no reason for me to think that just because I had never heard Prince do a song like Kiss before 1986 that the style was new to HIM too. It was just the first time he showed us that style.

That's an interesting perspective and one I haven't thought of. Although, it makes it seem as if Prince never grew as an artist, even during the 80's but was merely exposing different parts of what already existed to us. That seems hard to believe - it is much more likely he grew and explored new areas from 197- to 1998 than he just having had all of it in him and only exposing certain parts to us at different times.

As to the point about him re-releasing songs like tick tick bang bang - the 1983 version of that song sounds wholly different than the 1990 version -- can't even be compared to one another - and they reflect where he was as an artist at the time.

yes that is a good point. I do think it was new to Prince as well, in the sense that it was the first time he recorded music in those styles.

I'd say he was growing as a recording artist and as a musician, but not necessarily creating all these things from scratch, but rather tapping into existing parts of his personality for the first time on record.

But yes, he grew as an artist and musician and person. Some of those influences were new, like an appreciation for Miles Davis that did not come until the mid 80's.

We all grow, after all. But if I started writing songs today, many of them would come from collected musical experiences that I had amassed over the course of a lifetime.

I think both things are true, and that Prince continues to grow, but cannot show us new sounds forever (or at least not at the pace that he records songs)

stillwaiting said:

Prince has been holding songs for his entire career. Tick Tick Bang recorded in 1981 sounds like it could fit on either Controversy or 1999, or on an album in between. The version of Bang on G Bridge was recorded with the sound of most of that album. SOTT was around for years before it had the Aids reference, and was molded into the sound of that release. He recently admitted Future Soul Song was lying around for awhile, and it sounds like it could've been on damb near any album. If you really think of it, Other than Graffiti Bridge, most of his albums from For You to The Rainbow Children had their own personality. It wasn't the songs themselves, it was how he recorded them. His latest stuff isn't quite the same, but he still tries to make them sound different.

A bit off-topic, but did he really? When/where?

Planet Earth was NOT a planned cd. It was thrown 2gether at the last possible moment so that Prince could rearrange/finalize what he really wanted 2 do with Lotusflower. (just my opinion of course)

Graycap23 said:

Planet Earth was NOT a planned cd. It was thrown 2gether at the last possible moment so that Prince could rearrange/finalize what he really wanted 2 do with Lotusflower. (just my opinion of course)

But didn't you hear the complete LP before it was released?????!!!!!!!

wasitgood4u said:

Graycap23 said:

Planet Earth was NOT a planned cd. It was thrown 2gether at the last possible moment so that Prince could rearrange/finalize what he really wanted 2 do with Lotusflower. (just my opinion of course)

But didn't you hear the complete LP before it was released?????!!!!!!!

No comment.

Graycap23 said:

wasitgood4u said:

But didn't you hear the complete LP before it was released?????!!!!!!!

No comment.

Dave1992 said:

stillwaiting said:

Prince has been holding songs for his entire career. Tick Tick Bang recorded in 1981 sounds like it could fit on either Controversy or 1999, or on an album in between. The version of Bang on G Bridge was recorded with the sound of most of that album. SOTT was around for years before it had the Aids reference, and was molded into the sound of that release. He recently admitted Future Soul Song was lying around for awhile, and it sounds like it could've been on damb near any album. If you really think of it, Other than Graffiti Bridge, most of his albums from For You to The Rainbow Children had their own personality. It wasn't the songs themselves, it was how he recorded them. His latest stuff isn't quite the same, but he still tries to make them sound different.

A bit off-topic, but did he really? When/where?

I can't remember, but I think it was either Daily Mirror or Ebony where Prince noted that Future Soul Song had been lying around for awhile. I'm wating for Bart Van Halen to correct me with a reply like..."For Fuck's Sake, every living human knows it was the French Courier you moron."

Graycap23 said:

Planet Earth was NOT a planned cd. It was thrown 2gether at the last possible moment so that Prince could rearrange/finalize what he really wanted 2 do with Lotusflower. (just my opinion of course)

Not a bad opinion. I would say you are 30% right on that, but who the hell really knows? Had he just released nothing, I would have loved a Planet Earth/Lotus Flow3r package a lot more than with MPLS Sound. Or just one Cd with the best songs from all 3.

stillwaiting said:

Dave1992 said:

A bit off-topic, but did he really? When/where?

I can't remember, but I think it was either Daily Mirror or Ebony where Prince noted that Future Soul Song had been lying around for awhile. I'm wating for Bart Van Halen to correct me with a reply like..."For Fuck's Sake, every living human knows it was the French Courier you moron."

I thought I had all the interviews from that period, but I never read about that. Still, thank you very much!

NouveauDance said:

Jatrig said:

Pre-1995 prince was changing up his sound and evolving. Since 1998, however, his music has for the most part been stagnate - with songs from 2001 sounding like they could on an album released in 2007. Anyone see my point or disagree?

I'm not sure I agree with the specific examples of UTC and PE - but I see your point generally and agree with it.

There' stuff on 20Ten that sounds like NPS. Prince really isn't doing much in terms of updating his production ideas from what I can hear - which is a shame because his song writing has taken a dramatic nose dive too.

Fans have been saying it for years, too many years actually - but Prince's craft needs some new INPUT. Without fresh input, the OUTPUT is always going to be stagnant.

This has been my opinion of late.

datdude said:

TwiliteKid said:

I don't think you understood the OP at all.

understood u completely, just disagreed; esp. on the part about him being sonically stagnant since 1998, also gave specific examples of songs from eras that COULD have fit on other albums that u said could not (both are only opinions) but nonetheless.

Jatrig, you don't have to apologise for the disclaimer...it was a very nice touch to the beginning of your comment...most of us are grown here, people need to be reminded more often than they need to be instructed...

TwiliteKid...normally when people agree or disagree with someone..they give reasons to back it up, ad hominems = failure.

I'm with datdude on this one, we really get what's given to us when it's given...we can't get into the mind of the artist..though we do try...

As far as where Prince is now, an over 50 artist. As much as it hurts me to say he is not what he once was, save for Lotus Flow3r, which I think is better than anything he has done since 1988, I also say he is the best over 50 artist of all time. The only ones even in the same galaxy with him would be Elton John, U2, and maybe one or two others. U2 hasn't even released an album since they turned 50, as No Line was from 2009. I have heard some of U2's tracks for their next album, and most of them were written before the big five o, and U2's stuff is not close to where they used to be.