Okay, I'm gay and I stopped buying Prince's records after the NPG's Newpower Soul album. I've only recently rekindled my interest after moving home and organising my records into alphabetical order (yeah, I know!)...

There were two songs where I found the lyrics mildly offensive:

01) Peach

The lady in question is so gorgeous that she could "turn a gay"... If that isn't stupid enough, he follows it up with "preacher to a sinner". My heart sank when I heard that line.

02) Chaos And Disorder

"He's gay, used to mean he's happy". Well two points here:
"Gay" had been used to define a non-heterosexual orientation for decades - he used the word himself back in 1980. The definition of "gay" was pretty widespread by the late 60s. Its a stupid inconsiderate line - why even sing it...

The other point is why should he or anyone care what a minority is called or chooses to be called? If somebody else had sung: "Afro-American, used to mean a Yank with big hair", it would have been equally stupid and insensitive.

Homophobia really is the last respectable prejudice.

I won't ever buy The Rainbow Children because I hate ALL religion equally.

But he's still a genius.

Oh -- jeez, to count the times his lyrics have upset me! But never directly any gay references. The ones you list don't bother me at all. The lyrics in "The Rainbow Children" still bother at times. Altho I do have "an accurate knowledge of Christ and the Father" -- I'm sure my definition of accurate varies greatly from his.

Not lyrics, but the worst for me were his comments at the Northrup show during the first celebration, that I interpreted as "if u don't believe what I believe, there's no place for u here." Whatever. So it was a welcome relief at ONA in L.A. that he changed that tune to the more inclusive "we should champion our similarities."

But I'm pretty much over putting too much stock in what he says -- whether lyrically or whatever -- to be upset anymore. He's like Colorado weather... if u don't like what he says, wait a minute and it will change.

BinaryJustin said:

Pity, because you are depriving yourself of some really great music. Over the years it has become quite easy for me to ignore Prince's pseudo-religious mumbo jumbo and just enjoy the music for what it is.

As for the homophobia question, this sounds like the PC brigade looking for issues where there are none. Prince's lyrics don't include any overtly homophobic content in my opinion, and those examples you gave are pretty harmless turns of phrase.

BinaryJustin said:

tell me...are there little men that live in your roof that are trying to get you?

BinaryJustin said:

He sings "He's gay used to mean he's happy - nowadays happy ain't allowed", and then there's that army music bit.
Isn't that plain criticism of the fact that gay soldiers can't be open about their homosexuality?

You can take a dick but you can't take a joke/lyric?

These lyrics aren't offensive to me either.

The Peach lyric-Turn a gay Preacher to a sinner. I see this as an illustration of just how hardcore this woman really is. She's all that, to the point of turning a gay preacher straight. I think it's kinda clever actually.

The 2nd-He's gay used to mean he's happy (nowadays happy aint allowed)

That lyric specifically speaks of the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the US armed forces. Nothing offensive there.

As a gay man, I have never been offended by Prince's lyrics. I've been more offended at the religous stuff than anything dealing with sexuality.

ian said:

true dat -- the quality of the music far outweighs the lyrical digressions

I'm a (politically incorrect) gay fan, and some gay people need to seriously lighten up.

The lyrics mentioned aren't of any significance whatsoever. If you don't want to buy records because of religious or sexual offence, you're missing out.

BinaryJustin said:

Nice one.

It truly is a fucking crap album.

A friend of mine who loves P even more than I do thought it was so dreadful she burst out laughing and after the third song wouldn't even listen to it.

To all you Rainbow Children fans...there is something wrong with your head.
[This message was edited Wed Feb 5 15:40:41 PST 2003 by Cloudbuster]

Cloudbuster said:

puh-leeze! u like a-ha, how can u be taken seriously?

I tossed TRC cd out the window, it is rubbish. If it was an instrumental cd, i would love it. I struck it from my collection. He was not singing to me, he was singing to himself or the man in the mirror. ps: The ONA box went straight to ebay as well. He better recognize we are droppin like flys.

jthad1129 said:

really? wow. very interesting. what was most offensive to me about the lyrics is that they're very common and unimaginative (the "storyline"), and in a lot of places, clumsy. retelling the bible is hardly "controversial." he definitely generated some strong feelings, though.

on the plus side, having a single theme stopped it from the ADD plague of a grab bag of songs, as prior releases had become.
[This message was edited Wed Feb 5 16:26:37 PST 2003 by madartista]

rdhull said:

Are you offering both at the same time? :p

I can accept that the military music in Chaos And Disorder refers to the U.S. Army's "don't ask, don't tell" policy but why did he make reference to it in the first place? What was he trying to say?

I can also accept that the "turn a gay" line in Peach is sort of funny, but not when its followed up with the "preacher to a sinner" line.

I am not strenuously politically correct - its just that I held Prince as being an icon during my teenage years for his image as well as the music.

I never thought of him as being gay, but what I liked about him was his stance of ambiguity. The "so what" attitude towards people thinking that he may not be completely straight.

The nearest comparison I can think of is David Bowie. Its not a direct comparison because he has publically admitted his bisexuality in the past. In fact, it isn't a good comparison because if Bowie had sung those lyrics it would have meant something different as he had already laid his cards on the table. Prince's sexual identity was always transient in the past but he seems to have distanced himself from this stance in later years. I know that him saying "I'm straight" in The Truth has a double-meaning but I found it very alienating to hear him sing things like that.

Anybody here whom says its all about the music is lying. If it was all about the music, there wouldn't be endless topics in this forum about his personal relationships, his fashion sense etcetera...

We have all projected some part of our psyche onto him at some point or another, whether consciously or subconsciously. Unfortunately, the small sliver of his personality which let me identify with our rampantly heterosexual icon as being like me, disappeared a long time ago.

I'm not usually this morose. I've just never verbalised this feeling before and I'm sorry if I've come across as joyless or unfunny. Doesn't anybody know what I mean?

madartista said:

Yeah, i like A-ha. And their Memorial Beach album was recorded at Paisley Park and Prince loved it. Oh look, you like Lenny (I've no soul and I'm a shit lyricist) Kravitz.

How can you be taken seriously?

I am sorry you feel offended by the lyrics you cited, but with all due respect I think you're being a bit oversensitive and reading something into them that wasn't intended.

BinaryJustin said:

100% True.


I don't let it get away in the way of the music, but I agree with everything you said above too.

Cloudbuster said:

Prince liked it because he got a paycheck. And besides, he likes Larry Graham. And as for Lenny -- dammit! U got me! Yet another

Xpertlover said:

I agree, I love those lyrics. To me, it also refers to how same sex couples were actually accepted in the distant past (hundreds of years ago). Go to really old graveyards in England and look for two women or men buried together. Some of the tombstones clearly celebrate their life together as a couple. Being gay and happy was allowed. Now not so much.

The one time that I became slightly offended/confused was in "Madrid 2 Chicago" (a truly awful song) where he says, "Bills 2 pay, my hair-dresser's gay..." I don't get it.

And how can you think Prince is homophobic? Look at him! I always assumed he was bi. And imagined that Levi was his man. Levi...

MrBliss said:

BinaryJustin said:

I agree with you, BinaryJustin. I used to identify more with Prince in the 80's when I was in the closet and took the ambiguous approach. "I'm not going to lie about it, but I'm not going to tell anyone about it either." Prince was playful about it and had a sense of humour. That's a great attitude. But he's not like that anymore. Oh well, religion will do that to you. It'll suck the life right outta ya! Ssssuck!

I know I'm going on a bit but I don't want anybody to think that I'm a political-puff. I'm not!

In fact, I can listen to Eminem and find him funny - in fact I think he's quite talented and I think he has the right to say exactly what he wants in his music.

The difference with the Prince lyrics which I've mentioned is that Prince's image in the past was playfully "who fucking cares?" and now it isn't.

If Eminem started out wearing make-up, high-heeled pumps and lace, and singing "am I black or white, am I straight or gay?" THEN I would now have a problem with his lyrics. Christ, the lyrics I've mentioned are mild compared to some Ragga & Dancehall coming out of Jamaica these days, with rhymes about setting fags on fire... It was just jarring to hear somebody so closely linked (in my mind) with sexual freedom to say those things - no matter how mild.

I'm not saying its hypocritical to change your mind on certain things - change is good. It's just a slap in the face when the hero who got you through your teenage years becomes something else completely different when you reach thirty-something - well, 30.

The worst thing that anybody could ever hear their own personal idol ever say is "I'm not like you and don't want to be like you".

I just wish he wasn't so religious. In the past, I equated his God-bothering with spirituality and admired him for the way that he expressed it. These days, it doesn't sound like spirituality - it sounds like religion. There's a difference!

BinaryJustin said:

it's the projecting part that gets us in trouble. he's never going to be exactly what each person wants him to be. get through that, and the rest is easy. and yes, I totally understand and relate to what you're saying. i went through a long period where i felt alienated by him and his work. then i learned to let go of the emotional attachment. entirely? no, of course not. and it's not "just about the music" for me, but I don't put too much stock in what he says -- and I'm free to give my own interpretations to whatever he does put out.

BinaryJustin said:

Well trip on this..several women felt as you do because the perosn they were admiring was not singing to them so to speak. Prince could be called on having all kinds of woemn in his movies, music, vids etc but no black wommen ..they were all Neneh Cherry look-a-likes or half hispanic etc..yeah he had Vanity and Susan etc but still..Prince has always had a way of alienating "someone" somehow etc even in his free for all stance..at this juncture he is more steadfast and specific in his beliefs and ambuguity is thrown out the wiondow and I realize it is sort of a wake up call for different parts of his fans and the public. But I really do not think he would discriminate etc against hiw white,black,gay etc fans in the long run. I stated months ago that that Uptown is no longer what it once was...

here's some more .."lady cab driver" should have been "person cab driver" ..."let's pretend we're married" is obviously mocking gay ppl because i believe at the time it was written...there were no gay marriages...so all they could do was pretend... "cream" ...the term shaboogey bop ...is latin for "i hate queers" ...... "pussy control" implies that the only thing that can have power over a man is a vagina ...an obvious slur..."darling nikki" ...should have been "darling ted"
there are countless other examples of prince's attemps to upset the gay community...can anyone think of any more? ..

BinaryJustin said:

you say and post what you feel and what you want. we got your back, no pun intended.

i only hate them when they suck. see also: jughead, freaks on this side, push it up, etc.

rdhull said:

that's very funny!

AaronUnlimited said:

I think Justin hates it because the lyrics have no content of "sucking" lol..j/k

BinaryJustin said:

Thats ironic, because the only thing wrong with religion is the (sometimes) lack of tolerance for other peoples beliefs, and respecting others peoples choices. Being gay, you should understand that, and not let the way someone else chooses to lead their life influence what you think of them, or what they are trying to say.

Would it be fair if someone refused to listen to what you had to say, because they 'hate ALL gays equally'?

Face it, everyone believes different things. God, satan, homosexualtiy, heterosexuality, celibacy. We all believe different stuff. But as long as we all respect each others beliefs and treat each other right, then we'll all get along just fine.