TrevorAyer said:

pald1 said:

Ok, you're tiring me out. Forget your bogus, revisionist, second-hand, word of mouth, paranoid version of history. Not what I'm interested in. Talk about now.

How. Am. I. Programmed?

Today.

Examples, please.

Give it to me live and direct.

programming takes place in your school, history slanting wars we've fought, how they were started, instilling the idea that the only way to survive is to find your place in the system and be a slave. instilling the idea that our country is always right and justified in committing disgusting acts of murder daily.

all the media, tv, newspapers, radio owned by the same person, telling the same biased non investigative report with no research or verification. this has been used to justify to the programmed public that our constitution is irrelevant, that we can attack countries full of innocent people without good verified and valid cause.

we elect representatives based upon fear oriented programming, fake terror threats designed to boost the elite control over the masses with tsa screeners and unwarrented searches and wire tapping.

we are fed destructive chemicals in our food water and air constantly keeping the public sedated, stressed, distracted, sick, unable to think or stand up for our rights as humans, content to get sicker and sicker and die in a system designed to control and reduce the population.

you are programmed to accept your own oppression and to fear those who will not.

Thank you for saving me the time to rebutt.

I did not say Manson and Jones was or was not operatives of the US Govt. They were mentioned as people who used very simple mind control tactics and had groups of people following them to do what they wanted them to do.

As for 9-11-01 there was some type of conspiracy involved although I will not go as far as to say that the US Govt was involved in it. I tend to believe that a country backed these people to do what they did. There is solid evidence that radicals in the Pakistani govt was involved.

I will say that the vaunted FBI never had Osama Bin Ladin as a suspect for 9-11-01 and they believe that he is dead. This is documented by several credible sources but you never see this on mainstream media .

I don't have time to teach you the underground history of the US but there is more than enough credible evidence to suggest that you have at the very least been lied to.

muleFunk said:

TrevorAyer said:

programming takes place in your school, history slanting wars we've fought, how they were started, instilling the idea that the only way to survive is to find your place in the system and be a slave. instilling the idea that our country is always right and justified in committing disgusting acts of murder daily.

all the media, tv, newspapers, radio owned by the same person, telling the same biased non investigative report with no research or verification. this has been used to justify to the programmed public that our constitution is irrelevant, that we can attack countries full of innocent people without good verified and valid cause.

we elect representatives based upon fear oriented programming, fake terror threats designed to boost the elite control over the masses with tsa screeners and unwarrented searches and wire tapping.

we are fed destructive chemicals in our food water and air constantly keeping the public sedated, stressed, distracted, sick, unable to think or stand up for our rights as humans, content to get sicker and sicker and die in a system designed to control and reduce the population.

you are programmed to accept your own oppression and to fear those who will not.

Thank you for saving me the time to rebutt.

I did not say Manson and Jones was or was not operatives of the US Govt. They were mentioned as people who used very simple mind control tactics and had groups of people following them to do what they wanted them to do.

As for 9-11-01 there was some type of conspiracy involved although I will not go as far as to say that the US Govt was involved in it. I tend to believe that a country backed these people to do what they did. There is solid evidence that radicals in the Pakistani govt was involved.

I will say that the vaunted FBI never had Osama Bin Ladin as a suspect for 9-11-01 and they believe that he is dead. This is documented by several credible sources but you never see this on mainstream media .

I don't have time to teach you the underground history of the US but there is more than enough credible evidence to suggest that you have at the very least been lied to.

Looking through your verbiage, the last thing it is is a rebutt. There's nothing here that's definitive. Another predictable sign of the conspiracy theorist. You go to great lengths to underline what you don't say rather than what yo do. I agree with you that 9-11 'was some kind of conspiracy' and I can tell you that it involved a dozen or so hijackers. And implying that the Pakistani govt may have been inolved is hardly radical. All your saying is that a corrupt, totalitarian regime--that's pushed its own county into beggary and banckruptcy--might be involved in doing bad things. But, again, you don't want to commit.

You really have to stay away fromt those dodgy conspiracy websites. Mix it up a bit, ok?

Sorry, you're just not credible. I'm more mad at myself for bothering to engage.

Enjoy being clueless.

muleFunk said:

Enjoy being clueless.

Informed response from an excellent debater.

I repeat. Mad at myself for even bothering.

WATCHOUT NOW!!!

If you don't go alone with their system.

You might be labeled the BIG T.

pald1 said:

Another predictable sign of the conspiracy theorist.

Robot Alert! Assimilation has begun!

silkylee said:

WATCHOUT NOW!!!

If you don't go alone with their system.

You might be labeled the BIG T.

exactly, what makes me nervous is our big hero president obama did not repeal the patriot act like he promised, and apparently once accused they can hold you indefinately without representation or trial. fact is 90% of all people held as terrorists were not terrorists at all. we have a constitution that is the basis of our FREEDOM yet we as people allow our rights to disappear, like its normal. I think people are sleeping. That is to say, unable to shake off the programming enough to see this is happening and do something about it. Even speaking about it is frowned upon. freedom aint free they lock in a jail if you try to be.

silkylee said:

When Prince mentioned there were 8 presidents before Washington.

The first thought came to mind was, WHAT THE FUCK!!!

The next day I started asking people at my job. Lawyers, doctors, accountants, & etc.

They thought I was crazy. Only a few knew.

I started researching myself, and found out the first president name was John Hansen.

A BLACK MAN!

Maybe thats the reason why it's not being taught?

Also heard president Thomas Jefferson mother was a Moor.

Guess Obama isn't the first black president.

Umm... John Hanson wasn't black.

And Clinton was the first black president.

pald1 said:

pald1 said:

Ok, so would you admit to be programmed, then?

...and, becasue you so know much about it, what's the conspiracy?

-Programming takes place in schools (you want people to learn the history of everything?)

That's a bit evasive as an answer imo. As if there are no interests to be defended in society and as if the ruling elite, their politicians, their ruling class historians, and so on, aren't doing a good job in selecting historical facts, explaining them as they see convenient, and leaving out the not so desirable elements in their historical narrative. Is this because of their flawed "human nature"? Hardly, it's because contradictory interests, between rulers and ruled, do exist and there is an ideological battle taking place in the - more and more unequal - class societies we live in.

-Be a slave (Obviously not good but also doesn't understand the psychological need from some who want to be told what to do - read Freud).

Is this a psychological defense for political submission? If it is, I don't think it's very progressive or illuminating. Even if such psychological tendencies exist, and are reinforced by the kind of society we live in, wouldn't it be more fruitful to try to empower people?

-Media outlets have few owners (certainly not one, though), and some are more powerful than others. But a bigger organization means bigger resources...otherwise, the only news we'd get would be local.

Come on! The media are controlled by big capitalist conglomorates (Murdoch comes to mind) who have a vested interest in not telling things as they are. Which doesn't mean I support any or every "conspiracy theory", a lot of them are indeed not based on verifiable facts or plausible arguments.

Your comment about the media industry seems naive at best, and apologetic at worst. There have been quite a few books published, also by journalists, about the nefarious effects of commercialization and the profit motive on the quality of news reporting.

-The attacking countries with innocent people line is too vague. I can't answer.

Too vague? Come on! Have you never heard of the mass of innocent victims in Iraq, Afghanistan,...? US government support for dictorships galore (let's take Mubarak's Egypt as a current example - without US financial backing it's very doubtful his regime would have survived for decades...). Or wait, is this all down to the imperfect human nature of the CIA and US government... You might be on to something! Or, have Egyptians read too much Freud for all those years? Just maybe...

-Fake terror threats. You have proof they're fake? Elites have to go through TSA screeners too!

-The food and water line has some merit but you lose the plot connecting it to keeping people sick.

So, in summary, if you just let your points speak for themselves you might have something. In many cases, these things are the way they are because we are an imperfect species, trying to survive modernity.

Unfortunately I think that's the classical defense of ruling elites trying to defend unequal and unjust forms of government and society. It's a very ideological line of reasoning. Putting down economic crisis, war, social disruption,... to "an imperfect species" is intellectually a bit easy, and not very much supported by a concrete analysis of the facts you say you cling and adhere to so much, in other comments...

Trying to survive. We're all different. Some of us are good, some bad. The world looks exactly as it does when it's run by such a species. You let yourself down when you try to connect all these points towards some overarching conspiracy to keep us down. We both know life isn't that clear-cut. C'mon, you seem smarter.

How is this thread even still in this forum?

Poiple said:

How is this thread even still in this forum?

Good damn question.

TrevorAyer said:

pald1 said:

Another predictable sign of the conspiracy theorist.

Robot Alert! Assimilation has begun!

My contrarian stance is merely an effort to contol you all. Didn't you know?

Blackmuse said:

And everyone gave him heat and said wtf are you talking about and that he needed to check his facts... An educated American would know that under the articles of confederation there were 8 presidents. All of these preceded GW. Educated Americans would know this but instead far too many criticized prince and basically called him an idiot. Check your facts before foolishly ridiculing our man. I'm just a lurker but this always bothered me. Sorry if I come across rude

Prince. The man who tried to place racist a connection to the surname "Blackburn", rather than the truth that it was a common name in England in the 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th century, born out of the sight of Blaec (black) coal washing down the river Burna (Burn).

pald1 said:

TrevorAyer said:

Robot Alert! Assimilation has begun!

My contrarian stance is merely an effort to contol you all. Didn't you know?

Sorry, when u name call everyone a conspiracy thoeorist as a way of shooting down and categorizing everyone who participates in a topical conversation as a nut job or "smart" but not quite smart as you I have to wonder how much of your mind is home grown and how much has been replaced by electric circuits and automated response mechanisms. While I agree that you have made an effort to control us all by repeating the "official" programming over and over, kinda like tv and newspapers do, calling everyone nut jobs etc .. and being generally condescending .. I did know thats what u were up to. In fact it wasn't even a "theory". Oh wait if forgot, let me speak your language instead. Bleep blop zork bzzz repeat.

Regardless if there were 8 presidents before George Washington or the existence of 'Chemtrails', you cannot dispute the practice of the US Gov't doing tests on its own people, often without our knowledge.

In the early 1950's, in the middle of the Cold War and the fear of nuclear annihilation, the US Gov't sprayed elementary schools with nuclear radiation in the Midwest - in this particular case, Minneapolis elementary schools- to test the effects of these chemicals on school children. At the time, it was unknown how toxic they actually were.

My aunt is best friends with a woman who attended one of these schools. The percentages of cancer, birth defects, and miscarriages for adults who attended these schools as children is much much higher than the national average. My aunt's best friend, Diana, also had several miscarriages, never able to have children of her own.

Sen Paul Wellstone, during the 1990's, contacted many of these families, including Diana, and tried to bring some light to the sad and senseless actions of the US Govt.

I tried to search the internet for these stories but was unable to find them. (No not a conspiracy folks, just unable to find it.)

If anyone knows anything about this or can link an article, please let me know.

There are, of course, well documented cases of government labs purposely exposing patients to radiation to see the effects of nuclear bombs on human anatomies. Of course, these patients died of cancer much earlier than expected.

TrevorAyer said:

silkylee said:

WATCHOUT NOW!!!

If you don't go alone with their system.

You might be labeled the BIG T.

exactly, what makes me nervous is our big hero president obama did not repeal the patriot act like he promised, and apparently once accused they can hold you indefinately without representation or trial. fact is 90% of all people held as terrorists were not terrorists at all. we have a constitution that is the basis of our FREEDOM yet we as people allow our rights to disappear, like its normal. I think people are sleeping. That is to say, unable to shake off the programming enough to see this is happening and do something about it. Even speaking about it is frowned upon. freedom aint free they lock in a jail if you try to be.

He only said he wanted to change the Patriot Act. I really don't know if he or Congrees did, but I watched almost every debate he attended in 2008. I can look it up too, but really is no political will on either side of the aisle - aside from the ACLU - to repeal the entire act.

The act changed little about US Govt survailance. The NSA has been doing covert survailance of Americans since the 1990's, under Clinton's watch.

TrevorAyer said:

pald1 said:

My contrarian stance is merely an effort to contol you all. Didn't you know?

Sorry, when u name call everyone a conspiracy thoeorist as a way of shooting down and categorizing everyone who participates in a topical conversation as a nut job or "smart" but not quite smart as you I have to wonder how much of your mind is home grown and how much has been replaced by electric circuits and automated response mechanisms. While I agree that you have made an effort to control us all by repeating the "official" programming over and over, kinda like tv and newspapers do, calling everyone nut jobs etc .. and being generally condescending .. I did know thats what u were up to. In fact it wasn't even a "theory". Oh wait if forgot, let me speak your language instead. Bleep blop zork bzzz repeat.

Your continual references to robotic sounds/body parts etc makes me think your exercising a fetish of some kind.

marxisreal said:

pald1 said:

-Programming takes place in schools (you want people to learn the history of everything?)

That's a bit evasive as an answer imo. As if there are no interests to be defended in society and as if the ruling elite, their politicians, their ruling class historians, and so on, aren't doing a good job in selecting historical facts, explaining them as they see convenient, and leaving out the not so desirable elements in their historical narrative. Is this because of their flawed "human nature"? Hardly, it's because contradictory interests, between rulers and ruled, do exist and there is an ideological battle taking place in the - more and more unequal - class societies we live in.

-Be a slave (Obviously not good but also doesn't understand the psychological need from some who want to be told what to do - read Freud).

Is this a psychological defense for political submission? If it is, I don't think it's very progressive or illuminating. Even if such psychological tendencies exist, and are reinforced by the kind of society we live in, wouldn't it be more fruitful to try to empower people?

-Media outlets have few owners (certainly not one, though), and some are more powerful than others. But a bigger organization means bigger resources...otherwise, the only news we'd get would be local.

Come on! The media are controlled by big capitalist conglomorates (Murdoch comes to mind) who have a vested interest in not telling things as they are. Which doesn't mean I support any or every "conspiracy theory", a lot of them are indeed not based on verifiable facts or plausible arguments.

Your comment about the media industry seems naive at best, and apologetic at worst. There have been quite a few books published, also by journalists, about the nefarious effects of commercialization and the profit motive on the quality of news reporting.

-The attacking countries with innocent people line is too vague. I can't answer.

Too vague? Come on! Have you never heard of the mass of innocent victims in Iraq, Afghanistan,...? US government support for dictorships galore (let's take Mubarak's Egypt as a current example - without US financial backing it's very doubtful his regime would have survived for decades...). Or wait, is this all down to the imperfect human nature of the CIA and US government... You might be on to something! Or, have Egyptians read too much Freud for all those years? Just maybe...

-Fake terror threats. You have proof they're fake? Elites have to go through TSA screeners too!

-The food and water line has some merit but you lose the plot connecting it to keeping people sick.

So, in summary, if you just let your points speak for themselves you might have something. In many cases, these things are the way they are because we are an imperfect species, trying to survive modernity.

Unfortunately I think that's the classical defense of ruling elites trying to defend unequal and unjust forms of government and society. It's a very ideological line of reasoning. Putting down economic crisis, war, social disruption,... to "an imperfect species" is intellectually a bit easy, and not very much supported by a concrete analysis of the facts you say you cling and adhere to so much, in other comments...

Trying to survive. We're all different. Some of us are good, some bad. The world looks exactly as it does when it's run by such a species. You let yourself down when you try to connect all these points towards some overarching conspiracy to keep us down. We both know life isn't that clear-cut. C'mon, you seem smarter.

Sorry, I can't help you. You're in too deep.

They test here, they test there, they test everywhere.

Let's call it what it is.

POPULATION CONTROL!

By the way. Did anybody noticed the stage during the superbowl halftime show.

It was the shape of an eye.

You know, the all seeing

Uh oh! I hear agents.

Genesia said:

Those were not Presidents of the United States because, until we had a constitution, there was no United States.

George Washington is the first president of the United States.

Not entirely true. Look at the Declaration of Independence, from 1776. "United States of America" is written in huge letters, 11 years before the constitutution.

Those presidents were presidents of the continental congress, which was the first national government of the United States. So you're right that they were not part of the same government as George Washington, and the office of President was not treated the same.

Prince's point might have been silly, or just the tip of the iceberg, or nit-picking, or conspiracy-theory where there was no conspiracy, but I will say he got me to think about something that NO other rock star has ever made me think of!

Thankyou Prince.

..

[Edited 2/10/11 10:23am]

I don't know, but our government can't even balance the budget, I doubt they can orchestrate population control. I know Bill Clinton couldn't, but he could teach us a thing or two on expansion.

pald1 said:

marxisreal said:

Sorry, I can't help you. You're in too deep.

Nice deflection. Why don't you argue your point, I gave you some concrete examples. You make an appeal to facts and reason and when some facts are offered, you don't want to discuss them. Instead you play the dreary, bored teacher, dealing out good and bad points in the Prince.org classroom...

marxisreal said:

pald1 said:

Sorry, I can't help you. You're in too deep.

Nice deflection. Why don't you argue your point, I gave you some concrete examples. You make an appeal to facts and reason and when some facts are offered, you don't want to discuss them. Instead you play the dreary, bored teacher, dealing out good and bad points in the Prince.org classroom...

No. It's not that. I look at all your points and, with some light research, can easily answer them. Thing is, your mind isn't open to change, so why bother?

pald1 said:

marxisreal said:

Nice deflection. Why don't you argue your point, I gave you some concrete examples. You make an appeal to facts and reason and when some facts are offered, you don't want to discuss them. Instead you play the dreary, bored teacher, dealing out good and bad points in the Prince.org classroom...

No. It's not that. I look at all your points and, with some light research, can easily answer them. Thing is, your mind isn't open to change, so why bother?

Come on guys. This discussion went psycho :p