bellanoche said:

ThreadBare said:

Not at all. People aren't copying Prince's business model.

They're hearing him when "Raspberry Beret" plays in their local Harris Teeter and laughing at him for saying the Internet is dead.

That statement is without merit. Many artists have copied Prince's business model, and I didn't see any laughing at him when I saw him at a sold-out show in MSG.

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

ThreadBare said:

bellanoche said:

That statement is without merit. Many artists have copied Prince's business model, and I didn't see any laughing at him when I saw him at a sold-out show in MSG.

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

Then why are so many artists following in his footsteps to find alternate methods to get the music to their fans bypassing record labels. Prince was the first to go thru the internet and sell his product in large quantities. When Prince attached a copy of Musicology to the cost of the concert ticket he kept the CD in the top ten. The industry then rewrote the rules so that other artist couldn' follow suit and do the same. Prince always has been an innovator.

bellanoche said:

Honestman13, you made some really good points on this thread. I agree with much of what you said. Graycap23, while I have no problem with P's JW conversion. I do agree that it has in some ways restricted him artistically. I am not saying I want to see him running around like a 25 year-old at 52 like some of these Orgers do, but I do see some self-imposed limitations as a result of his transition.

However, going back to Honestman13, I could not agree more with your assessment that P had songs in his so-called glory days that I could take or leave. Actually, I was not that huge a fan of the Revolution-heavy songs of the 80s. It's all a matter of taste, though. I find many of the songs that he has released in the last 15 years as good as if not better than many of the ones that he released in the first 15 years of his career.

With regard to editing, one of the great things about P as an artist is that he does put so much out there. It gives us a more complete picture of him as an artist instead of periodic releases of songs that have been checked and cross-checked and cross-checked again by industry types who just want hits. So many phases of P's life have played out in his music, and his body of work is an excellent study in the creative expression of a genius. Why "edit" that? If you are solely concerned with hits and money then you might go that route, which is oddly funny because many of the people who accuse P of being money-hungry are the same ones crying that he needs an editor to help him craft more hits. Interesting.

I couldn't have said it better...

First of all, think of all the albums that wouldn't have seen the light of day if Prince or Warner Bros had someone subjectively editing his music. Whole albums like Around The World, Rainbow Children, One Nite Alone, The Truth, and Emancipation would've been in the vault, perhaps floating around in cyberspace, never finding a home on one cd. Or even worse, never heard.

Secondly, how do we know the albums we like the most wouldn't have been "edited" out? Four of the above mentioned albums are in my top ten. Many orgers don't like Diamonds and Pearls. I love it. I would cringe if that were left off the shelves. Most record industry types thought Around the World was too soon after the huge success of Purple Rain. I'm damn glad he didn't listen.That album sealed my bond with Prince's amazing sound and vision. Self indulgent? Too much too soon? Too psychedelic? Who cares. The album is amazing.

Purple Rain IMO could have been a double album. SOTT should have been triple as planned. Maybe Lovesexy should have included the Glam Slam remix, Escape, I Wish U Heaven extended, etc. I think the "extended" Lovesexy album is better than the version that was released. So what? I love them both. I have them both.

I think it's funny how many fans like the song 'Gold'. I can't stand it and press stop when it comes on. Do I want it edited out? Not for a second. To each their own. I don't have a monopoly on what is great about Prince. I love his screaming in songs like 'I Like It There' and "The Beautiful Ones'. My wife can't stand it. Oh well. His music, not mine. I feel lucky enough to be alive while he is making these brilliant songs and performing live like no other musician that has ever lived or will live.

All I'm saying...is count your blessings folks. He's here and we are too.

HonestMan13 said:

ThreadBare said:

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

Then why are so many artists following in his footsteps to find alternate methods to get the music to their fans bypassing record labels. Prince was the first to go thru the internet and sell his product in large quantities. When Prince attached a copy of Musicology to the cost of the concert ticket he kept the CD in the top ten. The industry then rewrote the rules so that other artist couldn' follow suit and do the same. Prince always has been an innovator.

Agreed. The Musicology ticket tie-in was great. I came across many people who loved that CD who would not have heard it had they not been given it at the concert.

Additionally, other artists have followed his business model throughout his career. At first, some laughed or thought he was crazy when he did certain things, but when all was said and done, they respected his choice and some followed.

Look at his fight for his masters. People called him crazy then. Now everyone and their mama is talking about owning their masters. People followed his music club model. People have followed the CD/publication tie-in as well as the single retailer distribution deal, not to mention the one-off distribution deals he did with the labels. I have, in fact, had conversations with people who have commented positively on Prince's business models.

Finally, there are plenty of legacy artists who cannot sell out MSG, especially not in the round. Let's give the man some credit for keeping his career alive.

Again, if someone doesn't dig what Prince is doing, that is cool, but completely discrediting him or his business model is ridiculous.

Dreamer2 said:

errant said:

He's right. Prince needs an editor. And a business manager.

He' has the org.... we edit, rate and know his music better than any record company.....so no need for them.....

and we vote with cash.....

Amen!

HonestMan13 said:

Whatever anyone says about Prince at this point is moot. Good or bad, criticisms or praise. He's been in the game for over 30 years and he's not going anywhere. Everyone can say what they feel he needs to be doing or what he should've done in the past but it makes no difference now. His spot in music history is etched in stone and no amount of bad press, criticisms, praise or accolades will change that fact. The industry should get over it already and so should the fans. Nobody is going to tell a headstrong 52 year old man what to do and have him listen. He didn't want to hear it when he was 17 years old. Why would he change now?

I know thats right!

XNY said:

I think it's funny how many fans like the song 'Gold'. I can't stand it and press stop when it comes on. Do I want it edited out? Not for a second. To each their own. I don't have a monopoly on what is great about Prince. I love his screaming in songs like 'I Like It There' and "The Beautiful Ones'. My wife can't stand it. Oh well. His music, not mine. I feel lucky enough to be alive while he is making these brilliant songs and performing live like no other musician that has ever lived or will live.

All I'm saying...is count your blessings folks. He's here and we are too.

I agreed with your whole post, but this just sang to me! I COULD NOT AGREE MORE! I hate how on this site people will totally trash songs because they don't like them. It is insulting to those of us who do like them. To each his own. I was not a big fan of "Gold" or that era in general. However, I would not want to erase that period or the music he released during it because some great songs were created during that time - some that are actually favorites of mine. That is why I do not think he needs an editor or censor other than himself. Let him do him and let us decide what we like.

Prince's music is like a buffet. That's what makes him so amazing and unique. You enter the Prince buffet line and some people will load their plates with Rock, some RnB, some Pop, some Jazz, some Funk; while others will balance their plates with a little of everything. Either way, there is something there for everyone.

Astasheiks said:

Dreamer2 said:

He' has the org.... we edit, rate and know his music better than any record company.....so no need for them.....

and we vote with cash.....

Amen!

PEPSI OR COCA COLA:

Could we maybe reach a middle ground here and say Costco gets the rights to release the Prince version with his own editing in that 24 can Pepsi box, and say we release the Atlantic version with super duper peeps from the lablel promoting it, allowing an editor and releasing it in the 24 can Coca Cola box. Different songs of each of the cd's course and lets see who wins with the most sales over the course of a year!!

Pepsi or Coca Cola. What the heck lets also include the Diet boxes also for us sugar free hotties!!

jpnyc said:

Prince might need an critic, but not a record label. I think Prince’s early 1990s albums would be a lot better if Warner hadn’t been pushing him to try and stay on top by venturing into hip-hop, which he was never especially good at. If Prince was on a major label today they’d be pestering him to give guest spots to Kanye West, Jay-Z, and Rhianna. And that would NOT work out.

what better proof of this statement thn Rave U(!)nto the joy Fantastic???

eelco said:

jpnyc said:

Prince might need an critic, but not a record label. I think Prince’s early 1990s albums would be a lot better if Warner hadn’t been pushing him to try and stay on top by venturing into hip-hop, which he was never especially good at. If Prince was on a major label today they’d be pestering him to give guest spots to Kanye West, Jay-Z, and Rhianna. And that would NOT work out.

what better proof of this statement thn Rave U(!)nto the joy Fantastic???

Hmmmm. Last time I checked Kanye, Jay Z, Rhianna, Dr. Dre, Snoop,E, and the list goes on have used guest spots or vica versa on numerous cuts. If your theory stands true then you just through out 50% of every pop and r&b cd release......Oh I forgot your theory only applies to RAVE and being that we shouldn't bunch that in with the rest of the best!!

LOVELYSKYE said:

Interesting exerpt from a Rolling Stone magazine Issue #1103 article I stumbled upon from Craig Klamman Co-Chair and CEO of Atlantic Records. He goes on to say:

And even the most independent of artists need professional guidance, he adds "Even Prince- talk about a guy who needs an editor. He's a genius, but if you go through the last albums that he's done on his own and maybe the albums when he was on Warner Bros, and you tell me, if you could only own five which five would you want to own?"

Most Prince fans have been saying this since forever. Its only obvious.

[Edited 2/5/11 14:50pm]

a 100 plus post for this

ThreadBare said:

I wouldn't raise the example of P's website, when so many other artists have responsive, interactive sites and have for many years. To call him an innovator ignores the fact that in far more recent history, he's regressed from that point of success. If anything, the last site's demise proves the OP's point about the need for real help.

----------

Please name all of the artist with these great sites and please list if they independent artist paying for all of their web activities without a record label backing them.

I really want to know what other artist have tried to pull off what P has. I mean can you list major artist who have left major lables and went out on their own.?

ThreadBare said:

bellanoche said:

That statement is without merit. Many artists have copied Prince's business model, and I didn't see any laughing at him when I saw him at a sold-out show in MSG.

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

That because a lots of artist are stupid. P has a legacy most artist today are not going to be around in 5 years.

laurarichardson said:

ThreadBare said:

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

That because a lots of artist are stupid. P has a legacy most artist today are not going to be around in 5 years.

Are you voting coca cola or pepsi??

Is this old? I've heard that comment before (almost the same wording).

Klamman and George Michael only said what lots of people here think of Prince´s output.

I wouldnt like to see him produced by someone else, but sometimes I dont understand some of his music output. Sometimes, it seems he does it only for the sake of doing it.

And I never understood why he kills every promotion of a new album. Even if it´s not meant to be a "hit", I think the world at least should KNOW it exists.

LOVELYSKYE said:

laurarichardson said:

That because a lots of artist are stupid. P has a legacy most artist today are not going to be around in 5 years.

Are you voting coca cola or pepsi??

Are you smoking crack or weed?

editor no, business mgr yes....but they need not b titled as such.....

a person of reason....yes

why

even when ur ideas sounds good 2 u,

u need some1 2 let u no-u r not....

4 ur benefit

why

2 avoid self destruction

this is why Europe is so marketable 4 him.....

europeans r pluralistic and very flexible .....................

sometimes us americans are not just a thought

laurarichardson said:

LOVELYSKYE said:

Are you voting coca cola or pepsi??

Are you smoking crack or weed?

Neither. The question should be are his handlers/advisors on it. Seems to be a pattern here of his business affairs just not being handled by correctly whether its Prince or his management/staff. You put together the music editing, superbowl event, limited distribution model, and the internet site. It all adds up...Prince needs to do major housecleaning just as he does when he replaces bandmembers and get the right peeps to handle his business...otherwise we can expect the same pattern repeating itself over.

Prince knows what needs to be done now but is he willing to take that courageous step...

LOVELYSKYE said:

laurarichardson said:

Are you smoking crack or weed?

Neither. The question should be are his handlers/advisors on it. Seems to be a pattern here of his business affairs just not being handled by correctly whether its Prince or his management/staff. You put together the music editing, superbowl event, limited distribution model, and the internet site. It all adds up...Prince needs to do major housecleaning just as he does when he replaces bandmembers and get the right peeps to handle his business...otherwise we can expect the same pattern repeating itself over.

Prince knows what needs to be done now but is he willing to take that courageous step...

I forgot to include:

NPMT- New Power Management Team

NPIT-New Power Internet Team

NPL-New Power Lablel

NPE- New Power Editor

I left out NPG as they are doing a fine job of backing him up.

Come on Prince take charge of your house and put it in order. Don't let me get Mavis all worked up and start belting out Melody Cool.

"I've seen a lot of heartache and pain. Survived them all baby. I'm Melody and I'm still cool"

Showing some love back to you Laura as we may disagree on some points but one thing we can agree on is we dig P.

laurarichardson said:

ThreadBare said:

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

That because a lots of artist are stupid. P has a legacy most artist today are not going to be around in 5 years.

But he's not the only artist with longevity. And some of those artists... Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews Band, Jonatha Brooke, to name but a few ... have really great websites and online track records with their fans.

No one's attacking Prince's artistry when they say he's pretty bad in his business execution. He needs help. That's fairly well-established, from comic books, vault recordings and websites to other promises. Oh well. Nobody's perfect.

ThreadBare said:

laurarichardson said:

That because a lots of artist are stupid. P has a legacy most artist today are not going to be around in 5 years.

But he's not the only artist with longevity. And some of those artists... Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews Band, Jonatha Brooke, to name but a few ... have really great websites and online track records with their fans.

No one's attacking Prince's artistry when they say he's pretty bad in his business execution. He needs help. That's fairly well-established, from comic books, vault recordings and websites to other promises. Oh well. Nobody's perfect.

Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews Band,

These guys are on major record labels and Radiohead was dropped by a major label perhaps because they did not sell enough and then they turned around and gave copies of their inpendent music away. I do not thing giving away your music on a website you have to pay for as a successful model.

In addtion, P is on record that he is not giving anything away so stop waiting for that to happen

Jonatha Brooke- who the hell is he. If you went down the street you could not find 20 people to tell you who this guy is. Please name a well known act that has left the music industry and gone independent and is succesful. I mean putting music on the charts which P has done and still selling out venues.

LOVELYSKYE said:

laurarichardson said:

Are you smoking crack or weed?

Neither. The question should be are his handlers/advisors on it. Seems to be a pattern here of his business affairs just not being handled by correctly whether its Prince or his management/staff. You put together the music editing, superbowl event, limited distribution model, and the internet site. It all adds up...Prince needs to do major housecleaning just as he does when he replaces bandmembers and get the right peeps to handle his business...otherwise we can expect the same pattern repeating itself over.

Prince knows what needs to be done now but is he willing to take that courageous step...

If he changed managment tommorow what makes you think he is not going to do exactly what he wants. The truth of the matter is he is going to get paid from the superbowl mess without having perfomed and the MSF concert was successful, and he got paid up front for 20TEN. I do not know why some of you think he needs a editor when he has been putting out about a CD a year for the bulk of his carreer and even said that these recent CDs are really for the die hard fans. May guess is he is selling enough to make a profit and that is exactly what he would be doing if he was with a major lable, only he would not be keeping the bulk of the money.

Radiohead releases their new album for free next saturday!

And you can buy a newspaper from them. They compiled the newspaper themselves.

And you get their cd for free with the newspaper.

Brilliant!

P is still inspiring for bands

HonestMan13 said:

ThreadBare said:

He's a legacy artist. He's always going to sell out concerts. Have you heard anyone saying they've been inspired by Prince's distribution or online models? No, didn't think so.

Then why are so many artists following in his footsteps to find alternate methods to get the music to their fans bypassing record labels. Prince was the first to go thru the internet and sell his product in large quantities. When Prince attached a copy of Musicology to the cost of the concert ticket he kept the CD in the top ten. The industry then rewrote the rules so that other artist couldn' follow suit and do the same. Prince always has been an innovator.

Prince did not create the idea of an indie label. Indie labels were running long before Prince was born.

Spinlight said:

HonestMan13 said:

Then why are so many artists following in his footsteps to find alternate methods to get the music to their fans bypassing record labels. Prince was the first to go thru the internet and sell his product in large quantities. When Prince attached a copy of Musicology to the cost of the concert ticket he kept the CD in the top ten. The industry then rewrote the rules so that other artist couldn' follow suit and do the same. Prince always has been an innovator.

Prince did not create the idea of an indie label. Indie labels were running long before Prince was born.

I never said he created the concept of an indie label. He was the first major artist to go outside the system and have good results with it. Prompting others to do the same.

HonestMan13 said:

Spinlight said:

Prince did not create the idea of an indie label. Indie labels were running long before Prince was born.

I never said he created the concept of an indie label. He was the first major artist to go outside the system and have good results with it. Prompting others to do the same.

I think the reason we have so many indie labels now is the same reason that we have so many micro breweries, the technology has made quality production easier to create.

HonestMan13 said:

Spinlight said:

Prince did not create the idea of an indie label. Indie labels were running long before Prince was born.

I never said he created the concept of an indie label. He was the first major artist to go outside the system and have good results with it. Prompting others to do the same.

I'm no genius or anything, and I don't know EVERYTHING about the music industry, but what Prince did was no different than what Rocafella Records, No Limit Records and Cash Money Records did.....before him. All he did was get distribution deals with MAJOR labels. He didn't "go outside the system" as far as some of you want to believe. He just used the system in a way that was different for a major Pop star.

As far as him having hits AFTER he went "indie" (lol)....I don't even have to look at the charts but I'm willing to bet that the 'hits" you speak of were from albums with some major label backing. I don't think Planet Earth or 20Ten had one freaking chart hit.

And as far as CD giveaways in magazines and newspapers....been done for years....AND if the state of the music industry was different Prince would be looked at like a has been for doing such a thing!