NouveauDance said:

LOVELYSKYE said:

OK. Klamman put your money where your mouth is and back up your statement.

With Prince's post-WB track record with record companies, you seriously expect that?

What he says is 100% truth and on point, and everyone knows it. It's OK to be a great artist, but without a canvas and a frame, you're just a brat sploshing shit tons of paint everywhere.

Prince is a one of a kind talent, and Atlantic Records is a one of a kind talent record company.

With all of the publicity and hype behind a new record deal. Prince is back on the charts and moves up to larger venues to sell out shows, and you know how much he loves that $$ from those shows.

When Prince had lots of talented record label folks, musicians, and management team around him helping support his vision he was at his most creative.

Maybe the chem trails are in alignment now!

Don't let spookyelectric bring u down!

Letitgo.

Prince has always done whatever the f**k he wants.

LOVELYSKYE said:

NouveauDance said:

With Prince's post-WB track record with record companies, you seriously expect that?

What he says is 100% truth and on point, and everyone knows it. It's OK to be a great artist, but without a canvas and a frame, you're just a brat sploshing shit tons of paint everywhere.

Prince is a one of a kind talent, and Atlantic Records is a one of a kind talent record company.

With all of the publicity and hype behind a new record deal. Prince is back on the charts and moves up to larger venues to sell out shows, and you know how much he loves that $$ from those shows.

When Prince had lots of talented record label folks, musicians, and management team around him helping support his vision he was at his most creative.

Maybe the chem trails are in alignment now!

Don't let spookyelectric bring u down!

LMFAO!

errant said:

WisdomNLove said:

not on prince's level whatsoever however you helped prove my point, meaning you can be successful without a label

the problem with Prince's current model for distribution is that, yes, it does get him a bunch of money up front from Target, or the Daily Mirror, or the Mail or whatever newspaper or niche distributor he can swindle into one of these deals. but it won't be long before they all wise up and realize they've got a mountain of unsold discs they have to move for $5 or less after Prince has stopped promoting the release 2 days after it hits the shelves.

and he also has to take into account whether he wants his music actually heard or if he's only interested in the big bucks up front. he's marginalizing his music and devaluing his own career by seeking out ever more obscure and convoluted means of getting his music to the public.

What ever gave you the INSANE idea that Prince would actually promote an album for 2 ENTIRE DAYS???? That's about the most crazy thing I've ever read. Maybe 2 minutes... He did promote Get on The Boat, though. He made sure that songs like Fury were never played again. God forbid someone would actually purchase 3121 a week after it was released.

SquirrelMeat said:

laurarichardson said:

The last I heard he was off to prison but you spin the story the way you want.

George bitched at his record company and never had a hit record in the U.S. again. P managed to move some CDs in the U.S after his break with WB and even when he was with WB he had filler cuts on his CDs which were sometimes overlong. I do not see how he is doing anything different with his music being independent. After all WB never wanted WDC to even be on PR and they hated Kiss and fucked up the marketing of Sign Of The Times because they did not want to push the RnB cuts.

Sometimes P was right and sometimes he was wrong in the end I just do not think that George Michael or this ass clown from Atlantic are doing anything better.

I see you are watching it from the "America is the world" point of view.

Regardless of of love/hate for GM, all his released material has sold millions, even in the US he has sold more than P.

But that doesn't matter, all I'm saying is that GM made a good point that P needs editting. A lot of artists agree, and so do fans.

I think most fans would agree that P is his own worst enemy when it comes to career choices.

To be honest, Georges last album has been better or just as good as P's last 5 albums!

LOVELYSKYE said:

When Prince had lots of talented record label folks, musicians, and management team around him helping support his vision he was at his most creative.

..... In 1985.

But what haaas he duuuuun fuurrrrr yooooooooo layyyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?!

LOVELYSKYE said:

Interesting exerpt from a Rolling Stone magazine Issue #1103 article I stumbled upon from Craig Klamman Co-Chair and CEO of Atlantic Records. He goes on to say:

And even the most independent of artists need professional guidance, he adds "Even Prince- talk about a guy who needs an editor. He's a genius, but if you go through the last albums that he's done on his own and maybe the albums when he was on Warner Bros, and you tell me, if you could only own five which five would you want to own?"

OK. Klamman put your money where your mouth is and back up your statement. After all their is a go between connection with Prince and Klamman and its Atlantic artist Janelle Monae.

Spread the word to Klamman and Atlantic COO Julie Greenwald!!!!!!

He's right!

HonestMan13 said:

Whatever anyone says about Prince at this point is moot. Good or bad, criticisms or praise. He's been in the game for over 30 years and he's not going anywhere. Everyone can say what they feel he needs to be doing or what he should've done in the past but it makes no difference now. His spot in music history is etched in stone and no amount of bad press, criticisms, praise or accolades will change that fact. The industry should get over it already and so should the fans. Nobody is going to tell a headstrong 52 year old man what to do and have him listen. He didn't want to hear it when he was 17 years old. Why would he change now?

A very smart assessment indeed.

WisdomNLove said:

errant said:

the problem with Prince's current model for distribution is that, yes, it does get him a bunch of money up front from Target, or the Daily Mirror, or the Mail or whatever newspaper or niche distributor he can swindle into one of these deals. but it won't be long before they all wise up and realize they've got a mountain of unsold discs they have to move for $5 or less after Prince has stopped promoting the release 2 days after it hits the shelves.

and he also has to take into account whether he wants his music actually heard or if he's only interested in the big bucks up front. he's marginalizing his music and devaluing his own career by seeking out ever more obscure and convoluted means of getting his music to the public.

cool

I second that coolio.

This story has allready been told. Reminds me of ? who as he got older was walking thru airports with only his guitar in hand with no touring band since he was ruled by the allmighty $$.

Oh how the King had many servants at hand who said 2 everything before in order to keep their golden goose happy.

LOVELYSKYE said:

Maybe the chem trails are in alignment now!

Errrr, maybe, if the pilots are really skilled - or is it like Ghostbusters, the streams can't cross?

SquirrelMeat said:

laurarichardson said:

Where is George Michael today ?

Sitting on his millions, never feeling the need to chuck out more material. And probably resting from near two years travelling the world with his critically acclaimed tour.

What has that got to do with he old views of Prince?

That's not what I heard.

HonestMan13 said:

Whatever anyone says about Prince at this point is moot. Good or bad, criticisms or praise. He's been in the game for over 30 years and he's not going anywhere. Everyone can say what they feel he needs to be doing or what he should've done in the past but it makes no difference now. His spot in music history is etched in stone and no amount of bad press, criticisms, praise or accolades will change that fact. The industry should get over it already and so should the fans. Nobody is going to tell a headstrong 52 year old man what to do and have him listen. He didn't want to hear it when he was 17 years old. Why would he change now?

andykeen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I see you are watching it from the "America is the world" point of view.

Regardless of of love/hate for GM, all his released material has sold millions, even in the US he has sold more than P.

But that doesn't matter, all I'm saying is that GM made a good point that P needs editting. A lot of artists agree, and so do fans.

I think most fans would agree that P is his own worst enemy when it comes to career choices.

To be honest, Georges last album has been better or just as good as P's last 5 albums!

If you like standard pop music perhaps...

andykeen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I see you are watching it from the "America is the world" point of view.

Regardless of of love/hate for GM, all his released material has sold millions, even in the US he has sold more than P.

But that doesn't matter, all I'm saying is that GM made a good point that P needs editting. A lot of artists agree, and so do fans.

I think most fans would agree that P is his own worst enemy when it comes to career choices.

To be honest, Georges last album has been better or just as good as P's last 5 albums!

To be honet, George's last album suffers from what a lot of Prince's albums since 1996 did. He needed an editor. I know he hadn't put out a real album in a long time, but there was a decent amount of filler on there for a guy that hadn't put together a collection of new songs in 8 years.

laurarichardson said:

SquirrelMeat said:

George Michael believed Prince's biggest problem was the inability to self edit hit output. He felt he was a genius, but he drowned out the greatness with mediocre filler, simply because he wanted to get everything out.

Where is George Michael today ?

Beating off in a court room bathroom.

HonestMan13 said:

Whatever anyone says about Prince at this point is moot. Good or bad, criticisms or praise. He's been in the game for over 30 years and he's not going anywhere. Everyone can say what they feel he needs to be doing or what he should've done in the past but it makes no difference now. His spot in music history is etched in stone and no amount of bad press, criticisms, praise or accolades will change that fact. The industry should get over it already and so should the fans. Nobody is going to tell a headstrong 52 year old man what to do and have him listen. He didn't want to hear it when he was 17 years old. Why would he change now?

Preach on brother!

By the way, who the hell is listening to record company CEO's anymore? Last time I checked the traditional music industry is running on fumes. That's like IBM telling Apple how to run it's business model.

XNY said:

HonestMan13 said:

Whatever anyone says about Prince at this point is moot. Good or bad, criticisms or praise. He's been in the game for over 30 years and he's not going anywhere. Everyone can say what they feel he needs to be doing or what he should've done in the past but it makes no difference now. His spot in music history is etched in stone and no amount of bad press, criticisms, praise or accolades will change that fact. The industry should get over it already and so should the fans. Nobody is going to tell a headstrong 52 year old man what to do and have him listen. He didn't want to hear it when he was 17 years old. Why would he change now?

Preach on brother!

By the way, who the hell is listening to record company CEO's anymore? Last time I checked the traditional music industry is running on fumes. That's like IBM telling Apple how to run it's business model.

These are two good points of view.

XNY said:

HonestMan13 said:

Whatever anyone says about Prince at this point is moot. Good or bad, criticisms or praise. He's been in the game for over 30 years and he's not going anywhere. Everyone can say what they feel he needs to be doing or what he should've done in the past but it makes no difference now. His spot in music history is etched in stone and no amount of bad press, criticisms, praise or accolades will change that fact. The industry should get over it already and so should the fans. Nobody is going to tell a headstrong 52 year old man what to do and have him listen. He didn't want to hear it when he was 17 years old. Why would he change now?

Preach on brother!

By the way, who the hell is listening to record company CEO's anymore? Last time I checked the traditional music industry is running on fumes. That's like IBM telling Apple how to run it's business model.

that may well be, but that doesn't negate what Craig Klamman said. any person that's listened to a Prince album in the last 15 (or more) years would have a hard time disagreeing with what he said about Prince needing an editor.

errant said:

XNY said:

Preach on brother!

By the way, who the hell is listening to record company CEO's anymore? Last time I checked the traditional music industry is running on fumes. That's like IBM telling Apple how to run it's business model.

that may well be, but that doesn't negate what Craig Klamman said. any person that's listened to a Prince album in the last 15 (or more) years would have a hard time disagreeing with what he said about Prince needing an editor.

Everyone is going on about Prince like he's a newbie with a promising future but who's out of control. He's had his promising future already. Any record executive would sign him in a minute because it's like getting him to say he was wrong for leaving the industry model. The fans want validation from the mainstream for their hero. Prince has moved past the point of needing either of these things. Prince is in that rare place in his career that he can do whatever he wants and still be respected. Whatever the opinion is about his music output of late or his business methods he's still here and selling out arenas. He must be doing something right.

HonestMan13 said:

errant said:

that may well be, but that doesn't negate what Craig Klamman said. any person that's listened to a Prince album in the last 15 (or more) years would have a hard time disagreeing with what he said about Prince needing an editor.

Everyone is going on about Prince like he's a newbie with a promising future but who's out of control. He's had his promising future already. Any record executive would sign him in a minute because it's like getting him to say he was wrong for leaving the industry model. The fans want validation from the mainstream for their hero. Prince has moved past the point of needing either of these things. Prince is in that rare place in his career that he can do whatever he wants and still be respected. Whatever the opinion is about his music output of late or his business methods he's still here and selling out arenas. He must be doing something right.

that's all completely irrelevant to the comments the guy is making. Prince needs an editor. however, it is interesting to note that the quality control went straight out the window when he was no longer working with one.

errant said:

HonestMan13 said:

Everyone is going on about Prince like he's a newbie with a promising future but who's out of control. He's had his promising future already. Any record executive would sign him in a minute because it's like getting him to say he was wrong for leaving the industry model. The fans want validation from the mainstream for their hero. Prince has moved past the point of needing either of these things. Prince is in that rare place in his career that he can do whatever he wants and still be respected. Whatever the opinion is about his music output of late or his business methods he's still here and selling out arenas. He must be doing something right.

that's all completely irrelevant to the comments the guy is making. Prince needs an editor. however, it is interesting to note that the quality control went straight out the window when he was no longer working with one.

That's a matter of opinion. when he was signed to Warner Brothers he had tracks that I could take or leave and whole albums as well. The same can be said for the the material after he left the industry.

Prince ONLY needs 1 thing..........2 be free of the JW dogma in his art.

Honestman13, you made some really good points on this thread. I agree with much of what you said. Graycap23, while I have no problem with P's JW conversion. I do agree that it has in some ways restricted him artistically. I am not saying I want to see him running around like a 25 year-old at 52 like some of these Orgers do, but I do see some self-imposed limitations as a result of his transition.

However, going back to Honestman13, I could not agree more with your assessment that P had songs in his so-called glory days that I could take or leave. Actually, I was not that huge a fan of the Revolution-heavy songs of the 80s. It's all a matter of taste, though. I find many of the songs that he has released in the last 15 years as good as if not better than many of the ones that he released in the first 15 years of his career.

With regard to editing, one of the great things about P as an artist is that he does put so much out there. It gives us a more complete picture of him as an artist instead of periodic releases of songs that have been checked and cross-checked and cross-checked again by industry types who just want hits. So many phases of P's life have played out in his music, and his body of work is an excellent study in the creative expression of a genius. Why "edit" that? If you are solely concerned with hits and money then you might go that route, which is oddly funny because many of the people who accuse P of being money-hungry are the same ones crying that he needs an editor to help him craft more hits. Interesting.

errant said:

HonestMan13 said:

Everyone is going on about Prince like he's a newbie with a promising future but who's out of control. He's had his promising future already. Any record executive would sign him in a minute because it's like getting him to say he was wrong for leaving the industry model. The fans want validation from the mainstream for their hero. Prince has moved past the point of needing either of these things. Prince is in that rare place in his career that he can do whatever he wants and still be respected. Whatever the opinion is about his music output of late or his business methods he's still here and selling out arenas. He must be doing something right.

that's all completely irrelevant to the comments the guy is making. Prince needs an editor. however, it is interesting to note that the quality control went straight out the window when he was no longer working with one.

Ah..It all came to me in a dream over some herb tea. Their before me appeared Dusty Springfield and she was singin every track off the Memphis Sessions. When she was finished she said it ain't over yet...........it's just around the corner....... NEW YORK SESSIONS

bellanoche said:

Honestman13, you made some really good points on this thread. I agree with much of what you said. Graycap23, while I have no problem with P's JW conversion. I do agree that it has in some ways restricted him artistically. I am not saying I want to see him running around like a 25 year-old at 52 like some of these Orgers do, but I do see some self-imposed limitations as a result of his transition.

However, going back to Honestman13, I could not agree more with your assessment that P had songs in his so-called glory days that I could take or leave. Actually, I was not that huge a fan of the Revolution-heavy songs of the 80s. It's all a matter of taste, though. I find many of the songs that he has released in the last 15 years as good as if not better than many of the ones that he released in the first 15 years of his career.

With regard to editing, one of the great things about P as an artist is that he does put so much out there. It gives us a more complete picture of him as an artist instead of periodic releases of songs that have been checked and cross-checked and cross-checked again by industry types who just want hits. So many phases of P's life have played out in his music, and his body of work is an excellent study in the creative expression of a genius. Why "edit" that? If you are solely concerned with hits and money then you might go that route, which is oddly funny because many of the people who accuse P of being money-hungry are the same ones crying that he needs an editor to help him craft more hits. Interesting.

Often times, people mean "critical hit" as opposed to a high charting song.

Craig Klamman needs a ticket to MSG.

[Edited 2/2/11 11:31am]

HonestMan13 said:

Craig Klamman needs a ticket to MSG.

[Edited 2/2/11 11:31am]

No he doesn't. With him saying the stuff he said, he won't have a full appreciation of it and he'll still say the same shit.

[Edited 2/2/11 12:15pm]

HonestMan13 said:

Craig Klamman needs a ticket to MSG.

[Edited 2/2/11 11:31am]

not if he's seen any other Prince show in the last 4 years.

HonestMan13 said:

Craig Klamman needs a ticket to MSG.

[Edited 2/2/11 11:31am]

The only passes he needs is for his peeps to have all access passes to Paisley Park!! And yes with Prince swinging the doors open to the PARK!!