I can listen to the released version of Joy in Repetition and the unreleased one (identical recording, but has a lonely slow intro, and it also seems to be at a slightly different speed - faster- and therefore a different key)

So the unreleased one has more of an AM radio, muddy, midrange highly compressed quality.... and I feel like it seems more cohesive and solid... and just like you're hearing some kind of ancient spell performed on some voodoo drenched stage at 3am. Everything is jelled together into a harmonious voice.

The released one has that typical spicy mix style Prince likes where things are very seperate and stand out.There's much more space and breathing room for all the noises. It has more dimension. But it seems more fragile.

I dunno. Maybe I should remaster all his new albums to sound like bootlegs and see if they seem mysteriously strong!

True, true...I love the unreleased version of We Can Funk, particularly the one that is preceded by Can´t Stop This Feeling I Got and Girl Of My Dreams.

The bass on my muddy, hissy sounding bootleg is much better and deeper than it could ever be on a legit release. Same goes for certain other songs from the mid 80s, whether studio material or rehearsal versions.

I even know people who prefer the bootleg version of Right Back Here In My Arms with DJ Brother Jules talking over it towards the end. Even though it´s simply the album version recorded from radio, it still sounded a bit thicker than the CD....at least on my stereo in the mid 90s.

KoolEaze said:

True, true...I love the unreleased version of We Can Funk, particularly the one that is preceded by Can´t Stop This Feeling I Got and Girl Of My Dreams.

The bass on my muddy, hissy sounding bootleg is much better and deeper than it could ever be on a legit release. Same goes for certain other songs from the mid 80s, whether studio material or rehearsal versions.

I even know people who prefer the bootleg version of Right Back Here In My Arms with DJ Brother Jules talking over it towards the end. Even though it´s simply the album version recorded from radio, it still sounded a bit thicker than the CD....at least on my stereo in the mid 90s.

Well with We Can Funk '86, there have been newer more clear bootleg versions that have surfaced and the clearest seems to have a slightly different mix (Prince checking the lead vocal mix) that is inferior to the old poor quality bootleg even though the sound has tons more fidelity. But more recently a more clear version of that originally heard mix has surfaced, and it's pretty damn good.

The George Clinton version is a big mess! But I like the ending, and I like the bootleg version of that sans any Clinton and all Prince.

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING EVER IN THIS THREAD.

I pretty much go for the bootleg versions before any others.

ufoclub said:

I can listen to the released version of Joy in Repetition and the unreleased one (identical recording, but has a lonely slow intro, and it also seems to be at a slightly different speed - faster- and therefore a different key)

So the unreleased one has more of an AM radio, muddy, midrange highly compressed quality.... and I feel like it seems more cohesive and solid... and just like you're hearing some kind of ancient spell performed on some voodoo drenched stage at 3am. Everything is jelled together into a harmonious voice.

The released one has that typical spicy mix style Prince likes where things are very seperate and stand out.There's much more space and breathing room for all the noises. It has more dimension. But it seems more fragile.

I dunno. Maybe I should remaster all his new albums to sound like bootlegs and see if they seem mysteriously strong!

DAMN!!!

DAAAMNNN!!!

thats so weird..i just made a cd to play in the car and was thinking THE very same thing about all the songs you mentioned

we can funk,joy in repetition,all my dreams(mind i do like all my dreams in crystal clear)

but yeah there is definatly something about bootleg quality

i think mebbes alot of it harks back to i was only 15 when i first heard Joy in repetition on...........................yeah you guessed it a cassete version of...

THE CHOCOLATE BOX!

A tiny piece of em dies when i heard MOVIE STAR on Crystal Ball with JOTY on it

JOTY????

WTF??

and he deffo should have kept

zzzzzzzzzzzzz oh wow

ufoclub said:

I can listen to the released version of Joy in Repetition and the unreleased one (identical recording, but has a lonely slow intro, and it also seems to be at a slightly different speed - faster- and therefore a different key)

Thy aren't actually identical - the released version has been edited in places.

ufoclub said:

I can listen to the released version of Joy in Repetition and the unreleased one (identical recording, but has a lonely slow intro, and it also seems to be at a slightly different speed - faster- and therefore a different key)

So the unreleased one has more of an AM radio, muddy, midrange highly compressed quality.... and I feel like it seems more cohesive and solid... and just like you're hearing some kind of ancient spell performed on some voodoo drenched stage at 3am. Everything is jelled together into a harmonious voice.

The released one has that typical spicy mix style Prince likes where things are very seperate and stand out.There's much more space and breathing room for all the noises. It has more dimension. But it seems more fragile.

I dunno. Maybe I should remaster all his new albums to sound like bootlegs and see if they seem mysteriously strong!

PLEASE don't give him ideas like that: he did, after all, release bootleg quality videos on his past websites (not to mention the 2001 rerelease of Horny Pony)

ufoclub said:

The released one has that typical spicy mix style Prince likes where things are very seperate and stand out.There's much more space and breathing room for all the noises. It has more dimension. But it seems more fragile.

... what 'he' said [img:$uid]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/113.gif[/img:$uid]

databank said:

ufoclub said:

I can listen to the released version of Joy in Repetition and the unreleased one (identical recording, but has a lonely slow intro, and it also seems to be at a slightly different speed - faster- and therefore a different key)

So the unreleased one has more of an AM radio, muddy, midrange highly compressed quality.... and I feel like it seems more cohesive and solid... and just like you're hearing some kind of ancient spell performed on some voodoo drenched stage at 3am. Everything is jelled together into a harmonious voice.

The released one has that typical spicy mix style Prince likes where things are very seperate and stand out.There's much more space and breathing room for all the noises. It has more dimension. But it seems more fragile.

I dunno. Maybe I should remaster all his new albums to sound like bootlegs and see if they seem mysteriously strong!

PLEASE don't give him ideas like that: he did, after all, release bootleg quality videos on his past websites (not to mention the 2001 rerelease of Horny Pony)

He did do that with that horrible official Beautiful Experience VHS tape that was a 2nd or 3rd generation copy. Was he laughing at us? I have nooticed that the official release of Black Album is very midrange heavy like most bootlegs are. There was a CD bootleg of the Black Album before the '94 release that had more finesse to it's EQ and more breathing room. Maybe he mixed the Black Album to sound stronger by pumping midrange? Or was it a mistake?

for me the bootleg quality feels like your in that house studio or whatever studio when the music is being made. It feels like your looking into something private.

I get that feeling when I'm listening to the Prince & the Revolution studio rehearsing of Screams of Passion

OldFriends4Sale said:

for me the bootleg quality feels like your in that house studio or whatever studio when the music is being made. It feels like your looking into something private.

I get that feeling when I'm listening to the Prince & the Revolution studio rehearsing of Screams of Passion

beautiful

I always get that feeling when I listen to any bootleg/unreleased song of 1985/86...

ufoclub said:

databank said:

PLEASE don't give him ideas like that: he did, after all, release bootleg quality videos on his past websites (not to mention the 2001 rerelease of Horny Pony)

He did do that with that horrible official Beautiful Experience VHS tape that was a 2nd or 3rd generation copy. Was he laughing at us? I have nooticed that the official release of Black Album is very midrange heavy like most bootlegs are. There was a CD bootleg of the Black Album before the '94 release that had more finesse to it's EQ and more breathing room. Maybe he mixed the Black Album to sound stronger by pumping midrange? Or was it a mistake?

Huh? The beautiful Experience never was released, only broadcast, so idk what u're talking about.

He did it with some videos on NPGMC (TV broadcasts mostly, so he probably didn't have anything but old VHS recordings so this can be understood) and on Lotuscam.com (the sound was always great, but Creep and 7/Come Together -and possibly others, i forgot- had a TERRIBLE image quality).

databank said:

ufoclub said:

He did do that with that horrible official Beautiful Experience VHS tape that was a 2nd or 3rd generation copy. Was he laughing at us? I have nooticed that the official release of Black Album is very midrange heavy like most bootlegs are. There was a CD bootleg of the Black Album before the '94 release that had more finesse to it's EQ and more breathing room. Maybe he mixed the Black Album to sound stronger by pumping midrange? Or was it a mistake?

Huh? The beautiful Experience never was released, only broadcast, so idk what u're talking about.

He did it with some videos on NPGMC (TV broadcasts mostly, so he probably didn't have anything but old VHS recordings so this can be understood) and on Lotuscam.com (the sound was always great, but Creep and 7/Come Together -and possibly others, i forgot- had a TERRIBLE image quality).

They sold some VHS tapes of the Beautiful Experience and the Undertaker on NPGMC in the early days, among other things. Some recordings still had the Japanese (?) or Korean (?) subtitles.

I still wonder why they did that because as far as I know, Prince records almost all of his shows, so why sell some bootleg VHS TV recording of dubious quality?

Does anyone here know whether it was because of legal reasons? I was surprised back then that the TV station didn´t sue him for selling second or third generation copies of their broadcast.

Those were strange days in the history of the NPGMC´s business strategy.

JoeTyler said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

for me the bootleg quality feels like your in that house studio or whatever studio when the music is being made. It feels like your looking into something private.

I get that feeling when I'm listening to the Prince & the Revolution studio rehearsing of Screams of Passion

beautiful

I always get that feeling when I listen to any bootleg/unreleased song of 1985/86...

Right, like you in that time period and moment because a song can be record in 1982 but released in 1987, so your not getting that affect.

Bu a lot of those 1985/86 songs do have that feel and you know for the most part there are other singers/musicians and maybe even Susan Rogers or Coke in their

databank said:

ufoclub said:

He did do that with that horrible official Beautiful Experience VHS tape that was a 2nd or 3rd generation copy. Was he laughing at us? I have nooticed that the official release of Black Album is very midrange heavy like most bootlegs are. There was a CD bootleg of the Black Album before the '94 release that had more finesse to it's EQ and more breathing room. Maybe he mixed the Black Album to sound stronger by pumping midrange? Or was it a mistake?

Huh? The beautiful Experience never was released, only broadcast, so idk what u're talking about.

He did it with some videos on NPGMC (TV broadcasts mostly, so he probably didn't have anything but old VHS recordings so this can be understood) and on Lotuscam.com (the sound was always great, but Creep and 7/Come Together -and possibly others, i forgot- had a TERRIBLE image quality).

[img:$uid]http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx218/MMikeyBee/Prince%20and%20related/P%20mag%20and%20boot%20covers%20and%20ads/o_u2aP2BNOiCFAYaC.jpg[/img:$uid]

Yeah, The Beautiful Strange video was released by NPG on 24th August 1999. I think this is what ufoclub means.

[Edited 1/12/11 5:51am]

[Edited 1/12/11 5:53am]

[Edited 1/12/11 5:57am]

TheDigitalGardener said:

databank said:

Huh? The beautiful Experience never was released, only broadcast, so idk what u're talking about.

He did it with some videos on NPGMC (TV broadcasts mostly, so he probably didn't have anything but old VHS recordings so this can be understood) and on Lotuscam.com (the sound was always great, but Creep and 7/Come Together -and possibly others, i forgot- had a TERRIBLE image quality).

[img:$uid]http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx218/MMikeyBee/Prince%20and%20related/P%20mag%20and%20boot%20covers%20and%20ads/o_u2aP2BNOiCFAYaC.jpg[/img:$uid]

Yeah, The Beautiful Strange video was released by NPG on 24th August 1999. I think this is what ufoclub means.

[Edited 1/12/11 5:51am]

[Edited 1/12/11 5:53am]

[Edited 1/12/11 5:57am]

NO! I mean the Beautiful Experience tv special with Days of Wild & Nona Gaye & Pheremone. It was officially sold on VHS by the music club, and when you got it, it was a crap 2nd to 3rd generation copy. I have it, somewhere... I think.

^^ Oh, i never knew that, it don't sound to good.

[Edited 1/12/11 8:40am]

ufoclub said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

[img:$uid]http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx218/MMikeyBee/Prince%20and%20related/P%20mag%20and%20boot%20covers%20and%20ads/o_u2aP2BNOiCFAYaC.jpg[/img:$uid]

Yeah, The Beautiful Strange video was released by NPG on 24th August 1999. I think this is what ufoclub means.

[Edited 1/12/11 5:51am]

[Edited 1/12/11 5:53am]

[Edited 1/12/11 5:57am]

NO! I mean the Beautiful Experience tv special with Days of Wild & Nona Gaye & Pheremone. It was officially sold on VHS by the music club, and when you got it, it was a crap 2nd to 3rd generation copy. I have it, somewhere... I think.

R u SURE? Can u scan it? I never heqrd of this and i used to have their catalogues though i may have missed one. This is a MAJOR revelation u're doing here, we need more info...

these 2 videos were released :

Very hard to get !!

KoolEaze said:

They sold some VHS tapes of the Beautiful Experience and the Undertaker on NPGMC in the early days, among other things. Some recordings still had the Japanese (?) or Korean (?) subtitles.

This Undertaker video was also released, I am still looking for it

xenophobia2002 said:

these 2 videos were released :

PRINCE		NPGMC VIDEOS					2001
Prince	Video				USA		NPGMC	The Sacrifice Of Victor (43:56)
Prince	Video				USA		NPGMC	The Beautiful Experience (1:05:15)

Very hard to get !!

yep... I'll take a picture of my tape if I find it, but I was so angry when I got that VHS, that i wrote back to NPGMC complaining. I think I got an apologetic email back, saying that was their only source at the time! Everyone on alt.music.prince was complaining too! And the old version of the org?

[Edited 1/13/11 6:22am]

ufoclub said:

xenophobia2002 said:

these 2 videos were released :

PRINCE		NPGMC VIDEOS					2001
Prince	Video				USA		NPGMC	The Sacrifice Of Victor (43:56)
Prince	Video				USA		NPGMC	The Beautiful Experience (1:05:15)

Very hard to get !!

yep... I'll take a picture of my tape if I find it, but I was so angry when I got that VHS, that i wrote back to NPGMC complaining. I think I got an apologetic email back, saying that was their only source at the time! Everyone on alt.music.prince was complaining too! And the old version of the org?

[Edited 1/13/11 6:22am]

Yeah it was a travesty. I didn´t order it back then because my own copy recorded from pay-TV channel Premiere was much better than what I heard from those who had ordered the VHS tape from NPGMC. I transferred my first generation TV recording to DVD and didn´t feel the urge to order some crappy VHS tape from them.

Are the subtitles Japanese or Korean?

KoolEaze said:

ufoclub said:

yep... I'll take a picture of my tape if I find it, but I was so angry when I got that VHS, that i wrote back to NPGMC complaining. I think I got an apologetic email back, saying that was their only source at the time! Everyone on alt.music.prince was complaining too! And the old version of the org?

[Edited 1/13/11 6:22am]

Yeah it was a travesty. I didn´t order it back then because my own copy recorded from pay-TV channel Premiere was much better than what I heard from those who had ordered the VHS tape from NPGMC. I transferred my first generation TV recording to DVD and didn´t feel the urge to order some crappy VHS tape from them.

Are the subtitles Japanese or Korean?

Good for you. What an utterly shit thing to have anyone pay for. I put my tv copy to dvd too, as i have done with all available vhs only releases, quality is not perfect but bloody good compared to the way that these are being described.

Ok, so 3 questions:

1) U're saying that these videos were released in 2001, at the beginning of NPGMC? Am i correct? If not then when?

2) Did they have cover art and stuff? If so what did they look like (were TU and TSOV the same than the WB releases? and what did TBE look like?)

As 4 the quality and their claim not to have any other copy, it's SOOOOOOOOO weird

databank said:

Ok, so 3 questions:

1) U're saying that these videos were released in 2001, at the beginning of NPGMC? Am i correct? If not then when?

2) Did they have cover art and stuff? If so what did they look like (were TU and TSOV the same than the WB releases? and what did TBE look like?)

As 4 the quality and their claim not to have any other copy, it's SOOOOOOOOO weird

This is what The vault has to say about the original Undertaker video.

original release date..Dec 6th 1993.

This is the original version of The Undertaker film, which was slightly revised for the official '95 release. The video was a limited edition of 1000 copies and sold for $50 each. the original version focuses on the "live" performance, ommiting the footage of Vanessa Marcil. It contains the full version of Poor Goo (a portion of which was edited out of the '95 version of the film) and a full live version of Dolphin (instead of overdubbing the ending with the studio recording of the song, as was done on the '95 version of the film).

No company is listed i.e WB.

The release date on this was 1993 and limited to 1000 copies, so maybe copies were made and sold in 2001?

databank said:

Ok, so 3 questions:

1) U're saying that these videos were released in 2001, at the beginning of NPGMC? Am i correct? If not then when?

2) Did they have cover art and stuff? If so what did they look like (were TU and TSOV the same than the WB releases? and what did TBE look like?)

As 4 the quality and their claim not to have any other copy, it's SOOOOOOOOO weird

If I remember correctly, it looked like a bootleg video, just the titloe in black font on a white label, no packaging, no art. I don't remember The Undertaker one. Let me see now.

here are the two tapes I bought from the NPG music club:

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ufoclub/Screenshot2011-01-13at102212PM.png[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ufoclub/Screenshot2011-01-13at41032PM.png[/img:$uid]

TheDigitalGardener said:

databank said:

Ok, so 3 questions:

1) U're saying that these videos were released in 2001, at the beginning of NPGMC? Am i correct? If not then when?

2) Did they have cover art and stuff? If so what did they look like (were TU and TSOV the same than the WB releases? and what did TBE look like?)

As 4 the quality and their claim not to have any other copy, it's SOOOOOOOOO weird

This is what The vault has to say about the original Undertaker video.

original release date..Dec 6th 1993.

This is the original version of The Undertaker film, which was slightly revised for the official '95 release. The video was a limited edition of 1000 copies and sold for $50 each. the original version focuses on the "live" performance, ommiting the footage of Vanessa Marcil. It contains the full version of Poor Goo (a portion of which was edited out of the '95 version of the film) and a full live version of Dolphin (instead of overdubbing the ending with the studio recording of the song, as was done on the '95 version of the film).

No company is listed i.e WB.

The release date on this was 1993 and limited to 1000 copies, so maybe copies were made and sold in 2001?

OH MY GOD, and no one told me this ???!!!

Ok, i need to update my discography accordingly, which i won't be able to do before some time. I take it that this version of the video is exactly the same one that the original recording that was bootlegged (the Guitar Magazine canceled CD)? I'm asking this in order to use the accurate length on the discography.