I assume Prince probably sometimes DOES and sometimes DOES NOT record with a click track. But in general, do you think he records to a click? Most of his poppier songs seem to have perfect timing, which would make me assume he uses a click. But then again, except for when he changes tempo on purpose, I don't think I've ever heard his timing fluxuate.

no he doesn't. he usually lays the drums down first, and when playing live drums he has all the fills etc in place just like on the record, he doesn't lay down a temp track first, no click. then he does the bass next usually, then keys or guitar and usually all 1 take per instrument, then when the instrument tracks are done he sends the engineer away, records his vocals in front of the consule, and when done he calls back the engineer to mix the track and prince leaves and let's them get on with it

that's what femi told me at paisley when i asked the same question

Thank U. I would LOVE 2 see more specific musical/technical discussions here.

The phenomenal thing about Prince's recordings through the years, is that he doesn't even sequence his keyboard/synth stuff. His timing is immaculate.

I sequence, but I don't quantize, as I take advantage of my timing and rhythm.

He can do straight-up cold, techno-type synth lines on the fly.

When U think he's arpeggiating a synth part, he is usually playing it.

Matt Fink used 2 talk about this.

~G

unique said:

no he doesn't. he usually lays the drums down first, and when playing live drums he has all the fills etc in place just like on the record, he doesn't lay down a temp track first, no click. then he does the bass next usually, then keys or guitar and usually all 1 take per instrument, then when the instrument tracks are done he sends the engineer away, records his vocals in front of the consule, and when done he calls back the engineer to mix the track and prince leaves and let's them get on with it

that's what femi told me at paisley when i asked the same question

that would be true of his live drum stuff. but theres tons of stuff that has drum machines which would give you the perfect timing the original post mentioned. especially on the older poppier stuff. even a rockin song like lets go crazy has that drum machine part you hear popping up every measure. thats virtually the same as recording to a click.

savagedreams said:

unique said:

no he doesn't. he usually lays the drums down first, and when playing live drums he has all the fills etc in place just like on the record, he doesn't lay down a temp track first, no click. then he does the bass next usually, then keys or guitar and usually all 1 take per instrument, then when the instrument tracks are done he sends the engineer away, records his vocals in front of the consule, and when done he calls back the engineer to mix the track and prince leaves and let's them get on with it

that's what femi told me at paisley when i asked the same question

that would be true of his live drum stuff. but theres tons of stuff that has drum machines which would give you the perfect timing the original post mentioned. especially on the older poppier stuff. even a rockin song like lets go crazy has that drum machine part you hear popping up every measure. thats virtually the same as recording to a click.

it's not the same thing is it?

a click track is temporary, and not heard on the finished release or even demos usually. it's intended to be temporary to help keep the music in time when it lacks a drum beat. with a drum beat in place such as from a drum machine there is no need for a click track

the point is pretty simple. he doesn't use a click track, end of. as you point out, there is no need for one with a drum machine, but the main thing is he doesn't use one for live drums, where a click track may sometimes be required or desired

the questions been answered, no need to digress any further

of course he is using click track. Even with a drum machine, if you know anything about sequencing, either he has to have a click track in his ear, or a visual blink track every 1, 2, 3, 4... his programmed beats would never sound as perfectly timed if he didn't. I'm talking about the robotic sequencing. When it comes to his synths and "live" instruments, I believe he is just using the beat as a click track. The only difference between a beat and a click track is that you usually use the beat in the music afterwards. But there are many that uses beats as click track, then erases it, and makes a new one for the finished product.

njin said:

of course he is using click track. Even with a drum machine, if you know anything about sequencing, either he has to have a click track in his ear, or a visual blink track every 1, 2, 3, 4... his programmed beats would never sound as perfectly timed if he didn't. I'm talking about the robotic sequencing. When it comes to his synths and "live" instruments, I believe he is just using the beat as a click track. The only difference between a beat and a click track is that you usually use the beat in the music afterwards. But there are many that uses beats as click track, then erases it, and makes a new one for the finished product.

well prince doesn't do that. he doesn't normally record anything and erase it, and i specifically asked the question whilst in studio b at paisley with femi jiya and he told me he never uses a click track

so unless you have some undisputable proof that he is lying, and there is no reason for him to do that, then that's what i'm going to accept as true

unique said:

savagedreams said:

that would be true of his live drum stuff. but theres tons of stuff that has drum machines which would give you the perfect timing the original post mentioned. especially on the older poppier stuff. even a rockin song like lets go crazy has that drum machine part you hear popping up every measure. thats virtually the same as recording to a click.

it's not the same thing is it?

a click track is temporary, and not heard on the finished release or even demos usually. it's intended to be temporary to help keep the music in time when it lacks a drum beat. with a drum beat in place such as from a drum machine there is no need for a click track

the point is pretty simple. he doesn't use a click track, end of. as you point out, there is no need for one with a drum machine, but the main thing is he doesn't use one for live drums, where a click track may sometimes be required or desired

the questions been answered, no need to digress any further

Well, actually, in my frame of reference a drum machine track would essentially be the same thing as a click. It's an electronic frame of reference to keep his other instruments in perfect timing.

Take a song like "Morning Papers". I would assume that's a real live drum kit used in the song. But since the timing is impeccable, I would also assume that he used a click track for reference.

sorry, didnt know you were the be all end all for information here. the original question may have been about a click track (which yes you had a answer for) but it also pertained to princes timing, which i added additional information to. sorry if i digressed even more

[Edited 12/25/10 17:52pm]

berniejobs said:

unique said:

it's not the same thing is it?

a click track is temporary, and not heard on the finished release or even demos usually. it's intended to be temporary to help keep the music in time when it lacks a drum beat. with a drum beat in place such as from a drum machine there is no need for a click track

the point is pretty simple. he doesn't use a click track, end of. as you point out, there is no need for one with a drum machine, but the main thing is he doesn't use one for live drums, where a click track may sometimes be required or desired

the questions been answered, no need to digress any further

Well, actually, in my frame of reference a drum machine track would essentially be the same thing as a click. It's an electronic frame of reference to keep his other instruments in perfect timing.

Take a song like "Morning Papers". I would assume that's a real live drum kit used in the song. But since the timing is impeccable, I would also assume that he used a click track for reference.

he doesn't use a click track as he has good timing. it's not perfect though as you can hear if you listen to some tracks slowly change tempo

A great example would be the drums in the first four songs on Parade, which he famously recorded in sequence, in one take. You can hear the tempo flag here and there (in New Position, as I recall), so... no click there, at least!

njin said:

of course he is using click track. Even with a drum machine, if you know anything about sequencing, either he has to have a click track in his ear, or a visual blink track every 1, 2, 3, 4... his programmed beats would never sound as perfectly timed if he didn't. I'm talking about the robotic sequencing. When it comes to his synths and "live" instruments, I believe he is just using the beat as a click track. The only difference between a beat and a click track is that you usually use the beat in the music afterwards. But there are many that uses beats as click track, then erases it, and makes a new one for the finished product.

Yes, with any real-time drum programming, you start with a click track. The difference between real-time drum programming and step sequencing, is that real-time is just that: putting a pattern in "record", and laying it down, layer by layer. Step sequencing is entering notes in places on a grid.

I prefer real-time drum programming.

Anyhow, I usually silence the click track after laying down the kick and snare parts, then continue laying down the rest of th e drums and percussion.

Most drum machines/modules/sequencers allow you to record whatever you record without any timing correction, know as quantising. I don't quantise, because I have great rhythm. If I don't like my part, I do it again.

when the dude who had been let go from paisley park was on here answering questions about a year ago, i asked that specific question about click tracks... he said he was never witness to prince using one and added that michael b. 'is the click.' he said something to the effect of ' who needs a click track when u have the greatest rhythm section in the world,' or something like that.

blows me away that when prince is tracking drums himself he doesn't use one... pretty impressive.

nice thread too... good to see some musical questions on here!

Giovanni777 said:

njin said:

of course he is using click track. Even with a drum machine, if you know anything about sequencing, either he has to have a click track in his ear, or a visual blink track every 1, 2, 3, 4... his programmed beats would never sound as perfectly timed if he didn't. I'm talking about the robotic sequencing. When it comes to his synths and "live" instruments, I believe he is just using the beat as a click track. The only difference between a beat and a click track is that you usually use the beat in the music afterwards. But there are many that uses beats as click track, then erases it, and makes a new one for the finished product.

Yes, with any real-time drum programming, you start with a click track. The difference between real-time drum programming and step sequencing, is that real-time is just that: putting a pattern in "record", and laying it down, layer by layer. Step sequencing is entering notes in places on a grid.

I prefer real-time drum programming.

Anyhow, I usually silence the click track after laying down the kick and snare parts, then continue laying down the rest of th e drums and percussion.

Most drum machines/modules/sequencers allow you to record whatever you record without any timing correction, know as quantising. I don't quantise, because I have great rhythm. If I don't like my part, I do it again.

you obviously haven't played on the linn drum that prince used. i have, and my old boss had a similar model that i played on for years before i went to paisley. it's like using a calculator compared to a spreadsheet. you get a metronome click, but no click track. click tracks are things used for drummers etc, not for programming drum machines. with quantasing, which is far from modern as my workstation from 20 years ago had it, you program the drums etc then quantize to correct the timing

Giovanni777 said:

Thank U. I would LOVE 2 see more specific musical/technical discussions here.

The phenomenal thing about Prince's recordings through the years, is that he doesn't even sequence his keyboard/synth stuff. His timing is immaculate.

I sequence, but I don't quantize, as I take advantage of my timing and rhythm.

He can do straight-up cold, techno-type synth lines on the fly.

When U think he's arpeggiating a synth part, he is usually playing it.

Matt Fink used 2 talk about this.

~G

Michael Bland said so in an interview this year. I believe he stated that Prince's timing is impeccable.

Never knew what he meant. I still don't (kind of).

"If you have to quantize, pitch-correct it, notally inspect it, then you can't do it... and I can't get behind THAT!" -Henry Rollins

unique said:

no he doesn't. he usually lays the drums down first, and when playing live drums he has all the fills etc in place just like on the record, he doesn't lay down a temp track first, no click. then he does the bass next usually, then keys or guitar and usually all 1 take per instrument, then when the instrument tracks are done he sends the engineer away, records his vocals in front of the consule, and when done he calls back the engineer to mix the track and prince leaves and let's them get on with it

that's what femi told me at paisley when i asked the same question

Cool, thanks for the info! As a musician myself I love hearing about how certain artists go about recording and have always been really curious about Prince's style. I could tell he'd start off with an entire drum track on some songs and then add the bass because you can just feel the whole song was based on that specefic rhythm but I'd never have guessed he never uses a click track! Awesome

eyewishuheaven said:

"If you have to quantize, pitch-correct it, notally inspect it, then you can't do it... and I can't get behind THAT!" -Henry Rollins

Just for the record, 'quantizing' and 'playing to a click' are two different things. Quantizing is when you play a line and then go back and digitally correct it to fit perfectly in time - real easy to do these days with modern day digital pianos and wave editing programs. Playing to a click is when you play along to a metronome to stay in time. Often when recording, it's a loud 'click' or 'bleep' sound that cuts through all the other sounds and then removed at the end.

My guess would be for Prince it depends on the song. Sometimes he might want that cold precise sound, and other times he might want that more 'free' feel. But I wouldn't go as far to say he never records with a click. I would guess that he more often than not lays down a drum machine beat first as the 'click', and then at the end he'd go back and re-program the beat to coincide better with what he's put down since. That's the way I go about things anyway... But again... He wouldn't do that with every song...

toejam said:

eyewishuheaven said:

"If you have to quantize, pitch-correct it, notally inspect it, then you can't do it... and I can't get behind THAT!" -Henry Rollins

Just for the record, 'quantizing' and 'playing to a click' are two different things. Quantizing is when you play a line and then go back and digitally correct it to fit perfectly in time - real easy to do these days with modern day digital pianos and wave editing programs. Playing to a click is when you play along to a metronome to stay in time. Often when recording, it's a loud 'click' or 'bleep' sound that cuts through all the other sounds and then removed at the end.

This, I know. I just thought it was a funny and relevant quote.