Militant said:

Neversin, this stuff may be "crap" to you, but it isn't to others. I suggest that you consider that your opinion is not fact before you go calling it that. Many people DO believe that Prince dabbled heavily in the occult. Now, that is a fact, that many people believe that. You don't. That's fine. But your opinion isn't any more valid than anyone elses. The only person that knows 100% of his intentions, is Prince.

Don't backpeddal, it makes you look rather pathetic...

You're trying to twist it now as if you didn't say (and pretending it to be a fact) that Prince dabbled heavily in the occult and that you're just merely stating what some people believe... I call bullshit on that not on what some dumbfucks believe, fuck them, I don't give a shit about what they believe...

My opinion is based on facts not on speculation and ignorance...

Neversin.

Militant said:

I take Prince's word for it when he talks about these things.

Neversin said:

Don't backpeddal, it makes you look rather pathetic...

You're trying to twist it now as if you didn't say (and pretending it to be a fact) that Prince dabbled heavily in the occult and that you're just merely stating what some people believe... I call bullshit on that not on what some dumbfucks believe, fuck them, I don't give a shit about what they believe...

My opinion is based on facts not on speculation and ignorance...

Neversin.

Yawn. You really think I give a fuck if some random person on the internet thinks I'm backpedalling? Again - perspectives. Different. Learn what those mean. Your opinion is that. YOURS. You know damn well that others disagree. Your opinion is more important than theirs, why? I'm not trying to twist anything.

You don't give a shit about what others believe, yet you expect people to give a shit about what you believe? Well, you're a hypocrite in that case.

Facts? You know for a FACT that Prince had no interest in the occult nor wanted people to think that? Get the fuck out with that. Like I said - the ONLY person that knows that for a fact is Prince. Not you, random internet guy.

Militant said:

There's only two explanations for a lot of what he did - that he was interested in the occult, or that he wanted people to think he was. And many people around him in those days will tell you it was definitely the former.

You state, quite unequivocally that 'many people around him [Prince] in those days will tell you that he was interested in the occult'.

To make such a claim, you must have some evidence of people having said this - people who were around him - band members? management? colleagues?

And you tell us there were many of them. Yet you've provided no quotation that suuggests any one who was close to him ever suggested this back in the day, or has subscribed to that view since

But, you tell us, these people, who were around him, will definitely tell you that he was interested in the occult.

So who are these people that will confirm this if we were to ask them?

I think the elements of the 1999 cover were put there specifically to convey the tone of the album -- that is, end-of-the-world/judgment day. Most good album covers are meant to convey the content of the album: headlines on Controversy, sexiness on Purple Rain, playfulness/innocence on ATWIAD, etc. I would not look any deeper than that, really.

And "occult" can also mean anything that is not scientific in nature. Magic, numerology, astrology, gemology, and alchemy are also occult. It doesn't always mean Satanic.

langebleu said:

You state, quite unequivocally that 'many people around him [Prince] in those days will tell you that he was interested in the occult'.

To make such a claim, you must have some evidence of people having said this - people who were around him - band members? management? colleagues?

And you tell us there were many of them. Yet you've provided no quotation that suuggests any one who was close to him ever suggested this back in the day, or has subscribed to that view since

But, you tell us, these people, who were around him, will definitely tell you that he was interested in the occult.

So who are these people that will confirm this if we were to ask them?

Well, I based that on what blackguitaristz had said in a previous discussion on this subject. He's worked with Andre Cymone, Morris Day, Jesse Johnson, other members of The Time, people in other associated acts, people in other bands who toured with P back in the day. I've said many times now that I'm not an expert in this topic and a lot of what I've said is paraphrasing brother blackguitaristz. So, you want a more detailed answer, you could ask him but unfortunately he doesn't post anymore.

I really have nothing further to add in this topic.

And "occult" can also mean anything that is not scientific in nature. Magic, numerology, astrology, gemology, and alchemy are also occult. It doesn't always mean Satanic.

Very true!

zaza said:

My point was that I can't argue as well as native speaker And just like everyone was guessing that it's not gonna be released, you were guessing too. It's Prince-world and there are no rules, except for gravity

Ah, don't put yourself down man. Like I said, I had no idea English wasn't your first language.

I wasn't guessing. I was told by someone who worked on it that it was getting released. I mean, true in Prince-world there are no rules lol. But, still, surely there was enough evidence to think that it was? I mean, it's just one of those character differences. Some people won't believe a word Prince says about something coming out until the CD is in their hands. And that's fair enough based upon how many releases he's cancelled at the last minute. But, well, I'm an optimist like I said. Next time maybe I'll do better to be a bit more cynical.... at least around these parts

Anyway.... no harm done. It's a real shame if he doesn't intend to release these songs, I was looking forward to the extended versions of "Lavaux" etc.

Militant said:

Se7en said:

And "occult" can also mean anything that is not scientific in nature. Magic, numerology, astrology, gemology, and alchemy are also occult.

The irony is that all these topics can be found in Prince's work...

[Edited 12/26/10 14:02pm]

Soulstar77A said:

Se7en said:

And "occult" can also mean anything that is not scientific in nature. Magic, numerology, astrology, gemology, and alchemy are also occult.

The irony is that all these topics can be found in Prince's work...

[Edited 12/26/10 14:02pm]

That's exactly what I meant . . . even Tarot cards are considered occult, as harmless as they are!

Not everything is Satanic in nature - although, pure religious types might think they are.

Se7en said:

I think the elements of the 1999 cover were put there specifically to convey the tone of the album -- that is, end-of-the-world/judgment day. Most good album covers are meant to convey the content of the album: headlines on Controversy, sexiness on Purple Rain, playfulness/innocence on ATWIAD, etc. I would not look any deeper than that, really.

And "occult" can also mean anything that is not scientific in nature. Magic, numerology, astrology, gemology, and alchemy are also occult. It doesn't always mean Satanic.

The most sensible post in here.

I'm interested in a alot of "occult" stuff, but that doesn't mean I go around casting lethal spells on people and worship Satan. So I see nothing wrong or aggravating with stating that Prince was/is into the occult, other than that that statement often refers to Satanism - as if anything "mysterious" and not promoted in a holy book is evil.

All this Satan-talk that's going on makes me think of the days when women were killed because they were thought to be evil witches or when...

Seems to me that we still live in the dark ages. We have come so far yet our minds are still the same as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago.

Militant said:

Yawn. You really think I give a fuck if some random person on the internet thinks I'm backpedalling? Again - perspectives. Different. Learn what those mean. Your opinion is that. YOURS. You know damn well that others disagree. Your opinion is more important than theirs, why? I'm not trying to twist anything.

And yet you did when you tried to backpeddal on your own words...

And since my opinion is mine it is more important than anyone elses and the only one I have to live with... Anyone elses opinion has no meaning or importance to anyone but themselves... Just like yours is only important to you and meaningless and empty to anyone else...

You don't give a shit about what others believe, yet you expect people to give a shit about what you believe? Well, you're a hypocrite in that case.

I don't care if people believe me or not, I just don't make up facts based on someones speculations like you do...

Facts? You know for a FACT that Prince had no interest in the occult nor wanted people to think that? Get the fuck out with that. Like I said - the ONLY person that knows that for a fact is Prince. Not you, random internet guy.

And yet you claim some other random internet guy who worked with some associates his opinions and speculations to be fact, while mine came from the same people (and more) who told me otherwise...

Neversin.

In Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic Prince Mentions "Astral Travel" In Hot Wit U....which is 2 do with the occult....its were 1 learns 2 make there spiritual body leave there psyhical body and go 2 teh spiritual plain at will....its dream-like when u do this and u can meet other Astral Travellers, Deceased and even Angles....hence thats were he may have got the inspiration 4 Future Soul Song...woooooo......im kiddin....or am i?

Militant said:

It strikes me that those people believing in the so called illuminati and NWO, are often those people who said farewell to a conservative, christian upbringing.

They simply seem to 'change' one set of dogma's (evangelical christian ones) to another set (tinfoil hats, obscure websites, people who think they are acting opposite, when they are actually reacting without common sense)

[Edited 1/2/11 13:32pm]

Next to that, americans can react so naive.

MJ-fams are the example of it.

The fact that still so many americans are brainwashed, shortminded evangelicals, does your country no good.

Just browsing. Why is Militant being held in contempt? Any one of us with inside knowledge of a proposed Prince project would be at risk of looking like an idiot for revealing anything. He probably has more undreleased/aborted albums than most big stars combined. His whole career is a series of aborted missions, why is Militant getting blasted because Prince of all people changed his mind?. As for the Occult; you would have to be blind to not take into consideration the deliberate use of symbolism in his early career. Symbols are important, a vehicle to put across messeges you dont intend recipients to fully grasp. Symbols can be used to push agenda. If occult is a word for Hidden, Princes most successful and influential period is defined by hidden messeges/ symbols, dogma and sex-all delivered by a freakishly prolific artist who loves to cover one eye. Blasphamy was also a tool used in his music and a mark of someone who either is naive or deliberate. None of us know, but that is no reason to deny that our boy was on some deep shit that went way over our heads at the time. We were teens, he was grown- we focused on the sex but there were deeper themes some overt and some hidden.

dreamshaman32 said:

Just browsing. Why is Militant being held in contempt? Any one of us with inside knowledge of a proposed Prince project would be at risk of looking like an idiot for revealing anything. He probably has more undreleased/aborted albums than most big stars combined. His whole career is a series of aborted missions, why is Militant getting blasted because Prince of all people changed his mind?. As for the Occult; you would have to be blind to not take into consideration the deliberate use of symbolism in his early career. Symbols are important, a vehicle to put across messeges you dont intend recipients to fully grasp. Symbols can be used to push agenda. If occult is a word for Hidden, Princes most successful and influential period is defined by hidden messeges/ symbols, dogma and sex-all delivered by a freakishly prolific artist who loves to cover one eye. Blasphamy was also a tool used in his music and a mark of someone who either is naive or deliberate. None of us know, but that is no reason to deny that our boy was on some deep shit that went way over our heads at the time. We were teens, he was grown- we focused on the sex but there were deeper themes some overt and some hidden.

Thanks, Shaman. At the end of the day, it's just a shame that people can be so cynical. We'll never know, but it's entirely possible that Prince even changed his mind simply because of reading the forums and seeing that people didn't even believe him about a project that he had spoken directly about AND released a song from. Oh well. It's a shame for the people that appreciated the information because I might not be so quick to share anything in the future.

As for the occult stuff, It's OK. Some people want to accept their opinion as gospel truth and deliberately choose to be closed-minded to other people's opinions. It's a shame that it wasn't possible to have an open minded discussion on this subject, but oh well.

I shook my head at this part...

And since my opinion is mine it is more important than anyone elses

Neversin, you won't get very far in life with that attitude.

Militant said:

dreamshaman32 said:

Just browsing. Why is Militant being held in contempt? Any one of us with inside knowledge of a proposed Prince project would be at risk of looking like an idiot for revealing anything. He probably has more undreleased/aborted albums than most big stars combined. His whole career is a series of aborted missions, why is Militant getting blasted because Prince of all people changed his mind?. As for the Occult; you would have to be blind to not take into consideration the deliberate use of symbolism in his early career. Symbols are important, a vehicle to put across messeges you dont intend recipients to fully grasp. Symbols can be used to push agenda. If occult is a word for Hidden, Princes most successful and influential period is defined by hidden messeges/ symbols, dogma and sex-all delivered by a freakishly prolific artist who loves to cover one eye. Blasphamy was also a tool used in his music and a mark of someone who either is naive or deliberate. None of us know, but that is no reason to deny that our boy was on some deep shit that went way over our heads at the time. We were teens, he was grown- we focused on the sex but there were deeper themes some overt and some hidden.

Thanks, Shaman. At the end of the day, it's just a shame that people can be so cynical. We'll never know, but it's entirely possible that Prince even changed his mind simply because of reading the forums and seeing that people didn't even believe him about a project that he had spoken directly about AND released a song from. Oh well. It's a shame for the people that appreciated the information because I might not be so quick to share anything in the future.

As for the occult stuff, It's OK. Some people want to accept their opinion as gospel truth and deliberately choose to be closed-minded to other people's opinions. It's a shame that it wasn't possible to have an open minded discussion on this subject, but oh well.

I shook my head at this part...

And since my opinion is mine it is more important than anyone elses

Neversin, you won't get very far in life with that attitude.

Thanks, Militant for explaining the occult stuff - Most of what you said makes sense to me-

Militant said:

dreamshaman32 said:

Just browsing. Why is Militant being held in contempt? Any one of us with inside knowledge of a proposed Prince project would be at risk of looking like an idiot for revealing anything. He probably has more unreleased/aborted albums than most big stars combined. His whole career is a series of aborted missions, why is Militant getting blasted because Prince of all people changed his mind?. As for the Occult; you would have to be blind to not take into consideration the deliberate use of symbolism in his early career. Symbols are important, a vehicle to put across messages you dont intend recipients to fully grasp. Symbols can be used to push agenda. If occult is a word for Hidden, Princes most successful and influential period is defined by hidden messages/ symbols, dogma and sex-all delivered by a freakishly prolific artist who loves to cover one eye. Blasphemy was also a tool used in his music and a mark of someone who either is naive or deliberate. None of us know, but that is no reason to deny that our boy was on some deep shit that went way over our heads at the time. We were teens, he was grown- we focused on the sex but there were deeper themes some overt and some hidden.

Thanks, Shaman. At the end of the day, it's just a shame that people can be so cynical. We'll never know, but it's entirely possible that Prince even changed his mind simply because of reading the forums and seeing that people didn't even believe him about a project that he had spoken directly about AND released a song from. Oh well. It's a shame for the people that appreciated the information because I might not be so quick to share anything in the future.

As for the occult stuff, It's OK. Some people want to accept their opinion as gospel truth and deliberately choose to be closed-minded to other people's opinions. It's a shame that it wasn't possible to have an open minded discussion on this subject, but oh well.

I shook my head at this part...

And since my opinion is mine it is more important than anyone elses

Neversin, you won't get very far in life with that attitude.

... it's what I've come to expect from prince.org. A lot of people have small minds and odious was of thinking about Prince because of this or that that he's done with his career. & I agree with you Militant. It's not that I champion anyone on the org but, if someone speaks up and has their own opinion and is not drinking from the purple Kool-aid without thinking for themselves, then I'm all for it.

PurpleLove7 said:

Militant said:

Neversin, you won't get very far in life with that attitude.

... it's what I've come to expect from prince.org. A lot of people have small minds and odious was of thinking about Prince because of this or that that he's done with his career. & I agree with you Militant. It's not that I champion anyone on the org but, if someone speaks up and has their own opinion and is not drinking from the purple Kool-aid without thinking for themselves, then I'm all for it.

Thanks. Nice to know there are still some people here who are able to keep an open mind.

Militant said:

And since my opinion is mine it is more important than anyone elses

Neversin, you won't get very far in life with that attitude.

Yeah sure, that's why I live a fruitful life and do what I want to do...

Neversin.

!!!

Se7en said:

Soulstar77A said:

The irony is that all these topics can be found in Prince's work...

[Edited 12/26/10 14:02pm]

That's exactly what I meant . . . even Tarot cards are considered occult, as harmless as they are!

Not everything is Satanic in nature - although, pure religious types might think they are.

Yeah, but dont tell this that "fishguy" from moquake....

Spinlight said:

Militant said:

Start with the 1999 cover. The placement of the eye. The way the "999" is placed so that it resembles "666" when flipped upside down. The way "PRINCE" upside down has been drawn, by Prince himself, to state "EVIL", with a flame next to it. Then get into the backmasking in songs. Like in The Time's "OnedayI'mgonnabesomebody", when you reverse "We don't like new wave", and Prince/Morris/Jesse/Jam/Lewis/Jerome have specifically said the phrase in a distorted manner so that reversed, it says "here we come for you". There's similar backwards messages in a whole HOST of other songs. Prince was really into that stuff in those days. Many also interpret "Nikki" in Darling Nikki as being Satan.

That's just the beginning.

Prince's overzealous religious fanatacism in the past decade has been interpreted by many as him overcompensating trying to atone for his occult leanings in the early 80's.

We've discussed this many times here before, I'll pull up some old threads tomorrow since there was a lot of interesting things discussed. Unfortunately, the most knowledgeable poster regarding this topic, blackguitaristz, doesn't post anymore, which is a real shame.

It's worth noting that all the conservative religions viewed Prince as evil and satanic in the 80's. The things he did, talking about god on stage in the same verse as talking about fucking and saying all kinds of cuss words, the thing he did where "god's voice" was talking to him on stage, those sort of things are desensitized now BECAUSE of people like Prince, and later Marilyn Manson, but it was all highly sacrilegious in those days and of course Prince knew that and capitalized on it. There's only two explanations for a lot of what he did - that he was interested in the occult, or that he wanted people to think he was. And many people around him in those days will tell you it was definitely the former. The backmasking, imagery of the 1999 cover etc, is all good evidence pointing towards that.

I don't even know where to begin, but this post should've been kept inside your brain as opposed to actually written out on a forum. You make yourself look psychotic, like the Prince fans who obsess over "Black Muse" and such. I don't think you are a psycho, though, despite me not agreeing with most of what you write, ever. lol.

1999 looks like 666 upside down because 6 and 9 are the same icon presented at different angles. To say that somehow he placed 1999 on an album cover to resemble 666 when turned upside down is to say that he intended on having a cover on the album when he put a picture there.

Who interprets the Nikki in "Darling Nikki" as Satan? What? What does that even have to do with the Occult? What "Satan" are you talking about, exactly? lmao. Satanism =/= The Occult. Christian mythology =/= The Occult. If you don't know what Satanism is, don't speak like an authority on it. "Many interpret" - that would be flagged on even fucking Wikipedia as needing a citation. Who is many?

Religious fanaticism? Look, I get that Prince fans had a rude awakening when he decided to stop talking about lewd shit, but he doesn't speak about religion anymore than he used to. In fact, he may even speak about it less than on albums like Lovesexy and Purple Rain and Diamonds and Pearls, which all had anthemic religious songs ("Thunder", "Lovesexy", "Positivity", "Anna Stesia", "I Would Die 4 U", "Purple Rain", "Let's Go Crazy"). He isn't a fucking fanatic, though. Let's get real about this for a second.

You mention Prince and Manson in the same breath, but forget about 2 dozen artists in between the two. Manson arrived in 1994 and if you think Prince was the only standout example of shock rock until Manson came along, you've got another thing comin'. Not sure bout over across the pond, but here in the US, we've had tons of shock rockers and Prince is about as shocking as a heart monitor.

You mention "backmasking" like it's some sinister thing. This recording technique has been used for decades upon decades, well before Prince ever set foot in a recording studio and before he ever picked up a guitar. And I'm sorry, but "We don't like New Wave" sounding like "Here we come for you" doesn't even make sense as the vowel sounds don't match up. The only "oooh" sound in that sentence comes from the word "You" and "New", both at the end of those sentences. If it were backmasking, as you call it, the "ooh" sound would be reversed and appear at the beginning. Simple linguistics shit you're taught in grade school + a little logic and familiarity with English.

I wish people would think before they make retarded posts like this occult crap.

Dude put a sock in it already. You are forever attacking people for voicing their opinion or in this case just repeating what has been discussed on this board on off for over a decade. In a nutshell no one has proof that P was into the occult we do know that back in the 80s loads of people made P out to be satan himself and it was not just religious nuts.

P put out a dark vibe back in the day was it to sell CDs or was he for real we will never really know. What do know is he is not giving off that vibe these days.

Can I just say thank you to all involved for working this topic over? I'm a die-hard Prince fan and this is a topic that interests me.

Do I believe Prince was involved in the Occult? Nope.

Do I believe he used imagery to make you question his faith? Yes.

I think this is much like Prince's blurring his sexual orientation, race and even gender lines in his earlier career. It's called putting on a show. He's good at it.

If we changed the word Occult to Supernatural, it would seem obvious that Prince is into the Supernatural. Prince has written about ghosts, miracles and heaven in his music, all of which (to me) are supernatural. By definition, God is supernatural, right?

On that note, I kind of think Prince's musical talent is supernatural.

NightGod said:

Can I just say thank you to all involved for working this topic over? I'm a die-hard Prince fan and this is a topic that interests me.

Do I believe Prince was involved in the Occult? Nope.

Do I believe he used imagery to make you question his faith? Yes.

I think this is much like Prince's blurring his sexual orientation, race and even gender lines in his earlier career. It's called putting on a show. He's good at it.

If we changed the word Occult to Supernatural, it would seem obvious that Prince is into the Supernatural. Prince has written about ghosts, miracles and heaven in his music, all of which (to me) are supernatural. By definition, God is supernatural, right?

On that note, I kind of think Prince's musical talent is supernatural.

Touche'