Dogsinthetrees said:

It's the general public that he has no faith in, and their ability to accept and appreciate unfamiliar music. He's probably more than 50% correct. The people on this site are not representative of the majority of people going to these shows. When I told people at work that I went to see him on Saturday, most of them only knew "Raspberry Beret" and "Little Red Corvette", and didn't even remember the Purple Rain songs until I reminded them about them.

and without prince pushing his current material and he's not being played on the radio and such it makes it harder. i am hoping in a way that sinbad is accurate on saturday by saying that we won't see this again cause i would sure like 2 see the prince of ONA compared 2 what i saw on saturday some 52 year old man singing songs that he wrote in his 20's

NuPwrSoul said:

jonylawson said:

I mean DAMN! Imagine at the MSG inbetween lets go crazy and 1999

he tore right into DREAMER..then CRIMSON AND CLOVER then FURY!!!

Then people would get real quiet.

A lot of his new material is good, but there aren't immediate hooks that grab you on initial listens... you have to listen to it over and over and over (as you do most of what gets played on the radio), so that there is a familiarity.

Most people attending arena shows such as these are not on exploratory missions for new music... they want to dance and sing along to the familiar. And because his recent material has barely made a dent in the public consciousness, it's not familiar. It doesn't conjure up emotions or memories of good times for the audience.

I would venture to say 95% of the audience wants to hear what they know.

Music listening (as is music performing can be) is a very self-centered act... people want to hear what they want to hear.

If Prince played a bunch of stuff few had heard, it would not be met with the energy and momentum that was at MSG.

like how quiet it got when he did uptown?

prince's music 2 me has always been like this upon 1st listen, either it grabs u instantly or it grows on u.

so is the answer that prince totally stops playing arenas so that as a musician he can truly express himself and either u support him or u don't

dandeeland said:

He could at least play his new music at aftershows but instead he plays Larry Grahams and everyone elses music. He has NO faith in his music anymore

i agree about this about the aftershows, even they are just cover versions of other people's songs and not say the mind blowing experiences of the lovesexy aftershows, or the ona shows

jonylawson said:

TGE tour was a great success

i was amazed that Everyone in glasgow got down wahen i was there for both nights

the reviews were stellar

AND to my memory only ONE hit played which was 7

a VERY VERY brave tour by a major artist

TGE KICKED ASS!!

when he did shows here in NYC A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS KNEW THAT MATERIAL PLAYED AND THE ALBUM WASN'T EVEN OUT YET

so when people say "it's not well known material" BULLSHIT it's out there if u choose 2 find it and listen 2 it.

and if we were 2 go by the "charts" so i guess only the people on the org, moquake and the other fan sites were the only ones that bought lotusflow3r and 3121 that made the albums appear at number one and two respectively? i doubt that!! so 2 give the argument of the side of the causual fan dominates, well as a business man, wouldn't it make sense 2 play current material and u just might sell a few more copies of ur new music.

tell me which fan in here deals with either co workers and family memebers and when u say ur gonna go see prince this question comes "where has prince been" and u spew off his last 20+ albums since PR

L4OATheOriginal said:

jonylawson said:

TGE tour was a great success

i was amazed that Everyone in glasgow got down wahen i was there for both nights

the reviews were stellar

AND to my memory only ONE hit played which was 7

a VERY VERY brave tour by a major artist

TGE KICKED ASS!!

when he did shows here in NYC A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS KNEW THAT MATERIAL PLAYED AND THE ALBUM WASN'T EVEN OUT YET

so when people say "it's not well known material" BULLSHIT it's out there if u choose 2 find it and listen 2 it.

and if we were 2 go by the "charts" so i guess only the people on the org, moquake and the other fan sites were the only ones that bought lotusflow3r and 3121 that made the albums appear at number one and two respectively? i doubt that!! so 2 give the argument of the side of the causual fan dominates, well as a business man, wouldn't it make sense 2 play current material and u just might sell a few more copies of ur new music.

tell me which fan in here deals with either co workers and family memebers and when u say ur gonna go see prince this question comes "where has prince been" and u spew off his last 20+ albums since PR

AURGHHHH i fuckin hate that-easily THE most annoying fact about being a prince fan

last week

'WHOOOOAH WHO THE FUCK IS THAT??? THATS BRILLIANT"

thats laydown by prince

PRINCE?? PURPLE RAIN?? WHOS HE COLLABARATING WITH??

WHERES HE BEEN..THAT CANT BE PRINCE IT SOUNDS SO MODERN

i fuckin kid you not-ad verbatum that convo went

jonylawson said:

Remember the old days when an album drops and old P would play all the new shit live?

i mean i want to hear

DREAMER

WALL OF BERLIN

3121

STICKY LIKE GLUE

LOLITA

BLACK SWEAT

FUTURE SOUL SONG

CHELSEA RODGERS

LOTUSFLOWER

LOVE

ALL THIS LOVE

ELIXER

$ (this would go off live)

XPECTATION (id fucking kill to hear that album live!)

the list is endless

I wanna hear this shit played EVERY night!

but i guess the peeps want 1999 etc......whatever happened to "we gonna give you what you need not what you want"

(yes i know hes played a few of the above on leno etc)

[Edited 12/21/10 0:56am]

I haven't read the thread but I can say that I just heard him play "Laydown" as an opening song and it was killer! He also played two new songs that no one has heard ever--"Black Muse" and " Welcome 2 America." So, no, he is not afraid to play new material.

L4OATheOriginal said:

jonylawson said:

fuck them!

i guess the diffrence is he used to sell albums

but still he could have toured easily on 3121...ah well

give me the new shit instead of shit that u have heard a thousand times b4

if they wanna hear 1999 and all the songs from the 80's, there is plenty of sources out there 2 hear it

if those that want 2 hear the classics and the causual fan people then stay away from prince live in ur time bubble but i guess time is a trick

I see a lot of people are speaking what I have thought and wonder for a long time.

blackbob said:

amberella said:

this is not altogether true....prince...in his so called peak during the 80s....would sell around 3 to 4 million albums worldwide....artwiad...parade...sott...lovesexy...they all sold around this number....prince never sold massive amounts apart from the purple rain album....his last couple of albums...musicology...3121...lotusflower have sold between 1 and 2 million worldwide...but all artists album sales are down from the 80s so no big surprise there...its not lack of sales that are prince's problem with new material ...its the lack of airplay his new songs get...the general public dont get to hear his new stuff ...partly because of his age and all the crap in the 90s with warners ...up until he left warners...prince always had hits...then when he left....radio stopped playing him and the hits dried up ( and his material wasnt great anyway in the late 90s) so its not down to lack of sales of his albums...he is doing ok compared to other artists...

"up until he left warners...prince always had hits...then when he left....radio stopped playing him and the hits dried up"

I wonder how well Purple Rain would have done without Warners??? Could one say U are only as good as the Label promoting U?

purplethunder3121 said:

jonylawson said:

Remember the old days when an album drops and old P would play all the new shit live?

i mean i want to hear

DREAMER

WALL OF BERLIN

3121

STICKY LIKE GLUE

LOLITA

BLACK SWEAT

FUTURE SOUL SONG

CHELSEA RODGERS

LOTUSFLOWER

LOVE

ALL THIS LOVE

ELIXER

$ (this would go off live)

XPECTATION (id fucking kill to hear that album live!)

the list is endless

I wanna hear this shit played EVERY night!

but i guess the peeps want 1999 etc......whatever happened to "we gonna give you what you need not what you want"

(yes i know hes played a few of the above on leno etc)

[Edited 12/21/10 0:56am]

I haven't read the thread but I can say that I just heard him play "Laydown" as an opening song and it was killer! He also played two new songs that no one has heard ever--"Black Muse" and " Welcome 2 America." So, no, he is not afraid to play new material.

congrats-you have missed the entire point of my thread................

I think he should do an arena hits tour for like 2 months and then a theater tour for 2 months. Of course the theater shows would sell out and be a platform for only the new stuff with no covers at all. Also the bsides and obscure tracks. Imagine if he broke into Others here with us or Electric Intercourse. These would be for him and his deepest fans to enjoy his creations. You know with a hits tour and theater fan shows he would make a lot of money. Just a thought.

L4OATheOriginal said:

jonylawson said:

TGE tour was a great success

i was amazed that Everyone in glasgow got down wahen i was there for both nights

the reviews were stellar

AND to my memory only ONE hit played which was 7

a VERY VERY brave tour by a major artist

TGE KICKED ASS!!

when he did shows here in NYC A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS KNEW THAT MATERIAL PLAYED AND THE ALBUM WASN'T EVEN OUT YET

so when people say "it's not well known material" BULLSHIT it's out there if u choose 2 find it and listen 2 it.

True, but then again back then in 1994 he was only trying to fill up The Palladium, not some huge arena like MSG. So, a smaller crowd like that is more than likely going to be filled with diehards than an 18,000-seat arena, which is going to require casual fans and used-to-be fans to sell out.

meisme said:

I think he should do an arena hits tour for like 2 months and then a theater tour for 2 months. Of course the theater shows would sell out and be a platform for only the new stuff with no covers at all. Also the bsides and obscure tracks. Imagine if he broke into Others here with us or Electric Intercourse. These would be for him and his deepest fans to enjoy his creations. You know with a hits tour and theater fan shows he would make a lot of money. Just a thought.

AMEN!!!!

Astasheiks said:

I see a lot of people are speaking what I have thought and wonder for a long time.

trust me ur not alone

what i'm finding hilarious tho in this thread is those that only want 2 hear the 80's shit and the "casual fan" not saying JACK!!

alexnvrmnd777 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

TGE KICKED ASS!!

when he did shows here in NYC A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS KNEW THAT MATERIAL PLAYED AND THE ALBUM WASN'T EVEN OUT YET

so when people say "it's not well known material" BULLSHIT it's out there if u choose 2 find it and listen 2 it.

True, but then again back then in 1994 he was only trying to fill up The Palladium, not some huge arena like MSG. So, a smaller crowd like that is more than likely going to be filled with diehards than an 18,000-seat arena, which is going to require casual fans and used-to-be fans to sell out.

avery fisher hall in 2002 was sold out as well with NO promotion

I don't get the argument that he wouldn't sell out arenas if he didn't play the hits. People buy their tickets before they know the setlist any way.

Prince has faith in Business.

It is all about THE MASTERS.

Since Radios don't play any more Prince's Music, the more he plays his warner Bros catalogue in concerts, the more new fans buy the WB CDs, the more prince is close to getting back the masters.

JBK said:

Prince has faith in Business.

It is all about THE MASTERS.

Since Radios don't play any more Prince's Music, the more he plays his warner Bros catalogue in concerts, the more new fans buy the WB CDs, the more prince is close to getting back the masters.

he gets the masters back due to the time frame not because he sells cd's of the years from warner bros. the music he generates now, he owns the masters outright

Vict0r said:

I don't get the argument that he wouldn't sell out arenas if he didn't play the hits. People buy their tickets before they know the setlist any way.

It's true that the first show, maybe the first few shows, would sell out but if he wasn't playing the hits word would quickly spread and sales would almost certainly slow with only the diehards showing up. I think people deserve to have some idea of what they are paying for. If it's Prince singing the hits a lot of folks would enjoy that. However, if it's Prince at the keyboards, not singing and performing N.E.W.S. or the Madhouse albums the audience for that type of show will be much smaller.

That's why I think a small scale tour, similar to One Nite Alone, could work. If Prince lets people know in advance that he will be performing new/semi-obscure material then people can make an informed decision if that is a concert they want to see. He's not going to draw massive crowds but I do think there are enough people interested in that type of show to sell out theatres.

TrevorAyer said:

prince will release a new record called 'welcome to america' it will be political and controversial to those with heavy programming ala tv, newspaper, pharmicutical and dietary attacks on your ability to process the truth .. it will be his 'whats goin on' .. prince must do greatest hits shows to raise funds for the new record

prince like mccartney, goes back so far he's in front of himself

Hmm...I can buy that this plays a part of what we're seeing. Whether its the whole 9, he'd have to say himself. But remember, the man has/had some serious bills to pay and if he plans to actually promote Welcome 2 America, it will take some funds. Of course he could find another distribution deal, but it helps his leverage for the next album if there are great reviews from the current tour. We don't have a clue if 20Ten is meant for the U.S, although he knows the people like us (who hear Empty Room and In a Large Room w/ no light and can sing the lyrics) have heard it, there has to be a reason he hasn't brought it stateside.

On the other hand, its not like the diehards like us bombarded radio stations to play Lotusflow3r when we knew those songs weren't gonna get in the playlist otherwise. The shame is that a song like Sticky Like Glue could be in r&b pop rotation right now, but is getting abandoned..

skywalker said:

It's not about having/not having faith in his NEW music. It's about knowing the audience. The majority in attendance at huge arena shows aren't prince.org nerds. They want the hits, they pay for the hits, they freak out for the hits Prince knows this. In fact he spoke on this recently

From an interview earlier this year:

But still the records like Purple Rain, Sign O The Times and Parade

are the ones everybody talks about. Isn't it bothering you that all

your work from the past 15year hasn't been that famous/notorious?

No, It's all my music, I'm just as close with my new work as I was earlier on.

I'm still daily in my studio at my house and I still record a lot. There are

three albums ready to release, that mean as much to me as those old records

do to you. A new album from me maybe won't be very impressive to you,

but whose album can be that groundbreaking at the moment?

If the new work means that much to you, why do you play

evening to evening the same old work from the eighties?

Beacause that's what the public comes for. I know that my recent

work is less popular. So if there are 15.000 people here tonight in

the arena, I'm not gonna be obstinate. Do you think it's cool to come

to a party where the DJ is playing unknown music very loudly for

the entire evening? Giving concerts for such a big crowd is still the

thing I like the best. Making records is mostly for the real

collector-fans. But for enjoying my concerts, you don't need to by

my newest albums.

Can it still be fun to play those same old hits every evening?

While you compose a lot of new music?

- Prince graps his guitar and begins to play the old 'Controversy'-

"How can this ever bore me? It's beautiful, right? And I make it

different every time. All the old Prince songs sound different every

evening. Besides, I'm changing my band every few years, with

that it's still a bit exciting for me to. When I was in Belgium earlier

this year, I had a different Bass-play and a different drummer in

my band. That's why I quickly set up this European tour. Don't get

me wrong, but I love Europe. But these concerts are some sort of

rehearsels for my American tour. In fact, I just need about ten

shows before I am in perfect shape.

[Edited 12/23/10 16:55pm]

I was just about to say this, didn't know he'd expressed it already. Look at the setlists from those shows in Europe; they even included a few Bria songs and and old boot we all know in addition to other non-hit tracks. When he segues from Mountains to Shake Your Body here in the states, crowds will go wild. I just hope he tries out some new numbers on the 29th, lol..

jonylawson said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

TGE KICKED ASS!!

when he did shows here in NYC A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS KNEW THAT MATERIAL PLAYED AND THE ALBUM WASN'T EVEN OUT YET

so when people say "it's not well known material" BULLSHIT it's out there if u choose 2 find it and listen 2 it.

and if we were 2 go by the "charts" so i guess only the people on the org, moquake and the other fan sites were the only ones that bought lotusflow3r and 3121 that made the albums appear at number one and two respectively? i doubt that!! so 2 give the argument of the side of the causual fan dominates, well as a business man, wouldn't it make sense 2 play current material and u just might sell a few more copies of ur new music.

tell me which fan in here deals with either co workers and family memebers and when u say ur gonna go see prince this question comes "where has prince been" and u spew off his last 20+ albums since PR

AURGHHHH i fuckin hate that-easily THE most annoying fact about being a prince fan

last week

'WHOOOOAH WHO THE FUCK IS THAT??? THATS BRILLIANT"

thats laydown by prince

PRINCE?? PURPLE RAIN?? WHOS HE COLLABARATING WITH??

WHERES HE BEEN..THAT CANT BE PRINCE IT SOUNDS SO MODERN

i fuckin kid you not-ad verbatum that convo went

been there too jony... we probably all have. I wonder how he must feel knowing that he's got a lot of tracks that, if they're not all When Doves Cry's, are very good in their own right...but he's not getting the credit for having continued to write and record, let alone produce music as good as anyone else's. His pop career could be 'aging' a lot more gracefully than it is. Grammy nominations are okay, but compounding things by wearing the 20Ten art at the BET tribute but not playing Sticky to showcase you've still got the chops? I just don't get it. Ain't nothin' to it but to do it. But then, what do I know...I never thought '7' would go top 10, lol.

QuasarOfRock said:

I think it comes more from his inability to focus coupled with his recent 'okay' musicians, that he can't really be bothered to try to teach the new stuff to. (see the dunhams.)

That's an interesting take. How do you gauge their talent level or musical background?

I think it's more likely that Prince is yanking people's chains yet again about the hits. He would appear to be the lazy one in the equation.

I think he's better off incorporating newer songs in his setlists. He'd have a better chance of generating more interest in buying the newer material.

jonylawson said:

hhhhdmt said:

his "fans" including die hard ones are the ones to attack his new music. So how can u expect him to have faith in his new music when majority of his die-hard fans don't?

fuck them!

i guess the diffrence is he used to sell albums

but still he could have toured easily on 3121...ah well

"Fuck them" nothing. We pay his rent.

Prince is smart enough to know that playing more than a few songs from the last decade is a death wish. He doesn't want bad concert reviews or a bored audience.

I can understand Prince playing the hits....he wouldn't fill an areana without them...he hasn't had a major hit single since The Most Beautiful Girl in the World....only his old stuff is on the radio or tv so yeah I completely understand that BUT I don't understand why he's playing COVERS of other bands songs - and they are OLD songs....if he loves doing covers. fine, play them in a private show or at rehearsals...we've been hearing the same damn covers for years...how the hell is a 'new' fan gonna ever know about his newer songs if he doesn't play them...the last couple of albums has a lot of material that would play well live but instead we get Everyday People/Higher/Disco Damn Fever night after night.....I mean come on, you do know other songs don't you?...step up Prince....we r tired of the same old same old...we love you, not just the 80's Prince but the 2010 Prince....give us a break and play some killer new stuff please...leave the covers to the covers bands...hell let them play them in the warm up show and just do your own stuff...that's what we want and need!

3121/lotusflower and 20ten have some top notch Prince material - lets hear it live!!!

[Edited 12/25/10 20:30pm]

I think it's time to face it, because Prince has: he's a legacy act. New material is only an excuse to tour, not the other way around. As much of the recent stuff I'd love to hear, it's not going to put asses in seats, because no one's ever heard of it, or can't even buy it. The Rainbow Children (and maybe Musicology, a little bit) were the last big push of him being an artist who tours to support a record, instead of vice versa. It's time to come to grips with it, unless you want to shell out for an aftershow or make the trek to Chanhassen for the odd one-off at Paisley Park.

errant said:

I think it's time to face it, because Prince has: he's a legacy act. New material is only an excuse to tour, not the other way around. As much of the recent stuff I'd love to hear, it's not going to put asses in seats, because no one's ever heard of it, or can't even buy it. The Rainbow Children (and maybe Musicology, a little bit) were the last big push of him being an artist who tours to support a record, instead of vice versa. It's time to come to grips with it, unless you want to shell out for an aftershow or make the trek to Chanhassen for the odd one-off at Paisley Park.

"But watching Prince perform, it becomes clear why his hits dried up: Like Paul McCartney, he simply doesn't need any more." --- Jay Ruttenberg, The Volume

well i do agree that playing his newer stuff is certainly better then playing covers, so yeah he can play the hits and some of his newer stuff

[Edited 12/26/10 5:15am]

jimino1 said:

I can understand Prince playing the hits....he wouldn't fill an areana without them...he hasn't had a major hit single since The Most Beautiful Girl in the World....only his old stuff is on the radio or tv so yeah I completely understand that BUT I don't understand why he's playing COVERS of other bands songs - and they are OLD songs....if he loves doing covers. fine, play them in a private show or at rehearsals...we've been hearing the same damn covers for years...how the hell is a 'new' fan gonna ever know about his newer songs if he doesn't play them...the last couple of albums has a lot of material that would play well live but instead we get Everyday People/Higher/Disco Damn Fever night after night.....I mean come on, you do know other songs don't you?...step up Prince....we r tired of the same old same old...we love you, not just the 80's Prince but the 2010 Prince....give us a break and play some killer new stuff please...leave the covers to the covers bands...hell let them play them in the warm up show and just do your own stuff...that's what we want and need!

3121/lotusflower and 20ten have some top notch Prince material - lets hear it live!!!

[Edited 12/25/10 20:30pm]

The problem is, he has no "killer new stuff."