Judging from what I've read and heard on the Peach and Black podcast, along with other things I've observed during the years. It's apparently obvious that Prince has pissed off someone at Warner Brothers! The Peach and Black podcast reported that Several attempts by Prince concerning the remastering of his early recordings have fallen on deaf ears! Prince say's each time he attempts to discuss the matter with someone he gets shuffled around to different people!One visit he speaks with this person next visit it's this person etc. He claims he has the first 4 or 5 albums remastered and ready to go! But still no progress with negotiations! Now my guess is since the first couple albums have regressed back to Prince I'm assuming WB would be loses money? So there not going to wanna spend money on something that's not gonna profit them much! Also I'm gonna take a while stab in the dark and say whenever certain cd's of Prince's regress back to him the less of those particular cd's will you hear on the radio!!! It's quite obvious the work that he has been recording on his own record label has been black balled from the airwaves! Time Warner's damn near owns must of the airwaves in some form or fashion. I really believe that most of this bad blood between Prince and Warners really heated when he turned down that 100million dollar offer from warner's. Not quite sure what all the offer consisted of but they were'nt happy! I don't think Prince has the money to package and distribute his early recordings the way Warner's could? Not sure if he could use another label to distribute what he created on warner's! I really feel that his legacy could be on shakey ground! It's really sad to. This man should have ton's of dvd's and greastest hit's as well as his proteges items on shelves eveywhere! 30 plus years and not one remastered cd! Freaking pitiful! I kinda wondering though if Prince is regreting some of his decissions of the past a little? Anyway that vault of his is a goldmind, wonder what's holding him from unleashing a little? Anyway are there any of you that feel that Warner's is kinda giving Prince the cold shoulder?

I suspect the fact that he spent a chunk of the 90s bad-mouthing WB and performing with "Slave" written on his face might have something to do with it.

If he has recived the any masters back (as he said) then that was something that WB did as a favor as the law is clear that he can not make them give them back for 35 years. (2013 and on).

As for the 'remasters' if prince did it they were not rematered. He may have done more harm than good.

Wow.

squirrelgrease said:

Wow.

I'll second that.

Genesia said:

I suspect the fact that he spent a chunk of the 90s bad-mouthing WB and performing with "Slave" written on his face might have something to do with it.

squirrelgrease said:

Wow.

Go ahead. Read it.

Spinlight said:

squirrelgrease said:

Wow.

Go ahead. Read it.

i tried to get all the way throught it.

he said prince turned down the $100million? LOL huh no.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Spinlight said:

Go ahead. Read it.

i tried to get all the way throught it.

he said prince turned down the $100million? LOL huh no.

Hahaha

wilsoqp said:

I really believe that most of this bad blood between Prince and Warners really heated when he turned down that 100million dollar offer from warner's.

Uh, I was reading your little ill-formatted ramble until I got to this part.

It got heated when Prince willingly SIGNED that "$100 million" contract, found out he had to work for that money (rather than it just be handed to him for the precious genius that he is) and then threw a tantrum. ...because, as we all know, having to work for your paycheck is tantamount to being a SLAVE.

jtfolden said:

wilsoqp said:

I really believe that most of this bad blood between Prince and Warners really heated when he turned down that 100million dollar offer from warner's.

Uh, I was reading your little ill-formatted ramble until I got to this part.

It got heated when Prince willingly SIGNED that "$100 million" contract, found out he had to work for that money (rather than it just be handed to him for the precious genius that he is) and then threw a tantrum. ...because, as we all know, having to work for your paycheck is tantamount to being a SLAVE.

Yep.

The contract itself was a little crazy, though. Definitely not meant to reward Prince so much as force him to stop being artistically lazy. Maybe this was a way for the WB execs to curb his increasingly erratic demands. The production of the album was insane. I really cannot believe the mental state Prince had to be in when he decided that it was a huge, weird, cheaply done rock opera that the world wanted to see. That album had to be the worst album to start a new contract on.

Spinlight said:

The contract itself was a little crazy, though. Definitely not meant to reward Prince so much as force him to stop being artistically lazy. Maybe this was a way for the WB execs to curb his increasingly erratic demands. The production of the album was insane. I really cannot believe the mental state Prince had to be in when he decided that it was a huge, weird, cheaply done rock opera that the world wanted to see. That album had to be the worst album to start a new contract on.

Yeah, the terms of that contract seemed specifically crafted to inspire more commercial efforts from Prince (more D&P, less LoveSexy) and specifically more long-term commitment from him in regard to supporting and marketing them. ...but Prince HAD to understand this at the time he signed it. He knew what his albums typically sold (which were generally below the 5 million required for the bonuses) and he knew what it took to make them successful.

Despite the concept behind it, I think the album is actually teaming with potentially serviceable singles... but Prince fought with WB even there, demanding Sexy MF and My Name Is Prince over their suggestion of 7 as the lead-off, for example. ...and when they fail, he blames the record company.

[Edited 12/6/10 0:51am]

BTW, was it ever known what the name of the second "record label" was that was referenced in connection with this contract, that was supposed to exist along side Paisley Park and release "street music"?

wilsoqp said:

Time Warner's damn near owns must of the airwaves in some form or fashion.

No they don't.

I really believe that most of this bad blood between Prince and Warners really heated when he turned down that 100million dollar offer from warner's.

No he didn't.

Not quite sure what all the offer consisted of but they were'nt happy! I don't think Prince has the money to package and distribute his early recordings the way Warner's could?

No he doesn't.

I kinda wondering though if Prince is regreting some of his decissions of the past a little?

No he doesn't.

Anyway are there any of you that feel that Warner's is kinda giving Prince the cold shoulder?

No I don't.

jtfolden said:

BTW, was it ever known what the name of the second "record label" was that was referenced in connection with this contract, that was supposed to exist along side Paisley Park and release "street music"?

I remember hearing that this second label was titled after the unpronouncable symbol.....meaning,it had no real name.

No,he didn't turn it down.He happily signed the contract in 1992 but when things didn't work out the way he planned,that's when he went to war with Warners.

The Bronfman family pretty much runs WB, and I think at some point, the kids are going to wind up running it. I think it makes sense, considering the path the brother and sister are taking with working on an independent record company and website.

But MIA, who did "Paper Planes", is set for life.

http://www.observer.com/2009/culture/bed-stuy-bronfman?page=all

Paragraphs are fun.

You've also got a whole bunch of things muddled up and topsy-turvy, but I'm guessing someone else will rip your post apart to give you the lowdown on those

SoulAlive said:

jtfolden said:

BTW, was it ever known what the name of the second "record label" was that was referenced in connection with this contract, that was supposed to exist along side Paisley Park and release "street music"?

I remember hearing that this second label was titled after the unpronouncable symbol.....meaning,it had no real name.

Yes, I'd heard that rumor, too, but wondered if there had ever been anything concrete known about it before it was scuttled.

Tremolina said:

wilsoqp said:

Time Warner's damn near owns must of the airwaves in some form or fashion.

No they don't.

No he doesn't.

Anyway are there any of you that feel that Warner's is kinda giving Prince the cold shoulder?

No I don't.

... way to break it down

Prince's issue with the company was during the Time Warner era.

But did you know Kara DioGuardi is VP of Warner Bros Records? What is she doing lately? Maybe she's back in the office, or waiting for Simon to call her to judge...

I really believe that most of this bad blood between Prince and Warners really heated when he turned down that 100million dollar offer from warner's.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

As for the 'remasters' if prince did it they were not rematered. He may have done more harm than good.

What you mean? Prince owns the multi-tracks and he most likely has a copy of the masters on DAT. So he could have had them remastered fine with those, in fact better with the multi-track since he can adjust levels for each track (ie: bass, guitar, keyboard, vocals) if he felt he wanted some technical changes.

Now if you're talking about him editing songs for content (ie: lyrics, redoing instruments, changing arrangements) then I see if your point.

[Edited 12/8/10 16:12pm]

[Edited 12/8/10 16:12pm]

wilsoqp said:

Judging from what I've read and heard on the Peach and Black podcast, along with other things I've observed during the years. It's apparently obvious that Prince has pissed off someone at Warner Brothers!

- Not really. Obviously, they weren't too impressed with the whole "Slave" debacle back in 1994, but that's water under the bridge now.

The Peach and Black podcast reported that Several attempts by Prince concerning the remastering of his early recordings have fallen on deaf ears!

- That's not what I heard. WB had been keen in doing this for years, but it was Prince who wasn't interested.

Prince say's each time he attempts to discuss the matter with someone he gets shuffled around to different people! One visit he speaks with this person next visit it's this person etc.

- Well, that part's probably true. WB is a big company and has had several management changes. So it's quite likely that any given dept. will have a different person in charge every couple of years or so (that's just how businesses are these days, unfortunately)

He claims he has the first 4 or 5 albums remastered and ready to go! But still no progress with negotiations!

- From what I heard, that's because he wants far too much money for them. Also, has he really 'remastered' his first few albums himself? Has he done it properly? He's no mastering engineer, so who did it and when? Did he tamper with the content/lyrics? Personally, If I was WB, I'd want my own people in charge of this to make sure it's done properly.

Now my guess is since the first couple albums have regressed back to Prince I'm assuming WB would be loses money?

- No, they haven't. It takes 35 years for the ownership of masters to automatically return to the artist.

So there not going to wanna spend money on something that's not gonna profit them much!

- What business would? That's why it's called the music 'business'. At the end of the day, no record company is going to invest time and money into a project that isn't going to make money. Especially these days.

Also I'm gonna take a while stab in the dark and say whenever certain cd's of Prince's regress back to him the less of those particular cd's will you hear on the radio!!! It's quite obvious the work that he has been recording on his own record label has been black balled from the airwaves!

- Not true. Radio stations are corprate entities, they don't spend any effort 'looking' for new things to play. They rely on the majors spoon feeding them stuff. It's been that way for donkeys years. No need to 'blackball' anyone. If you ain't got money and a major behind you, you ain't gonna get played on national radio. Independant or college radio is always very geared towards new artists, so it's unlikely for a 50+ artist to get played there either.

Time Warner's damn near owns must of the airwaves in some form or fashion. I really believe that most of this bad blood between Prince and Warners really heated when he turned down that 100million dollar offer from warner's.

- Total crap! He didn't turn down the offer, he took it. THAT was the problem! He got blinded by the $$s of a big time commercial deal that Madonna or MJ would have been happy with. But to make those kida deals pay, you have to play by the rules and sell big numbers. Prince either didn't understand what he was getting himslef into or he wanted to have his cake and eat it. Either way, he should've known better.

Not quite sure what all the offer consisted of but they were'nt happy! I don't think Prince has the money to package and distribute his early recordings the way Warner's could? Not sure if he could use another label to distribute what he created on warner's! I really feel that his legacy could be on shakey ground! It's really sad to.

- Prince is already late to the 'remastering' party. If he doesn't do it in the next couple of years, that boat will have sailed completely.

This man should have ton's of dvd's and greastest hit's as well as his proteges items on shelves eveywhere! 30 plus years and not one remastered cd! Freaking pitiful!

- That, we can agree on.

I kinda wondering though if Prince is regreting some of his decissions of the past a little? Anyway that vault of his is a goldmind, wonder what's holding him from unleashing a little? Anyway are there any of you that feel that Warner's is kinda giving Prince the cold shoulder?

- WB is a business, and businesses don't hold grudges, people do. As I said before, people turn over too quickly in big business for this to happen. At the end of the day they're main interest is gonna be whether something is gonna be worthwhile/profitable or not. The only person who can say whether Prince regrets his past decisions is Prince himself, and the only person holding the vault doors closed is Prince too.

[Edited 12/9/10 1:25am]

i dont necessarily agree with the argument that if prince doesnt remaster in the next couple of years, his remasters wouldnt be successfull. Even if he were to remaster after 5 years, plenty of people would be interested

Mindflux said:

Also, those that are suggesting that remastering should be left to WB because they would do a "proper job" are talking out of their arse! (EDIT)

who said that?

rudedog said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

As for the 'remasters' if prince did it they were not rematered. He may have done more harm than good.

What you mean? Prince owns the multi-tracks and he most likely has a copy of the masters on DAT. So he could have had them remastered fine with those, in fact better with the multi-track since he can adjust levels for each track (ie: bass, guitar, keyboard, vocals) if he felt he wanted some technical changes.

Now if you're talking about him editing songs for content (ie: lyrics, redoing instruments, changing arrangements) then I see if your point.

[Edited 12/8/10 16:12pm]

[Edited 12/8/10 16:12pm]

i am saying he lacks the know how to do it properly. He needs to hire a company that has experience.

But you are correct having the multis is a big huge advantage. NOT so much the DATs. as those may not have been properly transferred to begin with. Just listen to some of the cds!

One thing having the multi track masters would allow is a multi track (dvd?) that would let US make level adjustments to each track. now that would be cool. But I think someone's ego might not allow that.

BorisFishpaw said:

- No, they haven't. It takes 35 years for the ownership of masters to automatically return to the artist.

Not automatically but 5 years after a request is made.

- Prince is already late to the 'remastering' party. If he doesn't do it in the next couple of years, that boat will have sailed completely.

naww, it needs to be done again every so often anyway.

^ Actually, I'm pretty sure the request needs to be made 10 years beforehand. But there's some disagreement about whether this would actually stop ownership returning if it wasn't done.

Also, the viability of 'remastering' from a commerical perspective is really tied in with physical formats at the moment (as MP3 quality isn't really good enough for people to really notice the difference). Since CDs are on the decline then the viability of remastering will decline with it. As the main market for 'remastered' packages is still on CD, usually with expanded packaging and bonus tracks etc. Until, of course, alternate higher quality formats become commonplace.

[Edited 12/10/10 3:04am]