You think Per has considered reissuing The Vault online at Kindle or iBooks?

Has anyone started the process to convert it to PDF?

I have used this book more than any book in my life. I would like to have a digital copy though. It's time this encyclopedia lived online and I would rather see Uptown reep the benefits from it.

You have more chance of Prince never playing Purple Rain again than Per putting The vault on the net as a PDF.

Then again, never say never.

[Edited 11/26/10 13:13pm]

Despite not containing the in depth "diary" part of the book, http://www.princevault.co.../Main_Page is the closest you are gonna get to an online version of The Vault, and at least the website is more up to date.

Earlier in the year, Per came on here and was interested in selling a few copies of the Vault because people were asking for it.

I got in touch with him via email. He basically said that there won't be an update (from him) for the Vault and that Uptown is shut down. He said that if others were interested in doing a similar book, they could get in touch with him for research purposes. But no one had done that.

I did ask him specifically if he had considered publishing it as an e-book, but he didn't answer that.

^^ Yep, he told me pretty much the same.

He told me that he travels a lot and simply would not have the time to put into another/updated book.

Nice guy.

That's a shame, I guess I better take care of my copies of The Vault, Days Of Wild and ..A Documentary. They're the best resources for information that I have.

I have a friend who publishes eBooks on Kindle and Apple if Per was to ever reconsider.

bonnie184 said:

I would think a third party company could put it together for an online release. Per wouldn't have to mess with it really. Princevault.com is nice, but I prefer The Vault.

Yeah, I think my buddy would just publish it as it stands... probably with the option for Per to update it if he ever wishes to do so. If you're reading this Per and want to find out more about costs, how it would work etc you can send me a pm and I'll put you in touch with him.

By my reckoning, if you sell each eBook for say $10 you would probably recoup your costs on pre orders alone... there are a lot of folks who'd love to read it.

MikeyB71 said:

Despite not containing the in depth "diary" part of the book, http://www.princevault.co.../Main_Page is the closest you are gonna get to an online version of The Vault, and at least the website is more up to date.

It's a shame the Vault never got the update that was coming at one point, but it seems so long ago now.

pacey68 said:

bonnie184 said:

I would think a third party company could put it together for an online release. Per wouldn't have to mess with it really. Princevault.com is nice, but I prefer The Vault.

Yeah, I think my buddy would just publish it as it stands... probably with the option for Per to update it if he ever wishes to do so. If you're reading this Per and want to find out more about costs, how it would work etc you can send me a pm and I'll put you in touch with him.

By my reckoning, if you sell each eBook for say $10 you would probably recoup your costs on pre orders alone... there are a lot of folks who'd love to read it.

It'd be on torrents/rapidshare etc the day after the first sale.

Better just to update princepedia on the org or contribute to Princevault.com

[Edited 11/27/10 3:15am]

NouveauDance said:

pacey68 said:

Yeah, I think my buddy would just publish it as it stands... probably with the option for Per to update it if he ever wishes to do so. If you're reading this Per and want to find out more about costs, how it would work etc you can send me a pm and I'll put you in touch with him.

By my reckoning, if you sell each eBook for say $10 you would probably recoup your costs on pre orders alone... there are a lot of folks who'd love to read it.

It'd be on torrents/rapidshare etc the day after the first sale.

[Edited 11/27/10 3:15am]

Of course. But that's true of any digitial media. If he did put it up for sale at a reasonable price, there are plenty of people who would pay for it, myself included. It's the same argument that holds true for Prince and his live shows and outtakes.

Hey, I hav a scanner. If anyone wants to volunteer their copy for the greater good, I can scan the whole thing and turn it intp a PDF.

Put that thing on bitorrent and problem solved for everyone!

JudasLChrist said:

Hey, I hav a scanner. If anyone wants to volunteer their copy for the greater good, I can scan the whole thing and turn it intp a PDF.

Put that thing on bitorrent and problem solved for everyone!

Lol, sounds like good idea...

Come on fellas.

errant said:

NouveauDance said:

It'd be on torrents/rapidshare etc the day after the first sale.

[Edited 11/27/10 3:15am]

Of course. But that's true of any digitial media. If he did put it up for sale at a reasonable price, there are plenty of people who would pay for it, myself included. It's the same argument that holds true for Prince and his live shows and outtakes.

Absolutely.

I realise digital piracy is a massive problem, but people do seem to make an assumption that if you release any form of digital media, you won't make a cent from it because it will just be shared on torrents, etc...

If that were so, there wouldn't be more than one copy of any CD sold today, nor any eBook, nor any game or program. Just because people CAN get these things for free, doesn't mean everyone will.

IF there are artists and authors out there today withholding material simply on this assumption (and I'm not suggesting there are, because I realise there are often other complexities in play - particularly in the case of The Vault), I seriously hope they reconsider, because not releasing work at all usually results in one of two outcomes;

Either the work is never sold, thus never shared with the public and no money is made by the creator of the work; or

The work is leaked, shared with those partial to illegal downloads but kept from those who choose not to go down that path, and no money is made by the creator of the work.

For anyone that disputes that there is money to be made through digitial distribution, just ask some of those groups who sell boots that are released by other groups intended for to be shared for free - there you have a mix of customers who either don't realise the boot is available elsewhere for free and pay money to people who contributed zero effort to the creation of the work, as well as innocent folk who don't realise its a boot and would obviously pay good money to the actual artist if they were willing to offer their work for sale in the first place.

I even wonder if more digital material available for reasonable prices through reputable online distribution channels would slowly bring about a culture change whereby more people were happy to pay for work they know they could get elsewhere for free simply to acknowledge the creator of the work and to ensure continued output from them.

JudasLChrist said:

Hey, I hav a scanner. If anyone wants to volunteer their copy for the greater good...

Interesting definition of the greater good.

If dude's not going to repress it, then let's just make a PDF of it ourselves! Again, I've got a scanner, people!

It just takes ONE person giving it to me, then we ALL can have it.

If Dude would just post a PDF of it himself, I would gladly give him some money for it.

errant said:

NouveauDance said:

It'd be on torrents/rapidshare etc the day after the first sale.

[Edited 11/27/10 3:15am]

Of course. But that's true of any digitial media. If he did put it up for sale at a reasonable price, there are plenty of people who would pay for it, myself included. It's the same argument that holds true for Prince and his live shows and outtakes.

I was chatting to my publisher pal... regarding the profit margins he says Per would get 51%, Apple take 30% and he takes 19%. Quarterly statements and payment. He says his books are selling well, none have appeared as torrents to his knowledge, the authors are very happy with the arrangement.

He says he can get a book on there within a week and all the author has to do is to sit back and collect the cheque every 3 months... I hope Per decides to do it, The Vault is far too good to be unavailable.

it was mentioned by gav on mousequake that per wouldn't sell reprints or a pdf version out of respect for those who have recently paid a lot of money for copies of the book

personally, for the sake of a minority of people who have bought second hand copies for a lot of money, who obviously had the money and made the personal choice to splash the cash, i would have thought selling a reprint would have been a good idea. whilst a pdf copy might be easily copied and pirated online, there are small print run options that could have been used instead, where the publisher holds a pdf file and prints individual copies of the publication per order. the books obviously aren't as cheap as most regular books, but they woulid be cheaper than the going rate for second hand copies and per would make a cut from it

as time goes on we are just getting closer and closer until someone scans the book and puts a pdf file online and it defeats pers current aims

unique said:

it was mentioned by gav on mousequake that per wouldn't sell reprints or a pdf version out of respect for those who have recently paid a lot of money for copies of the book

personally, for the sake of a minority of people who have bought second hand copies for a lot of money, who obviously had the money and made the personal choice to splash the cash, i would have thought selling a reprint would have been a good idea. whilst a pdf copy might be easily copied and pirated online, there are small print run options that could have been used instead, where the publisher holds a pdf file and prints individual copies of the publication per order. the books obviously aren't as cheap as most regular books, but they woulid be cheaper than the going rate for second hand copies and per would make a cut from it

as time goes on we are just getting closer and closer until someone scans the book and puts a pdf file online and it defeats pers current aims

Exactly. I really don't understand Per's hesitation to re-publish the book or make it an e-book for the people who are spending a lot of money on used copies currently. Shouldn't the rationale be that there are a lot of people who want the book now and that he can provide it to them for a normal price instead of the $250 that it goes for on eBay?

I would think he'd prefer us all to buy it for a decent list price rather than continuing to pay the outrageous prices that the first print run goes for now.

As much as I'd love everybody who wants a copy to have one... I wouldn't be happy if it were scanned and offered for free. I'd feel it would be disrespecting Per when he worked so hard on what was obviously a labour of love

pacey68 said:

As much as I'd love everybody who wants a copy to have one... I wouldn't be happy if it were scanned and offered for free. I'd feel it would be disrespecting Per when he worked so hard on what was obviously a labour of love

If he doesn't make the merchandise available, nobody can buy it.

pacey68 said:

As much as I'd love everybody who wants a copy to have one... I wouldn't be happy if it were scanned and offered for free. I'd feel it would be disrespecting Per when he worked so hard on what was obviously a labour of love

Conversely, as such a labour of love surely it makes sense to give people the chance to read it. I would love to have a copy and I would gladly pay, but I certainly am not gonna pay ebay prices for it. If the ONLY route was a scanned PDF then I would take it.

I don't know, so shoot me down if I'm wrong, but there must be a way for someone to take a number of orders upfront for a printed copy. If you get enough orders do a print run, if not refund the orders (maybe even minus a small admin fee?).

BTW, don't the books on iTunes have DRM?

[Edited 11/28/10 16:37pm]

I have 2 who want to buy the 2nd-PM me!Lets talk!!!

Spinlight said:

pacey68 said:

As much as I'd love everybody who wants a copy to have one... I wouldn't be happy if it were scanned and offered for free. I'd feel it would be disrespecting Per when he worked so hard on what was obviously a labour of love

If he doesn't make the merchandise available, nobody can buy it.

Yeah I understand the Catch 22 situation... conversely, people had the opportunity to buy it when it was published. I recall pre-ordering a copy months before it was printed and I got a discount. The pre-orders most likely paid for the print run and if more had paid at the time there probably would have been more copies printed.

Don't get me wrong, I just wish he would re-release it in some format and be rewarded rather than people uploading scans of it and he makes nothing. As I mentioned in previous posts he could have an ebook on iBooks within a week and all he would need to pay for upfront is an eBook ISBN number.

Of course an eBook may end up getting pirated but I think the majority of folks on here would happily pay for it given the opportunity.

[Edited 11/28/10 18:39pm]

pacey68 said:

Spinlight said:

If he doesn't make the merchandise available, nobody can buy it.

Yeah I understand the Catch 22 situation... conversely, people had the opportunity to buy it when it was published. I recall pre-ordering a copy months before it was printed and I got a discount. The pre-orders most likely paid for the print run and if more had paid at the time there probably would have been more copies printed.

Don't get me wrong, I just wish he would re-release it in some format and be rewarded rather than people uploading scans of it and he makes nothing. As I mentioned in previous posts he could have an ebook on iBooks within a week and all he would need to pay for upfront is an eBook ISBN number.

Of course an eBook may end up getting pirated but I think the majority of folks on here would happily pay for it given the opportunity.

[Edited 11/28/10 18:39pm]

it's easy to say people had the opportunity to buy it in advance, but the book came out nearly 10 years ago. that's a long time ago. and as i mentioned before, it could be made available to buy without hassle as a paper reprint instead of copyable pdf file, and per could set his price high

There is no Catch 22. It's either for sale or it's not for sale. If it is, great, a lot of people will buy it for a reasonable price and Per will make money from it. If it's not, people will continue to pay outrageous prices for it on eBay or someone will eventually make it free to all of us.

tecstar said:

pacey68 said:

As much as I'd love everybody who wants a copy to have one... I wouldn't be happy if it were scanned and offered for free. I'd feel it would be disrespecting Per when he worked so hard on what was obviously a labour of love

Conversely, as such a labour of love surely it makes sense to give people the chance to read it. I would love to have a copy and I would gladly pay, but I certainly am not gonna pay ebay prices for it. If the ONLY route was a scanned PDF then I would take it.

I don't know, so shoot me down if I'm wrong, but there must be a way for someone to take a number of orders upfront for a printed copy. If you get enough orders do a print run, if not refund the orders (maybe even minus a small admin fee?).

BTW, don't the books on iTunes have DRM?

[Edited 11/28/10 16:37pm]

My thoughts exactly. Prince Vault is great, but the chance to read/own The Vault (as well as Per's other books) would be fantastic!

errant said:

There is no Catch 22. It's either for sale or it's not for sale. If it is, great, a lot of people will buy it for a reasonable price and Per will make money from it. If it's not, people will continue to pay outrageous prices for it on eBay or someone will eventually make it free to all of us.

that's the strange thing. apart from a few spare copies that per sold, he's not making any money when fans sell copies to each other at high prices, unless he has a secret stash that he sells one at a time, but he could probably make more profit from a rerelease, and keep more fans happy. the only people who wouldn't be happy would be those few people who paid silly money for a book, and those who would want to profit from the book at a later date