CallMeCarrie said:

He's made himself too much of a recluse and can no longer write meaningful lyrics that the world can indentify with.

[Edited 11/20/10 13:41pm]

Huh? Prince was way more of a recluse in the 80's than he is now.

skywalker said:

CallMeCarrie said:

He's made himself too much of a recluse and can no longer write meaningful lyrics that the world can indentify with.

[Edited 11/20/10 13:41pm]

Huh? Prince was way more of a recluse in the 80's than he is now.

Yea - now add 30 years to it. He is even further removed.

Fuck. Motherfucker. Pussy.

CallMeCarrie said:

skywalker said:

Huh? Prince was way more of a recluse in the 80's than he is now.

Yea - now add 30 years to it. He is even further removed.

Examples of him being more reclusive now than in the 80's?

Hunger, humility, inspiration, Wendy & Lisa (for the most part).

skywalker said:

CallMeCarrie said:

Yea - now add 30 years to it. He is even further removed.

Examples of him being more reclusive now than in the 80's?

I'd hardly class sending cryptic messages to fans via Dr Dingleberry & LovedUpShelbyYoutube evidence of him being less reclusive now.

And I'm with Carrie when it comes to him being reclusive musically. In the 80's people like Susan Rogers and Wendy & Lisa could give him honest feedback. Nowadays he's just surrounded by yes men and as a result we end up with 'All the Midnights in the World' and 'Purple & Gold'.

You can;t get better examples that than as far as I'm concerned.

erik319 said:

skywalker said:

Examples of him being more reclusive now than in the 80's?

I'd hardly class sending cryptic messages to fans via Dr Dingleberry & LovedUpShelbyYoutube evidence of him being less reclusive now.

And I'm with Carrie when it comes to him being reclusive musically. In the 80's people like Susan Rogers and Wendy & Lisa could give him honest feedback. Nowadays he's just surrounded by yes men and as a result we end up with 'All the Midnights in the World' and 'Purple & Gold'.

You can;t get better examples that than as far as I'm concerned.

Silkilove said:

A sense of wonder is missing.

His music is amazing, but he's chasing me away with preachiness. It's hard to separate the music from the lyrics, so I struggle with him being such a talent, but making it harder to appreciate it due to his preachiness.

Earlier releases seemed to be searching for answers and questioning, which many can relate to. Now, he has all the answers/truth.

Anna Stesia and Elephants and Flowers brought me closer to wanting to know more about Christ and the Lord from a Christian perspective than anything on "The Rainbow Children." The you've got it wrong and I've found the light argument just makes me roll my eyes.

This is a great post, on point.

At this moment in time, the extended versions of Lavaux and Act of God.

For those missing stuff in his recent music, I think you just have to come to terms with the fact that younger Prince had few borders, was sexually very charged and was also naive.

Like most of us "this thing called life" burnt him here and there. He learnt from that, that borders are actually good, they protect yourself and others. While still thoroughly energetic, his sexuality is now channelled into the more lasting things in life and he's not naive anymore.

I find his ballads and certain recent music still sexual, it just has more nuance to it.

As far as Purple and Gold goes, it wasn't his fans, it was for the football club wasn't it?

purplethunder3121 said:

QCC: Questioning, Conflict, and Complexity.

That is a very interesting conclusion. Thank you. I have to agree (though I do enjoy a lot of his recent output)

The resolution to this problem, though, might lie in some of the other answers on this thread:

- More adversity (for getting the conflict back into the music and the need to prove himself)

- More insider challenging (from the likes of Wendy, Lisa, Susan Rodgers)

erik319 said:

skywalker said:

Examples of him being more reclusive now than in the 80's?

I'd hardly class sending cryptic messages to fans via Dr Dingleberry & LovedUpShelbyYoutube evidence of him being less reclusive now.

And I'm with Carrie when it comes to him being reclusive musically. In the 80's people like Susan Rogers and Wendy & Lisa could give him honest feedback. Nowadays he's just surrounded by yes men and as a result we end up with 'All the Midnights in the World' and 'Purple & Gold'.

You can;t get better examples that than as far as I'm concerned.

Carrie's initial position was that Prince is MORE reclusive now than he was in the 80's.

There is simply no evidence to support this. He's always been surrounded by yes men...the theory holds no water. I mean, Wendy and Lisa and Susan Rogers left the fold in 1986. So what about the quality music you have enjoyed since then?

Plus, him listening to people in his own band has nothing to do with being reclusive or not. Hanging with Wendy and her sister isn't the same as being out in public, or not a recluse.

If you like his current music less than his 198whenever output, that's fine. But, it's a stretch to come up with theories of Prince being more of a recluse to explain this.

[Edited 11/21/10 7:11am]

[Edited 11/21/10 7:12am]

skywalker said:

erik319 said:

I'd hardly class sending cryptic messages to fans via Dr Dingleberry & LovedUpShelbyYoutube evidence of him being less reclusive now.

And I'm with Carrie when it comes to him being reclusive musically. In the 80's people like Susan Rogers and Wendy & Lisa could give him honest feedback. Nowadays he's just surrounded by yes men and as a result we end up with 'All the Midnights in the World' and 'Purple & Gold'.

You can;t get better examples that than as far as I'm concerned.

If you like his current music less than his 198whenever output, that's fine. But, it's a stretch to come up with theories of Prince being more of a recluse to explain this.

Who the hell are you and what have you done with Skywalker?

skywalker said:

CallMeCarrie said:

He's made himself too much of a recluse and can no longer write meaningful lyrics that the world can indentify with.

[Edited 11/20/10 13:41pm]

Huh? Prince was way more of a recluse in the 80's than he is now.

I believe you've misunderstood his/her post and their subsequent reply to you reinforcing it and gone off on a tangental rave, they haven't suggested Prince is MORE recluse today than 30 years ago, and i dont really think "recluseness" is something you can quantifiably measure, but rather that the effects of being so no doubt compound over time.

Se7en said:

Silkilove said:

A sense of wonder is missing.

His music is amazing, but he's chasing me away with preachiness. It's hard to separate the music from the lyrics, so I struggle with him being such a talent, but making it harder to appreciate it due to his preachiness.

Earlier releases seemed to be searching for answers and questioning, which many can relate to. Now, he has all the answers/truth.

Anna Stesia and Elephants and Flowers brought me closer to wanting to know more about Christ and the Lord from a Christian perspective than anything on "The Rainbow Children." The you've got it wrong and I've found the light argument just makes me roll my eyes.

This is a great post, on point.

Thirded. Very well put, and very much how i see things.

Wonder, as in figuring things out, going on a journey, or struggling in front of mystery. Or even just the girl you're trying to get with. Instead we've got:

"if you want to get with me/this is how it's gonna be"

I don't remember the last Prince song i related to lyrically. I still appreciate the music, and will always appreciate the man, but once a guy gets all the answers he becomes very hard to listen to.

FUN ... all the fun is gone . I know none of us is getting any younger but for the love of God or whoever just bring back the fun and some of the naughty too

skywalker said:

What's missing? You. You aren't a teenager anymore. Sorry to say it.

Yep. Also, nobody ever promised you that you're gonna love the same thing for decades, neither anyone ever guaranteed that an artist has an unlimited amount of ideas, and especially ideas that you're gonna love. I'll never understand that some people actually think good vs bad music is an universal and factual thing.

erik319 said:

skywalker said:

If you like his current music less than his 198whenever output, that's fine. But, it's a stretch to come up with theories of Prince being more of a recluse to explain this.

Who the hell are you and what have you done with Skywalker?

Haha What I am saying is that, everyone is entitled to enjoy/dislike what they like. I've never had a problem with people saying that they enjoy Prince in the 80's better. What I have a problem with is when people cannot leave it at that.

Instead of just owning up to their own personal feelings/perspectives...they look for some reason and come up with blurbs like "Prince lost it because...".

I have always maintained that art is a two way street. A give and take. Sure, Prince is responsible for making the music, but as listeners you are in charge your own experience.

LiveToTell86 said:

skywalker said:

What's missing? You. You aren't a teenager anymore. Sorry to say it.

Yep. Also, nobody ever promised you that you're gonna love the same thing for decades, neither anyone ever guaranteed that an artist has an unlimited amount of ideas, and especially ideas that you're gonna love. I'll never understand that some people actually think good vs bad music is an universal and factual thing.

Agree completely. I enjoy Prince now just as much as I did back in the 80's. Some people don't. Is that Prince's fault? Did my taste in music drop off? It's all opinion.

skywalker said:

Instead of just owning up to their own personal feelings/perspectives...they look for some reason and come up with blurbs like "Prince lost it because...".

Exactly, why can't it be "I got exposed to different kinds of music and I like them more now" or "I got tired of his voice"? There's nothing wrong with losing interest and changing tastes, but it's so rarely admitted and instead it's the veil of "the artist used to please me, now he's not, I want him to revert back to when he was satisfying me me me!".

polkadotbliss said:

cuz today-music for P is business only-paying staff-mortgages etc-all takes cash......

whereas 20 yrs ago it was all about the passion for it-age and religion has all but killed his passion

so now-it keeps him in designer threads n limo's and pays the bills

and it kinda shows

Agree, its showing

sro100 said:

Fuck. Motherfucker. Pussy.

Yessss! I miss uncensored Prince. The moment someone starts censoring themselves is the moment they start changing for the boring.

[Edited 11/21/10 14:31pm]

hunger

I heard this story about a busdriver who instead of following his own path, he followed every path that was suggested by every new passenger.

First an older woman got in the bus and wanted him to drive slow to quit place, then a young teenage boy hopped on the bus and told the driver to switch gears, accelerate and speed forward to a place with a lot of similar youngsters, so he could feel at home. Then a sad, hurt and lonely 35-year old got on the bus and asked the driver to please drive off a cliff.

Fortunately the busdriver is steering the bus only down his path and not following the instructions of every new passenger who wants to have a ride on his bus....

Just have what you prefer and let others have their preferences: or

Judgement is in the of the beholder.

dJJ said:

I heard this story about a busdriver who instead of following his own path, he followed every path that was suggested by every new passenger.

but then a bus driver is held to the same route and schedule by their bosses day after day and year after year and they have to follow strict rules. Same old same old over and over! (i guess it is just like prince)

Well then there's no reason to complain, is there?

If he's doing the same path over and over again; that implies he's actually doing the same as he did in the '80s.

And did he ever question himself? I have the impression he's quite pleased with his talents. I never heard him questioning that much. Not even in the '80s

Don't know if that's good thing though

dJJ said:

And did he ever question himself? I have the impression he's quite pleased with his talents. I never heard him questioning that much. Not even in the '80s

Don't know if that's good thing though

You have helluv action going on in your signature--what does it all mean?!

I dont see Prince challenging himself as a musician most of the time. Some albums seem to be made with great care and passion, like Lotus Flow3r, but most of them (MPLSound, 20Ten, 3121, etc) sounds that he is paying tribute to his 80s work or trying to follow trends (like on Incense and Candles, for example).

Ironically, one of the few songs that I felt that Prince was doing something different is controversial among fans (Te amo Corazon). Very interesting to hear Prince doing a ballad with bossa nova-like beat and chords.

I miss the long songs too. Always loved when Prince jammed with himself (´I wanna be your lover´, ´I m yours´) or with the band.

GustavoRibas said:

I dont see Prince challenging himself as a musician most of the time. Some albums seem to be made with great care and passion, like Lotus Flow3r, but most of them (MPLSound, 20Ten, 3121, etc) sounds that he is paying tribute to his 80s work or trying to follow trends (like on Incense and Candles, for example).

Ironically, one of the few songs that I felt that Prince was doing something different is controversial among fans (Te amo Corazon). Very interesting to hear Prince doing a ballad with bossa nova-like beat and chords.

I miss the long songs too. Always loved when Prince jammed with himself (´I wanna be your lover´, ´I m yours´) or with the band.

I agree that, whether you like the 3 disc release of Lotusflower, that the title CD was made with care and concern (don't know about passion), whereas 20Ten seems thrown together IMO. And I thought it sounded unfinished with abbreviated songs--and apparently that is the case, since he subsequently stated that he will release a 20Ten Deluxe edition that most probably won't see the light of day... But we'll see... I would love to hear the exended versions of Act of God and Laydown!

Let me start by saying that I am happy he still releases new records regularly, whether I like 'em or not. At least he still tries to gve us some new tracks every once in a while.

Personally I thought 20Ten was a good step in the right direction. It is Prince making Prince music, and not trying to emulate his youth heroes.

Things that are missing IMO are "adventure", the weirdness that made lots of his eighties tracks so cool.

"Good production" is another one. I do like the general production of 20Ten, much better than lots of the '00 Prince albums, but I feel it could have sounded bigger, for the lack of a better word. The drumsound was way to dry on 20Ten, although I do appreciate the use of the Linndrum it could have sounded much better with a bit more work.

"Inspired lyrics" is the next. I don't listen to lyrics initially when judging music, but in the long run I wil notice them. I feel Prince's lyrics are not up to the standard he was having back in the days.

"Urgency" is the last thing I miss. His music used to have a certain urgency, I seldom hear that urgency anymore on record.

Last thing i want to say about this subject is that I think he should not randomly start writing tunes while fiddling around on one of his instruments, and then see into what form they will unfold themselves. I have the feeling that that is how most of his tracks came into being in the last 10 years or so.

I sometimes think the term "too quickly satisfied" is applicable: he settles with the first idea that pops up playing in his studio and builds that into a new track. I feel he should start being a bit more critical towards that first idea, and maybe dig a bit deeper until something with more urgency comes up.

He could for example start by saying to himself "And now I'm gonna write the funkiest track mankind has ever heard!". And then work on it until it really is the funkiest track ever!!!