First an observation, then a question.

Prince has always incorporated what "serious musicians" refer to as "avante garde leanings". I mean in musical terms, things like chord clusters, dissonance, even musical nods to his own past - that kind of thing is common in the avante garde of various forms of music, particularly jazz and classical.

So my question is, with so many avante garde snatches in his music, do you think he appreciates or has at least even listened to people like:

Frank Zappa, Igor Stravisnky, John Zorn, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Herbie Hancock, etc?

I can definitely hear these influences, or what would appear to be these influences, in things like Kamasutra (parts of it are Frank Zappa classical-lite) and The Rainbow Children (again Frank Zappa in the guitar and band unisons) and Madhouse (reminiscent of some John Zorn) and his latest Xpectation (this time Herbie Hancock and a little Miles Davis).

Somehow, I get the feeling Prince really doesn't spend a lot of time listening to other people's music, at least not since he was much younger. He may have in his formative musical years, but ever since his career took off, he has been so consumed in his own musical world that very little else gets in.

This is evidenced in the Rave DVD when he even declares himself, in the "innerviews", "Usually the other band members hip me to new music".

I get the feeling he doesn't actively search out new stuff to hear, or if he does, it isn't something he does a lot of because most of the time he is composing and creating his own legacy, not listening to others'. I feel like maybe at some point in his life he may have heard a fair bit of avante garde, "out-there" music, and took what he needed, but most of his "out-there-ness" is truly his own musical eccentricity.

Your thoughts?

I don't know if he's listened to all those particular artists you listed, but he's definitely cognizant of Coltrane and Herbie. At one time he even marveled at how much Coltrane reportedly woodsheded with the saxophone. One thing you have to remember; Prince's father was a jazz musician, so he had to have been exposed to jazz music in general at least at some point during his upbringing. I'm sure others he works with do bring other performers to his attention, but I don't believe that he doesn't listen to things on his own.

And since Hancock was a Miles affiliation, plus the fact that Herbie has covered at least one Prince song on record, I'd bet he has listened to some of Herbie's music too. I don't believe that Prince lives in a musical vacuum of his own making and only listens to what his bandmates bring to his attention. Being a musician it's natural that you already have a curious ear to what others are creating.

Okay, thanks for your opinion. That pretty much answers my question!

Well this topic obviously got people's juices flowing.

This is a fabulous post - as I have always considered Prince "Avant Garde" - in fact 1999 was "New Wave" funk to me and thus a revalation. I think Prince is aware of alot artists and may even own music by them. I posted on Housequake on how I thought a Laswell - Bootsy - Prince collaboration would be heavenly. There has always been evidence of Prince's deep excursions and I wish more of his experimental works would appear. Sun Ra, Prince, Sonny Sharrock, Bootsy Collins, La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Kraftwerk - you are talkin' my language.

No, this is a good topic. I hear all those influences too.

Didn't Prince play Chameleon live one time too?

I'm sure he does listen to music quite a bit. He's a big Stevie fan isn't he?

I heard Prince say a couple times (in some interviews) that if he wants to hear new music, he'll write his own. Hmm? But obviously, he's does get hip to new musicians somehow, but how?

In a recent Greg Boyer interview - Boyer says that Prince just oozes music all of the time...I Love it!

Jasziah said:

Prince coming right out and telling us what he's listening to is like a DJ telling you what old school vinyl he's sampling and looping in the mix. Or a chef tellin you what that secret ingredient is that gives their dish that special edge. It's trade secrets. They not gonna tell.

In the past he has indicated some of who he listens to; that and the fact that his music is conversant with many of the folks named in this initial post is enough to suggest that he does indeed pay attention to what's out there and is not as isolationist as he may like for us to assume.

He may not go to the record store himself (in fact I remember Femi or Takumi mentioning that he'd often send them with a CD shopping list), but he's checkin folks.

CHECKIN THE EDIT.
[This message was edited Fri Jan 31 15:27:00 PST 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

sawatdiikhrap said:

Are you shittin' me? I would love to hear this if it happened.

nunatak said:

Cool! I knew this thread would get some interesting responses eventually! Thanks people!

I'd love to hear him play "Chameleon" live, too.

I used to play that song in a jazz band. Hell, what jazz band hasn't played that song?