It seems like when he re-signed with WB for the big money, it was because they wouldn't give him the master tapes and settled for the big payday . If WB had agreed at the time to re-sign but in '99 would be guaranteed the masters, I wonder if he would've stayed with them.

But has he ever said anything about regretting taking the money and staying with them?

I don't think it's intelligent to speculate about the motivations of the re-negotiation of his contract. Artist renegotiate all the time for different reasons. At the time, Prince just came off 3 successful albums (albeit 2 more successful than the third and a failure movie attached to one as well).

dalsh327 said:

It seems like when he re-signed with WB for the big money, it was because they wouldn't give him the master tapes and settled for the big payday . If WB had agreed at the time to re-sign but in '99 would be guaranteed the masters, I wonder if he would've stayed with them.

But has he ever said anything about regretting taking the money and staying with them?

Are you talking about the contract in 1992ish?

He really didn't get a lot of money from it. The reason it seemed s large was because he would receive $10 million in adavnce BUT only if the last album sold 5 million. How albums sold 5 million?

dalsh327 said:

It seems like when he re-signed with WB for the big money, it was because they wouldn't give him the master tapes and settled for the big payday . If WB had agreed at the time to re-sign but in '99 would be guaranteed the masters, I wonder if he would've stayed with them.

But has he ever said anything about regretting taking the money and staying with them?

I'm hopeful eventually we will see sooner than you think a full fledged partnership reunion between WB and P with his entire catalog of his warner cds/videos...available to public.

Once you start pushing 10 years down the road than you get in a gray area where you can't predict what Prince's fan base will be and what they are willing to spend?? Its advantageous for both Warners and Prince to capitalize soon and get it $$$ while he's hot and marketable to his fans!!

violetskye said:

dalsh327 said:

It seems like when he re-signed with WB for the big money, it was because they wouldn't give him the master tapes and settled for the big payday . If WB had agreed at the time to re-sign but in '99 would be guaranteed the masters, I wonder if he would've stayed with them.

But has he ever said anything about regretting taking the money and staying with them?

I'm hopeful eventually we will see sooner than you think a full fledged partnership reunion between WB and P with his entire catalog of his warner cds/videos...available to public.

Once you start pushing 10 years down the road than you get in a gray area where you can't predict what Prince's fan base will be and what they are willing to spend?? Its advantageous for both Warners and Prince to capitalize soon and get it $$$ while he's hot and marketable to his fans!!

We're coming on 15 years now.

violetskye said:

Once you start pushing 10 years down the road than you get in a gray area where you can't predict what Prince's fan base will be and what they are willing to spend?? Its advantageous for both Warners and Prince to capitalize soon and get it $$$ while he's hot and marketable to his fans!!

He's always marketable to the fans, it's the casual listener that needs to be struck while the iron's hot.

dalsh327 said:

It seems like when he re-signed with WB for the big money, it was because they wouldn't give him the master tapes and settled for the big payday . If WB had agreed at the time to re-sign but in '99 would be guaranteed the masters, I wonder if he would've stayed with them.

But has he ever said anything about regretting taking the money and staying with them?

The Artist wore SLAVE on his face.

sro100 said:

dalsh327 said:

It seems like when he re-signed with WB for the big money, it was because they wouldn't give him the master tapes and settled for the big payday . If WB had agreed at the time to re-sign but in '99 would be guaranteed the masters, I wonder if he would've stayed with them.

But has he ever said anything about regretting taking the money and staying with them?

The Artist wore SLAVE on his face.

That's making a statement while he was under contract with them, but after he left WB, had he ever actually said "I made a mistake" or something along those lines regarding the re-signing? The only thing I got was Mo and Lenny had moved on to run Dreamworks and Prince started dealing with "the liquor company owner" as Courtney Love had described them (and I'm pretty sure P read what she wrote).

Edgar Bronfman Jr (daddy's money? anyone?) is the man who can sign the paper and give Prince his master tapes if he wanted to. Simple as that. I'm not anti WB or anything, they've provided a lot of my entertainment from my favorite artists (and their subsidaries...Reprise in particular had some gems). I get my Joni, Neil, and Van the Man fix thanks to them, and turn to Fleetwood Mac for that comfort food listening. Without them, who knows what we'd be listening to. And I think it's great the 100K plus boxes stashed around the world are going to be cracked open, digitalized, and get to see all sorts of things for future reissues that were long forgotten.

For a junkie, she's still pretty sharp when it comes to speeches. This was about 10 years ago, and little has changed since she said it except record companies are happy with the money that's coming in via other sources. And oh yeah, the lawsuits, too.

http://www.salon.com/tech...06/14/love

Junior has nothing to gain from Prince's back catalog to hold on to it. They've got "Purple Rain" on Blu-Ray. Just need to give P the rights to the "Batman" soundtrack because that might be the only red tape P will have as far as they go in his back catalog. There's only one guy (maybe 2) who would prob. be able to wheel and deal P getting control over that though - Tim Burton & Danny Elfman.

dalsh327 said:

Edgar Bronfman Jr (daddy's money? anyone?) is the man who can sign the paper and give Prince his master tapes if he wanted to. Simple as that.

Junior has nothing to gain from Prince's back catalog to hold on to it.

I might be over-simplifying, but I'm sure WB still make money out of Prince's Masters. Every time a WB/Prince track is played, they get a slice.

Today's music consumer might find Prince irrelevant, but he is still part of modern culture and his back catalogue is still played and still earns WB money.

When all is said and done, Prince and WB will work together again.

.

[Edited 11/14/10 16:37pm]

Tremolina said:

When all is said and done, Prince and WB will work together again.

.

[Edited 11/14/10 16:37pm]

...

How do you estimate that?

EmbattledWarrior said:

Tremolina said:

When all is said and done, Prince and WB will work together again.

.

[Edited 11/14/10 16:37pm]

...

How do you estimate that?

They need eachother.

You would think that's not the case anymore once Prince gets "his masters back", but Prince is not the only one who can claim copyright, plus he doesn't have the resources to re-release remasters of his back catalogue all on his own. There are bandmembers who can claim a stake in some of his 80's recordings too and there is also such a thing as the copyright of the artwork on his albums, neither of which he owns. In the latest interviews he makes it seem tho', that he and only he will get any and all copyrights back from WB, even after 30 years instead of 35. This could be conjencture on his part, but in any case it tells me they probably made a deal before the legal shit would hit the fan in 2013. The deal? Just an educated guess: Prince will get all the rights to his albums, remaster packages will be released, but WB will get the distribution rights for years to come.

Tremolina said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

...

How do you estimate that?

They need eachother.

You would think that's not the case anymore once Prince gets "his masters back", but Prince is not the only one who can claim copyright, plus he doesn't have the resources to re-release remasters of his back catalogue all on his own. There are bandmembers who can claim a stake in some of his 80's recordings too and there is also such a thing as the copyright of the artwork on his albums, neither of which he owns. In the latest interviews he makes it seem tho', that he and only he will get any and all copyrights back from WB, even after 30 years instead of 35. This could be conjencture on his part, but in any case it tells me they probably made a deal before the legal shit would hit the fan in 2013. The deal? Just an educated guess: Prince will get all the rights to his albums, remaster packages will be released, but WB will get the distribution rights for years to come.

...

It was never about copyright's

Prince retains all his copyrights under his publishing companies, Both Controversy Music and Emancipation

Warner's has no stake in that...

Copyright's and mechanical recordings (masters) are two entirely different revenue streams...

Prince will never work with Warner Bros because he refuses to sign a 360 deal with anyone.

And thats the new law of the land.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Tremolina said:

They need eachother.

You would think that's not the case anymore once Prince gets "his masters back", but Prince is not the only one who can claim copyright, plus he doesn't have the resources to re-release remasters of his back catalogue all on his own. There are bandmembers who can claim a stake in some of his 80's recordings too and there is also such a thing as the copyright of the artwork on his albums, neither of which he owns. In the latest interviews he makes it seem tho', that he and only he will get any and all copyrights back from WB, even after 30 years instead of 35. This could be conjencture on his part, but in any case it tells me they probably made a deal before the legal shit would hit the fan in 2013. The deal? Just an educated guess: Prince will get all the rights to his albums, remaster packages will be released, but WB will get the distribution rights for years to come.

...

It was never about copyright's

Prince retains all his copyrights under his publishing companies, Both Controversy Music and Emancipation

Warner's has no stake in that...

Copyright's and mechanical recordings (masters) are two entirely different revenue streams...

Prince will never work with Warner Bros because he refuses to sign a 360 deal with anyone.

And thats the new law of the land.

I am very sorry to say this to you embattledwarrior and I don't mean to offend you, but you do not get it. Please don't try to school me, because I could school you for weeks on copyright law. It has always been about copyrights and 'mechanical rights' are not the same as the rights to the masters. 'Mechanical rights' are part of his publishing rights. Prince and WB plus everybody else in here is talking about the rights to the sound recordings, "the masters", the rights the record company WB deals with. Those are NOT the same as 'mechanical rights'.

--

[Edited 11/15/10 15:47pm]

And mark my words:

When all is said and done, Prince and WB will work together again.

I do assume of course that you have read what Prince has said about this in his latest interviews.

Tremolina said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

...

It was never about copyright's

Prince retains all his copyrights under his publishing companies, Both Controversy Music and Emancipation

Warner's has no stake in that...

Copyright's and mechanical recordings (masters) are two entirely different revenue streams...

Prince will never work with Warner Bros because he refuses to sign a 360 deal with anyone.

And thats the new law of the land.

I am very sorry to say this to you embattledwarrior and I don't mean to offend you, but you do not get it. Please don't try to school me, because I could school you for weeks on copyright law. It has always been about copyrights and 'mechanical rights' are not the same as the rights to the masters. 'Mechanical rights' are part of his publishing rights. Prince and WB plus everybody else in here is talking about the rights to the sound recordings, "the masters", the rights the record company WB deals with. Those are NOT the same as 'mechanical rights'.

--

[Edited 11/15/10 15:47pm]

No they're not,

You need more schooling

And Prince won't work with Warner Bros beyond a distribution relationship.

They're not really 'his' publishing companies.. not when you see "Olive Warner" and "Controversy Music" owning one of the older songs, and it's "care of" Universal. I'm pretty sure his percentage is bigger, enough to be the approving authority over someone covering his songs, or denying them.

"Warner Bros Records"? For all we know, this is an empty building that forwards its calls to Universal. and I can tell you that WB Records "official" office is in Burbank, and the publishing for Prince's music is in Santa Monica. And I'd guess that the office in Santa Monica also has a "Warner Brothers Records" office somewhere in that building.

The recording industry was extremely slow in embracing digital recordings, and the new ways of how digital licensing were handled, and a lot of artists are also to blame in this. As of today, The Beatles have finally given consent to having their catalog available on... Apple. A company they've gone to court and sued in the past.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Tremolina said:

I am very sorry to say this to you embattledwarrior and I don't mean to offend you, but you do not get it. Please don't try to school me, because I could school you for weeks on copyright law. It has always been about copyrights and 'mechanical rights' are not the same as the rights to the masters. 'Mechanical rights' are part of his publishing rights. Prince and WB plus everybody else in here is talking about the rights to the sound recordings, "the masters", the rights the record company WB deals with. Those are NOT the same as 'mechanical rights'.

--

[Edited 11/15/10 15:47pm]

No they're not,

You need more schooling

And Prince won't work with Warner Bros beyond a distribution relationship.

geez, it's always the same

here boy, this is the first hit on google when you search for mechanical rights:

"Mechanical rights, although similar, are not to be confused with "master rights" or ..."

http://www.worldwideocr.c...al_FAQ.asp

Now hide your head in shame and go away

-

[Edited 11/16/10 0:35am]

dalsh327 said:

They're not really 'his' publishing companies.. not when you see "Olive Warner" and "Controversy Music" owning one of the older songs, and it's "care of" Universal. I'm pretty sure his percentage is bigger, enough to be the approving authority over someone covering his songs, or denying them.

"Warner Bros Records"? For all we know, this is an empty building that forwards its calls to Universal. and I can tell you that WB Records "official" office is in Burbank, and the publishing for Prince's music is in Santa Monica. And I'd guess that the office in Santa Monica also has a "Warner Brothers Records" office somewhere in that building.

The recording industry was extremely slow in embracing digital recordings, and the new ways of how digital licensing were handled, and a lot of artists are also to blame in this. As of today, The Beatles have finally given consent to having their catalog available on... Apple. A company they've gone to court and sued in the past.

It's pretty obvious you guys don't understand the division lines between publishing and recordings.

GENERALLY, Publishing is retained by the copyright holder, or the person who files for it.

When you join a publishing company basically your making a 50/50 split deal with a publishing company, which pretty much gives them the deed to your publishing and find different ways to make money off of it and you split it 50/50 performance royalties etc...

Publishing in music is a split between lyrics and composition.

To avoid the 50/50 split

An artist can set-up his/her own publishing company and join ascap or BMI, its pretty simple.

Ascap will monitor how much your music is used or performed etc and will send you a check etc...

Controversy Music, I believe is affiliated with Universal Music Group, which most likely means they administer Prince's publishing, BUT DO NOT OWN IT!

He pretty much did they same thing Under Emancipated music, which is administered also universal.

Basically prince' pays universal a fee for administering his publishing without giving them sole control of his publishing.

Warner Bros, is not affiliated with Universal Music Group (they kinda are now, because I believed they where swallowed by universal)

Essentially the publisher licenses the songs out to the Record Company.

This license forces the record company to pay Mechanicals for the publishing

Mechanicals are part of the deal with the record company, not necessarily the rights

Master Licenses, are designated by the owner of the master's, under traditional circumstances it's

usually the record company since the artist under contractual obligation must submit the masters to them.

Ownership of master's pretty much is for t.v, movie, licensing, commercials, of the actual physical recording. The publisher still must be paid performance royalties etc... for song usage.

But the bulk of the master revenue goes to the owner.

This can get lucrative, when you reissue records and remaster them, greatest hits etc...

When Prince first signed to warners, it was pretty landmark, because he was allowed to own the masters of his first three records. These three recordings are what WB wanted back during the 1991 deal. It gets pretty complicated after that...

But regardless it's important to understand that Prince's dispute with warners was not about Copyright or publishing.

It was about the trademark of his name, it was about WB gunning for the masters he owned, it was about him gunning for the masters he didn't. It was also about the Record Advance system and many many other things.

WB might've wanted Prince's publishing as well, I'm not certain on that level, but I wouldn't doubt it.

Prince owns all his publishing.

Tremolina said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

No they're not,

You need more schooling

And Prince won't work with Warner Bros beyond a distribution relationship.

geez, it's always the same

here boy, this is the first hit on google when you search for mechanical rights:

"Mechanical rights, although similar, are not to be confused with "master rights" or ..."

http://www.worldwideocr.c...al_FAQ.asp

Now hide your head in shame and go away

-

[Edited 11/16/10 0:35am]

look up buddy boy

EmbattledWarrior said:

Tremolina said:

geez, it's always the same

here boy, this is the first hit on google when you search for mechanical rights:

"Mechanical rights, although similar, are not to be confused with "master rights" or ..."

http://www.worldwideocr.c...al_FAQ.asp

Now hide your head in shame and go away

-

[Edited 11/16/10 0:35am]

look up buddy boy

Lawd you are a fool....

EmbattledWarrior said:

When Prince first signed to warners, it was pretty landmark, because he was allowed to own the masters of his first three records. These three recordings are what WB wanted back during the 1991 deal. It gets pretty complicated after that...

Do you have more shit like to pull out of your ass?

But regardless it's important to understand that Prince's dispute with warners was not about Copyright or publishing.

Good lord.

It was 1) about owning the masters, 2) about his prolific output "saturating the market", 3) about creative control and last but not least 4) about money.

Owning the masters = owning the copyright in the sound recording.

Owning the publishing rights = owning the copyright in the underlying composition of the song and the lyrics.

These are two distinct copyrights, but it's ALL copyright.

I, nor anybody else in here is talking about his publishing rights. You are the only fool who does.

It was about the trademark of his name, it was about WB gunning for the masters he owned, it was about him gunning for the masters he didn't. It was also about the Record Advance system and many many other things.

WB might've wanted Prince's publishing as well, I'm not certain on that level, but I wouldn't doubt it.

IOW Don't talk shit when you don't know what you are talking about.

Prince owns all his publishing.

well duh

prince regretting taking excessive amounts of money from someone? anyone? hmm

Tremolina said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

look up buddy boy

Lawd you are a fool....

seriously dude what is your problem?

Have I insulted you somehow, what is with all the hostility?

All you do is use profanity and insult me, and add nothing of substance to the argument.

Why don't you pull your head out of your self righteous ass, and get a life dude.

I already know all the shit you've stated. YOU WERE JUST NOT SPECIFIC IN YOUR INITIAL POST.

But I'm pretty much done here,

I don't partake in flaming...

Have a good day.

EmbattledWarrior said:

Tremolina said:

Lawd you are a fool....

seriously dude what is your problem?

Have I insulted you somehow, what is with all the hostility?

Seriously dude, now you come with an 180.

I first aproached you very carefully and respectfully in reply to your ill conceived post. I even advised you not to try and school me, because I could see you coming already.

But you are so arrogant and ignorant that you STILL made the mistake to ignore that and school me anyhow with a lot of made up bullshit.

Have you figured it out yet why owning 'mechanical rights' is NOT the same as 'owning the masters'?

EmbattledWarrior said:

When Prince first signed to warners, it was pretty landmark, because he was allowed to own the masters of his first three records. These three recordings are what WB wanted back during the 1991 deal. It gets pretty complicated after that...

Care to back that up?