Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

Great thread, would read again, A+

NouveauDance said:

Great thread, would read again, A+

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

Well that didn't take long!

Give examples.

I certainly don't do that, and i don't think anyone critical of the last few years work do either. I did express my like for 20Ten generally, but for the most part yeah i dislike the direction he's gone in.

BTW, i'd rather read people that ARE critical of him where it's warranted. These balanced people tend to be more intelligent in their posts, and are nearly always literate.

I hate gushers and fawners threads and posts for the opposite reasons.

.

[Edited 10/3/10 2:43am]

Marrk said:

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

Well that didn't take long!

Give examples.

I certainly don't do that, and i don't think anyone critical of the last few years work do either. I did express my like for 20Ten generally, but for the most part yeah i dislike the direction he's gone in.

BTW, i'd rather read people that ARE critical of him where it's warranted. These balanced people tend to be more intelligent in their posts, and are nearly always literate.

I hate gushers and fawners threads and posts for the opposite reasons.

.

[Edited 10/3/10 2:43am]

SOME people are just selfish, if P doesnt give them what they "want", or expect...then its "off with his head", I am wise enuf to know the man knows wtf he is doing, let me take each and every ride with him, he will take me on the scenic route...he hasn't disappointed me yet. gushing and fawning is real passion...might u be happier if we hated on him? thats so passive-aggresive...but u can't win here on the org, so I say..if u cant join 'em, beat 'em!

THANK YOU!

there might be many reasons, i figure they're entitled to say what they feel, whether i agree with them or not

lotusboy said:

Marrk said:

Well that didn't take long!

Give examples.

I certainly don't do that, and i don't think anyone critical of the last few years work do either. I did express my like for 20Ten generally, but for the most part yeah i dislike the direction he's gone in.

BTW, i'd rather read people that ARE critical of him where it's warranted. These balanced people tend to be more intelligent in their posts, and are nearly always literate.

I hate gushers and fawners threads and posts for the opposite reasons.

.

[Edited 10/3/10 2:43am]

SOME people are just selfish, if P doesnt give them what they "want", or expect...then its "off with his head", I am wise enuf to know the man knows wtf he is doing, let me take each and every ride with him, he will take me on the scenic route...he hasn't disappointed me yet. gushing and fawning is real passion...might u be happier if we hated on him? thats so passive-aggresive...but u can't win here on the org, so I say..if u cant join 'em, beat 'em!

No i don't ever attack anyone who wants to act like they love him unconditionally. That's their right, but i don't take their views seriously either. I just can't. If they approve of absolutely every thing he's done, well to me, that's just troubling and a bit unsettling.

Even Prince shows disdain for some of his own work from time to time.

He has lost it, but his newer material isn't exactly garbage per se...it'ts just not as good as his older material. He seems to have given up.

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

'True fan' does not equal 'ass licker'.

Being objective and critical when needed is good for mental health.

Why shouldn't I call a spade a spade?

I know this site has a fantastic Prince-focused FAQ, but maybe we need an Org-focused FAQ as well (apologies if we do - I have vague recollections of such but can't find it now).

DMSRdove seems fairly new (at least in terms of membership/posting), and I can understand the question because I used to wonder the same thing.

After reading and interacting for a while I've come to understand the mentality a bit more and, though I still don't believe it's a particularly constructive approach (speaking here about blatant negativity as opposed to discerning criticism), I'm learning to just tune it out and let everyone do their thing.

If your question is a literal one (ie. you genuinely want to know), I'd suggest that the answers, though broad, mostly stem from the notion that one can be a "true fan" so to speak if they absolutely dig Prince's older material, regardless of what opinion they have of him as a person, or of his music/actions now.

The common counter-argument to this is that a "true fan" sticks with an artist no matter what. An extension to this would be that a "true fan" loves the artist themselves, not just their music (I've never seen this argued directly, but is more implied by the "he can do no wrong" defence).

What a "true fan" is therefore is entirely subjective, which means that questions like this tend to just go around and around, much like the threads in the P&R forum.

If your question implies a judgement of people for being negative towards Prince despite claiming to be fans (even only by virtue of posting on a fan site), unfortunately your post here is not really going to help, as threads like this tend to act as a magnet for exactly the type of poster that you've got an issue with.

Bottom line - have fun here, play your way, let others play their way and you'll enjoy yourself a lot more than spending your time trying to change other people.

Now, if I could just remember that for myself...

I don't call those 'no matter whats' true fans, but true idiots.

I can only value the MUSIC itself and only if it's really good.

From what I've read, I think Prince is one of the most despicable persons I've read about. If I had to like HIM to be a true fan I should've spent the last 24 years doing anything else.

For many years I thought the man was despicable but that didn't prevent me from enjoying his music. That music was absolutely great.

Nowadays I think he's become an even more despicable person AND his music has turned nearly unbearable for me.

Still I consider myself a 'true fan' because I've been following his work during half of my life and even if i hate virtually anything he put out since TRC I'm still here, there and everywhere because boots from the good ole days keep on surfacing in much improved quality.

He's not my friend, brother, lover or 'idol'. He's just a musician I used to like. Why should I smell his farts, like all those 'no matter whats' that most probably weren't even born the day I jumped on the pruple wagon?

Many people need to grow up a bit or at least stop claiming the rest of us should be as much retarded as they are.

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

I think it's for a number of reasons. Not in any particular order.

It's normally a sport thing. Football club opposing teams hate each other or the competitor club. That kind of fan hate is about winning and losing. When it comes down to Prince in this light, some fans think that Prince has made them lose. Either in terms of money or in music of his they own.

Secondly, on the board we have Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Buddhist, Zen or other beliefs. Most people with some aspect of belief in any religion/God/good/evil etc believe that people shouldn't be judged but forgiven and accepted for and with their faults. Atheists, complete non-believers or agnosts, believe people should be judged. So religious beliefs influence opinions too.

Another reason is, although this is a Prince site, it's not linked to him directly. This place has members who have been coming here for years and spend a lot of time here. It's like their local pub where they can hang out and share all their good and bad moods. So it's not always about Prince really. Even though the name brought them here, old members feel like "owners" of the site, therefore feel they have utter and complete free reign.

The word fanatic in the Cambridge dictionary means " a person whose strong admiration for something is considered to be extreme or unreasonable" - Based on this meaning "the haters" are avoiding being a "fantatic" because they also don't want to be considered extreme or unreasonable. Prince also once said "apparently" he doesn't like fanatics so in that way they can please him. I don't know what you call "being extreme and unreasonable over something you don't have a strong admiration for" though.

Finally, as Prince has been such a changing character over the years and because he is so versatile in the music he can make, it attracts music lovers from all walks of life. Then you kind of come back to the sport team fan thing again. One music club doesn't like another. At least that's what I think.

Anyway, welcome to the club DSMRdove.

Bohemian67 said:

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

I think it's for a number of reasons. Not in any particular order.

It's normally a sport thing. Football club opposing teams hate each other or the competitor club. That kind of fan hate is about winning and losing. When it comes down to Prince in this light, some fans think that Prince has made them lose. Either in terms of money or in music of his they own.

Secondly, on the board we have Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Buddhist, Zen or other beliefs. Most people with some aspect of belief in any religion/God/good/evil etc believe that people shouldn't be judged but forgiven and accepted for and with their faults. Atheists, complete non-believers or agnosts, believe people should be judged. So religious beliefs influence opinions too.

I can't even take you seriously beyond this point. Stop filling people's heads with poison and misinformation and get your shit together.

What did he lose? I didn't even know he was looking for anything except maybe the ladder, but then again, everybody's looking for the ladder

Bohemian67 said:

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

I think it's for a number of reasons. Not in any particular order.

It's normally a sport thing. Football club opposing teams hate each other or the competitor club. That kind of fan hate is about winning and losing. When it comes down to Prince in this light, some fans think that Prince has made them lose. Either in terms of money or in music of his they own.

Secondly, on the board we have Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Buddhist, Zen or other beliefs. Most people with some aspect of belief in any religion/God/good/evil etc believe that people shouldn't be judged but forgiven and accepted for and with their faults. Atheists, complete non-believers or agnosts, believe people should be judged. So religious beliefs influence opinions too.

This is not true.

Well here is my 2cents never bad mouth big p ever at all he is evolving into something beautiful and I like it not everyone else may like it and that's cool but I do and always will, he will always have me 4 a fan always!

Because being a true fan doesn't mean you're blind, deaf, and/or an asskisser. Not everything Prince touches turns to gold, or is anywhere close to being a hit, radio friendly, or something that the general listener is going to be interested in. It means you have a brain, an opinion, and Kaunas to say so. Prince's biggest problem has always been having too many yes men around him. He doesn't need yes-fans as well. We are his only real voice and feedback of true reason, balance, and critique.

ernestsewell said:

Because being a true fan doesn't mean you're blind, deaf, and/or an asskisser. Not everything Prince touches turns to gold, or is anywhere close to being a hit, radio friendly, or something that the general listener is going to be interested in. It means you have a brain, an opinion, and Kaunas to say so. Prince's biggest problem has always been having too many yes men around him. He doesn't need yes-fans as well. We are his only real voice and feedback of true reason, balance, and critique.

It's evident he doesn't appreciate it either.

Bottom line is we ALL care.

ANSWER:

i think it has to do with how long prince put out truly great music. there was so much good stuff that people really just plain fell in love .. became "true fans". then when prince started drinking, too much and his work hit the crapper it was hard for those hardcore fans to simply let go. its like if ur kid starts drinkin and looses his or her job fucks up their marriage etc... u still have unconditional love for them but you would be a shitty parent, brother sister, friend to just keep giving them money to live off of and telling them that they are making GOOD choices.

if prince only wrote one good song and then hit the post WB era those people wouldnt care as much .. hed be a one hit wonder .. of course u have to acknowledge that the only reason prince isnt working a non musical day job is because so many people became true fans and did a lot of the work for him .. buying everything he put out and then some ... spreading the word .. making the man rich ... after all that work and dedication it becomes a let down when the guy whom everyone touted as the next amadeus, as the best of the best, the most mind blowing musician of all time, goes and drops cd after cd that is literally so bad that most people cant even listen to it twice. i mean there are songs its hard to get thru the first time ... its like campaigning for barack obama and then u find out he re approved the use of torture ... kinda pisses off those true barack supporters who did all that work for him

prince used to be very controversial .. a beacon of light for those who were ostracized or had sexual identity issues or were being discriminated against .. a TRUE prince fan took a leap of faith because more likely than not a TRUE prince fan took a lot of shit for being a prince fan. after all that it is a true let down to hear yet another song about prince money and other shallow meaningless issues and it gets worse when the music sounds sterile and canned. and so u get the conflict between those who love everything prince does because they still think hes sexy and they think the music is just fine .. and those who went thru thick and thin with prince and his very controversial and oft appearing wacked out views, still supported him and spread the word and tried to explain to the world how prince was really right on .. and then prince gives us canned drivel ... so who is the true prince fan? i think we are all true prince fans its just some of us know lazy music when we hear it and each person contemplates with each record if supporting that as worthwhile anymore.

Perhaps I worded myself wrong; I am new and this forum was merely an attempt for me to interact more with this website, to have an engaging discussion about Prince. I'm not really familiar with how these things work so bare with me please and don't be rude because I surely wasn't rude to you.

Anyways,

I agree that being a true fan doesn't entail "ass-kissing". He's a human being, not the ruler of the world, and if he does something we don't enjoy it's fine to say it.

I just feel that as a true fan, it's good to understand that Prince is going to try other avenues with his work. That goes for the people who claim his newer material isn't him and that he's "lost it" (that referring to either his talent or mind, haha, no one really specified that much).

That's pretty much all I was getting at.

I didn't mean for this forum to spiral into a definition of what a true fan truly is and what not, though it is interesting to hear all of your opinions. People truly are entitled to say or feel whatever they please, I agree.

But I just thought I'd explain myself so people didn't misconstrue what I meant.

Hopefully what time I'll get a hang of this thing xD

Marrk said:

Bottom line is we ALL care.

That's an important point that sometimes gets forgotten/lost in the fray.

"The opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference." - Elie Wiesel

That said, I do believe that a group as strong (in numbers and activity) as the org has the power to have a very real impact on Prince, whether you see it in terms of morale, energy, etc... and whilst "yes men" may not be useful, a fairly consistent stream of criticism, particularly when worded as harshly as it often is on this site, isn't constructive either.

Perhaps it's just the rehashing of the same topics over and over again that causes the problem. Perhaps that's why the "no matter what" fans make more noise, in a way to compensate. And perhaps that creates a vicious cycle where the critics then come in to drown out those with the purple-coloured glasses, and so on.

Regardless, thanks for posting a reminder that everyone here cares - I think it's really worthwhile for everyone to remember that.

NouveauDance said:

DMSRdove said:

Perhaps I worded myself wrong; I am new and this forum was merely an attempt for me to interact more with this website, to have an engaging discussion about Prince. I'm not really familiar with how these things work so bare with me please and don't be rude because I surely wasn't rude to you.

Anyways,

I agree that being a true fan doesn't entail "ass-kissing". He's a human being, not the ruler of the world, and if he does something we don't enjoy it's fine to say it.

I just feel that as a true fan, it's good to understand that Prince is going to try other avenues with his work. That goes for the people who claim his newer material isn't him and that he's "lost it" (that referring to either his talent or mind, haha, no one really specified that much).

That's pretty much all I was getting at.

I didn't mean for this forum to spiral into a definition of what a true fan truly is and what not, though it is interesting to hear all of your opinions. People truly are entitled to say or feel whatever they please, I agree.

But I just thought I'd explain myself so people didn't misconstrue what I meant.

Hopefully what time I'll get a hang of this thing xD

You do not need to "get a hang of this thing," just say what you want to say, everyone else does, welcome to the org.

Maybe they just consider themselves "true fans" of his early work, or a certain era. Whatever. The people who claim that Prince is "done" or has "lost it" are no more or less annoying than the people who insist every track he's ever released is brilliant. My personal hope has always been that more people could look as his music objectively and fall somewhere in the middle of those two opinions. Some do, of course, but for whatever reason Prince has always elicited VERY strong reactions and opinions from a majority his fanbase.

ernestsewell said:

Because being a true fan doesn't mean you're blind, deaf, and/or an asskisser. Not everything Prince touches turns to gold, or is anywhere close to being a hit, radio friendly, or something that the general listener is going to be interested in. It means you have a brain, an opinion, and Kaunas to say so. Prince's biggest problem has always been having too many yes men around him. He doesn't need yes-fans as well. We are his only real voice and feedback of true reason, balance, and critique.

umm.."yes-fans" is a bit of an oxymoron. A fan is a fan is a fan...

anything else is..well, everyone is a critic. I WOULD SAY 99% of his music is highly acceptable. the 1% is still better than most others. I can only say this about a few other artists..very few.

What is healthy is a quote that speaks the truth, heres a sample; I love Prince's music, I AM A FAN..there are some songs I'm not entirely crazy about, but as a whole...I AM A FAN.

Thats healthy.

sorry but...Everything else is just baiting, critiquing and judging. save that for American Idol. please.

DMSRdove said:

Why do people call themselves true fans when they choose to claim that Prince has "lost it" and that his newer matierial is garbage?

I cannot speak for anyone who thinks P has 'lost it' but human beings are very opinionated and we judge everything and anything that crosses our mind. I have met a few people in my life who do not. I can honestly say that I like 98.7% of P's music. If I don't like it, I don't listen to it.

You're never gonna get the kind of answer you want from some people.

NPG4Life !!![img:$uid]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/113.gif[/img:$uid]

DMSRdove said:

so bare with me

I'm already naked...