I like hip hop and i like Prince. But most of the time i hate when Prince tries to mess with hip hop. It ruined a lot of his material in the 90's.

Hip hop could have been a driving force in Prince's music but it seems he really doesn't understand anything to hip hop.

I think he's often pretty good when he tries to rap but he invited some of the worse rappers ever (TC Ellis, Tony M...) to share the mic with him. Inviting legendary Doug E Fresh though the guy was totally outdated was not a smart move either. The only decent MC he ever worked with was Q-tip but he chose to invite him on one of his corniest songs. I guess he would'nt feel comfortable in the studio with the wu-tang clan type of rappers.

But the problem is not all about the vocals. The way he tries to incorporate samples, loops and turntable trickery in his music is even worse. He never invited a decent DJ to cut & scratch, he prefered using stupid samples such as police siren sounds (which is what every second zone producer trying to jump on the bandwagon do).

When i hear how great are collabs between Q-tip & Raphael Saadiq or The Roots & John Legend, i feel Prince still has something to do in this field.

trickykid59 said:

Prince has no idea how to involve himself with people who specialize in hip hop music who are on the same or similar level as him. That's why you never see him perform with The Roots or D'angelo or John Legend or Kanye West (regardless of anyone's opinions on Kanye), etc. He couldn't hang with people like that because their creativity is on the same level as Prince's when he was their age and it probably scares him. So he invites either subpar/shitty rappers (Scrap D, that white kid on Daisy Chain) or rappers who are past their prime and still do the same dated routine. The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

Even "Eve" sounds out of place in the songs he used her on.

Spinlight said:

Prince has no idea how to involve himself with people who specialize in hip hop music who are on the same or similar level as him. That's why you never see him perform with The Roots or D'angelo or John Legend or Kanye West (regardless of anyone's opinions on Kanye), etc. He couldn't hang with people like that because their creativity is on the same level as Prince's when he was their age and it probably scares him. So he invites either subpar/shitty rappers (Scrap D, that white kid on Daisy Chain) or rappers who are past their prime and still do the same dated routine. The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

Even "Eve" sounds out of place in the songs he used her on.

I worked in Hip Hop, Minneapolis starting in 1990 and knew both Tony and TC, actually working with TC on several projects. Prince is a 50 something Midwesterner who grew up listening to AM Radio, Minneapolis was a vanilla market when we got here so imagine what it was in 1972 When Prince started buying records. When Hip Hop started commercially Prince was not a record buyer he was a recording artist under contract too worried about his own sound. When in NY he was playing CBGB's not going to block parties to see what "might" be jumping off. Prince never respected Hip Hop, not in a dislike way but he never gave it anymore introspection than he would gave the many aborted side projects he started. TC and Tony are cool dudes, we used to roast the shit out of them when they came over to hang, they knew they couldn't rap. Remember when Dave chappell said powerful men are too busy to chase ass, they fuck who is near?. That was Prince and Rap. Tony, Damon and Kirk were extras who danced in PR, they were from North Minny and knew all of his peers and used to follow Prince to the bathroom at First Ave. TC Ellis was a peer, known Prince his whole life, that job he sings about in Raspberry Beret? TC's dad was Mr. McGee. Prince took the job cus he had a crush on TC's sis, he had no intention of working. Paisley Park never had an A&R person, i once told TC I'd go and find rappers for free and he laughed telling me it wasn't actually a record company.

[Edited 9/24/10 4:11am]

The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

I had forgotten about this. I need to listen to it again.

I worked in Hip Hop, Minneapolis starting in 1990 and knew both Tony and TC, actually working with TC on several projects. Prince is a 50 something Midwesterner who grew up listening to AM Radio, Minneapolis was a vanilla market when we got here so imagine what it was in 1972 When Prince started buying records. When Hip Hop started commercially Prince was not a record buyer he was a recording artist under contract too worried about his own sound. When in NY he was playing CBGB's not going to block parties to see what "might" be jumping off. Prince never respected Hip Hop, not in a dislike way but he never gave it anymore introspection than he would gave the many aborted side projects he started. TC and Tony are cool dudes, we used to roast the shit out of them when they came over to hang, they knew they couldn't rap. Remember when Dave chappell said powerful men are too busy to chase ass, they fuck who is near?. That was Prince and Rap. Tony, Damon and Kirk were extras who danced in PR, they were from North Minny and knew all of his peers and used to follow Prince to the bathroom at First Ave. TC Ellis was a peer, known Prince his whole life, that job he sings about in Raspberry Beret? TC's dad was Mr. McGee. Prince took the job cus he had a crush on TC's sis, he had no intention of working. Paisley Park never had an A&R person, i once told TC I'd go and find rappers for free and he laughed telling me it wasn't actually a record company.

Interesting read, thank you.

I am aware he never really was exposed to the culture. What i still don't understand is why he so often tried to mix hip hop to his music.

Wasn't TC Prince's bodyguard at one point ?

dreamshaman32 said:

Spinlight said:

Prince has no idea how to involve himself with people who specialize in hip hop music who are on the same or similar level as him. That's why you never see him perform with The Roots or D'angelo or John Legend or Kanye West (regardless of anyone's opinions on Kanye), etc. He couldn't hang with people like that because their creativity is on the same level as Prince's when he was their age and it probably scares him. So he invites either subpar/shitty rappers (Scrap D, that white kid on Daisy Chain) or rappers who are past their prime and still do the same dated routine. The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

Even "Eve" sounds out of place in the songs he used her on.

I worked in Hip Hop, Minneapolis starting in 1990 and knew both Tony and TC, actually working with TC on several projects. Prince is a 50 something Midwesterner who grew up listening to AM Radio, Minneapolis was a vanilla market when we got here so imagine what it was in 1972 When Prince started buying records. When Hip Hop started commercially Prince was not a record buyer he was a recording artist under contract too worried about his own sound. When in NY he was playing CBGB's not going to block parties to see what "might" be jumping off. Prince never respected Hip Hop, not in a dislike way but he never gave it anymore introspection than he would gave the many aborted side projects he started. TC and Tony are cool dudes, we used to roast the shit out of them when they came over to hang, they knew they couldn't rap. Remember when Dave chappell said powerful men are too busy to chase ass, they fuck who is near?. That was Prince and Rap. Tony, Damon and Kirk were extras who danced in PR, they were from North Minny and knew all of his peers and used to follow Prince to the bathroom at First Ave. TC Ellis was a peer, known Prince his whole life, that job he sings about in Raspberry Beret? TC's dad was Mr. McGee. Prince took the job cus he had a crush on TC's sis, he had no intention of working. Paisley Park never had an A&R person, i once told TC I'd go and find rappers for free and he laughed telling me it wasn't actually a record company.

[Edited 9/24/10 4:11am]

Wow. Thanks for that. All of that makes sense actually, especially about Prince not being a record buyer, but a recording artist. He was just doing something that everyone else was doing. It didn't work for him then and now going back to those songs they just sound incredibly dated.

[Edited 9/24/10 7:41am]

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

In 10 seconds, this thread will be destroyed by Vainandy... 9... 8... 7...

Prince has done hip-hop inspired material INCREDIBLY well.

Too easy to remember the not so good attempts, right?

For every "Jughead" there's a "Days Of Wild". For every "Gangsta Glam" there's a "Pussy Control" or "My Name Is Prince".

"Gett Off" alone slams harder than most hip-hop that was out at the same time.

I'm a diehard hip-hop fan and I love it when Prince does hip-hop inspired stuff.

The "Nasty Girl" remix of "Hot Wit U" drops like a MFer as well.

Militant said:

Prince has done hip-hop inspired material INCREDIBLY well.

Too easy to remember the not so good attempts, right?

For every "Jughead" there's a "Days Of Wild". For every "Gangsta Glam" there's a "Pussy Control" or "My Name Is Prince".

"Gett Off" alone slams harder than most hip-hop that was out at the same time.

I'm a diehard hip-hop fan and I love it when Prince does hip-hop inspired stuff.

The "Nasty Girl" remix of "Hot Wit U" drops like a MFer as well.

Agree, whether he sounds funny-souding or not, he did have some success with it. Plus you when Prince wants to do something different, he just kinda jumps into the mix instead of honing in the craft or project like he does with his own work.

Besides, I love Gett Off, Pussy Control, and 18 & Over

The most appropriate question(answer) for this thread would be then..."what are two things that should never be combined"?

Prince has done hip-hop inspired material INCREDIBLY well.

Too easy to remember the not so good attempts, right?

For every "Jughead" there's a "Days Of Wild". For every "Gangsta Glam" there's a "Pussy Control" or "My Name Is Prince".

"Gett Off" alone slams harder than most hip-hop that was out at the same time.

I'm a diehard hip-hop fan and I love it when Prince does hip-hop inspired stuff.

The "Nasty Girl" remix of "Hot Wit U" drops like a MFer as well.

"Days of wild" and "Pussy Control" (not really a great song) are not really hip hop influenced songs to me.

I like "My name is Prince". "return of the bump squad" is not bad. My favourite is still black MF in the house.

As a die-hard hip hop fan, don't you think he would have been unbelievable hering him working with guys like Dj Premier, Rakim, Prince Paul or the Beat Junkies ? But we come back to Prince's fear of working with people...

Militant said:

Prince has done hip-hop inspired material INCREDIBLY well.

Too easy to remember the not so good attempts, right?

For every "Jughead" there's a "Days Of Wild". For every "Gangsta Glam" there's a "Pussy Control" or "My Name Is Prince".

"Gett Off" alone slams harder than most hip-hop that was out at the same time.

I'm a diehard hip-hop fan and I love it when Prince does hip-hop inspired stuff.

The "Nasty Girl" remix of "Hot Wit U" drops like a MFer as well.

The funny thing about Prince is most of the hip hop producers (known and unknown) respect him across the board on his drum programming and beats. His choice of rappers and ability to discern quality is poor, but i'm not sure he ever cared enough to feel that he "needed" a great rapper.

trickykid59 said:

The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

I had forgotten about this. I need to listen to it again.

I worked in Hip Hop, Minneapolis starting in 1990 and knew both Tony and TC, actually working with TC on several projects. Prince is a 50 something Midwesterner who grew up listening to AM Radio, Minneapolis was a vanilla market when we got here so imagine what it was in 1972 When Prince started buying records. When Hip Hop started commercially Prince was not a record buyer he was a recording artist under contract too worried about his own sound. When in NY he was playing CBGB's not going to block parties to see what "might" be jumping off. Prince never respected Hip Hop, not in a dislike way but he never gave it anymore introspection than he would gave the many aborted side projects he started. TC and Tony are cool dudes, we used to roast the shit out of them when they came over to hang, they knew they couldn't rap. Remember when Dave chappell said powerful men are too busy to chase ass, they fuck who is near?. That was Prince and Rap. Tony, Damon and Kirk were extras who danced in PR, they were from North Minny and knew all of his peers and used to follow Prince to the bathroom at First Ave. TC Ellis was a peer, known Prince his whole life, that job he sings about in Raspberry Beret? TC's dad was Mr. McGee. Prince took the job cus he had a crush on TC's sis, he had no intention of working. Paisley Park never had an A&R person, i once told TC I'd go and find rappers for free and he laughed telling me it wasn't actually a record company.

Interesting read, thank you.

I am aware he never really was exposed to the culture. What i still don't understand is why he so often tried to mix hip hop to his music.

Wasn't TC Prince's bodyguard at one point ?

TC was never his bodyguard but dude is kinda hood, he was a recovering addict as well. From the way he puts it Prince held the album as incentive to clean his life up. When we were kicking it with him we could tell he was still kind of capable of some foul shit. Prince started dabbling because he was afraid, which is not a good look. Rap was taking over, Prince made the move to compete plain in simple. He was no worse than the products that started using rap in their commercials, the interest was commercial pure and simple. That kind of motivation never ends well.

The funny thing about Prince is most of the hip hop producers (known and unknown) respect him across the board on his drum programming and beats. His choice of rappers and ability to discern quality is poor, but i'm not sure he ever cared enough to feel that he "needed" a great rapper.

It's true. He's not only respected for his drum programming by hip hop producers but also by chicago house/detroit techno producers. He had a huge influence on these scenes.

I think you're right, he didn't even care about working with a great rapper. I just wish he just didn't work with awful ones.

TC was never his bodyguard but dude is kinda hood, he was a recovering addict as well. From the way he puts it Prince held the album as incentive to clean his life up. When we were kicking it with him we could tell he was still kind of capable of some foul shit. Prince started dabbling because he was afraid, which is not a good look. Rap was taking over, Prince made the move to compete plain in simple. He was no worse than the products that started using rap in their commercials, the interest was commercial pure and simple. That kind of motivation never ends well.

It's a nice gesture from Prince to have TC focusing on music rather bad habits. I agree, he did what almost everybody did, try to jump in the bandwagon. It's more disapointing from a gifted musician like prince than from tv commercials producers.

trickykid59 said:

The funny thing about Prince is most of the hip hop producers (known and unknown) respect him across the board on his drum programming and beats. His choice of rappers and ability to discern quality is poor, but i'm not sure he ever cared enough to feel that he "needed" a great rapper.

It's true. He's not only respected for his drum programming by hip hop producers but also by chicago house/detroit techno producers. He had a huge influence on these scenes.

I think you're right, he didn't even care about working with a great rapper. I just wish he just didn't work with awful ones.

TC was never his bodyguard but dude is kinda hood, he was a recovering addict as well. From the way he puts it Prince held the album as incentive to clean his life up. When we were kicking it with him we could tell he was still kind of capable of some foul shit. Prince started dabbling because he was afraid, which is not a good look. Rap was taking over, Prince made the move to compete plain in simple. He was no worse than the products that started using rap in their commercials, the interest was commercial pure and simple. That kind of motivation never ends well.

It's a nice gesture from Prince to have TC focusing on music rather bad habits. I agree, he did what almost everybody did, try to jump in the bandwagon. It's more disapointing from a gifted musician like prince than from tv commercials producers.

Yeah it was always cringeworthy but hey we all look silly when we dont fully respect cultures and different mediums. He's like that with youtube now lol. Some people are like that when it comes to Prince lol. I'm not sure Prince knows what great is, i think he likes Tip cus Tip is different and his stuff was always more nuanced than rappers who are superior to him. I often wondered how he would respond in a session with a rap producer with music chops, a guy who can play.

i think he likes Tip cus Tip is different and his stuff was always more nuanced than rappers who are superior to him.

That's why we all love Q-tip for, no ? As far as i'm concerned, i don't see many rappers who are consistantly superior to Tip. Plus, he's a wonderful beatmaker. They're collab should have been something else.

I often wondered how he would respond in a session with a rap producer with music chops, a guy who can play

Me too. Collabs between talented musician & beatmakers are often disappointing.

trickykid59 said:

i think he likes Tip cus Tip is different and his stuff was always more nuanced than rappers who are superior to him.

That's why we all love Q-tip for, no ? As far as i'm concerned, i don't see many rappers who are consistantly superior to Tip. Plus, he's a wonderful beatmaker. They're collab should have been something else.

I often wondered how he would respond in a session with a rap producer with music chops, a guy who can play

Me too. Collabs between talented musician & beatmakers are often disappointing.

Prince and DJ Quick is my dream match-up, Quick is a talented beatmaker and musician, rap was a side talent. Tip is a talented brah, but i consider him alternative which is why prince dug him.

dreamshaman32 said:

Prince and DJ Quick is my dream match-up, Quick is a talented beatmaker and musician, rap was a side talent. Tip is a talented brah, but i consider him alternative which is why prince dug him.

THIS.

Quik is a genius, a talented musician and he BRINGS THE FUNK. I love him. Most underrated producer in hip-hop IMO.

I never really listened to DJ Quck so i have no opinion. Prince working with Erik Sermon in the 90's would have been great. A duet with too short could have been fun too.

I just remembered Prince produced some tracks for Monie Love. But I never heard any of them. I oubt it was any good.

Today i think it would be great if Prince could work with dam-funk (which is not really hip hop).

What Prince could have learned (/remembered) working with hip hop headz is that a too polished sound (as on his albums since emancipation) makes good songs fucking boring.

trickykid59 said:

A duet with too short could have been fun too.

Hulk Hogan laying Oprah would be, too.

It's Too $hort btw.

I keep seeing all these threads about Prince and hip hop, like it was a major influence on his 90s recordings. So he gave the crappy rapper Tony M a couple songs here and there to fuck up, so what? The majority of the material was Prince, i.e, Thunder, Cream, D&P, Willing and Able, Insatiable, Money Don't Matter 2 Night, Live 4 Love. Same with the album.

motherfunka said:

I keep seeing all these threads about Prince and hip hop, like it was a major influence on his 90s recordings. So he gave the crappy rapper Tony M a couple songs here and there to fuck up, so what? The majority of the material was Prince, i.e, Thunder, Cream, D&P, Willing and Able, Insatiable, Money Don't Matter 2 Night, Live 4 Love. Same with the album.

Don't 4get "Hot Wit U" that was probably one of his best Hip Hop songs!

LizaWoman08 said:

motherfunka said:

I keep seeing all these threads about Prince and hip hop, like it was a major influence on his 90s recordings. So he gave the crappy rapper Tony M a couple songs here and there to fuck up, so what? The majority of the material was Prince, i.e, Thunder, Cream, D&P, Willing and Able, Insatiable, Money Don't Matter 2 Night, Live 4 Love. Same with the album.

Don't 4get "Hot Wit U" that was probably one of his best Hip Hop songs!

All my opinion of course, but I don't think Prince's sound was anything like what the true hip hop artists were doing at that time. Prince scoffed at the idea of them wanting to use his back catalog for samples.

motherfunka said:

LizaWoman08 said:

Don't 4get "Hot Wit U" that was probably one of his best Hip Hop songs!

All my opinion of course, but I don't think Prince's sound was anything like what the true hip hop artists were doing at that time. Prince scoffed at the idea of them wanting to use his back catalog for samples.

I know MC Hammer sampled when doves cry....i wonder how he reeeally felt about that??

LizaWoman08 said:

motherfunka said:

All my opinion of course, but I don't think Prince's sound was anything like what the true hip hop artists were doing at that time. Prince scoffed at the idea of them wanting to use his back catalog for samples.

I know MC Hammer sampled when doves cry....i wonder how he reeeally felt about that??

Not sure about that one. There was some interview where Prince discussed Ginuwine remaking When Doves Cry, and it wasn't nice.

motherfunka said:

LizaWoman08 said:

I know MC Hammer sampled when doves cry....i wonder how he reeeally felt about that??

Not sure about that one. There was some interview where Prince discussed Ginuwine remaking When Doves Cry, and it wasn't nice.

Don't other artists have to get P's permission to sample his music? Didn't he try to sue them?

LizaWoman08 said:

motherfunka said:

Not sure about that one. There was some interview where Prince discussed Ginuwine remaking When Doves Cry, and it wasn't nice.

Don't other artists have to get P's permission to sample his music? Didn't he try to sue them?

This is where I get lost! Prince did not want Tom Jones to do Kiss, or Ginuwine to do When Doves Cry. I'm thinking that Warner Brothers must have given the okay since they own the masters??? Although I read interviews where Prince said rappers were coming left and right wanting to use his music, and he said they could not. I don't get it.

Spinlight said:

Prince has no idea how to involve himself with people who specialize in hip hop music who are on the same or similar level as him. That's why you never see him perform with The Roots or D'angelo or John Legend or Kanye West (regardless of anyone's opinions on Kanye), etc. He couldn't hang with people like that because their creativity is on the same level as Prince's when he was their age and it probably scares him. So he invites either subpar/shitty rappers (Scrap D, that white kid on Daisy Chain) or rappers who are past their prime and still do the same dated routine. The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

Even "Eve" sounds out of place in the songs he used her on.

Interesting. because ?Questlove from The Roots, joined Prince on stage, and played drums, during a couple of songs, at one of Prince's private shows for npgmc members, back in June, 2006, at Butter Restaurant in NYC.

[Edited 9/27/10 20:15pm]

2elijah said:

Spinlight said:

Prince has no idea how to involve himself with people who specialize in hip hop music who are on the same or similar level as him. That's why you never see him perform with The Roots or D'angelo or John Legend or Kanye West (regardless of anyone's opinions on Kanye), etc. He couldn't hang with people like that because their creativity is on the same level as Prince's when he was their age and it probably scares him. So he invites either subpar/shitty rappers (Scrap D, that white kid on Daisy Chain) or rappers who are past their prime and still do the same dated routine. The only successful rap collaboration he has done, imo, was Undisputed with Chuck D.

Even "Eve" sounds out of place in the songs he used her on.

Interesting. because ?Questlove from The Roots, joined Prince on stage, and played drums, during a couple of songs, at one of Prince's private shows for npgmc members, back in June, 2006, at Butter Restaurant in NYC.

[Edited 9/27/10 20:15pm]

Let me know when he puts out a record w/ Questlove. You know, and the rest of The Roots.

Interesting. because ?Questlove from The Roots, joined Prince on stage, and played drums, during a couple of songs, at one of Prince's private shows for npgmc members, back in June, 2006, at Butter Restaurant in NYC.

I knew ?Questlove was a big fan but i ignored he ever played with P. Interesting, but it is a (never released) impromptu jam. Plus, ?Questlove (who produced Jill Scott & Al Green) can't be limited to hip hop. Did he play hip hop oriented material ?