Alternate version of C-Note?

If I just leave it like that does it make any sense to any of y'all hard cores out there? If it does, any info would be greatly appreciated. It makes my head hurt when I don't know what something is and I can't figure it out by asking teh internets.

It's attached to the end of a version of Xpectation that's mixed (possibly unmastered) WAY louder than the Club version. All the C-Note tracks named for Japanese cities are 10-30 seconds longer. Copenhagen is three minutes and ten seconds longer. Empty Room appears to be a completely different version and is only four minutes long. Was there a different earlier version at the Club and I'm just not remembering it?

Apologies if I'm breaking every forum rule in the book. But I can't find info on it anyplace else.

[Edited 9/11/10 21:54pm]

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

According to Princevault.com, only Copenhagen was modified for the album release and i indeed never had noticed any other difference. Which track was supposed to have this reversed line??? And what other differences could there be that i didn't notice???

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

Cool. Thanks. That helps a little. In this case...

Copenhagen on my C-Note is 10:28 seconds, the version in question is 13:38. The C-Note version fades in with a crowd cheering, the version in question starts off dead quite with some Renato synth noodling. Drums start at :20 seconds, pretty full groove at around the one minute mark. The end appears to be exactly the same. Haven't been able to place the extra three minutes just yet. It sounds like most of it is near the beginning, but not all of it.

Nagoya is exactly the same song, and although it has no blank space at the beginning or end it's ten seconds longer. *shrug*

Tokyo isn't any different - turns out the version on my regular C-Note is clipped slightly. However, Tokyo and Osaka are in reverse order on the version in question, so the rain and thunder flow together differently. The extra time on Osaka is just more rain at the end on the way to the fade. Both versions of Tokyo have the backwards part.

Empty Room is completely different in length. My regular C-Note version is 5:26, the version in question is 4:01, but the cheering at the end is the same. The extra time in the longer version is the jamming and guitar solo parts after the second verse...I think...

Thanks again. I like the longer versions of Empty Room and Copenhagen better, so I'll just stick with those.

databank said:

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

According to Princevault.com, only Copenhagen was modified for the album release and i indeed never had noticed any other difference. Which track was supposed to have this reversed line??? And what other differences could there be that i didn't notice???

I keep listening to both versions of Empty Room but I just can't figure it out. I'm expecting to find one of those random doubled up parts, but it just isn't there. I'm tired and have been listening for too long, though. Should probably try again tomorrow.

I didn't think Princevault was working. I tried it a while back and it failed. Clearly it's working fine now.

OK... so the short version of Empty Room is the correct one. That's trippen me out, because I've always had the longer version.

Cerebus said:

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

Cool. Thanks. That helps a little. In this case...

Copenhagen on my C-Note is 10:28 seconds, the version in question is 13:38. The C-Note version fades in with a crowd cheering, the version in question starts off dead quite with some Renato synth noodling. Drums start at :20 seconds, pretty full groove at around the one minute mark. The end appears to be exactly the same. Haven't been able to place the extra three minutes just yet. It sounds like most of it is near the beginning, but not all of it.

Nagoya is exactly the same song, and although it has no blank space at the beginning or end it's ten seconds longer. *shrug*

Tokyo isn't any different - turns out the version on my regular C-Note is clipped slightly. However, Tokyo and Osaka are in reverse order on the version in question, so the rain and thunder flow together differently. The extra time on Osaka is just more rain at the end on the way to the fade. Both versions of Tokyo have the backwards part.

Empty Room is completely different in length. My regular C-Note version is 5:26, the version in question is 4:01, but the cheering at the end is the same. The extra time in the longer version is the jamming and guitar solo parts after the second verse...I think...

Thanks again. I like the longer versions of Empty Room and Copenhagen better, so I'll just stick with those.

never heard of a longer version of Empty Room. bootleg from another source, possibly?

errant said:

never heard of a longer version of Empty Room. bootleg from another source, possibly?

Probably. Somethin' fishy for sure - definitely not the version that should be there. I'll figure it out eventually. Glad I've got the right songs in the right places now, though. I can get a bit neurotic about these things when I actually pay attention to them.

databank said:

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

According to Princevault.com, only Copenhagen was modified for the album release and i indeed never had noticed any other difference. Which track was supposed to have this reversed line??? And what other differences could there be that i didn't notice???

tokyo. there was only one version released, but it had a backwards part or something, and you might recall some of the npgmc stuff having swearing edited by being reversed, and people adjusting this by re-editing back again, so in the same way i made my own version by reversing the backwards bit. i recall a few other people talking about doing a similar thing at the time

btw, i wouldn't call CNOTE an album, it's an EP at best. it's just a collection of tracks recorded at various soundchecks, 5 short tracks doesn't make an album to me, especially not when it fits on the end of xpectations (perhaps if you exclude empty room that doesn't really fit with the other instrumentals, but is the stand out track)

Prince yanked a chunk out of the original, 96-kbps Club version of Copenhagen and quickly re-upped it at a slightly higher bitrate, as it contained elements of Jean-Pierre by Miles Davis.

squirrelgrease said:

Prince yanked a chunk out of the original, 96-kbps Club version of Copenhagen and quickly re-upped it at a slightly higher bitrate, as it contained elements of Jean-Pierre by Miles Davis.

just like the original 1 track cds of days of wild on more jam live in montreal or whatever it was called. the original cd given away at the celly had parts of soul man on it, but the 3 track version sold online took that bit out. luckily i got a pile of copies of the one track version

The tracks are not in "C-N-O-T-E" order on Sabotage's boot Continental Drift, for some reason. This version also utilizes the 13:something recording of Copenhagen.

Perhaps your version is sourced from the Sab boot?

unique said:

databank said:

According to Princevault.com, only Copenhagen was modified for the album release and i indeed never had noticed any other difference. Which track was supposed to have this reversed line??? And what other differences could there be that i didn't notice???

tokyo. there was only one version released, but it had a backwards part or something, and you might recall some of the npgmc stuff having swearing edited by being reversed, and people adjusting this by re-editing back again, so in the same way i made my own version by reversing the backwards bit. i recall a few other people talking about doing a similar thing at the time

btw, i wouldn't call CNOTE an album, it's an EP at best. it's just a collection of tracks recorded at various soundchecks, 5 short tracks doesn't make an album to me, especially not when it fits on the end of xpectations (perhaps if you exclude empty room that doesn't really fit with the other instrumentals, but is the stand out track)

C-Note is an album, it was sold as such and it's longer than Dirty Mind, so if it's an EP, then Dirty mind is an EP as well

Cerebus said:

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

Cool. Thanks. That helps a little. In this case...

Copenhagen on my C-Note is 10:28 seconds, the version in question is 13:38. The C-Note version fades in with a crowd cheering, the version in question starts off dead quite with some Renato synth noodling. Drums start at :20 seconds, pretty full groove at around the one minute mark. The end appears to be exactly the same. Haven't been able to place the extra three minutes just yet. It sounds like most of it is near the beginning, but not all of it.

Nagoya is exactly the same song, and although it has no blank space at the beginning or end it's ten seconds longer. *shrug*

Tokyo isn't any different - turns out the version on my regular C-Note is clipped slightly. However, Tokyo and Osaka are in reverse order on the version in question, so the rain and thunder flow together differently. The extra time on Osaka is just more rain at the end on the way to the fade. Both versions of Tokyo have the backwards part.

Empty Room is completely different in length. My regular C-Note version is 5:26, the version in question is 4:01, but the cheering at the end is the same. The extra time in the longer version is the jamming and guitar solo parts after the second verse...I think...

Thanks again. I like the longer versions of Empty Room and Copenhagen better, so I'll just stick with those.

Huh???

databank said:

Cerebus said:

Cool. Thanks. That helps a little. In this case...

Copenhagen on my C-Note is 10:28 seconds, the version in question is 13:38. The C-Note version fades in with a crowd cheering, the version in question starts off dead quite with some Renato synth noodling. Drums start at :20 seconds, pretty full groove at around the one minute mark. The end appears to be exactly the same. Haven't been able to place the extra three minutes just yet. It sounds like most of it is near the beginning, but not all of it.

Nagoya is exactly the same song, and although it has no blank space at the beginning or end it's ten seconds longer. *shrug*

Tokyo isn't any different - turns out the version on my regular C-Note is clipped slightly. However, Tokyo and Osaka are in reverse order on the version in question, so the rain and thunder flow together differently. The extra time on Osaka is just more rain at the end on the way to the fade. Both versions of Tokyo have the backwards part.

Empty Room is completely different in length. My regular C-Note version is 5:26, the version in question is 4:01, but the cheering at the end is the same. The extra time in the longer version is the jamming and guitar solo parts after the second verse...I think...

Thanks again. I like the longer versions of Empty Room and Copenhagen better, so I'll just stick with those.

Huh???

I know! Right? Slight pitch difference, I'm assuming. It's exactly the same, no extra space, ten seconds longer.

fms said:

The tracks are not in "C-N-O-T-E" order on Sabotage's boot Continental Drift, for some reason. This version also utilizes the 13:something recording of Copenhagen.

Perhaps your version is sourced from the Sab boot?

Yep. Considering the boost in volume and difference in the sound mix, I'm pretty sure that's it. Sabotage does that a lot, so it makes sense. Why they would bootleg something that was pretty readily available to begin with is another question altogether. I guess they figured some people really wanted a CD version of these tracks.

Cerebus said:

fms said:

The tracks are not in "C-N-O-T-E" order on Sabotage's boot Continental Drift, for some reason. This version also utilizes the 13:something recording of Copenhagen.

Perhaps your version is sourced from the Sab boot?

Yep. Considering the boost in volume and difference in the sound mix, I'm pretty sure that's it. Sabotage does that a lot, so it makes sense. Why they would bootleg something that was pretty readily available to begin with is another question altogether. I guess they figured some people really wanted a CD version of these tracks.

well they're never going to be better than the 128 kbps quality that the NPGMC sent out.

the real reason is they wanted to make money off of people without the wherewithal to hunt them down online.

databank said:

unique said:

tokyo. there was only one version released, but it had a backwards part or something, and you might recall some of the npgmc stuff having swearing edited by being reversed, and people adjusting this by re-editing back again, so in the same way i made my own version by reversing the backwards bit. i recall a few other people talking about doing a similar thing at the time

btw, i wouldn't call CNOTE an album, it's an EP at best. it's just a collection of tracks recorded at various soundchecks, 5 short tracks doesn't make an album to me, especially not when it fits on the end of xpectations (perhaps if you exclude empty room that doesn't really fit with the other instrumentals, but is the stand out track)

C-Note is an album, it was sold as such and it's longer than Dirty Mind, so if it's an EP, then Dirty mind is an EP as well

a closer analogy would be the Time's 6-track albums that clock in under 40 minutes. and yeah, it was sold as an album later on, but that's not the way it was originally released.

errant said:

Cerebus said:

Yep. Considering the boost in volume and difference in the sound mix, I'm pretty sure that's it. Sabotage does that a lot, so it makes sense. Why they would bootleg something that was pretty readily available to begin with is another question altogether. I guess they figured some people really wanted a CD version of these tracks.

well they're never going to be better than the 128 kbps quality that the NPGMC sent out.

the real reason is they wanted to make money off of people without the wherewithal to hunt them down online.

Actually, they sound about 100 times better. The difference is actually quite incredible. Particularly on the Xpectation tracks.

Agreed. But that concept is just so foriegn to me. Seems so obvious to just go online and grab 'em rather than pay inflated bootleg prices (which I've never done and never will).

unique said:

errant said:

databank said:

C-Note is an album, it was sold as such and it's longer than Dirty Mind, so if it's an EP, then Dirty mind is an EP as well

a closer analogy would be the Time's 6-track albums that clock in under 40 minutes. and yeah, it was sold as an album later on, but that's not the way it was originally released.

it wasn't really an album, it was just a bunch of seperate tracks, later made available to download together if you paid even more money. it wasn't sold as an album you could buy on cd with artwork etc and not recorded or intended as such. it was known more as an EP. the time albums were proper albums, as was dirty mind, and there are albums with just 1 track on each side like tubular bells and a load of other 70s artwank shit, so the number of tracks or time has no real bearing

purpledoveuk said:

unique said:

the files were originally emailed to members by being sent a link to one track. members in different parts of the world got a different link to the track closest to where they stay

the original version of copenhagen was different to the later version. it started sooner and faded earlier, and the second version started later and faded later. the bitrate was higher on the second version. personally, i edited the two together to make a longer version. one other track had a backwards part at the start and i also reversed it the right way round, but the running time is the same

as far as i know, thats the only difference

Not all members...I got diddly squat. One of my gripes was that I often got missed off mailing lists with NPGMC...yet curiously they never had a problem bombarding me with emails on renewal time [Edited 9/12/10 12:34pm]

check your spambox. if it's not there then it means they hated you. you probably posted "jehova is a cunt" in the forums or something. you're probbaly on prince's shitlist. if you didn't get a lotusflower t shirt or it was the wrong size, then that's undisputable proof that prince hates you

Cerebus said:

errant said:

well they're never going to be better than the 128 kbps quality that the NPGMC sent out.

the real reason is they wanted to make money off of people without the wherewithal to hunt them down online.

Actually, they sound about 100 times better. The difference is actually quite incredible. Particularly on the Xpectation tracks.

Agreed. But that concept is just so foriegn to me. Seems so obvious to just go online and grab 'em rather than pay inflated bootleg prices (which I've never done and never will).

well they might have turned up the volume on them and put them through a couple of other filters, but unless they've got soundboard sources for those soundchecks, the actually quality isn't going to be any better than what was available. there isn't such a thing as a CD quality version of something when the source was never available in anything higher than a 128 kbps mp3 or wma.

errant said:

Cerebus said:

Actually, they sound about 100 times better. The difference is actually quite incredible. Particularly on the Xpectation tracks.

Agreed. But that concept is just so foriegn to me. Seems so obvious to just go online and grab 'em rather than pay inflated bootleg prices (which I've never done and never will).

well they might have turned up the volume on them and put them through a couple of other filters, but unless they've got soundboard sources for those soundchecks, the actually quality isn't going to be any better than what was available. there isn't such a thing as a CD quality version of something when the source was never available in anything higher than a 128 kbps mp3 or wma.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I regularly work with audio restoration software and the changes you can make these days are beyond unreal. You can seperate and equalize endless frequencies (boosting or lowering the highs, lows and middles as you desire). You can change the stereo seperation of individual instruments. You can completely remove hiss and popping sounds (not like in the old days when software claimed to do that, but kinda sucked at it). You can boost volume without clipping far beyond what I thought would ever be possible five years ago. I can take an old live jazz recording and make it sound like they're in a studio. I can take live audience recordings and make them as good as a soundboard (if there isn't a lot of crowd noice, of course). Once you've converted your audio to digital you can pretty much do whatever you want.

unique said:

purpledoveuk said:

unique said: Not all members...I got diddly squat. One of my gripes was that I often got missed off mailing lists with NPGMC...yet curiously they never had a problem bombarding me with emails on renewal time [Edited 9/12/10 12:34pm]

check your spambox. if it's not there then it means they hated you. you probably posted "jehova is a cunt" in the forums or something. you're probbaly on prince's shitlist. if you didn't get a lotusflower t shirt or it was the wrong size, then that's undisputable proof that prince hates you

Cerebus said:

errant said:

well they might have turned up the volume on them and put them through a couple of other filters, but unless they've got soundboard sources for those soundchecks, the actually quality isn't going to be any better than what was available. there isn't such a thing as a CD quality version of something when the source was never available in anything higher than a 128 kbps mp3 or wma.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I regularly work with audio restoration software and the changes you can make these days are beyond unreal. You can seperate and equalize endless frequencies (boosting or lowering the highs, lows and middles as you desire). You can change the stereo seperation of individual instruments. You can completely remove hiss and popping sounds (not like in the old days when software claimed to do that, but kinda sucked at it). You can boost volume without clipping far beyond what I thought would ever be possible five years ago. I can take an old live jazz recording and make it sound like they're in a studio. I can take live audience recordings and make them as good as a soundboard (if there isn't a lot of crowd noice, of course). Once you've converted your audio to digital you can pretty much do whatever you want.

Sounds fantastic, i wish this was the type of stuff they taught on my computing course.

Cerebus said:

errant said:

well they might have turned up the volume on them and put them through a couple of other filters, but unless they've got soundboard sources for those soundchecks, the actually quality isn't going to be any better than what was available. there isn't such a thing as a CD quality version of something when the source was never available in anything higher than a 128 kbps mp3 or wma.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I regularly work with audio restoration software and the changes you can make these days are beyond unreal. You can seperate and equalize endless frequencies (boosting or lowering the highs, lows and middles as you desire). You can change the stereo seperation of individual instruments. You can completely remove hiss and popping sounds (not like in the old days when software claimed to do that, but kinda sucked at it). You can boost volume without clipping far beyond what I thought would ever be possible five years ago. I can take an old live jazz recording and make it sound like they're in a studio. I can take live audience recordings and make them as good as a soundboard (if there isn't a lot of crowd noice, of course). Once you've converted your audio to digital you can pretty much do whatever you want.

that's all well and good, and I'm sure it sounds much better, in fact I often do it myself, but you're not getting back any of the sound that was lost or distorted during the original compression to a 128 mp3.

unique said:

errant said:

a closer analogy would be the Time's 6-track albums that clock in under 40 minutes. and yeah, it was sold as an album later on, but that's not the way it was originally released.

it wasn't really an album, it was just a bunch of seperate tracks, later made available to download together if you paid even more money. it wasn't sold as an album you could buy on cd with artwork etc and not recorded or intended as such. it was known more as an EP. the time albums were proper albums, as was dirty mind, and there are albums with just 1 track on each side like tubular bells and a load of other 70s artwank shit, so the number of tracks or time has no real bearing

It wasn't an album until fans bitched about popping for a $100 membership that resulted in broken promises. Prince probably shit himself laughing when he came up with that C-NOTE "joke".

squirrelgrease said:

unique said:

it wasn't really an album, it was just a bunch of seperate tracks, later made available to download together if you paid even more money. it wasn't sold as an album you could buy on cd with artwork etc and not recorded or intended as such. it was known more as an EP. the time albums were proper albums, as was dirty mind, and there are albums with just 1 track on each side like tubular bells and a load of other 70s artwank shit, so the number of tracks or time has no real bearing

It wasn't an album until fans bitched about popping for a $100 membership that resulted in broken promises. Prince probably shit himself laughing when he came up with that C-NOTE "joke".

in the year people paid $100 it was sent seperately to people, just one track per person. it wasn't until the following year with the $25 membership that it was sold in the downloads section. i think there was options for "cybersingles" or something that were single tracks for say 99c and another option for "cyberalbums" or something and that had multiple tracks in groups, like xpectations and that's where CNOTE was listed. i've always thought of it as an EP and thought that's what everyone else did

unique said: