Paris9748430 said:

What other 52 year old do you know is producing hits these days?

Madonna has had 5 top 10 hits and 17 #1 club hits this decade. She stayed with WB, Prince left.

Prince has sold 40 million records in the US, Madonna has sold 64 million.

Madonna has sold 300 million records word wide, prince has sold 80 million.

I'm pretty sure Prince was close to or ahead of Madonna in 1995 when he left with WB.

I don't think there are many people here who think Madonna is the better artist than Prince. He's cost himself about 220 million records sold and at least a dozen hits.

blackbob said:

the singles market is dead...its all downloads now and who is going to download a prince single ??....not me and i would imagine no-one over 30 ...which is where is big fanbase is....would download singles.....the charts are and always have been a mainly teenage market...prince is too old now....i think he still makes great music but prince could write the greatest song you have ever heard and it still wouldnt be a hit....his hit making days are over unless something like a film tie-in or whatever......i mean ....when was the last time bruce springsteen had a hit?....or anyone in their 50s apart from the musicial prostitute that is madonna who flashes her bits at the latest hot producer who passes by to try and keep having hits.....no prince wont have another hit.....thank god....

A hit singleno , but then who under the age of 40 has? But BS last 2 albums have sold millions and have been killer stuff, also grammy winning, i love me some Bruce.

Prince doesn't seem to care about that these days.

But if he wanted that, imo he can still put out lots of Hits

No Doubt, Guaranteed if his songs were available to ears everywhere

In case you didn't know... Prince has been blacklisted by major lables, which consequently affected his radio play position, which became abysmal. Since radios in recent years have been operating under industry payola (even though its illegal, but when you hold all the cards in your hand as some labels do, legality is no longer an issue)

Black Sweat was his biggest single to date, and it received no radio play, which is pretty astonishing

And it was radio friendly, as was a few songs on 3121.

However, Prince has long since said that he won't be "givin up fees" to the "Jukebox with a heartbeat." And as a result, he won't get any play from radios, which is what billboard hot 100 uses to generate airplay ranks.

Madonna, business wise has been a little smarter, while people LOOOOOOVE to quote her sales, her main source of revenue doesn't come from the sales or hits she generates.

WB's promotion machine, paying the fees makes it easy for her to come up with a hit.

In addition she makes club music, which is another source of airplay, tacked onto radio and sales.

Now in the recent years, with the rise of the internet, Labels, have gotten scared and have decided to do 360 deals. Which pretty much takes a wide chunk out of the artist' revenue stream. Madonna is successful, because of her massive touring, but even in that, she's lucky if she makes 50% of the projected revenue unrecouped.

Whilst Prince, album, small or big, tour, small or big, gets at least 60 to 75% of his revenue stream, simply because he doesn't have a major label taking 15% out of tours, sales etc...

Labels are even taking a chunk out of merchandise, which use to go directly to artist.

Long story short,

you can have a hit, doesn't mean your gonna make any money.

Whilst staying independent, could make you some serious cash, but you risk dropping off the face of the planet because you don't have a labels machinery behind you propelling you to hitmaking.

But yeah, Prince could still make a hit, but in this day an age, to generate a hit you need a major label, or some behemoth of a promotion plan.

EmbattledWarrior said:

In case you didn't know... Prince has been blacklisted by major lables, which consequently affected his radio play position, which became abysmal. Since radios in recent years have been operating under industry payola (even though its illegal, but when you hold all the cards in your hand as some labels do, legality is no longer an issue)

Black Sweat was his biggest single to date, and it received no radio play, which is pretty astonishing

And it was radio friendly, as was a few songs on 3121.

However, Prince has long since said that he won't be "givin up fees" to the "Jukebox with a heartbeat." And as a result, he won't get any play from radios, which is what billboard hot 100 uses to generate airplay ranks.

Madonna, business wise has been a little smarter, while people LOOOOOOVE to quote her sales, her main source of revenue doesn't come from the sales or hits she generates.

WB's promotion machine, paying the fees makes it easy for her to come up with a hit.

In addition she makes club music, which is another source of airplay, tacked onto radio and sales.

Now in the recent years, with the rise of the internet, Labels, have gotten scared and have decided to do 360 deals. Which pretty much takes a wide chunk out of the artist' revenue stream. Madonna is successful, because of her massive touring, but even in that, she's lucky if she makes 50% of the projected revenue unrecouped.

Whilst Prince, album, small or big, tour, small or big, gets at least 60 to 75% of his revenue stream, simply because he doesn't have a major label taking 15% out of tours, sales etc...

Labels are even taking a chunk out of merchandise, which use to go directly to artist.

Long story short,

you can have a hit, doesn't mean your gonna make any money.

Whilst staying independent, could make you some serious cash, but you risk dropping off the face of the planet because you don't have a labels machinery behind you propelling you to hitmaking.

But yeah, Prince could still make a hit, but in this day an age, to generate a hit you need a major label, or some behemoth of a promotion plan.

Thank U for the info, I didn't know or think of these techbicalities. I guess what I meant was that if there were a way for Prince's music to reach a huge, massive population imo he'd have lots of hits.

smoothcriminal12 said:

BEAUGARDE said:

Prince never really was a radio artist or commercial artist. His shit has always been different from what radio has going on. And if what's on the radio 'hits' then I don't want him 2b a hit maker. I've always loved P's music for what it is. I think it's what makes him not comparable to MJ and it's why Prince also deserves the title King Of Pop, not because of the hits but because of the jams. Radio has been dead to me 4 a very long time now. It's really his style of producing, bcuz if someone else performed & produce his songs then they would be radio hit(lol)

Don't call Prince the King of Pop. Michael rightly deserves the title of the King of Popular Music. Prince does not do "pop". I hate when Prince fans try to say that P should be the King Of Pop.

As a die hard Prince fan, I agree with you!! He isn't the king of Pop, MJ (my 2nd love) is and will always be the king of POP and dance!! But Prince is the king of music!! He embodies all genres!

colorblu said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

In case you didn't know... Prince has been blacklisted by major lables, which consequently affected his radio play position, which became abysmal. Since radios in recent years have been operating under industry payola (even though its illegal, but when you hold all the cards in your hand as some labels do, legality is no longer an issue)

Black Sweat was his biggest single to date, and it received no radio play, which is pretty astonishing

And it was radio friendly, as was a few songs on 3121.

However, Prince has long since said that he won't be "givin up fees" to the "Jukebox with a heartbeat." And as a result, he won't get any play from radios, which is what billboard hot 100 uses to generate airplay ranks.

Madonna, business wise has been a little smarter, while people LOOOOOOVE to quote her sales, her main source of revenue doesn't come from the sales or hits she generates.

WB's promotion machine, paying the fees makes it easy for her to come up with a hit.

In addition she makes club music, which is another source of airplay, tacked onto radio and sales.

Now in the recent years, with the rise of the internet, Labels, have gotten scared and have decided to do 360 deals. Which pretty much takes a wide chunk out of the artist' revenue stream. Madonna is successful, because of her massive touring, but even in that, she's lucky if she makes 50% of the projected revenue unrecouped.

Whilst Prince, album, small or big, tour, small or big, gets at least 60 to 75% of his revenue stream, simply because he doesn't have a major label taking 15% out of tours, sales etc...

Labels are even taking a chunk out of merchandise, which use to go directly to artist.

Long story short,

you can have a hit, doesn't mean your gonna make any money.

Whilst staying independent, could make you some serious cash, but you risk dropping off the face of the planet because you don't have a labels machinery behind you propelling you to hitmaking.

But yeah, Prince could still make a hit, but in this day an age, to generate a hit you need a major label, or some behemoth of a promotion plan.

Thank U for the info, I didn't know or think of these techbicalities. I guess what I meant was that if there were a way for Prince's music to reach a huge, massive population imo he'd have lots of hits.

Not really, Internet radio maybe, but alot of those operations, are illegal, and don't give royalties to artist. Some are legit though.

Prince is doing his hustle to stay relevant and seems to be succeeding.

But if your searching for the purple rain days? Aint gonna happen.

Prince is still popular, alot of people liked 20ten,

especially tracks like Future Soul song,

But when your by yourself, getting no airplay, you might as well be in quicksand.

It's a big price for freedom, But I believe Prince would rather be Free than popular.

and I agree

manci said:

LiveToTell86 said:

It's not like you can find an artist who started out more than 15 years ago that still regularly scores hits in the US. Even U2's last album was completely devoid of any hit singles, even though the first one was as commercial as it could get.

Bon Jovi gets at least one hit from each album and they started out 27 years ago. Beyond that though, I would agree with your statement.

Do they? I don't remember seeing them on the charts for at least 5 years... Madonna is not played on radio either since 2003, even the Justin duet only got half the airplay of what a "big" hit usually gets and its follow-up single was instantly ignored. There's only so much artists that can be in the spotlight at a given period, there's limited airplay, radio has to repeat songs to make them hits etc, it's just not happening for artists started out 20-30 years ago, regardless if they release stuff. People in general want the next best thing and the media speeds that up.

There are artists who were big in the past but now they are AFRAID to release music because they know they would be ignored, Shania Twain is the best example, she had no studio album out since 2002! So imagine how her fans manage, compared to us, Prince fans, who get a new Prince album every other year at least.

LiveToTell86 said:

manci said:

Bon Jovi gets at least one hit from each album and they started out 27 years ago. Beyond that though, I would agree with your statement.

Do they? I don't remember seeing them on the charts for at least 5 years... Madonna is not played on radio either since 2003, even the Justin duet only got half the airplay of what a "big" hit usually gets and its follow-up single was instantly ignored. There's only so much artists that can be in the spotlight at a given period, there's limited airplay, radio has to repeat songs to make them hits etc, it's just not happening for artists started out 20-30 years ago, regardless if they release stuff. People in general want the next best thing and the media speeds that up.

There are artists who were big in the past but now they are AFRAID to release music because they know they would be ignored, Shania Twain is the best example, she had no studio album out since 2002! So imagine how her fans manage, compared to us, Prince fans, who get a new Prince album every other year at least.

I posted this earlier - Madonna has had 5 top 10 hits and 17 #1 club hits this decade. The justin duet you referred to hit #3 and went 2x platinum.

alandail said:

I posted this earlier - Madonna has had 5 top 10 hits and 17 #1 club hits this decade. The justin duet you referred to hit #3 and went 2x platinum.

I know Madonna's chart record very well. Club #1s don't mean much in terms of success, even Donna Summer had like 3 from her last album even though it sold peanuts. I know the Justin duet was a big hit, but it only went to around 60 million audience impressions on radio (#11 on Hot 100 Airplay) unlike for example "Music" that hit 90 million, and other huge songs go into the 100 million range as well. "Hung Up" went to top 10 almost entirely on sales alone.

Madonna is clearly an exception, and my point is, not even she's invincible and US radio already dropped her in 2003, even though she kept releasing catchy pop hits in the last 5 years. So if she can't do it, don't expect Prince to do it who went through that almost a decade before Madonna. Musicology was hailed as a comeback, but they didn't give him a hit either. Celine's last album didn't get much support either. It is unrealistic to expect the same people to stay popular for decades. And like I said, unlike fans of other artists, Prince fans shouldn't even worry because it doesn't affect his releases, he's not one of those acts who stopped working after one flop...

No, because he produces music most people can't connect to...

...it hasn't anything to do with his label feud.

ernestsewell said:

RudeBoy said:

I thought that perhaps he was upset about internet piracy, and was holding onto his "gems" until something can be figured out, but why release anything if that's the case?

No one ever said that. That's all conjecture.

Which is why he said "I thought that perhaps..."

I happen to agree with this conjecture and have said so repeatedly.

Hi Rude!

ernestsewell said:

Swa said:

I think Prince subconsciously self-sabotages himself with his new releases.

For instance his choice of singles for Lotus Flower - just didn't make sense. There were songs that as soon as you heard it you knew would be hits if given the chance (Forever being a prime example) but the tracks he selects seem like odd ones to me.

Perhaps having a third party (record company) assisting in making the choices is what he needs. He may just be too close to it.

I've also wondered if he is too artistically capable now to write a mainstream hit. It seems the more an artist grows in their skills as a musician and songwriter, the less their music appeals to the masses who seem to only be able to handle simple structured songs, three chords and no real exploration in structure or style.

Biggest truth on the thread.

But as this begins with "I think" and goes on to say "I've also wondered", it is also conjecture, so what makes this "truth?"

Not that SWA is trying to pass it off as truth...just saying.

He got no airplay with that song but "guitar" could/should have been a hit

Nothinbutjoy said:

ernestsewell said:

Biggest truth on the thread.

But as this begins with "I think" and goes on to say "I've also wondered", it is also conjecture, so what makes this "truth?"

Not that SWA is trying to pass it off as truth...just saying.

I was just stating an opinion. Obviously it's not based on anything beyond my own insight. I think Ernestsewell was just saying he agreed with me.

No harm in that

Swa said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

But as this begins with "I think" and goes on to say "I've also wondered", it is also conjecture, so what makes this "truth?"

Not that SWA is trying to pass it off as truth...just saying.

I was just stating an opinion. Obviously it's not based on anything beyond my own insight. I think Ernestsewell was just saying he agreed with me.

No harm in that

Agreed...that's why I added that you were not trying to pass it off as truth...just your opinion.

RudeBoy said:

His last few outputs have been uninspiring, and it leads me to conclude that he's completely lost it.

I thought that perhaps he was upset about internet piracy, and was holding onto his "gems" until something can be figured out, but why release anything if that's the case?

Outside of live shows, i personally think Prince is done! Stick a fork in him, folks

Hummm.................I've been reading that nonsense since 1989 and Prince is still here, releasing new music that I enjoy every single year.

Me thinks your "taste" has lost it.

EmbattledWarrior said:

In case you didn't know... Prince has been blacklisted by major lables, which consequently affected his radio play position, which became abysmal. Since radios in recent years have been operating under industry payola (even though its illegal, but when you hold all the cards in your hand as some labels do, legality is no longer an issue)

Black Sweat was his biggest single to date, and it received no radio play, which is pretty astonishing

And it was radio friendly, as was a few songs on 3121.

However, Prince has long since said that he won't be "givin up fees" to the "Jukebox with a heartbeat." And as a result, he won't get any play from radios, which is what billboard hot 100 uses to generate airplay ranks.

Madonna, business wise has been a little smarter, while people LOOOOOOVE to quote her sales, her main source of revenue doesn't come from the sales or hits she generates.

WB's promotion machine, paying the fees makes it easy for her to come up with a hit.

In addition she makes club music, which is another source of airplay, tacked onto radio and sales.

Now in the recent years, with the rise of the internet, Labels, have gotten scared and have decided to do 360 deals. Which pretty much takes a wide chunk out of the artist' revenue stream. Madonna is successful, because of her massive touring, but even in that, she's lucky if she makes 50% of the projected revenue unrecouped.

Whilst Prince, album, small or big, tour, small or big, gets at least 60 to 75% of his revenue stream, simply because he doesn't have a major label taking 15% out of tours, sales etc...

Labels are even taking a chunk out of merchandise, which use to go directly to artist.

Long story short,

you can have a hit, doesn't mean your gonna make any money.

Whilst staying independent, could make you some serious cash, but you risk dropping off the face of the planet because you don't have a labels machinery behind you propelling you to hitmaking.

But yeah, Prince could still make a hit, but in this day an age, to generate a hit you need a major label, or some behemoth of a promotion plan.

Don't come in here stating FACTS.

Folks would rather listen 2 B.S. than facts......u should know better.

The record industry produces hits, not artists. If Prince wrote When Doves Cry today without a record deal, no one would hear it or care.

Jennifer Lopez had a lot of hit songs and they were most all sh*t....but the record companies and media companies wanted her to have them so she did.

.

[Edited 9/22/10 10:58am]

FunkiestOne said:

The record industry produces hits, not artists. If Prince wrote When Doves Cry today without a record deal, no one would hear it or care.

True.

Graycap23 said:

FunkiestOne said:

The record industry produces hits, not artists. If Prince wrote When Doves Cry today without a record deal, no one would hear it or care.

True.

Wrong, the record industry produces something called hype. If people can't connect to it, the song will fail nonetheless.

Prince gets enough attention because of his big name. It's all about the originality of the songs which he can't create anymore.

BTW: Prince cooperated with major labels not long time ago. It didn't work out.

funkomatic said:

Graycap23 said:

True.

Wrong, the record industry produces something called hype. If people can't connect to it, the song will fail nonetheless.

Prince gets enough attention because of his big name. It's all about the originality of the songs which he can't create anymore.

BTW: Prince cooperated with major labels not long time ago. It didn't work out.

Lol..............like Marco Polo? T.Pain? Etc............what ever u say.

Let's blame poor radio and the record industry. It's so much easier! lol

funkomatic said:

Let's blame poor radio and the record industry. It's so much easier! lol

Well it is the truth. Note how many hits are on the radio that are crap! And notice how many good songs of Prince and other great artists that get no airplay since the record companies like to go after what's young and hot. Sad that music is based on good looks and not talent or quality of music...Not that Prince couldn't slam dunk in both categories though!

Who said people don't like what you call crap!? It's a quality to create a product people can connect to. It's the most important one if you want to produce something like a hit.

Good songs of Prince? His songs sound mostly old-fashioned and uninspired, heard before, not really hot and fresh.

funkomatic said:

Who said people don't like what you call crap!? It's a quality to create a product people can connect to. It's the most important one if you want to produce something like a hit.

Good songs of Prince? His songs sound mostly old-fashioned and uninspired, heard before, not really hot and fresh.

What would u call a hit in the last year or so?

Well, something like "I gotta feeling'" or "Pokerface" was definitely a hit...

funkomatic said:

Well, something like "I gotta feeling'" or "Pokerface" was definitely a hit...

Based on what? Sales?

The whole package...sales, media presence (radio, video, print), popularity worldwide etc.

funkomatic said:

The whole package...sales, media presence (radio, video, print), popularity worldwide etc.

So the fact they that they don't sound like much is irrelevant?