Spinlight said:

vitalbacon said:

on the album "controversy" he musically goes all the way for the first time in his life ever. therefor this album comes closest to who prince is both as a musician and a human being.

I agree that Controversy was where he first displayed what would become his true fingerprint on music history (seamlessly blending funk, soul, rock, r&b, and pop).

If I had to pick a specific ablum..I probably would pick Controversy too.

Chiquetet said:

Well, first of all I think we're all on a journey toward finding our true selves, so philosophically I don't think he's reached that place yet, almost by definition.

Second of all, P is of course the only one even vaguely qualified to answer the question, but while we're pondering and sharing opinions, I'll throw my 2c in too

I feel that Prince had a glimpse of his true self (spiritually speaking), moreso than most, before he had the wisdom to give it any solid grounding, which led to dizzying fame, inspired performances and growing isolation - seemingly creating a rift between him and the rest of society that he tried to mend through spiritual exploration.

I believe that there were things he knew that he didn't truly understand yet, which created an instability in his sense of self and God.

When that instability was painfully tested in the mid-late 90s, he seemed in some ways to end up back at square one, with religion providing a "safe" option for him within which to start rebuilding.

I think that every album and era show us glimpses of who he truly is, albeit different aspects, but he allowed himself to be more vulnerable in his music in his pre-emancipation days (ironic, but not altogether surprising), whereas now his musical and creative genius bulges within a spiritually conservative framework - one that I suspect won't be able to contain his true essence for much longer.

He strikes me as one of the very few who knows where it is that he's going, he just hasn't figured out how to get there. Yet.

In the 90s, he freed himself from what he saw as corporate bondage and, within a few years, seemed to pick up new chains through religion, perhaps because the prospect of allowing himself to be truly free in his creativity and spirituality became too daunting.

Every album, every era, every new 'revelation' he has had over the years represents a step in the journey - even the ones that appear from the outside to be a step backwards.

Prince sings and speaks so much about freedom in many different contexts. It's clearly a strong theme in his life and yet potentially represents his greatest hurdle.

I feel that when he finally lets go of his fears and allows himself to be truly free, then he will realise his true self and that will be an era not to be missed

How are you so sure that he isn't at this point already? What does he have to fear now? Just because he has become a religious man doesn't mean he isn't where he really wants or needs to be!! I bet if you ask Prince...he will tell you he IS finally free to be who he is and he is quite happy with what he's doing right now. There is TRUE FREEDOM in GOD!!! Prince has that now, so now is the time to watch this amazing man. As if the previous man wasn't well worth watching anyway!! Even though he was bound by record company chains, Prince has ALWAYS expressed himself!!! That is one of the things I've always loved about him...he wasn't afraid to do anything!!!

I think he's always been true to himself whether no matter what era or choice he's made.

thedance said:

Prince was Prince in 1978-1995.

1996-2010 he has been an imitation of himself.

And yet you still come to prince.org some 14 years later...?

Graffiti Bridge.

I'm serious.

muskiediver said:

Easy, Lovesexy.

I used to think so too, and it's still my favorite album. But he has evolved in so many ways since then, so I think Lovesexy in the 80's, Emancipation in the 90's, TRC in the early 00's, and Lotusflower now.

80s / Purple Rain.

novabrkr said:

Graffiti Bridge.

I'm serious.

interesting

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Chiquetet said:

I feel that when he finally lets go of his fears and allows himself to be truly free, then he will realise his true self and that will be an era not to be missed

How are you so sure that he isn't at this point already?

I'm not, that's just my perspective.

What does he have to fear now?

Nothing.

But with all the intense privacy, limited exposure to the outside world, legal dramas, etc..., he doesn't strike me as someone who is without fear.

Just because he has become a religious man doesn't mean he isn't where he really wants or needs to be!!

True, although being where you want or need to be at any particular point in time doesn't necessarily equate to being your true self.

btw, I don't mean any of this as a judgement of the man - I happen to believe he is way ahead of most in terms of realising his true self, letting go of his fears, etc... My argument was simply that he's still a work in progress, particularly when it comes to 'walking the walk', so to speak.

That doesn't mean that he's not where he needs and wants to be right now.

I bet if you ask Prince...he will tell you he IS finally free to be who he is and he is quite happy with what he's doing right now.

Quite possibly he would.

There is TRUE FREEDOM in GOD!!!

Agreed.

I suspect where we differ is in the distinction between God and religion.

Prince has that now, so now is the time to watch this amazing man. As if the previous man wasn't well worth watching anyway!! Even though he was bound by record company chains, Prince has ALWAYS expressed himself!!! That is one of the things I've always loved about him...he wasn't afraid to do anything!!!

He has certainly always expressed himself.

I wouldn't agree that he wasn't afraid to do anything.

vitalbacon said:

all these blabla-answers like "he has always been himself" are just way too obvious. just give it a go and name an album, come on...

Lovesexy then

Chiquetet said:

being where you want or need to be at any particular point in time doesn't necessarily equate to being your true self.

i agree, but some get it confused.

Marketing strategy aside, Controversy. That album is like his pulse on record.

Chiquetet said:

How are you so sure that he isn't at this point already?

I'm not, that's just my perspective.

Ok..

What does he have to fear now?

Nothing.

But with all the intense privacy, limited exposure to the outside world, legal dramas, etc..., he doesn't strike me as someone who is without fear.

Prince has always been a private man, yes? He's only on occasion opened up alittle since he knew that's what people wanted. Now that he doesn't care as much, essentially he's come to understand that music and all that isn't all there is to life, he is being exactly how he was in the beginning...extremely private. He isn't trying to make anyone happy but himself and GOD. Prince has always struck me as the "the most out there celeb that doesn't want to be out there." Maybe he's trying to slowly back away from the very thing he sees as having a {negative}hold on him...music.

Just because he has become a religious man doesn't mean he isn't where he really wants or needs to be!!

True, although being where you want or need to be at any particular point in time doesn't necessarily equate to being your true self.

btw, I don't mean any of this as a judgement of the man - I happen to believe he is way ahead of most in terms of realising his true self, letting go of his fears, etc... My argument was simply that he's still a work in progress, particularly when it comes to 'walking the walk', so to speak.

That doesn't mean that he's not where he needs and wants to be right now.

I guess I don't follow how being where you WANT and NEED to be isn't being yourself? If it's where you want to be and need to be, then I would conclude that its who you really are since you want it. That's usually when someone is their true self...being where they really want to be. If you aren't the one to decide for yourself what you want and need, then who does it for you? I do agree he is still a work in progress, as I believe we all are. I'm not sure anyone reaches their fullest potential/purpose in life. I agree, Prince is ahead of most...

There is TRUE FREEDOM in GOD!!!

Agreed.

I suspect where we differ is in the distinction between God and religion.

Possibly! I don't think anyone of us is qualified to make that distinction in regards to Prince. While some may see what he is doing as backwards, that doesn't really matter. It's what he feels called to do and since none of us can say what GOD says to Prince, we must simply support him in his quest..

Prince has that now, so now is the time to watch this amazing man. As if the previous man wasn't well worth watching anyway!! Even though he was bound by record company chains, Prince has ALWAYS expressed himself!!! That is one of the things I've always loved about him...he wasn't afraid to do anything!!!

He has certainly always expressed himself.

I wouldn't agree that he wasn't afraid to do anything

Perhaps...but he did so many things that no one else supported or would have done. If he was afraid, he sure didn't let it stop him. Prince has shown us what it means to really express yourself and do what you feel you want to do...no matter what anyone else thinks. Were you making a blanket statement about him being afraid, or did you have specifics in mind?

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

I guess I don't follow how being where you WANT and NEED to be isn't being yourself? If it's where you want to be and need to be, then I would conclude that its who you really are since you want it. That's usually when someone is their true self...being where they really want to be. If you aren't the one to decide for yourself what you want and need, then who does it for you?

who is driving ur ship? your ego? or your spirit?

ego believes it is the most superior navigator, when spirit is, always has been, and always will be the supreme navigator

imo being one's true self has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with spirit

not sure you or i or anyone else here can say prince is being his true self simply because he 'might' be where he wants to be?

our personal perspective of prince isnt necessarily a fact either - for all we know he could be technically insane and outright lost

just cuz someone looks like they've got it together on the outside doesnt mean they have

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Maybe he's trying to slowly back away from the very thing he sees as having a {negative}hold on him...music.

I hope not.

Releasing any holds or attachments is good, but I don't think it's the music itself that's ever been the problem - perhaps factors surrounding his music...

I guess I don't follow how being where you WANT and NEED to be isn't being yourself? If it's where you want to be and need to be, then I would conclude that its who you really are since you want it. That's usually when someone is their true self...being where they really want to be. If you aren't the one to decide for yourself what you want and need, then who does it for you? I do agree he is still a work in progress, as I believe we all are. I'm not sure anyone reaches their fullest potential/purpose in life. I agree, Prince is ahead of most...

I feel similarly to robinhood with respect to ego/spirit, which is part of what I meant here.

We're all learning, so we can be where we need and want to be - even if that's led by our ego - and that's fine, it's all part of our journey, and yet our true self is still hidden under layers of beliefs and patterns and so forth.

Thus, even if someone is genuinely content with where they're 'at', even if they're somehow arbitrarily deemed to be where they need to be, it still doesn't mean that they're expressing their true self, though it usually (granted, not always) means that they're making progress towards getting their light out from behind the bushel of the ego.

Chiquetet said:

I suspect where we differ is in the distinction between God and religion.

Possibly! I don't think anyone of us is qualified to make that distinction in regards to Prince. While some may see what he is doing as backwards, that doesn't really matter. It's what he feels called to do and since none of us can say what GOD says to Prince, we must simply support him in his quest..

Well, none of us are qualified to be having this discussion in the first place, so it's a bit of a moot point

I don't know that anyone "must simply support him" anymore than he must do any of the myriad of things people suggest here, but I hear what you're saying.

Perhaps...but he did so many things that no one else supported or would have done. If he was afraid, he sure didn't let it stop him. Prince has shown us what it means to really express yourself and do what you feel you want to do...no matter what anyone else thinks. Were you making a blanket statement about him being afraid, or did you have specifics in mind?

Prince has set the bar exceptionally high on several fronts through his work and life, which tends to mean that he's held to a much higher standard than most.

Most often this happens musically and creatively, but in some ways I would also say spiritually.

Yes, he's already done what most would not, but I see the potential for him to break through to yet another level, which was effectively what I meant when I referred to that time as an era not to be missed.

emesem said:

I would say 1978-1988. Its was a mix of shyness, insecurity, sexual obsessiveness, bravado, religion, alienation and optimism.

Xibalba said:

emesem said:

I would say 1978-1988. Its was a mix of shyness, insecurity, sexual obsessiveness, bravado, religion, alienation and optimism.

robinhood said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

I guess I don't follow how being where you WANT and NEED to be isn't being yourself? If it's where you want to be and need to be, then I would conclude that its who you really are since you want it. That's usually when someone is their true self...being where they really want to be. If you aren't the one to decide for yourself what you want and need, then who does it for you?

who is driving ur ship? your ego? or your spirit?

ego believes it is the most superior navigator, when spirit is, always has been, and always will be the supreme navigator

imo being one's true self has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with spirit

not sure you or i or anyone else here can say prince is being his true self simply because he 'might' be where he wants to be?

our personal perspective of prince isnt necessarily a fact either - for all we know he could be technically insane and outright lost

just cuz someone looks like they've got it together on the outside doesnt mean they have

And on the flip side...who are you to say he ISN'T being his true self? Who are you to decide he is going by his ego and not his spirit? Seems to me that finally, Prince is going by a higher power than himself. I'm quite appalled at the egos of some people on this board who want to judge Prince and say "he's not being himself,e tc. etc. etc." Like you know him any better than I do! Please!! The only thing all of us can go by is what Prince says...and he says he is happy and where he needs to be. That's good enough for me!

Chiquetet said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Maybe he's trying to slowly back away from the very thing he sees as having a {negative}hold on him...music.

I hope not.

Releasing any holds or attachments is good, but I don't think it's the music itself that's ever been the problem - perhaps factors surrounding his music...

Well, none of us are qualified to be having this discussion in the first place, so it's a bit of a moot point

I don't know that anyone "must simply support him" anymore than he must do any of the myriad of things people suggest here, but I hear what you're saying.

I hope not either. The music industry w/o Prince would be..well, non existant, for me at least! But I know alot of religions that think the entertainment industry is basically satanic! I don't think that Prince's music is bad for him, not even when it was sexual, but he may be being "advised" it is.

Perhaps...but he did so many things that no one else supported or would have done. If he was afraid, he sure didn't let it stop him. Prince has shown us what it means to really express yourself and do what you feel you want to do...no matter what anyone else thinks. Were you making a blanket statement about him being afraid, or did you have specifics in mind?

Prince has set the bar exceptionally high on several fronts through his work and life, which tends to mean that he's held to a much higher standard than most.

Most often this happens musically and creatively, but in some ways I would also say spiritually.

Yes, he's already done what most would not, but I see the potential for him to break through to yet another level, which was effectively what I meant when I referred to that time as an era not to be missed.

I agree! With Prince...the best is yet to come!!

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

robinhood said:

who is driving ur ship? your ego? or your spirit?

ego believes it is the most superior navigator, when spirit is, always has been, and always will be the supreme navigator

imo being one's true self has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with spirit

not sure you or i or anyone else here can say prince is being his true self simply because he 'might' be where he wants to be?

our personal perspective of prince isnt necessarily a fact either - for all we know he could be technically insane and outright lost

just cuz someone looks like they've got it together on the outside doesnt mean they have

And on the flip side...who are you to say he ISN'T being his true self?

where have i said that? you asked a question and i pointed out the two different 'guides' we refer to as human beings

your personal perspective on prince is not automatically a fact, nor is it written in stone that everyone else should think the same way you do

you will never be able to make anyone conform to your perspective of prince no matter how much you try to shut them down with rants and the over-use of the exclamation mark

i'm really happy for you that you have a positive outlook on prince, but this thread isnt about any of that

and like i said: prince could be technically insane and totally lost and fact is, you wouldnt know if that were true or not, you only know what you want to believe.

ok, i think the man i never met and know almost nothing about was only really himself when he released 'lovesexy'.

kidding.

if he wrote the song, then that's him. No? He doesn't strike me as the type to write and sing things he doesn't believe in.

So i guess i vote for all of it.

ok well i think i've made up my mind

for me it is for you

The Black Album

godlover said:

The Black Album

ok well this opens up a whole new can of worms for me

you think prince's true nature is dark and evil ?

not that i think the black album is dark and evil but is this the album he apologized for?

robinhood said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

And on the flip side...who are you to say he ISN'T being his true self?

where have i said that? you asked a question and i pointed out the two different 'guides' we refer to as human beings

your personal perspective on prince is not automatically a fact, nor is it written in stone that everyone else should think the same way you do

you will never be able to make anyone conform to your perspective of prince no matter how much you try to shut them down with rants and the over-use of the exclamation mark

i'm really happy for you that you have a positive outlook on prince, but this thread isnt about any of that

and like i said: prince could be technically insane and totally lost and fact is, you wouldnt know if that were true or not, you only know what you want to believe.

Why is it that so called "fans" want to talk so negativiely about a man that they claim to love? I'm not saying "my opinion" is fact. I said go by what Prince said. I just think when asking such personal questions, we should refer to Prince mostly when answering it. WE can only go by what he says. Since neither you nor I know him or are qualified to answer. I just hate it when people also assume because Prince is now a JW that he isn't himself or all the other negatives. Since I happen to understand his conversion, I think people are being unfair to him, judging him just because he is on a quest to build a relationship with GOD. That's who he is, and if you're a fan of the man, you have to deal with it. I have every right to post on this and every forum just like you. So whether you like it or not, I'm going to defend Prince, because I really am a FAN!

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Why is it that so called "fans" want to talk so negativiely about a man that they claim to love? I'm not saying "my opinion" is fact. I said go by what Prince said. I just think when asking such personal questions, we should refer to Prince mostly when answering it. WE can only go by what he says. Since neither you nor I know him or are qualified to answer. I just hate it when people also assume because Prince is now a JW that he isn't himself or all the other negatives. Since I happen to understand his conversion, I think people are being unfair to him, judging him just because he is on a quest to build a relationship with GOD. That's who he is, and if you're a fan of the man, you have to deal with it. I have every right to post on this and every forum just like you. So whether you like it or not, I'm going to defend Prince, because I really am a FAN!

i hear u loud n clear daphne, by all means yes, you can say whatever you like, so can other people

when i read negative opinions of prince it doesnt bother me, similarly it doesnt bother me when people say positive things about him

my point to you was, i never said he wasnt being his true self, but i never said he was either

this thread is based on our opinion only, as is stated in the title:

in your opinion, which al...y himself?

i deliberately started the title with 'in your opinion' because i am aware that no one here can answer the question as a fact

just as no one here can judge his conversion to the JW organization as being either negative or positive, nor can anyone state that they 'understand' his conversion unless they have spoken with him about it personally

in my opinion, 'for you' rings true, some say 'controversy', some say the 'black album'

i think it's been interesting to see our answers to this question.

*

[Edited 9/9/10 21:42pm]

robinhood said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

And on the flip side...who are you to say he ISN'T being his true self?

where have i said that? you asked a question and i pointed out the two different 'guides' we refer to as human beings

your personal perspective on prince is not automatically a fact, nor is it written in stone that everyone else should think the same way you do

you will never be able to make anyone conform to your perspective of prince no matter how much you try to shut them down with rants and the over-use of the exclamation mark

i'm really happy for you that you have a positive outlook on prince, but this thread isnt about any of that

and like i said: prince could be technically insane and totally lost and fact is, you wouldnt know if that were true or not, you only know what you want to believe.

I agree with you Roninhood-want and self are two entirely different things. Probably why teenage years are the worst. We may go thu phases coz we are happy coz we may have achieved "Conformity" "Acceptance" "Anorexia" "A shag" but the spirit is far different-we all know when we are lying to ourselves and it will eventually bite.

To me I don't know when Prince was truly himself. To me Prince has always been searching. Even now I see his JW faith (which I don't believe he will leave) slipping in it's discipline.

Prince is an odd beast in the sense that however we can go on about sales figures etc, it is in my eyes hard to find anybody that successful and that avante garde. It must be weird for an individual to be that famous and probably wants to be that famous and yet to be constantly judged on artistic/genius creativity. It is not a relationship that usually pans out. I think Prince must have a constant dilemma. Personal identity must be very difficult.

I alomost feel this question is "When do you hope Prince was truly himself?". Let's just hope he knows coz I'll tell you what I couldn't answer this question for myself

jcurley said:

I agree with you Roninhood-want and self are two entirely different things. Probably why teenage years are the worst. We may go thu phases coz we are happy coz we may have achieved "Conformity" "Acceptance" "Anorexia" "A shag" but the spirit is far different-we all know when we are lying to ourselves and it will eventually bite.

To me I don't know when Prince was truly himself. To me Prince has always been searching. Even now I see his JW faith (which I don't believe he will leave) slipping in it's discipline.

Prince is an odd beast in the sense that however we can go on about sales figures etc, it is in my eyes hard to find anybody that successful and that avante garde. It must be weird for an individual to be that famous and probably wants to be that famous and yet to be constantly judged on artistic/genius creativity. It is not a relationship that usually pans out. I think Prince must have a constant dilemma. Personal identity must be very difficult.

I alomost feel this question is "When do you hope Prince was truly himself?". Let's just hope he knows coz I'll tell you what I couldn't answer this question for myself

thank you for sharing your thoughts, imo they are very insightful and caring.

20ten

millwall said:

20ten

wow ok, interesting