I am going to take a stab in the dark and say the times as well the lyrics to this song as well some of the other songs made many deeper in the thought of depression.

I remember that time period...for many it was dark.

(that's age in my face)

Spinlight said:

ernestsewell said:

It is. Emesem needs to check their Hits DVD.

So what. No one wants to watch that dumb video. There was no proper video with Prince and the band in it like all the previous videos.

Your opinion on the video itself is irrelevant. The statement was that there was no official video. Obviously there is. The content was not in question, the existence was.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

it is true that sales for multi album sets count as that number? So 'Sign' got credit for2 units for each sale. And Lotus got credit for 3 units?

no.....one sale is one sale regardless if its a single , double or triple album....what you are talking about is riaa award discs ....emancipation sold around 700,000 copies but because it was 3 discs, it was certified double platinium ...over 2 million units......what we are talking about here is sales...

blackbob said:

saying prince albums were selling poorly in the 80s is nonsense really....selling 4 to 6 million an album when he was releasing an album every year is brilliant sales.....most artists have one big album then they have smaller sales for the rest...he must have been in the top 5 biggest selling artists in the 80s overall and he was the most acclaimed so it really isnt true.....even now....prince is assured of selling a million worldwide without much publicity....not many artists sell a million albums nowadays....any record company would snap him up in a minute....

.

1999 - 6 million

atwiad - 4.5 million

parade - 4 million

sign - 4.5 million

lovesexy - 3 million

batman - 5 million

graffiti - 2.5 million

diamond - 6.5 million

.

.

those are not poor sales ...almost all artists wouldnt get near them....

[Edited 9/5/10 2:31am]

I'm pretty sure those are all-time figures, though. Not, lets say, prior to the next album being released. Prince does pretty good catalogue sales and he probably always will. There are a lot of people who are still filling out their Prince collections twenty years after the fact.

I can't believe Graffiti Bridge has ever sold 2.5 million, though.

People in general couldn't keep up with Prince at the time after Purple Rain, they just didn't understood Prince and his music, and there was a huge backlash against Prince after the We Are The World incident.

Prince was viewed by the public as weird and a spoiled superstar.

Only the loyal fans were supporting and buying Prince's albums, even in his prime years 1985-1988.

Sad really. I think SOTT should have sold a lot more, if PR sold 13 million copies, SOTT should have sold about 10 mill, but it only sold about 3-4 millions.

robertlove said:

It just was too experimantal at the time being released, like it would have been too experimental now. Just look at the popular songs in 1987, the sound of sign of the times was just sounding too different.

But does it really mather? as much as IIWYG meant too me at that time, i can understand it didn't sell well.

1987:

• La Bamba" - Los Lobos
• "La Isla Bonita" - Madonna
• "Land of Confusion" - Genesis
• "Lean on Me" - Club Nouveau
• "Let Me Be the One" - Exposé
• "Let's Wait Awhile" - Janet Jackson
• "Little Lies" - Fleetwood Mac
• "Livin' on a Prayer" - Bon Jovi (released in 1986)
• "Rhythm Is Gonna Get You" - Gloria Estefan & Miami Sound Machine
• "Shake Your Love" - Debbie Gibson
• "Bad" - Michael Jackson
• "Ballerina Girl" - Lionel Richie

There's the problem right there: Prince needed to release a single beginning with the letter 'L'!

As for the Sign o' the Times (single) video, I also was completely unaware of its existence until The Hits dvd dropped in '93... and I devoured every video show I could get my hands on back in the '80s!

I always thought of the videos from the SOTT movie as official, too. Aren't they? Mtv played 'U Got The Look' an awful lot, anyway. I thought the video titles said it was from the album, too, not the movie. But I could be wrong.

It sold what it sold b/c:

(1) Prince's popularity was scaling downward by then. He lost a ton of momentum with ATWIAD and even moreso with Parade (despite Kiss being a hit). The general music buying public was majorly turned off by Prince's departure from his 1999/Purple Rain type sound. He traded his synth/New Wave/Funk/Rock sound (the MPLS Sound) for an "arty", more refined type sound.

and

(2) Prince was still viewed as a jerk by the public for not participating in "We Are The World" and for having Big Chick stand by him when he accepted awards at the Grammys, American Music Awards, and Oscars in '85. That came off horribly and turned people off.

and

(3) SOTT started off strong with the title track as the first single but then for some inexplicable reason Prince chose "If I Was Your Girlfriend" as the follow up single. That killed the album. IIWYG is a very good song within the context of the album but its not a commercial single - kinda like say "Ballad Of Dorothy Parker". IIWYG did poorly and the album never really recovered despite "U Got The Look" and "I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man" doing well as the 3rd and 4th singles. I so wish Prince had chosen "U Got The Look" as the follow-up single instead of IIWYG. I believe SOTT would have sold much more if he had done that.

I've always thought that SOTT was Prince's last gasp of greatness and have wondered what would have happened to Prince's career if that album had done better commercially like it should have. I think it discouraged him that it didn't sell well and I also think he lost a little bit of confidence in himself. His studio engineers are on record as saying it was post-SOTT that they noticed his music was less inspired for the first time.

^ reason (1) & (2),

lol..... those were mentioned by me too, 2 posts up.

thedance said:

People in general couldn't keep up with Prince at the time after Purple Rain, they just didn't understood Prince and his music, and there was a huge backlash against Prince after the We Are The World incident.

Prince was viewed by the public as weird and a spoiled superstar.

Only the loyal fans were supporting and buying Prince's albums, even in his prime years 1985-1988.

Sad really. I think SOTT should have sold a lot more, if PR sold 13 million copies, SOTT should have sold about 10 mill, but it only sold about 3-4 millions.

[Edited 9/5/10 10:48am]

thedance said:

^ reason (1) & (2),

lol..... those were mentioned by me too, 2 posts up.

Diamond and pearls sold more than purple rain? Crazy.

kdj997 said:

Diamond and pearls sold more than purple rain? Crazy.

No D&P didn't sell more than PR:

PR about 13 millions

D&P about 6 millions

blackbob said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

it is true that sales for multi album sets count as that number? So 'Sign' got credit for2 units for each sale. And Lotus got credit for 3 units?

no.....one sale is one sale regardless if its a single , double or triple album....what you are talking about is riaa award discs ....emancipation sold around 700,000 copies but because it was 3 discs, it was certified double platinium ...over 2 million units......what we are talking about here is sales...

ahhh yes, thank you for the correction.

A true comparison would be to the 1999 album (was that released twice? Two marketing pushes?)

thedance said:

kdj997 said:

Diamond and pearls sold more than purple rain? Crazy.

No D&P didn't sell more than PR:

PR about 13 millions

D&P about 6 millions

puple rain will be over 20 million sales worldwide now....

.

here is the sales figurs from a couple of years ago

worldwide - usa - international

.

1978 For You 930,000 = 550,000 + 380,000
1979 Prince 1,950,000 = 1,500,000 + 450,000
1980 Dirty Mind 2,015,000 = 1,085,000 + 930,000
1981 Controversy 2,650,000 = 1,550,000 + 1,100,000
1982 1999 6,075,000 = 4,320,000 + 1,755,000
1984 Purple Rain 19,880,000 = 14,480,000 + 5,400,000
1985 Around The World In A Day 4,585,000 = 2,845,000 + 1,740,000
1986 Parade 4,155,000 = 2,105,000 + 2,050,000
1987 Sign Of The Times 4,025,000 = 1,840,000 + 2,185,000
1988 Lovesexy 2,825,000 = 960,000 + 1,865,000
1989 Batman (Soundtrack) 4,790,000 = 2,500,000 + 2,290,000

Total 70's + 80's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
53,880,000 = 33,735,000 + 20,145,000

The 90's

1990 Graffiti Bridge 2,305,000 = 980,000 + 1,325,000
1991 Diamonds & Pearls 6,450,000 = 2,780,000 + 3,670,000
1992 Symbol 2,700,000 = 1,100,000 + 1,600,000
1993 The Hits/The B-Sides 1,000,000 = 650,000 + 350,000
1993 The Hits 1 2,750,000 = 2,000,000 + 750,000
1993 The Hits 2 2,250,000 = 1,750,000 + 500,000
1994 Come 1,000,000 = 500,000 + 500,000
1994 The Black Album 575,000 = 275,000 + 300,000
1995 The Gold Experience 900,000 = 550,000 + 350,000
1996 Chaos & Disorder 350,000 = 150,000 + 200,000
1996 Emancipation 1,200,000 = 700,000 + 500,000
1998 Crystal Ball 275,000 = 125,000 + 150,000
1998 Newpower Soul 425,000 = 225,000 + 200,000
1999 The Vault 250,000 = 125,000 + 125,000
1999 Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 750,000 = 500,000 + 250,000

^ Thank U, Blackbob...

ernestsewell said:

Spinlight said:

So what. No one wants to watch that dumb video. There was no proper video with Prince and the band in it like all the previous videos.

Your opinion on the video itself is irrelevant. The statement was that there was no official video. Obviously there is. The content was not in question, the existence was.

No, it's entirely relevant whether or not Prince appears in the promo video. Hence there being 2 "Money Don't Matter 2night" videos.

It did as well as it could, okay it didn't sell Purple Rain numbers, but like everyone says, no artist except Michael Jackson could repeat those figures again and again. What Sign did do was more impressive

1. Maintained his core base of fans

2. Maintained and gained Critical respect

3. Actually straddled the boundaries of Black and White musical forms

4. Reached beyond the boundaries of popular chart music.

5. Cemented his iconic status in Europe (Particularly the liberal northern countries)

6. Proved his infallibility after a band breakup, relationship breakup and the fact he had several arguments with Warner Brothers over it

7. The fact the album is still seen as a masterpiece over 20 years later (Many people judge it as the greatest album of 1987 and even the 80s)

8. Set a benchmark, that no other Prince Album has ever matched (Although Gold Experience and 3121 came darn close).

9. One of the most musically adventurous records ever made.

10. Was quite successful on the charts, Two Top 3 singles, 3 Top 10 hits.

11. The album was not selling a movie or vice versa, the moie came 8 months later and was only a minor success,(Despite the fact it was flawless).

Whereas all Purple Rain did was

1. Made him appeal to a lot of fickle fairweather fans

2. Prince fans already knew Purple Rain was brilliant

3. The success of it in Non US territories was far less than in the USA. He still wasn't that big in Europe, his star there only climbed after the Parade Tour, I mean when Doves Cry only hit #4 in the UK.

Prince himself said a lot of people only dug Purple Rain because it was a hit. And that the 3 million people who bought Around a World in a day, probably bought 1999 as well.

Huggiebear said:

It did as well as it could, okay it didn't sell Purple Rain numbers, but like everyone says, no artist except Michael Jackson could repeat those figures again and again. What Sign did do was more impressive

1. Maintained his core base of fans

2. Maintained and gained Critical respect

3. Actually straddled the boundaries of Black and White musical forms

4. Reached beyond the boundaries of popular chart music.

5. Cemented his iconic status in Europe (Particularly the liberal northern countries)

6. Proved his infallibility after a band breakup, relationship breakup and the fact he had several arguments with Warner Brothers over it

7. The fact the album is still seen as a masterpiece over 20 years later (Many people judge it as the greatest album of 1987 and even the 80s)

8. Set a benchmark, that no other Prince Album has ever matched (Although Gold Experience and 3121 came darn close).

9. One of the most musically adventurous records ever made.

10. Was quite successful on the charts, Two Top 3 singles, 3 Top 10 hits.

11. The album was not selling a movie or vice versa, the moie came 8 months later and was only a minor success,(Despite the fact it was flawless).

Whereas all Purple Rain did was

1. Made him appeal to a lot of fickle fairweather fans

2. Prince fans already knew Purple Rain was brilliant

3. The success of it in Non US territories was far less than in the USA. He still wasn't that big in Europe, his star there only climbed after the Parade Tour, I mean when Doves Cry only hit #4 in the UK.

Prince himself said a lot of people only dug Purple Rain because it was a hit. And that the 3 million people who bought Around a World in a day, probably bought 1999 as well.

just to add to this....after sign....he had five number one albums out of six in the uk... ...and number one albums across europe....sign made him in europe in the same way purple rain did in the usa...

[Edited 9/6/10 5:40am]

It's funny that people wonder why SOTT sold poorly. The reason was obvious and you can ask anyone who was into mainstream pop and was either in high school at the time...

The album just didn't seem that good or fun. Outside of the title song, Housequake (the most obvious single), and U Got the Look... listening to the album seemed dreary, robotic, and weird to many people.

I remember listening to it with some friends in 1987 (as freshmen in college) and one girl asking "Why is Janet Jackson's album so much more fun to listen to then Prince's?"

and then when "Slow Love" came on.... "Why would he even put something like this on there? Yuck."

There you have it. Answers to "Why did Sign of the times sell so poorly?"

Professionally speaking if they had followed "SOTT" with "Housequake" followed by U Got the look, with "Hot Thing" as "Housequake"'s b-side and the "I Could Never Take the Place" as "U Got the Look"'s b-side...

then I think they wold have maintained a good momentum. Also they needed commercial videos for all the songs (Like "U Got the Look") with little vague narratives.

PS I'm basing that idea of Housequake being the next single and video based off of the fact that I personally saw that even stoned heavy metal guys that accidentally heard Housequake nodded and thought it was entertaining.

ufoclub said:

It's funny that people wonder why SOTT sold poorly. The reason was obvious ...

The album just didn't seem that good or fun.

I remember listening to it with some friends in 1987 (as freshmen in college) and one girl asking "Why is Janet Jackson's album so much more fun to listen to then Prince's?"

Well I gotta agree, mainstream audiences were already pretty dumb during the late-80s. I guess people prefered Black Cat over Housequake , or Miss You Much over Dorothy Parker...

JoeTyler said:

ufoclub said:

It's funny that people wonder why SOTT sold poorly. The reason was obvious ...

The album just didn't seem that good or fun.

I remember listening to it with some friends in 1987 (as freshmen in college) and one girl asking "Why is Janet Jackson's album so much more fun to listen to then Prince's?"

Well I gotta agree, mainstream audiences were already pretty dumb during the late-80s. I guess people prefered Black Cat over Housequake , or Miss You Much over Dorothy Parker...

No one I know liked "Black Cat"! But everyone like "Nasty Boys" or "What Have You done for Me Lately". You gotta admit the one two punch of listening to that opening sequence on that album is just pure top 40 fun that seems to accelerate. But yeah, top 40 was never about the most intellegient music, it was about the most catchy and appealing music that hooked into the culture of the time.

and "Housequake" wasn't pushed (the worst mistake)... neither was "Ballad of Dorothy Parker".

And the folks I heard from weren't all dumb mainstream folk, but were rather artistic types that enjoyed following pop stuff, but were more into David Bowie or punk stuff. The others were people entering college that were not artistic, but rather not too concerned about music.

Wildboy said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Heavens above. No US tour. The world must stop!

Spoken with the type of jealousy I've come to expect from non US citizens

But I saw the SOTT tour. Whos jealous now?

Yeah it's simple, lack of a crowd pleasing single and lack of a great video. The title track, while quite melodic, was too heavy. And while I agree "Housequake" should have been a single, it still was not on the "Kiss" level in terms of hit material. So it was meant to sell poorly, especially because both ATWIAD and Parade already sold "poorly" compared to PR and the competition...

By the way, I think back then MTV sold albums, not a tour, a tour was just a bonus, unlike now. It definitely wouldn't have changed the fortunes of SOTT in the US.

Oh and among the 1987 releases, in the US the Whitney album outsold Bad in the end.

NouveauDance said:

Besides the cost of a double LP, no tour and losing the momentum long ago from Purple Rain, poor second single choice, he also cut it loose way too early in favour of another poorly selling LP. SOTT could've had at least 2 or 3 more singles than it did. No promo, no tour it all adds up.

I agree.Prince gave up on this album too soon.One of the Warner execs said that they wanted more time with this album,they wanted to release more singles.But by the end of '87,Prince had moved on to the 'Black Album' and 'Lovesexy'.

Things would have been so much different if Prince had chosen a more conventional second single and launched a US tour in the fall of '87.

It was nominated for album of the year at the Grammy's but lost out to U2's "Joshua Tree". It had critical success and is considered one of the greatest albums of all time on various lists.

It had stood the test of time... and that's all that matters.

mancabdriver said:

is considered one of the greatest albums of all time on various lists.

It had stood the test of time... and that's all that matters.

ufoclub said:

It's funny that people wonder why SOTT sold poorly. The reason was obvious and you can ask anyone who was into mainstream pop and was either in high school at the time...

The album just didn't seem that good or fun. Outside of the title song, Housequake (the most obvious single), and U Got the Look... listening to the album seemed dreary, robotic, and weird to many people.

I remember listening to it with some friends in 1987 (as freshmen in college) and one girl asking "Why is Janet Jackson's album so much more fun to listen to then Prince's?"

and then when "Slow Love" came on.... "Why would he even put something like this on there? Yuck."

There you have it. Answers to "Why did Sign of the times sell so poorly?"

Professionally speaking if they had followed "SOTT" with "Housequake" followed by U Got the look, with "Hot Thing" as "Housequake"'s b-side and the "I Could Never Take the Place" as "U Got the Look"'s b-side...

then I think they wold have maintained a good momentum. Also they needed commercial videos for all the songs (Like "U Got the Look") with little vague narratives.

I felt and still feel this way about the album. Slow Love, Adore, IIWYG, Forever in my life, even It... just really slow down the tempo of the album...

SOTT(album) always felt a little dreary to me.

[Edited 9/7/10 7:35am]

hhhhdmt said:

Why did Sign of the times sell so poorly?

Easy... it didn't.

Sign O' The Times actually sold very well when taken in context with all his other albums.

In fact, I'd say it sold extremely well by comparison, as double albums usually don't sell as well as single albums do. So you would normally expect to see a dip in sales for double albums, but Sign O' The Times actually sold virtually as well as it's predecessor Parade and much better than it's follow-up Lovesexy.

crazydoctor said:

I felt and still feel this way about the album. Slow Love, Adore, IIWYG, Forever in my life, even It... just really slow down the tempo of the album...

SOTT(album) always felt a little dreary to me.

I hate to admit it, but there was a point where I began to feel the same way. And I later realized what that point was: when I made the switch to the lackluster, flat-sounding compact disc.

If there's any way you can experience this album on vinyl, I highly recommend you take the opportunity... you're in for an awesome experience!