Here's the comment from Burton on Burton.

Hmm. It's a little bit contradictory. First he says that he had "actually used music by Prince for those scenes" during the making of the movie. But at the end of the quote he says that the songs bring it too much into a specific time frame - if they had used "1999" and "Baby I'm A Star" they'd had still brought the movie into "a specific time frame". Is the last paragraph supposed to be a comment on just "Partyman" and "Trust" or about the other songs from the soundtrack that are in the movie as well?

I would think that Burton used 1999 and Baby I'm A Star because they had the right vibe for Nicholson's version of the Joker for those scenes. But he'd probably intended to get Danny Elfman (or someone else) to create replacement music more in keeping with Burton's vision of the movie (more like what he did with Siouxie and the Banshees on the following movie). It's very common for pieces of existing music to be used as 'placeholders' while filming, knowing full well that they will get substituted for something else by the time the film is finished.

I would agree with Tim Burton in that Prince's music doesn't quite fit with Burton's particular visual and cinematic style. Partyman and Trust are OK, but they're a bit more lightweight than 1999 and Baby I'm A Star. They work OK, but they're not as 'dark' as I'm sure Burton would have preferred. His comments about not being able to integrate Prince's songs into the film has more to do with him trying to shoehorn in the other material Prince had written (Scandalous, Vicki Waiting, Electric Chair etc.) which had never been in the original plan for the film.

[Edited 8/28/10 14:56pm]

Tim Burton is a little much a times, like Mars Attacks Planet of the Apes, which both sucked, but I feel his Batman movies are FAR better than any that have come since, including the Christian Bale ones...I think Michael Keaton was and always will be the BEST Batman. Bale's kinda annoying...And I HATED Ledger as the Joker, he was sooo lame! The only reason people praise that role is because is DIED doing it...otherwise I highly doubt people would like it as much.

As for the soundtrack, I love a lot of the songs on that album, though I like 200 Balloons more than it's A-side lol I wouldn't be surprised if Burton didn't like having Prince doing the soundtrack, it's an odd mix of styles.

stillwaiting said:

toejam said:

All I'll add is that I was surprised in the Batman DVD commentary and special features how little TB talked about Prince and the soundtrack tie-in. I don't recall him saying anything specifically negative, but I remember getting the feeling that for TB it was just something the studio wanted, and something he had to do as a director of a big budget blockbuster. Who knows though. I'd love someone to ask him this question some time.

[Edited 8/27/10 22:20pm]

I'd ask Tim Burton how he feels about Christopher Nolan totally whipping his ass in Batman movies? Batman Begins is the best film, and the Dark Knight is the best grossing Batflick. Yes, our little Purple Yoda Guy has the best soundtrack, hands down. I wanted to like The Dark Knight as much as Begins, but despite all the praise for Heath Ledger's overacting, and everything else, I saw it as the slightly weaker of the two good Batmovies . At least Begins knew when to end. The Dark Knight was a great film for the first half, but fell victim to the Hollywood Ending Syndrome. In fact, I was wanting it to end at one point. Still, a very good film, but not the best. (Dark Knight is much much better than Tim Burton's crap job, however.)

From a crazy point of view....the Prince soundtrack alone makes Burton's hack job the best!!! Ok...just kidding, but to even suggest that shows how much I love Prince's music.

Last thing on Burton: Ed Wood is a fantastic film....and I believe his only one. Planet of the Apes alone is enough to make me think that Burton was worse in some ways then Ed Wood himself. At least Wood probably knew deep down that his movies stunk.

Burtons vision was by far better than Schumachers though.

novabrkr said:

As far as I know, Burton hasn't stated anything of the kind.

Burton just probably didn't think the movie needed more pop music than what he had already planned to use for those two scenes that have "Partyman" and "Trust" in the final movie. He had used "Baby I'm A Star" and "1999" during the shooting in the first place - so he wasn't exactly opposed to using Prince's stuff. Prince substituted two new songs for them and the rest of the album consists of music that he was working at the same time.

This is just one of those "I remember reading from somewhere" type of threads.

Co-sign !!

rainbowchild said:

Tim is just upset with Prince because Kim Basinger preferred Prince over him.

Yeah, that makes total fucking sense.

MrNorway said:

I think Scandalous, Vicky Waiting, Lemon Crush and Arms of Orion are very good songs - but I agree that the rest of the tracks rightfully could´ve been replaced with stronger tracks to make a better album.

And yet, the songs that were featured prominently during the action was "Partyman" and "Trust". It just goes to show that soundtrack songs should be written with scenes in mind.

It was Danny Elfman that really made the score what it needed to be (great CD by the way).

Also, I don't buy that claim about Jack Nicholson insisting on Prince, like that would have made a difference. I am guessing it had more to do with Warner Brothers' (record label and movie studio) power over the production.

rainbowchild said:

Tim is just upset with Prince because Kim Basinger preferred Prince over him.

JoeTyler said:

Tim Burton is a nerd who makes nerdy movies sustained by a nerdy cult following. His word is worthless for me...

Batman is still his best movie, mainly because it was a studio project, and not one of his personal crappy/nerdy projects...

and the Prince songs fit PERFECTLY well, specially Partyman and Trust... I strongly believe Prince's songs gave the film a modern, urban edge...en edge lost during the crappy, gothic and silly Batman Returns, with that overblown Elfman score...

Totally disagree. Tim Burton and Elfman are a prefect match and the many collaborations they did prove how well they all blend together. I like Prince's Batman songs but they just don't blend well with the feel of the movie. The outtake "dance with the Devil" would have been better suited to blend with the project.

By the time the Batman CD came out, I noticed that both in the press and the general public, Prince's reputation as being cutting edge was fading fast. His Batman album was regarded as too commercial and not edgy enough. So I doubt very much that his songs are contributing anything to the succes of the movie.

Burtons has delivered some marvelous movies; Charlie & TCF, Corpse Bride, Sleepy Hollow...

It's a bit cheap that as soon as someone MIGHT have POSSIBLY not liked something Prince did to be used in his own project, they are considered as untalented losers.

Have a look at the artistic merrit of Prince his latest projects, and projects where he tried to improve or steer other people's work. He killed a song by Kate Bush,... Appolonia, Carmen Electra, the MAyte album, the Bria project are all items where any serious music fan should think "what the hell was the point of this crap". Just to show that P's involvement with other artists is far from a guaranteed succes. Sometimes it's a question of bad choices, and sometimes things don't match up, depsite all parties strong points.

zobilamouche said:

The outtake "dance with the Devil" would have been better suited to blend with the project.

By the time the Batman CD came out, I noticed that both in the press and the general public, Prince's reputation as being cutting edge was fading fast.

My goodness, that song is dark and creepy. Oddly, it may have been the edgy appeal that Prince needed at that time but was snuffed out.

JoeTyler said:

with that overblown Elfman score...

Actually for the type of movie it's part of, I think the Batman score is one of Elfman's more subtle scores on his resume. Sure there are some big moments, but there are really quiet moments in that score, and overall he IS a good fit to work with Burton, even on a Batman movie.

mblevels said:

The first song I thought fit in the film at that scene was Trust, but when I heard the line: "What makes you a real lover" at that scene, I started laughing. The lyrics didn't match at all, I still can't believe 200 Balloons didn't make it

Not every single word in a song is always going to relate to the scene at hand. It's an "overall" thing. The Joker even quotes some of the song and says "who do you trust?" And the whole idea he's trying to convey even works for a line like "What makes you a real lover?" However, "200 Balloons" was an obvious choice, and I'm not sure why Burton wouldn't have went with the obvious choice in that.

Furthermore, the other soundtrack did fit the film, but didn't work alongside the Prince soundtrack. They sounded completely different, worked against each other and got the flow out of the movie soundtrack. And to me the only function a movie soundtrack has is to create flow and insert a certain mood in the film. The Danny Elfman soundtrack succeeded by itself, but got interrupted by the Prince songs. Prince should have collaborated with Danny Elfman to adjust the sound of the songs to each other, it might have worked out a little better.

Elfman and Prince's work did compliment each other. Prince's music had a darker edge to it. Even upbeat songs like "Partyman" or "Trust" have a grimey edge to them, and fit in the context of the film, with it's oversized gothic statues and a city where you never really see the sun shine. Elfman even used part of "Scandalous" in his score. Frankly I think Burton could have used more of the Prince music in the film in some regards. When Vicki wakes up in her apartment after her encounter w/ Batman, and he's taken her film, she could have woken up to an alarm clock radio playing a bit of "Vicki Waiting" or "Lemon Crush". Even "The Arms of Orion" could have been added as instrumental or in a smaller section somewhere. There was no reason for Elfman and Prince to work together with sounds or whatever.

The film has a lot of juxtapositions in it. Vicky wears bright clothes, has blonde hair, bright lips, whereas Bruce Wayne is always wearing darker clothes, nothing really revealing (except when he's shirtless hanging upside down at one point). He's very closed off, Vicki is wrapped in brighter fabrics. The Joker was a mix of the two, wearing high collar and heavy clothing, but still in bright colors. The music and score reflected all that. The yings and yangs of the movie are reflected in the jaunty nature of the score and the soundtrack.

ernestsewell said:

mblevels said:

The first song I thought fit in the film at that scene was Trust, but when I heard the line: "What makes you a real lover" at that scene, I started laughing. The lyrics didn't match at all, I still can't believe 200 Balloons didn't make it

Not every single word in a song is always going to relate to the scene at hand. It's an "overall" thing. The Joker even quotes some of the song and says "who do you trust?" And the whole idea he's trying to convey even works for a line like "What makes you a real lover?" However, "200 Balloons" was an obvious choice, and I'm not sure why Burton wouldn't have went with the obvious choice in that.

Furthermore, the other soundtrack did fit the film, but didn't work alongside the Prince soundtrack. They sounded completely different, worked against each other and got the flow out of the movie soundtrack. And to me the only function a movie soundtrack has is to create flow and insert a certain mood in the film. The Danny Elfman soundtrack succeeded by itself, but got interrupted by the Prince songs. Prince should have collaborated with Danny Elfman to adjust the sound of the songs to each other, it might have worked out a little better.

Elfman and Prince's work did compliment each other. Prince's music had a darker edge to it. Even upbeat songs like "Partyman" or "Trust" have a grimey edge to them, and fit in the context of the film, with it's oversized gothic statues and a city where you never really see the sun shine. Elfman even used part of "Scandalous" in his score. Frankly I think Burton could have used more of the Prince music in the film in some regards. When Vicki wakes up in her apartment after her encounter w/ Batman, and he's taken her film, she could have woken up to an alarm clock radio playing a bit of "Vicki Waiting" or "Lemon Crush". Even "The Arms of Orion" could have been added as instrumental or in a smaller section somewhere. There was no reason for Elfman and Prince to work together with sounds or whatever.

The film has a lot of juxtapositions in it. Vicky wears bright clothes, has blonde hair, bright lips, whereas Bruce Wayne is always wearing darker clothes, nothing really revealing (except when he's shirtless hanging upside down at one point). He's very closed off, Vicki is wrapped in brighter fabrics. The Joker was a mix of the two, wearing high collar and heavy clothing, but still in bright colors. The music and score reflected all that. The yings and yangs of the movie are reflected in the jaunty nature of the score and the soundtrack.

Great points. Sometimes artists are not the best sources to evaluate their own work (check any Prince interview).

I have a question about 200 Balloons: I know the song was written before the movie and then used as part of Batdance, which it was then the b-side to. But was the song always called 200 Balloons? In the movie, Gotham City is celebrating its 200th anniversary, so the title fits. Just wondering if Prince changed the title to match the movie, if the movie was adapted to contain the 200th anniversary to go with the song, or neither.

Baby I'm A Star and 1999 would have had a much bigger impact in the film.

I like the Batman soundtrack, I like The future, Electric Chair and the nutty Batdance. None of which made much of an impact in the movie. They stuck with Prince and those songs for the same bad reason all bad choices are made. Inside politics and pandering, instead of the best songs for the project.

I like Tim Burton I think he is a good director, but not a great director. He excels at the visual but lacks in the narative and the emotional connect of a film. What he excels at, He excels above and beyond everybody in the medium, but that is only less than half the ingredients that make a great director.

At least when Bruce Wayne has his big mansion party, Burton used "Electric Chair".

Efan said:

I have a question about 200 Balloons: I know the song was written before the movie and then used as part of Batdance, which it was then the b-side to. But was the song always called 200 Balloons? In the movie, Gotham City is celebrating its 200th anniversary, so the title fits. Just wondering if Prince changed the title to match the movie, if the movie was adapted to contain the 200th anniversary to go with the song, or neither.

The script always comes first, so I'm sure the Gotham 200th anniversary was written first - good catch BTW!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...nce#B-side

Cinnie said:

zobilamouche said:

The outtake "dance with the Devil" would have been better suited to blend with the project.

By the time the Batman CD came out, I noticed that both in the press and the general public, Prince's reputation as being cutting edge was fading fast.

My goodness, that song is dark and creepy. Oddly, it may have been the edgy appeal that Prince needed at that time but was snuffed out.

Actually, Prince himself decided to replace the too-dark "Dance With The Devil" with "Batdance". So yeah, if it seemed like he was losing his edge, it was his own doing. Not a huge surprise there either.

This soundtrack album was truly the beginning of the end of Prince as musical greatness. Its a slapped-together mess not worthy of any of his prior albums.

Prince went for the quick cash and lost both: his artistic credibility and his muse!

funkomatic said:

Prince went for the quick cash and lost both: his artistic credibility and his muse!

Wow the music for Batman fits the film really well and it is one of the few times P really did do a great job fitting the music with the film. He did not lose any credibility with this project and why are fans carping about it 20 years later. The truth of the matter is more people in the U.S remember P for Batman than they do Lovesexy which was a hugh bomb in the U.S. He needed to sell some records and get back into the public eye. I honestly think if P listened to his so-called fanbase he would be performing at the Maryland state fair this weekend as many seem clueless on how the industry works.

The Batman project was Princes downfall, it was the beginning of the end as far as I was concerned, the songs just didn't fit the film.

vi0letblues said:

Baby I'm A Star and 1999 would have had a much bigger impact in the film.

I like the Batman soundtrack, I like The future, Electric Chair and the nutty Batdance. None of which made much of an impact in the movie. They stuck with Prince and those songs for the same bad reason all bad choices are made. Inside politics and pandering, instead of the best songs for the project.

I like Tim Burton I think he is a good director, but not a great director. He excels at the visual but lacks in the narative and the emotional connect of a film. What he excels at, He excels above and beyond everybody in the medium, but that is only less than half the ingredients that make a great director.

Baby I'm A Star and 1999 those two songs do not fit in the movie at all.

laurarichardson said:

funkomatic said:

Prince went for the quick cash and lost both: his artistic credibility and his muse!

Wow the music for Batman fits the film really well and it is one of the few times P really did do a great job fitting the music with the film. He did not lose any credibility with this project and why are fans carping about it 20 years later. The truth of the matter is more people in the U.S remember P for Batman than they do Lovesexy which was a hugh bomb in the U.S. He needed to sell some records and get back into the public eye. I honestly think if P listened to his so-called fanbase he would be performing at the Maryland state fair this weekend as many seem clueless on how the industry works.

Nah.....the Batman soundtrack is quite naff as far as I'm concernerned and is the 1st time he sold out. He didn't do his legacy any favours with this crock of s**t.....

Strutter said:

laurarichardson said:

Wow the music for Batman fits the film really well and it is one of the few times P really did do a great job fitting the music with the film. He did not lose any credibility with this project and why are fans carping about it 20 years later. The truth of the matter is more people in the U.S remember P for Batman than they do Lovesexy which was a hugh bomb in the U.S. He needed to sell some records and get back into the public eye. I honestly think if P listened to his so-called fanbase he would be performing at the Maryland state fair this weekend as many seem clueless on how the industry works.

Nah.....the Batman soundtrack is quite naff as far as I'm concernerned and is the 1st time he sold out. He didn't do his legacy any favours with this crock of s**t.....

You do not do your legacy any favors when your previous project is a hugh disaster. P worked for WB his job was to move some product. This project saved his ass and some fans need to see it for what it was.

[Edited 8/29/10 16:32pm]

laurarichardson said:

Strutter said:

Nah.....the Batman soundtrack is quite naff as far as I'm concernerned and is the 1st time he sold out. He didn't do his legacy any favours with this crock of s**t.....

You do not do your legacy any favors when your previous project is a hugh disaster. P worked for WB his job was to move some product. This project saved his ass and some fans need to see it for what it was.

[Edited 8/29/10 16:32pm]

Lovesexy was his last great work of art, proper prince stuff. Batman had a few good tracks ( The Future, Electric Chair, Trust) and thats about it....

Strutter said:

laurarichardson said:

You do not do your legacy any favors when your previous project is a hugh disaster. P worked for WB his job was to move some product. This project saved his ass and some fans need to see it for what it was.

[Edited 8/29/10 16:32pm]

Lovesexy was his last great work of art, proper prince stuff. Batman had a few good tracks ( The Future, Electric Chair, Trust) and thats about it....

In Europe people feel that way about "Lovesexy" in the states the cd could not be given away for free and the cover made him the butt of jokes. To this day I do not listen to it and I do have those great tracks from Batman on my IPOD but nothing from Lovesexy and I would bet that outside of P's independent CDs it is the least known or liked CD in the states Sometimes what the masses like matters as the "Lovesexy" project proved you can only go so far out on a limb in the music industry without damaging yourself.

laurarichardson said:

Strutter said:

Lovesexy was his last great work of art, proper prince stuff. Batman had a few good tracks ( The Future, Electric Chair, Trust) and thats about it....

In Europe people feel that way about "Lovesexy" in the states the cd could not be given away for free and the cover made him the butt of jokes. To this day I do not listen to it and I do have those great tracks from Batman on my IPOD but nothing from Lovesexy and I would bet that outside of P's independent CDs it is the least known or liked CD in the states Sometimes what the masses like matters as the "Lovesexy" project proved you can only go so far out on a limb in the music industry without damaging yourself.

No no no.... lovesexy is a classic, it wasn't done for money, just pure love..... it was pure Prince, a classic time to be a fan

laurarichardson said:

Strutter said:

Lovesexy was his last great work of art, proper prince stuff. Batman had a few good tracks ( The Future, Electric Chair, Trust) and thats about it....

In Europe people feel that way about "Lovesexy" in the states the cd could not be given away for free and the cover made him the butt of jokes. To this day I do not listen to it and I do have those great tracks from Batman on my IPOD but nothing from Lovesexy and I would bet that outside of P's independent CDs it is the least known or liked CD in the states Sometimes what the masses like matters as the "Lovesexy" project proved you can only go so far out on a limb in the music industry without damaging yourself.

You don't live in the states, then.