Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

Yeah, and also that thing when he sings like a girl.

I think the main thing is that he did everything already. He achieved his great heights. He was at the top. He experienced that. And apparently, his feeling on it was kind of a "meh" kind of feeling.

He seems to find satisfaction in his faith, and in his work, instead of being on covers of magazines and being at the top of the charts. There is nothing wrong with that.

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

I'll give you an A for the trolling effort.

Things that sunk Prince's career? HIMSELF!!! period.

32 years and still going strong on his own terms.

Graycap23 said:

32 years and still going strong on his own terms.

Thank You! Hello!!...Goodbye!!

and his arrogance

Your list is full of personal opinions rather than facts, so it should really be considered rhetorical at most.

vitriol said:

Things that sunk Prince's career? HIMSELF!!! period.

Yep, and that applies to me and everyone else I know also.

We are our worst enemy, its just a matter of degree, and choice from The Ten Commandments menu that we like to order from....not that I'm religious or anything just that it has the most popular choices.

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

Nonsense, it's considered a classic and it was critically acclaimed.

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

I think it lowered the album's sales in the USA because of retailers not wanting it, but it definitely created a lot of publicity 4 him.

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

Ok, i'll give you this one But WB did so little around the film that i think the general public wasn't aware of it so the damage was quite small.

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

Lotsa bad publicity back then, but still lots of publicity. I think it was a smart move. What wasn't was to get back to the Prince name

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

Yeah. Well... who cared about that really?

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

I don't think anyone noticed or cared about it except 4 us fans.

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

NPGMC started well. If not 4 people who had middle-age internet connections and started to ask for CD-roms, the website was totally satisfiying up until year 2. After that... well, ok, it was a complete disaster. But the general public still see him as an internet innovator more than the internet failure he later became (and hopefully will cease to be one day).

Nothing wrong with being content with urself and life!

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

Garbage threads are never hard to find on this site

Graycap23 said:

32 years and still going strong on his own terms.

what exactly are his terms really??? flat out his music now sucks big time... no one buys it anymore...he's becoming a joke..

databank said:

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

Nonsense, it's considered a classic and it was critically acclaimed. yes raspberry beret?? they'll be talking about that POS for the rest of our lives!!

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

I think it lowered the album's sales in the USA because of retailers not wanting it, but it definitely created a lot of publicity 4 him. not only that...there was no commerical singles for that album...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

Ok, i'll give you this one But WB did so little around the film that i think the general public wasn't aware of it so the damage was quite small. wb ran and hid from that diaster!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

Lotsa bad publicity back then, but still lots of publicity. I think it was a smart move. What wasn't was to get back to the Prince name yes but to believe his name was a symbol?? get real...

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

Yeah. Well... who cared about that really? looked stupid...he signed the contract...that fiasco was his own fault...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

I don't think anyone noticed or cared about it except 4 us fans.

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

NPGMC started well. If not 4 people who had middle-age internet connections and started to ask for CD-roms, the website was totally satisfiying up until year 2. After that... well, ok, it was a complete disaster. But the general public still see him as an internet innovator more than the internet failure he later became (and hopefully will cease to be one day).

ernestsewell said:

Your list is full of personal opinions rather than facts, so it should really be considered rhetorical at most.

1) how many albums did ATWIAD sell??? less that 3 million?? this was to be the HUGE follow up to PR?? "Fact"

2) a grown man still considered "pop" posing semi-naked = 1 million albums sold "Fact"

3)GB movie made less than 3 million dollars on opening week = flop "fact"

shall we continue??

avasdad said:

ernestsewell said:

Your list is full of personal opinions rather than facts, so it should really be considered rhetorical at most.

1) how many albums did ATWIAD sell??? less that 3 million?? this was to be the HUGE follow up to PR?? "Fact"

2) a grown man still considered "pop" posing semi-naked = 1 million albums sold "Fact"

3)GB movie made less than 3 million dollars on opening week = flop "fact"

shall we continue??

The Lovesexy cover is possibly his single most iconic and beautiful image. I can't imagine his career without it and I think it's easily his best album cover.

after sign o the times, prince career died

avasdad said:

ernestsewell said:

Your list is full of personal opinions rather than facts, so it should really be considered rhetorical at most.

1) how many albums did ATWIAD sell??? less that 3 million?? this was to be the HUGE follow up to PR?? "Fact"

2) a grown man still considered "pop" posing semi-naked = 1 million albums sold "Fact"

3)GB movie made less than 3 million dollars on opening week = flop "fact"

shall we continue??

Who cares about record sales? Around the World in a Day was a great album.

avasdad said:

ernestsewell said:

Your list is full of personal opinions rather than facts, so it should really be considered rhetorical at most.

1) how many albums did ATWIAD sell??? less that 3 million?? this was to be the HUGE follow up to PR?? "Fact"

2) a grown man still considered "pop" posing semi-naked = 1 million albums sold "Fact"

3)GB movie made less than 3 million dollars on opening week = flop "fact"

shall we continue??

Yes, let's continue, and let me school you for a hot second.

1) Prince's rate of selling records before and after the enigma that was Purple Rain stayed pretty much consistent. Prince sold, on average anywhere between two and five million records, give or take, up to, and after Purple Rain. Dirty Mind barely made gold status (a minor feat when he can't even seem to reach today without snookering SoundScan). It's like holding every Madonna album against Like A Prayer or every Michael Jackson album against Thriller. If you choose to practice unfair comparisons, be ready for the retort against that. ATWIAD was Prince's second #1 album, PR being the first. Yeah, he hadn't had a #1 album to that point. He only had 3 #1 songs, and they weren't even on the main Billboard Top 40 chart. They were on the R&B and Dance charts. Take out the factor of PR, and his record pretty much stayed the same.

2) What's "grown"? Prince was 30 when Lovesexy came out. There are fucking Chippendale dancers older than that, who look just as good as they did at 20. He was naked on the For You, Prince albums, and was near naked on the front of Dirty Mind. He showed his ass, quite literally, inside the 1999 album, and showed near everything in a poster w/ the Controversy album. If I looked like that at 30, I would have posed naked too. Good for him for doing what he wanted to do - something fans used to celebrate and now they come along and decide to chop up the past. Listen baby, sexuality is all you'll never need, so dance on. And let's examine the fact that you called him a pansie because he was sitting near or on a flower? So - men can't have anything to do with flowers? Perhaps you should have never been a fan. He dropped hundreds of huge mums and carnations during each Purple Rain show. The stage was lined w/ flowers at other shows, including the PR tour and the SOTT tour. Flowers were all over during the second act of the Lovesexy Tour. And OMG don't forget how he had a flower as a CD case for "TMBGITW" single, and to boot it was a VALENTINE'S DAY CARD! OH THE HORROR! Frankly, your statement is a little homophobic. Makes me wonder if you're not just a troll trying to get a rise out of folks, rather than really being any sort of Prince fan past loving "When Doves Cry".

3) No one is ever going to say GB was a hit, including me.

You obviously had no real idea what Prince or was trying to accomplish with the "SLAVE" thing or whatever. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but at least pretend to understand the fact that he saw it as a struggle. Until you have a record contract, and work for a company for eons and leave with nothing you created - shut up.

Who cares if he said the internet is dead. Seriously, that's your beef?

Prince sold Crystal Ball, Rave In2 The Joy Fantasic (which I bought from NPGMC without one problem), NewPowerPak, and other music (including a lot of his past catalog at one time) through his site(s). Fans bought it over and over. There are still things that were released via his website that were never put out to the general public. That makes them collector's items for hardcore fans. If you don't want to own them, or don't like the way he does business, don't put your money toward it. Talk is cheap. But let's all gather at your pond when you get it filled and open it for cyber business.

PoppyBros said:

after sign o the times, prince career died

Not at all. SOTT had one #1 on the dance charts. The album was only #1 in Sweden. The only #1 song was "SOTT" on the R&B charts. Nothing else hardly cracked the top 10, if at all, sans "U Got The Look" which stopped at #2.

Lovesexy was a huge tour, and Batman put him back at the top of the charts w/ a #1 song, and a #1 album, his first in a couple/3 years (depending what chart you view).

The turn was in the early 90's, when he started to follow trends instead of create them. When he started inserting rap, as an after thought, into his music - a genre he once hated and said he didn't understand, that's when it all went down hill in some regards.

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem...

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie...

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!!

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy...

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin...

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites...

2. Maybe Lovesexy didn't that well in the US, but in Europe it was huge. Nobody cared about the cover, so it's pretty stupid to say it did put a nail in his coffin.

ernestsewell said:

PoppyBros said:

after sign o the times, prince career died

Not at all. SOTT had one #1 on the dance charts. The album was only #1 in Sweden. The only #1 song was "SOTT" on the R&B charts. Nothing else hardly cracked the top 10, if at all, sans "U Got The Look" which stopped at #2.

Lovesexy was a huge tour, and Batman put him back at the top of the charts w/ a #1 song, and a #1 album, his first in a couple/3 years (depending what chart you view).

The turn was in the early 90's, when he started to follow trends instead of create them. When he started inserting rap, as an after thought, into his music - a genre he once hated and said he didn't understand, that's when it all went down hill in some regards.

facts

SOTT had 3 top 10 hits, 2 of which you named, so saying "nothing else [but the title track] hardly cracked the top 10" is already contratradicted by your own words, when the second song you named actually outperformed the first on the Hot 100

the Lovesexy tour may have been huge in Europe, but reaction in the US was pretty lackluster.

the follow-up to the #1 novelty hit "Batdance" stalled at #18.

he started following trends with D&P, which spawned #1 and #3 hits, which happened after the beginning of the Soundscan era, which makes their positions all the more impressive. plus two more in the top 30.

"7" was pretty big at radio and probably would have charted much higher prior to Soundscan.

TMBGITW hit #3.

I Hate U debuted at #12 based on nothing more than anticipation.

you might be wondering why I've decided to string together a bunch of random facts, the way you have, to strain to make some kind of point. well the piont is, Prince's career didn't take a downward turn because he started following trends. Prince's mainstream and critical success, outside of Purple Rain, was always hit or miss. Prince's career took a downward turn when he went to war with his record label and damn near refused to promote his own music because of it.

by the time Warner Bros gave up on him and his shenanigans, so had the public, and when he started trying to promote his work again independently, it was too late.

[Edited 8/23/10 23:03pm]

avasdad said:

1. Name a single artist other than Prince that is still going strong, selling out stadiums wherever he goes after 32 years and still releasing great music and redefining the industry as we know it. "Sunk?" is the LAST word you can ever use to describe Prince's career.

2. Prince's moves in the past were not always money motivated. HOW EASY would it have been for him to make the follow up to Purple Rain sound exactly like it and sell another 10-15 million records. He could have done that EASILY. But he didn't want to, he wanted to move on artistically and do something else. HELL he didn't even want to put out a single from ATWIAD because he wanted people to view it as an artistic whole and not just a collection of songs. WB twisted his arm to force him to pick some singles and shoot videos for them. Plus it's an excellent album, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

3. Either you are ignorant, stupid, or a troll. For your sake, I hope it's the latter because you clearly know fuck-all about Prince or his career.

Militant said:

avasdad said:

the things that sunk Prince's career...

You should really add that you mean his COMMERCIAL career, because that's really what your list is referring to.

avasdad said:

Looking back here are some not so smart things he did that started to put the nails in his coffin...

1) AWTIAD - what a shitty follow up to a gem... Yes I agree,the only weak album in the 80s, some good trac ks but a lot of shoddy filler that reaffirmed his abilities to wibble on.

2) Lovesexy album cover - i mean really naked sitting on flowers?? what a pansie... Nah not really, he was being daring, plus the music was great.

3) Graffitti Bridge movie - do we really need to go there??? sucked moose cock!! Ok there, dreadful sequence of dated music videos and paper thin plot

4) Name change - couldnt he just fulfill his contract from the vault and create music with the NPG without 1st billing??? stupid move, oh yes, what the fuck was he thinking?

5) Slave written on his face - slaves were beaten and poor...not rich and greedy... Attention seeking stunt that blew up, the interview where he had Mayte speak for him also did it

6) Saying the internet is dead...maybe he was referring to his career?? just sayin... Oh yeah

7) his many failed attempts to sell his music through his websites... Yes, perhaps a Business 101 class would not go astray here

Main one overall though, The Dude has been drowning in his own ego for years

[Edited 8/24/10 3:46am]

[Edited 8/24/10 3:47am]

Prince's commercial value went down from Lovesexy on. It was probably the first wave of losing fans in the general public. There were highlights (commercially) like D&P but it went downhill from there and mostly due to some of his own decisions.

- The slave/contract/symbol issues were communicated in the most unclear fashion ever? For the general public he became just another big star that lost his marbles and didn't care about anymore, gossip asside.

- cutting the Symbol album in such a way that the segues became pointless and distracting. At that point it had been better to drop that story-line idea and just present the music. Having a binding look and feel is better then a confusing concept.

-Not his fault but after the death of his child, it might have been better to postpone the Emancipation release. What happened now is that he went on promoting it but dropped the songs from the live set and the whole project went down. Strong promotional start but not followed through. And the lip sunch performances were embarassing.

- He pretty much stopped making prolific videos to promote his music from mid 90s on, and POS material for shops hardly surfaced.

- Currently he gets more ink because of his business practices the for his musical output. They may very well be creative but they shouldn't outshine his musical merrits.

- And business wise, some lucrative deals asside, he drops a project when people are still eager about it. Live DVD's and CD's are rare but would be THE crucial item to maintain his credibility as an A-class artist. The TRC and ONA phase is probably the last time he had a project covered from most angles. 21 Nights in London had a nice (but short) Live CD, but no main show on either DVD or CD, and the book was a missed opportunity to show off what the 21 nights meant to fans. It became a fashion magazine that no one has any use for.

just my 2 cents