Hi orgers!

i have a question! Do u think that sign o the times could haven been a better and more succesful record, if prince had played the songs with his band in the studio, not all alone! Most of the songs sounds so dry....so lifeless!

I love sott, it was my first prince record in 1991 after watching sott movie. Before that i didnt really knew prince! He first cought my attention with Diamonds and Pearls and cream. At that time I was a in the mj dangerous hype...

anyway, after listening to the rehearsals for Sott tour with songs like dorothy, strange relationship i realised that sott could be so big, if the songs were recorded with his band! The songs sound so rich, so much better..----------------what do u think?

lol

what album are you hearing............

most of it was with a band-the revolution-which he disbanded during the making of this album

alot of the tunes went through ALOT of changes before appearing here

and it wasn't mastered brilliantly-some even say it was mastered from a cassette tape !

all that said-its still a masterpiece-from the cover to the live show-i love everything about this era

and it all started with a superb album

no offense-what sort of set up are you listening to it on......

and no-i think its perfect as is-well mabey a remaster would be good (an official one that is)

but please-to say the Revolution sound lifeless and dull

go say a million hail marys-blasphemer

:roll

[Edited 8/24/10 10:22am]

I think you're

polkadotbliss said:

lol

what album are you hearing............

most of it was with a band-the revolution-which he disbanded during the making of this album

alot of the tunes went through ALOT of changes before appearing here

maybe thats the reason they sound like a one man show...

and it wasn't mastered brilliantly-some even say it was mastered from a cassette tape !

the qaulity is really awful......

all that said-its still a masterpiece-from the cover to the live show-i love everything about this era

I also love this era and the record

and it all started with a superb album

no offense-what sort of set up are you listening to it on......

it seems that for a prince record u really need a special set up...most of his records sound shit on cds.....

and no-i think its perfect as is-well mabey a remaster would be good (an official one that is)

but please-to say the Revolution sound lifeless and dull

go say a million hail marys-blasphemer

well, most of the songs on Sott are solo performences by prince. If u look at the linernotes, read per nilsen notes and listen to the music u can hear it on most of the songs. Instead of using a real drummer, he uses most of the time a drummachine. So, a drummachine is not a band member!

Sott, Housequake, Dorothy, it, Starfish, hot thing, forever in my life, if i was , strange all are very sparse in their arrangement and would benefit from a band......As u can hear in the rehearsals.

ernestsewell said:

I think you're

I dont give a duck what u say, man! Its my opinion!

misiu said:

At that time I was a in the mj dangerous hype...

That explains a lot...

misiu said:

well, most of the songs on Sott are solo performences by prince. If u look at the linernotes, read per nilsen notes and listen to the music u can hear it on most of the songs. Instead of using a real drummer, he uses most of the time a drummachine. So, a drummachine is not a band member!

Sott, Housequake, Dorothy, it, Starfish, hot thing, forever in my life, if i was , strange all are very sparse in their arrangement and would benefit from a band......As u can hear in the rehearsals.

Prince also didn't use much of a band on any album up to that point, sans a few random songs here and there. A lot of his stuff up to that point IS all him, and non-band oriented.

The Linn drum machine is what helped define Prince's sound from 1981 onward. "Kiss" is sparse. So is "Annie Christian", "Sometimes It Snows In April", "When Doves Cry", "Paisley Park" and a ton of others. And with Prince using the Linn on tours, the Linn certainly was an extended member of the band.

You obviously haven't read enough of the history of the songs. Stuff like "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "Forever In My Life" are happy mistakes, as there were major glitches in the recording of both of those songs, yet it's the ony way we know them, and it's how Prince would still perform them live later on.

If you prefer the rehearsals, make your own album from that then.

misiu said:

ernestsewell said:

I think you're

I dont give a fuck what u say, man! Its my opinion!

You asked, and I answered. Welcome to a public forum.

EmancipationLover said:

misiu said:

At that time I was a in the mj dangerous hype...

That explains a lot...

What does this explain? Good music is good music! Every MJ record was a hit! But that was, what h wanted it to be!...I dont care for the lyrics that much...

I first heard prince music in 89 and that was because of the Batman hype, i didnt even knew that he existed. As i wrote above, he cought my attention first in 91. Since than i am a huge princefan.

You coughed in 1991?

ernestsewell said:

misiu said:

I dont give a fuck what u say, man! Its my opinion!

You asked, and I answered. Welcome to a public forum.

Hey i didnt say "Fuck"............

anyway, thank u.

misiu said:

ernestsewell said:

You asked, and I answered. Welcome to a public forum.

Hey i didnt say "Fuck"............

anyway, thank u.

Prince Fams, LOL.

Some of the songs on that album do indeed benefit from a "live" sound, for instance I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man and If I Was Your Girlfriend sound much stronger in the SOTT concert movie, or during the New Year´s Eve benefit show at Paisley Park ( IIWYG, not ICNTTPOYM), and the older version of Strange Relationship or the live version played at First Ave. also sound thicker and stronger but it´s good to know and have both versions.

The same goes for the Gold Experience. I was a bit underwhelmed when I listened to the actual album. The concert versions of some songs, especially Now and Days of Wild, or non-TGE stuff like 18 and Over, sounded much better during the concerts he gave in 1995.

Then again, some other songs, like When Doves Cry, sound better on record or CD.

ernestsewell said:

misiu said:

Prince also didn't use much of a band on any album up to that point, sans a few random songs here and there. A lot of his stuff up to that point IS all him, and non-band oriented.

The Linn drum machine is what helped define Prince's sound from 1981 onward. "Kiss" is sparse. So is "Annie Christian", "Sometimes It Snows In April", "When Doves Cry", "Paisley Park" and a ton of others. And with Prince using the Linn on tours, the Linn certainly was an extended member of the band.

You obviously haven't read enough of the history of the songs. Stuff like "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "Forever In My Life" are happy mistakes, as there were major glitches in the recording of both of those songs, yet it's the ony way we know them, and it's how Prince would still perform them live later on.

If you prefer the rehearsals, make your own album from that then.

I read enough about the history. And i know that they made some mistakes. But i still think that a lot of song would benefit from a band. He is often very unimaginativ and very spare. I sometimes think that he dont want to record songs with a full band because then he had to share the credits and pay for their ideas.

I mean, he is recording everyday, like he said it back in the day, but the results are more quantity than quality.

Anyway i love his music!

misiu said:

ernestsewell said:

Prince also didn't use much of a band on any album up to that point, sans a few random songs here and there. A lot of his stuff up to that point IS all him, and non-band oriented.

The Linn drum machine is what helped define Prince's sound from 1981 onward. "Kiss" is sparse. So is "Annie Christian", "Sometimes It Snows In April", "When Doves Cry", "Paisley Park" and a ton of others. And with Prince using the Linn on tours, the Linn certainly was an extended member of the band.

You obviously haven't read enough of the history of the songs. Stuff like "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "Forever In My Life" are happy mistakes, as there were major glitches in the recording of both of those songs, yet it's the ony way we know them, and it's how Prince would still perform them live later on.

If you prefer the rehearsals, make your own album from that then.

I read enough about the history. And i know that they made some mistakes. But i still think that a lot of song would benefit from a band. He is often very unimaginativ and very spare. I sometimes think that he dont want to record songs with a full band because then he had to share the credits and pay for their ideas.

I mean, he is recording everyday, like he said it back in the day, but the results are more quantity than quality.

Anyway i love his music!

Tough to say that. I find that the majority of his outtakes are as good as if not better than his released material. It's generally in a slightly different kilter than the other material of the era (there's something drastically different between "Erotic City" and most of Purple Rain), but it seems a little less restricted.

misiu said:

Hi orgers!

i have a question! Do u think that sign o the times could haven been a better and more succesful record, if prince had played the songs with his band in the studio, not all alone! Most of the songs sounds so dry....so lifeless!

I love sott, it was my first prince record in 1991 after watching sott movie. Before that i didnt really knew prince! He first cought my attention with Diamonds and Pearls and cream. At that time I was a in the mj dangerous hype...

anyway, after listening to the rehearsals for Sott tour with songs like dorothy, strange relationship i realised that sott could be so big, if the songs were recorded with his band! The songs sound so rich, so much better..----------------what do u think?

No I don't think it could have been a more successful record, and like Ernestsewll said, most of the material prior to that are one man band recordings. However, I will say that I prefer most live versions of his material over the album recordings, much more raw and full of life.

misiu said:

Hi orgers!

i have a question! Do u think that sign o the times could haven been a better and more succesful record, if prince had played the songs with his band in the studio, not all alone! Most of the songs sounds so dry....so lifeless!

I love sott, it was my first prince record in 1991 after watching sott movie. Before that i didnt really knew prince! He first cought my attention with Diamonds and Pearls and cream. At that time I was a in the mj dangerous hype...

anyway, after listening to the rehearsals for Sott tour with songs like dorothy, strange relationship i realised that sott could be so big, if the songs were recorded with his band! The songs sound so rich, so much better..----------------what do u think?

This is an interesting question for me only because each is spectacular to me on their own for different reasons.

I love the original version, i love the studio creativity, what you call the dryness and would call your question blasphemous if it was not for the fact that the film version is equally spectacular for totally different reasons. I love both versions equally and have come to accept both of them as the definitive versions for that very fact. That they were recorded so close together they also share the same feel, the same sense of the time and the era.

I cannot say one is better than the other only that I treasure the original for being the original.

[Edited 8/24/10 21:23pm]

Its a very very common opinion that Prince's live arrangements and recordings of songs sound superior to the studio tracks, I've heard pro music guys, fans, and non fans say the same thing.

And yes a major complaint of the SOTT album by many of my friends at the time it came out was that it sounded a bit lifeless and flat in a strange way.

Strangely, an example of this is also in comparing the live version of Beautiful Night to the movie version...

The revolution indeed did sound a bit robotic, but it's written that Prince instructed them to sound that way. On purpose, as compared to the way the band soundd before and then after with the Parade tour or SOTT band.

i couldn't get into sign o the times either honestly, it's one of my least favorites in general, very boring....i'll admit i've dozed off listening to the title song on a few occasions, and i love prince's music. i love graffiti bridge and batman far more.

misiu said:

Most of the songs sounds so dry....so lifeless!

I agree and this is my least favourite Prince record, I tried to play it through the other day but had to stop! Slow Love sounds like death warmed up.

I put on the very much alive funk of Lovesexy instead!

He was in a strange time, with the upcoming Black Album and personality changes, maybe he felt dead inside when making this record?

misiu said:

EmancipationLover said:

That explains a lot...

What does this explain? Good music is good music! Every MJ record was a hit! But that was, what h wanted it to be!...I dont care for the lyrics that much...

I first heard prince music in 89 and that was because of the Batman hype, i didnt even knew that he existed. As i wrote above, he cought my attention first in 91. Since than i am a huge princefan.

I think you go back and listen to his albums that were done, before all of the "hype". Only then, will you be able to make an objective decision. You mentioned, twice that you started listening to MJ and Prince based on the "hype", surrounding their albums. Listening to somebody, because of the hype surrounding them, does not really make one a fan nor an expert on that person's sound. Try listening to their first albums, then see if you still feel the same way.

Did i just read....dry? And lifeless?

shorttrini said:

misiu said:

What does this explain? Good music is good music! Every MJ record was a hit! But that was, what h wanted it to be!...I dont care for the lyrics that much...

I first heard prince music in 89 and that was because of the Batman hype, i didnt even knew that he existed. As i wrote above, he cought my attention first in 91. Since than i am a huge princefan.

I think you go back and listen to his albums that were done, before all of the "hype". Only then, will you be able to make an objective decision. You mentioned, twice that you started listening to MJ and Prince based on the "hype", surrounding their albums. Listening to somebody, because of the hype surrounding them, does not really make one a fan nor an expert on that person's sound. Try listening to their first albums, then see if you still feel the same way.

Yes i started to listen to prince in 91 because i liked D+P and cream! In the following years i became a huge fan, collecting all of his records and read all good books about him( Turn it up, a documentary by per nilsen, prince a poplife..) and analysed his music. I know how his sound is, i am listining to it for about 19 years now, so i exactly know what i am talking about!

I still think that many of his songs would benefit from a full band recording! I mean listen 2 lovesymbol, D+P, purple Rain, lotus flower, That were great band oriented records! Gold experience on the other hand was a little bit over the top...I dont like the final release ( compare the mixing of the beautiful girl single and album edition)....

I love Sott as it is, but after hearing the rehearsals for the tour, it was like the Band took the sott-songs to another level.

it is what it is, i either like it or i dont, i dont recall ever listening to any of prince's work and wondering what it could or should have been, those thoughts never cross my mind.

something about appreciating artistry, the automatic response to accept it and not paste my limited version of style and/or taste over the work of a genius.

more i sit back and fully absorb the scope and proflic nature of prince's work, the more it stuns me when anyone thinks they have better ideas than him, not that i motion to suppress freedom of speech or creative thinking, but as a line of thinking i guess i just dont get it.

sign o the times is a masterpiece unto itself, set in its own era, perfect as is, raw, natural, even pure. i hear a lot of life in every track, a lot of real genuine energy and passion oozing through every machine, maybe thats mainly due to my own perception, and the knowledge that machines are musical too, if you feed em right.

fast forward to 20ten, i can offer a view based on my own tastes and perspective of what i'm hearing, i can say it doesnt sparkle for me, i can say the lyrics dont thrill me, i can say i dont believe him anymore, but it never crosses my mind to consider any alternatives he could have should have used in his approach.

i still respect his work whether i like it or not, or whether i like him or not, i guess part of that respect is accepting my position as a listener, not an after-thought co-producer engaging in the futile act of if's but's and maybe's.

sign o the times is what it is and thats the way it could/should be, imo.

IMHO, with Prince the recorded material is more about the music and the concept. When you get to the live shows it's all about the experience of being there.

By the time the songs on SOTT were played live many of them were a number of years old and Prince the musician had moved on and his sound had changed in that time.

The best approach is to listen to the recorded material and enjoy it. Then you can go to the shows and take in the experience of the sound that is Prince at that time.

PS, I think that dry lifeless robototic repitition was exactly what Prince intended when he remixed or reworked everything for SOTT.

The evolution of Strange Relationship kind of supports this too.

I think he was trying to make a futuristic flavor... and succeeded.

I see where you're going with your "dry and lifeless" comment, I disagree though. The beauty of SOTT is that it's so minimalistic yet good. Prince didn't need a fancy production with a lot of instruments too hide any bad songwriting, because there's nothing bad about it. I know someone that always says that a song is done when nothing else can be removed, and I think SOTT is the perfect example of this. If anything will be removed (and even in some cases, added) the structure would fall. Can you imagine Sign O' The Times, Hot Thing or Housequake with the bombastic production of, for example, Lovesexy? The power is in it's minimalism.

I think of the album as a concept as well, as a starting point for the arranging part. The beauty of this is that he doesn't restrict himself at all. He can add and remove all sorts of instruments without ever disappointing a fan that "missed that trumpet part he always loved". It feels like it wasn't meant as the final product, which makes curious to the live shows.

KoolEaze said:

Some of the songs on that album do indeed benefit from a "live" sound, for instance I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man and If I Was Your Girlfriend sound much stronger in the SOTT concert movie, or during the New Year´s Eve benefit show at Paisley Park ( IIWYG, not ICNTTPOYM), and the older version of Strange Relationship or the live version played at First Ave. also sound thicker and stronger but it´s good to know and have both versions.

The same goes for the Gold Experience. I was a bit underwhelmed when I listened to the actual album. The concert versions of some songs, especially Now and Days of Wild, or non-TGE stuff like 18 and Over, sounded much better during the concerts he gave in 1995.

Then again, some other songs, like When Doves Cry, sound better on record or CD.

Actually in my opinion as much as I love the live rendition of If I Was Your Girlfriend, it sounds a bit more sparse than on the album.

I love all renditions of Strange Relationship, but the studio cut to me still takes the cake

I prefer SOTT live but I think the dark minimal sound of the lp was to help the message of the song, which I'm glad it was released that way

misiu said:

ernestsewell said:

Prince also didn't use much of a band on any album up to that point, sans a few random songs here and there. A lot of his stuff up to that point IS all him, and non-band oriented.

The Linn drum machine is what helped define Prince's sound from 1981 onward. "Kiss" is sparse. So is "Annie Christian", "Sometimes It Snows In April", "When Doves Cry", "Paisley Park" and a ton of others. And with Prince using the Linn on tours, the Linn certainly was an extended member of the band.

You obviously haven't read enough of the history of the songs. Stuff like "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "Forever In My Life" are happy mistakes, as there were major glitches in the recording of both of those songs, yet it's the ony way we know them, and it's how Prince would still perform them live later on.

If you prefer the rehearsals, make your own album from that then.

I read enough about the history. And i know that they made some mistakes. But i still think that a lot of song would benefit from a band. He is often very unimaginativ and very spare. I sometimes think that he dont want to record songs with a full band because then he had to share the credits and pay for their ideas.

I mean, he is recording everyday, like he said it back in the day, but the results are more quantity than quality.

Anyway i love his music!

You're entitled to think that the songs would benefit from a full-band arrangement (I happen to disagree), but everything else you have written there is utter rubbish!