We all know that after the TRC album, Prince supposedly entered a phase of "safe" records, full of just-ok singles, bad album tracks and many embarrassing tracks (the whole TRC era is another story...). Well, that's true, to an extent. None of the singles of the 04-10 are comparable to those of the 80-91 era...

But the era covering from Musicology to 20Ten is full of GREAT album tracks, and only the radical & the jaded would disagree.

I've been listening (again, recently) to many of his "golden" unreleased tracks of his 80s, and HELL, as far as quality go, I just can't see a big difference...

in fact, songs like Vibrator, Wonderful Ass, G-Spot or Possessed are just as good as Lavaux, Love, Sticky Like Glue, What Do U Want Me to Do, or Dance 4 Me to name a few. Hell, if you like Teacher Teacher or Neon Telephone, then you should, at least, tolerate Everybody Loves Me or Hot Summer...

Does this mean that many people here dislike his recent material because is just as good as his unreleased/B-Side material? in other words, disposable material? Is that it?

[Edited 8/3/10 17:49pm]

<--grabs popcorn

I disagree. Here ya go xlr8r

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

exactly

his bad stuff is getting worse .. thats the problem .. way back when u could listen to an outtake like all my dreams .. as poppy and froofy as it was it had enough going on to keep ur interest and it didnt really make u cringe like say mr. goodnite or incense and peppermint or whatever that song is called. sure there was a jughead but the rest of the record had so much pure gold on it ..

the newer songs stale very fast .. there is much less going on likely due to less time spent recording and less imput from other people with actual musical talent .. even when he hits a good tune like say sticky like glue he butchers it with a lame rap .. back then ud get controversial stuff but for whatever reasons it was easy to be attracted to it .. and on repeated listens u would find more and more lil things that were equally as cool

there just is not that sort experience with his newer work .. even a GREAT song like dance for me .. comes off a little flat .. like its just a demo on some stock computer program .. there isnt anything organic or terribly new sounding popping around what is truly a very cool song .. fortunately the song is good enough to pull throu even with mediocre production but many recent songs are simply not that good ... he may have a beautiful melody but he always throws in lyrics that are embarassingly bad .. there is just tons lacking even if the genius spark is still there .. hes just gotten very lazy about really making the song the best it can be ..

as for 20ten .. it sounded great at first .. not even that embarassing but got stale really quick .. nothing all that new to offer there and its just kinda bland .. i dont think id like it any better if it was on some bootleg outtake tape

especially with lyrics like "lets get down to beginning endlessly" like who says that? its just too much concept not enuf poetry ... and sticky like glue doesnt even make sense .. glue isnt sticky .. its stuck .. its only sticky for like a couple of seconds .. not even a whole minute .. and its not even that cool to say or even fun ... now the verses of that song are brilliant ... just kinda drops the ball a lot these days

and its true people DO tolerate the new stuff ... but its only because the old stuff was so good.

i really doubt anyone on the org would fall for prince like the old days if there was no back catalog and all he released was the 20ten record .. people would kinda think it was ok for a little while then would forget about it .. without his back catalog the new music really does not draw interest

JoeTyler said:

We all know that after the TRC album, Prince supposedly entered a phase of "safe" records, full of just-ok singles, bad album tracks and many embarrassing tracks (the whole TRC era is another story...). Well, that's true, to an extent. None of the singles of the 04-10 are comparable to those of the 80-91 era...

But the era covering from Musicology to 20Ten is full of GREAT album tracks, and only the radical & the jaded would disagree.

..So people who disagree with you are either jaded or radical?

The objectivist art oracle has spoken!

It's amazing that all these music magazines/sites/blogs waste their time with conflicting album reviews, when all they really need to do is to ask you for the 'right' answer.

TrevorAyer said:

especially with lyrics like "lets get down to beginning endlessly" like who says that?

who talks about Spooky Electric, or has anguished conversations with God over love and sex to close out an album? that's why it's Prince. He's always operated in some weird purple netherworld and that hasn't changed.

TyphoonTip said:

JoeTyler said:

We all know that after the TRC album, Prince supposedly entered a phase of "safe" records, full of just-ok singles, bad album tracks and many embarrassing tracks (the whole TRC era is another story...). Well, that's true, to an extent. None of the singles of the 04-10 are comparable to those of the 80-91 era...

But the era covering from Musicology to 20Ten is full of GREAT album tracks, and only the radical & the jaded would disagree.

..So people who disagree with you are either jaded or radical?

The objectivist art oracle has spoken!

It's amazing that all these music magazines/sites/blogs waste their time with conflicting album reviews, when all they really need to do is to ask you for the 'right' answer.

a) "So people who disagree with you are either jaded or radical?"

C'mon, don't turn this into a personal attack ; we all know (even you) that these forums are FULL of "fans" that just give it up after TGE, or after TRC/ONA. I'm talking about people who PROUDLY say that Prince has released only SHIT during the 04-10 years

I'm against that kind of "fans" (you know who you are)

b)"It's amazing that all these music magazines/sites/blogs waste their time with conflicting album reviews, when all they really need to do is to ask you for the 'right' answer".

that's silly, and irrelevant to the topic at hand, really; do you realize that any music journalist could be considered another "irritating objectivist art oracle" ??. You're just a big paradox, my friend...

btw

Back on topic, please

[Edited 8/3/10 18:57pm]

yeah but see .. spooky electric sounds cool ... i like it .. it may be odd but it makes sense in a way ... i just cant connect with a lot of his lyrics lately .. they are too contrived .. lacking primal relevance .. like DANCE 4 ME .. sounds like there was a FEELING behind it .. something he liked .. some girl turned him on .. whatever .. BEGINNING ENDLESSLY sounds like he thought it would be cool to write a song called BEGINNING ENDLESSLY and then he wrote a song .. no feeling no emotion no truth .. just im gonna write a song cuz i think putting those 3 words together sounds cool.

spooky electric again .. it may sound corny but he had a feeling he was trying to express .. almost didnt matter what he said .. the feeling emotional shift turmoil awakening .. all that came thru

theres nothing really driving him to write a lot of these songs .. they lack and emotional substance and seem very ego based ... i'd much rather hear him just sing IM LONELY but hes not being honest enuf to come up with that so its all intellectually based.

thats why the new stuff does not hold incense or candles to his older music. he was possessed and the music was coming thru him .. now he is trying to create music but rarely taps the source anymore

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

I don't think there is any question about this. I've thought about this many times. I had heard about his unreleased music from the '80's a long time before I heard the actual songs. The heaps of praise given to certain songs (Moonbeam Levels, The Grand Progression etc), and when I heard the songs I thought; "this is it?" They didn't quite live up to the mystique that had filled my head. I mean, the songs were good, some great, but rarely did they live up to my lofty expectations.

I think age is the main factor in the way we view art. Music in particular. If I had heard these unreleased songs while in my youth, when music was a much more influential, powerful force in my life, I may feel different about them. No music nowadays (not just Prince) moves me the way it did when I was in my teens, and early twenties. I just chalk it up to getting old, and having more important things to do.

With that being said, I don't think that it would hurt if Prince worked a little on his lyrics. They do seem rushed, and sometimes come off as corny and contrived.

[Edited 8/3/10 19:28pm]

jockeyb4u said:

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

I don't think there is any question about this. I've thought about this many times. I had heard about his unreleased music from the '80's a long time before I heard the actual songs. The heaps of praise given to certain songs (Moonbeam Levels, The Grand Progression etc), and when I heard the songs I thought; "this is it?" They didn't quite live up to the mystique that had filled my head. I mean, the songs were good, some great, but rarely did they live up to my lofty expectations.

I think age is the main factor in the way we view art. Music in particular. If I had heard these unreleased songs while in my youth, when music was a much more influential, powerful force in my life, I may feel different about them. No music nowadays (not just Prince) moves me the way it did when I was in my teens, and early twenties. I just chalk it up to getting old, and having more important things to do.

With that being said, I don't think that it would hurt if Prince worked a little on his lyrics. They do seem rushed, and sometimes come off as corny and contrived.

[Edited 8/3/10 19:28pm]

totally agree

For me a big difference is the lyrics. I think musicialy he's just as strong if not stronger. He has his sounds lately that he likes to go to. and there good. I like it. But the biggest problem for me. Since the 80's has been the lyrics. Songs like 3121 and Guitar although both GREAT song imo but both had AWFUL lyrics. They just sound for the lack of a better word "Stupid". They sound like a 50 year old man trying to sound like a 21 year old man. The odd thing about it is when he was in his 20's I felt like his lyrics where more cleaver, more witty. Maybe this is just Prince being human. After all he's a world famous pop star. With millions of fans around the world, and it's only natural for him to feel like he needs to cater to the younger audience. I don't really blame him for that. He's just human. I think what he might not realizes is that the younger audience that gets into his music, likes Prince becasue Prince doesn't sound like whats out there today. He's not Usher or Trey Songz. and i think that's why those in the younger generations which at 26, I suppose you can could include myself in. Get's into Prince.

Another reason and i think this might be the biggest reason why fans "hate on the new stuff" Is that the style music Prince is feeling right now, is not the style the core of his fanbase feels. Prince core fan base is Soul/R&B/Funk as well Alternitve Rock and Electironica fans. The sound Prince has been seeming to go into often since Planet Earth and parts of Lotus Flow3r and 20Ten is a Lite Upbeat soft rock sound. Almost rooted in country music... A sound that is probally the most anit-sound there is too what the Prince fanbase is... Most Prince fans are fans of artists like George Clinton's projects, James Brown, Michael Jackson, Curtis Mayfield, and Sly Stone. As well as newer artists like D'angelo, Erykah Badu, Van Hunt, and Janelle Monae. The Prince sound i speaking of sounds something more like Tyler Swift then anything else. (and she's talented... don't think she isn't) But like most Prince fans. That's not the style of music I dig. So like that rest of Prince fans. I don't really care for some of the new stuff he's doing. It's not to say it's bad, casue it isn'. Musically it's tight. But it's just not my style of music!

the biggest difference is the sound. he was so raw before. 1999 sounds like its alive with energy. dirty mind is bare-bones raw. purple rain is mostly a live album and it sound like it. incredible passion. sott was any experiment, any feeling, any vibe that worked. now things sound so perfect, and sometimes sterile and overly slick. this has been a problem since the 90s, as the technology he used improved.

NoVideo said:

the biggest difference is the sound. he was so raw before. 1999 sounds like its alive with energy. dirty mind is bare-bones raw. purple rain is mostly a live album and it sound like it. incredible passion. sott was any experiment, any feeling, any vibe that worked. now things sound so perfect, and sometimes sterile and overly slick. this has been a problem since the 90s, as the technology he used improved.

THIS. And the fact that the hunger just isn't there anymore. That dude ain't hungry no more. I was just listening to Something In The Water and was like OMG this ish is like reDONKulous. You could FEEL those screams you know? Like there was something he wanted to say, something he wanted to let OUT. I don't feel that way about 20Ten. There's no PASSION. It's kinda sad.

this question is irrelevent.....don't believe his "new" songs are really that "new"...could be "vault" stuff from 20 to 10 to 5 years ago

I think what's happened with Prince is what, I hate to say this, happens to many artists who get to a certain level of success. Back in the late '70s through maybe the late '80s, Prince had a lot of drive and determination to set himself out there and put 110% into whatever he was doing. After the mid-'90s, he was more commonplace and his sound was more settled. You can see that as he grows older. 20Ten just sounds unfinished and complacent like he had ideas but he figured he didn't need to work on it so he puts it on the record and then gives it away. I also think the industry, its politics, and his problems with the internet have also aged the man. It doesn't shock me that he's where he's at right now where the current material sounds like demos.

Although I will not agree with the poster here, I understand and want to agree with some of it. I think Prince's post Batman output is pretty damb good. I also have said in another thread that if you compare him with other over 50 artists, it isn't even close....let's have a looksie at some older artists loved as much or more than our Purple Guy:

Paul McCartney? Please. Sting? Since he turned 50, just one album of new original material, the rest just remakes and reworked songs from the Ming Dynasty played on the Lute and the Pan Flute(Whoa there...sarcasm). Billy Joel? One track of original material since 1993. Stevie Wonder? Well, not much, but I love Stevie so much, I'll give him a pass here. Don Henley/Eagles? Well, 2 albums of Original Material since 1990 means less than ONE SONG A YEAR since "Innocence" came out in 1989.

Where I don't agree with the poster, is that the old outtakes were full of legendary songs like "Witness 4 The Prosecution" the Original "Old Friends 4 Sale" the original "In A Large Room with No Light," hell...those 3 songs alone can whip up on ANYBODY'S songs released or unreleased in my opinion. I am with the poster on highlighting album tracks, as Prince's single choices used to be poor, now they are downright awful. Musicology was not even in my top 8 on that album, but he played it to death on the tour. But this is stuff I have written about on many threads, so will end it with the brief summary: I like every era of Prince, and think those that are no longer on the Purple Boat, should just sail away, and be happy waiting for the next Billy Joel album. Don't worry, it will be here soon... unless a house gets posessed, and shows up on the highway, and Joel crashes into it. Damb those houses on the highway!!

P.S. : I did not include U2, as they have not released anything since any in the band hit age 50.

I will hold many of Prince's 2000's albums up to U2's output of 3 albums last decade. If Prince had a little better idea of what songs were good/great/not so great, and he only had 3 albums in the decade, his 35 best songs of the last 10 years blow away U2's in my opinion. The only problem, is you have to get through over 150 Prince songs to edit it down.

P2daP said:

For me a big difference is the lyrics. I think musicialy he's just as strong if not stronger. He has his sounds lately that he likes to go to. and there good. I like it. But the biggest problem for me. Since the 80's has been the lyrics. Songs like 3121 and Guitar although both GREAT song imo but both had AWFUL lyrics. They just sound for the lack of a better word "Stupid". They sound like a 50 year old man trying to sound like a 21 year old man. The odd thing about it is when he was in his 20's I felt like his lyrics where more cleaver, more witty. Maybe this is just Prince being human. After all he's a world famous pop star. With millions of fans around the world, and it's only natural for him to feel like he needs to cater to the younger audience. I don't really blame him for that. He's just human. I think what he might not realizes is that the younger audience that gets into his music, likes Prince becasue Prince doesn't sound like whats out there today. He's not Usher or Trey Songz. and i think that's why those in the younger generations which at 26, I suppose you can could include myself in. Get's into Prince.

Another reason and i think this might be the biggest reason why fans "hate on the new stuff" Is that the style music Prince is feeling right now, is not the style the core of his fanbase feels. Prince core fan base is Soul/R&B/Funk as well Alternitve Rock and Electironica fans. The sound Prince has been seeming to go into often since Planet Earth and parts of Lotus Flow3r and 20Ten is a Lite Upbeat soft rock sound. Almost rooted in country music... A sound that is probally the most anit-sound there is too what the Prince fanbase is... Most Prince fans are fans of artists like George Clinton's projects, James Brown, Michael Jackson, Curtis Mayfield, and Sly Stone. As well as newer artists like D'angelo, Erykah Badu, Van Hunt, and Janelle Monae. The Prince sound i speaking of sounds something more like Tyler Swift then anything else. (and she's talented... don't think she isn't) But like most Prince fans. That's not the style of music I dig. So like that rest of Prince fans. I don't really care for some of the new stuff he's doing. It's not to say it's bad, casue it isn'. Musically it's tight. But it's just not my style of music!

Interesting.

Thanx for sharing.

The style comments were interesting. Prince, in my experience since 1979, Prince has never been about any style. I don't have any expectations. I just want to hear what he does. 20Ten is his best since 3121. It's his most commercial work since Musicology.

Prince still sounds like Prince to me.

P2daP said:

For me a big difference is the lyrics. I think musicialy he's just as strong if not stronger. He has his sounds lately that he likes to go to. and there good. I like it. But the biggest problem for me. Since the 80's has been the lyrics. Songs like 3121 and Guitar although both GREAT song imo but both had AWFUL lyrics. They just sound for the lack of a better word "Stupid". They sound like a 50 year old man trying to sound like a 21 year old man. The odd thing about it is when he was in his 20's I felt like his lyrics where more cleaver, more witty. Maybe this is just Prince being human. After all he's a world famous pop star. With millions of fans around the world, and it's only natural for him to feel like he needs to cater to the younger audience. I don't really blame him for that. He's just human. I think what he might not realizes is that the younger audience that gets into his music, likes Prince becasue Prince doesn't sound like whats out there today. He's not Usher or Trey Songz. and i think that's why those in the younger generations which at 26, I suppose you can could include myself in. Get's into Prince.

Another reason and i think this might be the biggest reason why fans "hate on the new stuff" Is that the style music Prince is feeling right now, is not the style the core of his fanbase feels. Prince core fan base is Soul/R&B/Funk as well Alternitve Rock and Electironica fans. The sound Prince has been seeming to go into often since Planet Earth and parts of Lotus Flow3r and 20Ten is a Lite Upbeat soft rock sound. Almost rooted in country music... A sound that is probally the most anit-sound there is too what the Prince fanbase is... Most Prince fans are fans of artists like George Clinton's projects, James Brown, Michael Jackson, Curtis Mayfield, and Sly Stone. As well as newer artists like D'angelo, Erykah Badu, Van Hunt, and Janelle Monae. The Prince sound i speaking of sounds something more like Tyler Swift then anything else. (and she's talented... don't think she isn't) But like most Prince fans. That's not the style of music I dig. So like that rest of Prince fans. I don't really care for some of the new stuff he's doing. It's not to say it's bad, casue it isn'. Musically it's tight. But it's just not my style of music!

Right on. Perfect post.

To me, this is why 20Ten is so good...it's Prince!

Yeah he's doing his old thing, yeah he probably recorded it in 3 days, throwaway stuff...but it's the first PRINCE album in ages! Back to doing his thing!

He still needs help with them lyrics though!

As for his new albums of the past few years being better than his old unreleased stuff, it depends. I think if we had clear, perfect releases of all that stuff it would still be better than the majority of what has come out over the last, oh 20 years.

[Edited 8/3/10 23:38pm]

JoeTyler said:

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

exactly

100% true

its funny because in many ways Prince still sounds the same as he did in

1979 or before.

he is who he is, and his voice has barely changed. people

who have gripes about his current sound would probably not like a tune

like "leaving for new york" if it were released/originated this year

sometimes its just a matter of listening to what he has to say, instead of

wishing he says what "we" want him to.

pax.

[Edited 8/4/10 0:45am]

I can see how being jaded could be considered an insult, but how is being radical a bad thing?

NelsonR said:

its funny because in many ways Prince still sounds the same as he did in

1979 or before.

he is who he is, and his voice has barely changed. people

who have gripes about his current sound would probably not like a tune

like "leaving for new york" if it were released/originated this year

agreed!! I never really cared too much for MOST of the unreleased stuff. The better songs definately made the albums. The ones I usually like are like the ext Computer blue, etc. Most of his unreleased songs to me are aweful. I enjoy hearing them just to see if its anything worthwhile but I struggled to make 1 cd that I thought was releasaeble. Then again I dont like half of the stuff he releases so I am probally not a diehard fan enough. I liked about 50 percent of the 70s. 70 percent of the 80s. 80 percent of the 90s and 10 percent of the 2000s released stuff.

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

they would.

Neon Telephone would be called a throwaway by todays standards...just like they did to "The Morning After".

NoVideo said:

TrevorAyer said:

especially with lyrics like "lets get down to beginning endlessly" like who says that?

who talks about Spooky Electric, or has anguished conversations with God over love and sex to close out an album? that's why it's Prince. He's always operated in some weird purple netherworld and that hasn't changed.

Or raving to the Joy Fantastic...or the Everlasting Now...or playing with the Rainbow Children..what's so different?

TrevorAyer said:

hes just gotten very lazy about really making the song the best it can be ..

Who decides what's best for a song?

jockeyb4u said:

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

I don't think there is any question about this. I've thought about this many times. I had heard about his unreleased music from the '80's a long time before I heard the actual songs. The heaps of praise given to certain songs (Moonbeam Levels, The Grand Progression etc), and when I heard the songs I thought; "this is it?" They didn't quite live up to the mystique that had filled my head. I mean, the songs were good, some great, but rarely did they live up to my lofty expectations.

I think age is the main factor in the way we view art. Music in particular. If I had heard these unreleased songs while in my youth, when music was a much more influential, powerful force in my life, I may feel different about them. No music nowadays (not just Prince) moves me the way it did when I was in my teens, and early twenties. I just chalk it up to getting old, and having more important things to do.

With that being said, I don't think that it would hurt if Prince worked a little on his lyrics. They do seem rushed, and sometimes come off as corny and contrived.

[Edited 8/3/10 19:28pm]

Right! It's been said be4; it's not only Prince who gets older, WE are also older and listen

2 music on a different way now than 20 years ago in our room.

And I remember when I first bought ATWIAD or Parade, it also wasn't that easy 2 get in2 the whole album...at first!