what different is that his old outtakes no matter how mediocre .. grow on you in a big way

his new work now matter how close to past glory .. get worse and worse on repeated listen

just because ur stuck in the middle in your listening time does not make the new work JUST AS GOOD .. its not its just not .. given one more year of regular listening by this poster i can guarantee he/she will agree one hundred percent .. and sure some of his past out takes were not great ... but should we really be comparing the best of his recent work to the worst of his past work .. prince can do much better ... and the only reason his new work is ANY good is because there are a couple good ideas in a song ... we dont even get a whole good song .. just a song with a good idea in it .. that is not the case at all with his past work which was wholly good .. and there are 3 or 4 full records of out takes that still are way better than anything post wb or even symbol record

i really do believe prince has lost his passion for music and is simply creating records at this point to keep the cash flow coming ... its really not just as good at all ... u will see that eventually

TrevorAyer said:

prince can do much better ...

Define "better"!

TrevorAyer said:

what different is that his old outtakes no matter how mediocre .. grow on you in a big way

his new work now matter how close to past glory .. get worse and worse on repeated listen

just because ur stuck in the middle in your listening time does not make the new work JUST AS GOOD .. its not its just not .. given one more year of regular listening by this poster i can guarantee he/she will agree one hundred percent .. and sure some of his past out takes were not great ... but should we really be comparing the best of his recent work to the worst of his past work .. prince can do much better ... and the only reason his new work is ANY good is because there are a couple good ideas in a song ... we dont even get a whole good song .. just a song with a good idea in it .. that is not the case at all with his past work which was wholly good .. and there are 3 or 4 full records of out takes that still are way better than anything post wb or even symbol record

i really do believe prince has lost his passion for music and is simply creating records at this point to keep the cash flow coming ... its really not just as good at all ... u will see that eventually

I dunno, some of his past songs unreleased or on albums sounded a bit bare on the development and lyrics and ideas.

To me Prince has always been consistent with changing his sound to sound different in tone (going even more dry and simple in some cases) from other music around him. He has always had a mixed bag of irritating songs that grow on me mixed with two to three instant gems per album.

I wouldn't say "Witness for the Prosecution" is any more rewarding to me than a recent tune. It's kind of a dead idea... not to interesting, even in all it's versions.

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

Bullcrap. 1) He wouldn't have written that crap back then. 2) There are plenty of bad outtakes, and I don't care about them. His output of the past 15 years is simply rubbish. I recently came accross Emancipation and even if you put a gun to my head, at least 80% of the songs on that record I can't recall. They're that bad.

As alwasy it's really about perspective and personal taste.

What's funny is I listened to New Power Soul over the weekend and I really enjoyed it! Maybe the first time I enjoyed this much. Not sure why. Maybe I've haven't listened to it in a very long time and it just seemd to sit well with me. Point is, never really cared for this album since it's release and now I like it. Point is sometimes many years later albums will click with me when at the time of release they don't for whatever reason. Sometimes I think my expectations may be too high. I dunno. I found when I try not to overanylyze P's music and take it for what it is, I enjoy things more. Like I said it's about perspective and personal taste.

I'll go one further: His recent albums are JUST AS GOOD as many of his past albums.

However, this website (like the rest of the internet) has it's fair share of posers who love to claim otherwise.

These are folks who can spend all day hating on Prince's most recent album and explain how it's not as good as, say, Around the World in a Day, when they know damn well that in 1985 they still were wanting "Purple Rain part 2".

The fact of the matter is that, since at least 1985, it has been cynically cool to dis "new Prince" and yearn for "old Prince".

Funny enough , as time goes by, many of the people who trash Prince's then new material seem to retroactivley fall in love with/forget that they disliked it in the first place. It happened with Lovesexy, it happened with Come, it happened with Chaos and Disorder and many others. People forget, a good chunk of Prince fans maligned these albums, only call them "classics" years later.

Bottom line: We (the listeners) have changed more than the quality of Prince's music. Nope, "Lavaux" isn't going to hit you at age 40 like "17 days" did when you were 14. That's life.

[Edited 8/4/10 9:32am]

BartVanHemelen said:

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

Bullcrap. 1) He wouldn't have written that crap back then. 2) There are plenty of bad outtakes, and I don't care about them. His output of the past 15 years is simply rubbish. I recently came accross Emancipation and even if you put a gun to my head, at least 80% of the songs on that record I can't recall. They're that bad.

1) Riiiiight... He wouldn't have written songs like "Dance 4 Me" or "Guitar" but he had no problem putting piffle like "Jack U Off" or MOR pop songs like "Take Me With U" and "U Got the Look" on his records?

2) Indeed, there are plenty of bad outtakes. But there are plenty of great ones, as well - and most of his recent work compares favorable with his widely circulating collection of outtakes.

3) I'm not a huge fan of the uber-slick production of Emancipation, and there is alot of throwaway material, but there are some quality tracks as well. Perhaps the issue with your faulty memory is with you, and not the material.

4) I question why someone hangs around a forum and bothers to post at all when your sole purpose seems to be to repeatly bash and denigrate anything Prince has done in the last 15 years, as if somebody possibly might have missed it. Here's a clue: we are all well aware. You don't like his recent work. I'll issue a press release immediately.

NoVideo said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Bullcrap. 1) He wouldn't have written that crap back then. 2) There are plenty of bad outtakes, and I don't care about them. His output of the past 15 years is simply rubbish. I recently came accross Emancipation and even if you put a gun to my head, at least 80% of the songs on that record I can't recall. They're that bad.

1) Riiiiight... He wouldn't have written songs like "Dance 4 Me" or "Guitar" but he had no problem putting piffle like "Jack U Off" or MOR pop songs like "Take Me With U" and "U Got the Look" on his records?

2) Indeed, there are plenty of bad outtakes. But there are plenty of great ones, as well - and most of his recent work compares favorable with his widely circulating collection of outtakes.

3) I'm not a huge fan of the uber-slick production of Emancipation, and there is alot of throwaway material, but there are some quality tracks as well. Perhaps the issue with your faulty memory is with you, and not the material.

4) I question why someone hangs around a forum and bothers to post at all when your sole purpose seems to be to repeatly bash and denigrate anything Prince has done in the last 15 years, as if somebody possibly might have missed it. Here's a clue: we are all well aware. You don't like his recent work. I'll issue a press release immediately.

Well said.

skywalker said:

Bottom line: We (the listeners) have changed more than the quality of Prince's music. Nope, "Lavaux" isn't going to hit you at age 40 like "17 days" did when you were 14. That's life.

This is a very important point. How we relate to music changes as we get older. Also, the sheer volume of music available now compared to the early 80s is staggering. At least for me, when i was a kid, i would spin my favorite albums and singles over and over and over and over again. These days, I get so much music that it sometimes seems like i'm moving on to something else before giving anything enough time to sink in. I also think its harder to fall in love with something you download for free off the internet and can listen to anytime and skip around at your leisure compared with an album that you're waiting for eagerly, go to the store, unwrap, put on the turntable, and sit and listen all the way through.

That said, I don't think his recent work has the same potency as his best work of the 80s, but who knows... it's hard to say what the reaction would have been had 20ten been titled 1985 instead. I suspect we all would have gone ape-shit over it. (or, at least, most of us).

skywalker said:

I'll go one further: His recent albums are JUST AS GOOD as many of his past albums.

However, this website (like the rest of the internet) has it's fair share of posers who love to claim otherwise.

These are folks who can spend all day hating on Prince's most recent album and explain how it's not as good as, say, Around the World in a Day, when they know damn well that in 1985 they still were wanting "Purple Rain part 2".

The fact of the matter is that, since at least 1985, it has been cynically cool to dis "new Prince" and yearn for "old Prince".

Funny enough , as time goes by, many of the people who trash Prince's then new material seem to retroactivley fall in love with/forget that they disliked it in the first place. It happened with Lovesexy, it happened with Come, it happened with Chaos and Disorder and many others. People forget, a good chunk of Prince fans maligned these albums, only call them "classics" years later.

Bottom line: We (the listeners) have changed more than the quality of Prince's music. Nope, "Lavaux" isn't going to hit you at age 40 like "17 days" did when you were 14. That's life.

[Edited 8/4/10 9:32am]

So true!

From pure craftsman point of view to songwriting, I would say Prince has really improved his craft. I do think he could benefit from another strong cohesive conceptual vision that shapes everything on an album from the mix to the art to the lyrics. I think if he had gathered all the 60's and 70's retro vibe stuff he's recently been doing into one package, it would have been cool.

Examples of songs that fit this mold (in different ways) are: Compassion, Planet Earth, Boom, Colonized Mind, The Word, Dreamer, Here, Somewhere Here on Earth, Everybody Loves Me, Sticky Like Glue, Lolita, Beginning Endlessly, Get On the Boat, Elixer

ufoclub said:

From pure craftsman point of view to songwriting, I would say Prince has really improved his craft. I do think he could benefit from another strong cohesive conceptual vision that shapes everything on an album from the mix to the art to the lyrics. I think if he had gathered all the 60's and 70's retro vibe stuff he's recently been doing into one package, it would have been cool.

Examples of songs that fit this mold (in different ways) are: Compassion, Planet Earth, Boom, Colonized Mind, The Word, Dreamer, Here, Somewhere Here on Earth, Everybody Loves Me, Sticky Like Glue, Lolita, Beginning Endlessly, Get On the Boat, Elixer

I agree with this completely. Also, I'd like to see Prince play these themes out in the promotion of his albums/videos/etc. I hesitate to call them gimmicks, but I like when he ties everything together. It goes even further to make each album/era different from the previous.

skywalker said:

I'll go one further: His recent albums are JUST AS GOOD as many of his past albums.

However, this website (like the rest of the internet) has it's fair share of posers who love to claim otherwise.

These are folks who can spend all day hating on Prince's most recent album and explain how it's not as good as, say, Around the World in a Day, when they know damn well that in 1985 they still were wanting "Purple Rain part 2".

The fact of the matter is that, since at least 1985, it has been cynically cool to dis "new Prince" and yearn for "old Prince".

Funny enough , as time goes by, many of the people who trash Prince's then new material seem to retroactivley fall in love with/forget that they disliked it in the first place. It happened with Lovesexy, it happened with Come, it happened with Chaos and Disorder and many others. People forget, a good chunk of Prince fans maligned these albums, only call them "classics" years later.

Bottom line: We (the listeners) have changed more than the quality of Prince's music. Nope, "Lavaux" isn't going to hit you at age 40 like "17 days" did when you were 14. That's life.

[Edited 8/4/10 9:32am]

I strongly believe that SOTT has been the only Prince album (after PP) to receive positive/raving reviews from ALL his "fans" ...

I think it is as good as most of the unreleased material, but he did not relase that material!!!

I think the new stuff is okay, but a lot of it could have been decent b-sides or unreleased rather than take precious album space.

Comparing his new stuff to unreleased material as a way to praise it makes no sense to me.

stillwaiting said:

Although I will not agree with the poster here, I understand and want to agree with some of it. I think Prince's post Batman output is pretty damb good. I also have said in another thread that if you compare him with other over 50 artists, it isn't even close....let's have a looksie at some older artists loved as much or more than our Purple Guy:

Paul McCartney? Please. Sting? Since he turned 50, just one album of new original material, the rest just remakes and reworked songs from the Ming Dynasty played on the Lute and the Pan Flute(Whoa there...sarcasm). Billy Joel? One track of original material since 1993. Stevie Wonder? Well, not much, but I love Stevie so much, I'll give him a pass here. Don Henley/Eagles? Well, 2 albums of Original Material since 1990 means less than ONE SONG A YEAR since "Innocence" came out in 1989.

Where I don't agree with the poster, is that the old outtakes were full of legendary songs like "Witness 4 The Prosecution" the Original "Old Friends 4 Sale" the original "In A Large Room with No Light," hell...those 3 songs alone can whip up on ANYBODY'S songs released or unreleased in my opinion. I am with the poster on highlighting album tracks, as Prince's single choices used to be poor, now they are downright awful. Musicology was not even in my top 8 on that album, but he played it to death on the tour. But this is stuff I have written about on many threads, so will end it with the brief summary: I like every era of Prince, and think those that are no longer on the Purple Boat, should just sail away, and be happy waiting for the next Billy Joel album. Don't worry, it will be here soon... unless a house gets posessed, and shows up on the highway, and Joel crashes into it. Damb those houses on the highway!!

P.S. : I did not include U2, as they have not released anything since any in the band hit age 50.

I will hold many of Prince's 2000's albums up to U2's output of 3 albums last decade. If Prince had a little better idea of what songs were good/great/not so great, and he only had 3 albums in the decade, his 35 best songs of the last 10 years blow away U2's in my opinion. The only problem, is you have to get through over 150 Prince songs to edit it down.

Interesting...Miles Davis when he was 50 was actually still innovating.when the one nite alone era started i thought Prince would go the Miles Davis route and be musically interesting continuesly.nowadayz.i find that Prince is not stretching himself enough musically...he should feel more competition...some stuff is so lazy done...but then again...he only just released a gem like Lotusflow3r..so yeah...can't complain too much...

To select the best 35 songs though would be hard for Prince to do...since it comes a lot down to taste..i hate Planet Earth or similar stuff like 20ten...but totally am into Lotusflow3r and One Nite Alone era, which i consider his best after the lovesexy era...i hear people here with the total opposite taste. So actually i am happy that Prince releases as much as he does and does not edit himself too much..although it confuses the general audience....and even me...

FUNNY ENUF .. 17 days hit me when i was about 35 .. before that i was still absorbing so much of his other music i didnt notice it ... but the new stuff just doesnt hit me at all ever ... even if i put on something even 10 years old and give it another chance it still upsets me its so bad ... BELIEVE ME I AM TRYING HERE .. its not like i dont wanna love the songs its just not happenin ..

on the other hand in school i once traded chairs .. just to be near u ... CLASSIC just mentioning that outtake gets me excited to hear it again .. but everybody loves me not only is annoying but i cant get it out of my head in a bad way like some comercial for a cleaning product or something .. i am actually upset i EVER heard it because it is sooo foul ... like i said he has his moments but they are in a song filled with bad moments .. he doesnt have good whole songs anymore

better defined : poetry not bragging

singing not rapping or whatever he calls it

melody like in "love" but without all the stupid space jeep sounds ruining the rest of the song

well worn songs ... u know play them out edit them have other musicians contribute ... let them evolve and definately fine tune the lyrics .. make them about something people can feel .. they dont need to make sense or sound like a term paper on spirituality but they need to strike the chord of universal truth, which conceptually in songs like "compassion" they do but poetically its all so cluttered.

take guitar and that "like a (something) around your waste" line he crams in .. and that was the lead single on the fuckin verizon comercial everywhere and its just horrible ... REWRITE IT MAKE IT BETTER

<---refills popcorn

101 said:

(removed my own post...already know what I typed)

Interesting...Miles Davis when he was 50 was actually still innovating.when the one nite alone era started i thought Prince would go the Miles Davis route and be musically interesting continuesly.nowadayz.i find that Prince is not stretching himself enough musically...he should feel more competition...some stuff is so lazy done...but then again...he only just released a gem like Lotusflow3r..so yeah...can't complain too much...

To select the best 35 songs though would be hard for Prince to do...since it comes a lot down to taste..i hate Planet Earth or similar stuff like 20ten...but totally am into Lotusflow3r and One Nite Alone era, which i consider his best after the lovesexy era...i hear people here with the total opposite taste. So actually i am happy that Prince releases as much as he does and does not edit himself too much..although it confuses the general audience....and even me...

Great point. In a very similar post, I mentioned that this "Old Man Creativity Disease" tends to spare jazz performers. I forgot to include it in my post here, thanks for bringing it up.

BartVanHemelen said:

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

Bullcrap. 1) He wouldn't have written that crap back then. 2) There are plenty of bad outtakes, and I don't care about them. His output of the past 15 years is simply rubbish. I recently came accross Emancipation and even if you put a gun to my head, at least 80% of the songs on that record I can't recall. They're that bad.

Bart Van Halen accuses me of saying "Prince lost it," which I don't remember ever posting, and then calls me the "real hater." I have defended Prince's output for ages and ages. I have admitted that Prince's legendary live shows are not once they once were, and have laughed at Prince cheating us out of $77 for piss poor websites. Other musicians and songwriters like myself seem to think that Prince still has it in the studio. How anyone who HATES PRINCE SO MUCH for the last 15 years can even stand to be on this site, I will never know. If somebody screws up and says "Anna Stasia" is a great song by Prince Roger Nelson.... Mr Van Halen will post a copy of the birth certificate to show the name was wrong, and then go into a lenghty fillabuster about how "Anna Stasia" is a Disney Movie...and "Anna Stesia" is a Prince song.

P.S. I once heard Prince refer to "Anna Stesia" as "Anna Stasia." I laughed my ass off, and was looking over my shoulder to see if Mr Van Halen was there to prove "Mr Nelsons" wrong.

Also, I can admit I am a former Bruce Springsteen fan. I may like a track here and there. I don't spend 10 hours a day attacking his latest albums on his fan forums. I don't even enjoy his old stuff that much anymore. I am one of those losers who thinks John Mellencamp actually perfected that genre. I stay away from the Bruce fan sites, because I just don't CARE

Please note: As a former Jouranlism major, please take this post as-is, all mistakes inlcuded. There is no truth to the rumor I have secretly missspelled words in my posts on purpose, and planted mistakes in my posts to see who might correct them.

Sadly, who is more of a loser? The loser, or the loser who responds to a post about a loser? Damb!!!! Now I am insecure enough to wonder if I am the loser, the poster about the loser, or none of the above???

genre. I stay away from the Bruce fan sites, because I just don't CARE

Please note: As a former Jouranlism major, please take this post as-is, all mistakes inlcuded. There is no truth to the rumor I have secretly missspelled words in my posts on purpose, and planted mistakes in my posts to see who might correct them.

Sadly, who is more of a loser? The loser, or the loser who responds to a post about a loser? Damb!!!! Now I am insecure enough to wonder if I am the loser, the poster about the loser, or none of the above???

I am replying to my own post. Damb. 4got what I was going to correct myself on.

PLEASE NOTE: This post is presented to you ASS-IS, all mistakes included, some intentional, some by mistake. Spelling optional. SOmetimes I spell words right, sometimes wrong.

TrevorAyer said:

what different is that his old outtakes no matter how mediocre .. grow on you in a big way

his new work now matter how close to past glory .. get worse and worse on repeated listen

just because ur stuck in the middle in your listening time does not make the new work JUST AS GOOD .. its not its just not .. given one more year of regular listening by this poster i can guarantee he/she will agree one hundred percent ..

Your opinion. I don't change my music opinions that often. The only album I have loved at first, and then soured on was New Power Soul. Take out Push It Up, and take Doug E Fresh off of Funky Music, put Wasted Kisses away from the already dated by 1998 boring "Hidden Track" "idea", and just put the song title on the album sleeve, and you've got a much better album. I love every Prince album, but will admit some of MPLS Sound, and New Power Soul sound kinda weak to me. Also, any track with Tony M for Manure loses some of it's appeal. Is Tony M the only Rapper ever to rap the word "Manure" in a rap??? This was so lame.

Please note: This Post is presented to you ASS-IS, with mistakes included intentionally, and sometimes by carelessnessness, Sarcasm also included for a small $77 processing fee. I am so intelligent that I am probably stupid, so sue me.

[Edited 8/4/10 20:59pm]

Some people are programmed by society....not to like new material by older artists. Let's face it. In 1984, Paul McCartney was getting major airplay at 42 years of age. Many artists in their late 30's or 40's were all over the airwaves if they had a hit. If you want to hear a new song by an old artist since about 1995, the oldies station might play the new single a few spins, or maybe a few weeks if it is any good. You will never hear a song by Prince on Pop Radio again.

This type of social programming has almost conditioned us to only like a few select songs by a few select artists. If you listen to the radio and hear Prince...it is a few songs:

The "Oldies White Boy Stations"

Let's Go Crazy

When Doves Cry

Raspberry Beret

1999

Kiss

The "Grown Folks R&B Stations"

Adore

Do Me, Baby

Kiss

New Single if it is a slow jam for a few weeks, then retire it, never to be played again...see "Call My Name," "Future Baby Mama," "Better with Time."

I will never let society program me. If I like it, I will listen. If I do not, will not.

This post is presented to you ASS-IS, with mistakes, tears, honesty, lies, poor spelling, nonsense, intelligence, and sarcasm. Figure it out!

[Edited 8/4/10 21:06pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

NoVideo said:

I agree generally.

If somebody had leaked a bad quality audio cassette containing songs like Dance 4 Me, Lavaux, Love, etc. circa 1986, they'd be treated now as legendary unreleased songs.

Bullcrap. 1) He wouldn't have written that crap back then. 2) There are plenty of bad outtakes, and I don't care about them. His output of the past 15 years is simply rubbish. I recently came accross Emancipation and even if you put a gun to my head, at least 80% of the songs on that record I can't recall. They're that bad.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.

Gee, what is the NPG Music Club??? I thought that was something that was canceled after the lifetime subscription ran out in my previous lifetime. Damb...I had no idea...good thing somebody is here to correct us about having insane thoughts that there was no NPG Music Club. But if Van Halen says the Club is around to either authorize or not authorize something, then he must be right, correct, etc.

By the way...this post is presented to you ASS-IS, no warranties, no insurance, no mistakes or lies, though I reserve the right to make mistakes, use sarcasm, spell words correctly, and incorrectly, and lie. In No way shape or form is this authorized by Controversy Magazine, or the Love 4 One Another Website.

TrevorAyer said:

yeah but see .. spooky electric sounds cool ... i like it .. it may be odd but it makes sense in a way ... i just cant connect with a lot of his lyrics lately .. they are too contrived .. lacking primal relevance .. like DANCE 4 ME .. sounds like there was a FEELING behind it .. something he liked .. some girl turned him on .. whatever .. BEGINNING ENDLESSLY sounds like he thought it would be cool to write a song called BEGINNING ENDLESSLY and then he wrote a song .. no feeling no emotion no truth .. just im gonna write a song cuz i think putting those 3 words together sounds cool.

spooky electric again .. it may sound corny but he had a feeling he was trying to express .. almost didnt matter what he said .. the feeling emotional shift turmoil awakening .. all that came thru

theres nothing really driving him to write a lot of these songs .. they lack and emotional substance and seem very ego based ... i'd much rather hear him just sing IM LONELY but hes not being honest enuf to come up with that so its all intellectually based.

thats why the new stuff does not hold incense or candles to his older music. he was possessed and the music was coming thru him .. now he is trying to create music but rarely taps the source anymore

So, if I feel the passion in these newer songs and you don't, does that still mean that there is no passion or purpose in his newer songs? I'm not trying to be flippant or sarcastic, but I hear this argument or statement a lot on this site. There is nopassion in the new work. Prince is just going through the motions, but then I listen to "Colonized Mind," and think, "Man, dude is pouring out his soul on this one." The newer songs may not evoke or create passion for you, but that does not mean that he isn't still passionate. Maybe you are in a different place? Maybe what matters to him does not matter to you. And that is natural. I think that it is illogical to think that even one's favorite artist will always move you, especially over an extended length of time. Prince is human, and you are human. I don't neccessarily feel the passion in a song like "Space," but someone does an appreciation thread on it. Just because I don't feel it does not mean that there is no passion. Maybe it's because I love his spiritual direction. Or maybe it's because I just like the music he's created over the past ten years. But, it sure feels passionate to me. It still feels soulful, funky, and rocking. I've been a Prince fan since 1980, and I love "Colonized Mind" as much as anything written in the 80s. So, it's difficult for me to understand how Prince has no more passion or is just going through the motions. And maybe at 40 I don't need from Prince what I needed at 15. It isn't his passion that has faded. It's just that his passions have change or shifted, which I would hope so for a man of 52.

xlr8r said:

<---refills popcorn

Scoot over.

101 said:

nowadayz.i find that Prince is not stretching himself enough musically...

Enough for what?

Maybe he doesn't want to.

Maybe he's doing exactly what he wants to do.

101 said:

...some stuff is so lazy done...

"Lazy" means not putting in the necessary or expected effort, right?

Well, who decides what's necessary?

TrevorAyer said:

better defined : poetry not bragging

singing not rapping or whatever he calls it

melody like in "love" but without all the stupid space jeep sounds ruining the rest of the song

well worn songs ... u know play them out edit them have other musicians contribute ... let them evolve and definately fine tune the lyrics .. make them about something people can feel .. they dont need to make sense or sound like a term paper on spirituality but they need to strike the chord of universal truth, which conceptually in songs like "compassion" they do but poetically its all so cluttered.

OK, so that's what "better" means to you.

But what if Prince has a different opinion?

Just because you don't like a particular piece of music, doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it. Personally, I don't like pineapple - so I simply choose not to eat it. I don't blame the pineapple for "tasting wrong".

ok but if u do like pineapple and you buy a piece of fruit that says "pineapple" on it but when u get it home and take off the packaging/skin there is actually a big terd inside .. wouldnt you tell the store "hey did you know that pineapple your selling is actually a big terd?" "maybe you should change the sign to say pineaterd so people dont think they are gonna get an actual pineapple". OR maybe you might give some examples of what an actual pineapple is so they dont make people sick from accidentally eating pineaterds .. u know sometimes u should just keep ur pineaterds to yourself instead of pawning them off as something they are not .. and maybe you should wait until you have an actual pineapple before you say to someone hey i just got a fresh pineapple wanna try some of it .. um ok .. oh fuck another pineaterd .. sheeet

TrevorAyer said:

ok but if u do like pineapple and you buy a piece of fruit that says "pineapple" on it but when u get it home and take off the packaging/skin there is actually a big terd inside .. wouldnt you tell the store "hey did you know that pineapple your selling is actually a big terd?" "maybe you should change the sign to say pineaterd so people dont think they are gonna get an actual pineapple". OR maybe you might give some examples of what an actual pineapple is so they dont make people sick from accidentally eating pineaterds .. u know sometimes u should just keep ur pineaterds to yourself instead of pawning them off as something they are not .. and maybe you should wait until you have an actual pineapple before you say to someone hey i just got a fresh pineapple wanna try some of it .. um ok .. oh fuck another pineaterd .. sheeet

So you feel that Prince is guilty of false marketing - in what way?