WetDream said:

Marrk said:

Condition of the Heart > than anything on those albums.

Nonesense! ....I can think of 20 tracks from the new one's that are better. If COTH was today...then its "another boring Prince ballad."

Well that confirms to me i probably can't take anything you say seriously from this moment on.

20?!

The last four albums averaged 10 tracks per album. So what you are saying is half that output is better than 'Condition'. I put it to you sir, that it is you who are talking nonsense.

[Edited 7/13/10 15:32pm]

Marrk said:

WetDream said:

Nonesense! ....I can think of 20 tracks from the new one's that are better. If COTH was today...then its "another boring Prince ballad."

Well that confirms to me i probably can't take anything you say seriously from this moment on.

20?!

The last four albums averaged 10 tracks per album. So what you are saying is half that output is better than 'Condition'. I put it to you sir, that it is you who are talking nonsense.

[Edited 7/13/10 15:32pm]

I have always considered him a genious, or at least musically. The only reason he is not taken seriously is because of the public stunts that have made him look a little insane. (name change, slave on face.... etc.)

NouveauDance said:

funkyhead said:

....don't you agree?

No.

we finally agree....

may I also add that in the live arena in thhis period he has continually changed the arrangements of many songs [1 look on youknowwhere from the last few shows will highlight this] and also his setlists vary greatly too i.e. the 02 gigs.

I do not take the word genuis lightly and stand by my argument that any other artist would be labelled as such from 2001-2010. Christ if Robbie Williams has this label constantly thrown at him then what does that make P in comparisson!!!.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

funkyhead said:

....don't you agree?.

Looks like you are the party of NO. Lmao!

MOST music made from about 2000 until now SUCKS.

It seemed to start in about 1997, from what I remember. There is a lack of writing, too much oversinging and run-on notes, and things are TOO POLISHED (Beyonce and Aguilera are two examples- another example is Katy Perry in the song "I Kissed A Girl"- it's like they have to pronounce every word EXTRA proper as they sing it- there's no rugged, raw "I'm gonna get in the studio and just LAY IT DOWN and not give a f**k" emotion" behind the music these days). Look at Johnny Cash. If it wasn't because he was Johnny Cash, people in the country music genre would laugh at him today if he was a new artist, and he would laugh back at them. You know why he would laugh? Because most country artists are horrible too, and it's not really even country music anymore. Cash was country- LeDoux was country- George Jones and Conway Twitty were country.

In R&B, funk, and rock, many people these days would think that George Clinton's music is absolute crap. I know at least a dozen people who think that classic funk music is a bunch of noise, too repetitive, and generally horrible to listen to. But therein lies the problem. The problem is that people have lost sight of what it is to be creative. People like Frank Zappa would be looked at as terrible by many people these days. America in particular has become a nation of music snobs but they are completely in the wrong for doing so. Some people think that a song has to be so polished and so technical that they completely lose sight of the creative process. Music isn't supposed to be about being "proper" and "polished"- it's supposed to be about expressing yourself and be damned anyone or anything else in the way or anyone else's opinion. That's why people in Europe and elsewhere seem to like Prince a lot more than people here in the states do these days. It's because people in Europe are able to listen without barriers and embrace diverse artistry. God, I wish the US was that way again.

If people think that artists like Trey Songz, Matchbox 20, Soulja Boy Tell 'Em (what the eff?) Taylor Swift, and (insert here your mainstream artist from 2000 to now), then I'm sure Prince probably sucks to you. And your taste in music probably sucks to me.

In this way, yes- (compared to the artists these days who don't write their own songs, whine like emo kids in their music, and have nothing better to talk about than pickup trucks, drinking beer, drinking other alcoholic beverages, getting women, being "gangsta", being a "badass independent woman" or wearing gold), Prince is a GENIUS and if his albums were released by any of those other artists they would be considered masterpieces, that is, if those that listened to the albums could even comprehend the messages in the music- because you know, we're dealing with quite low IQ's in the listening pool for those typical mainstream crap artists.

[Edited 7/13/10 18:39pm]

WetDream said:

Marrk said:

Condition of the Heart > than anything on those albums.

Nonesense! ....I can think of 20 tracks from the new one's that are better. If COTH was today...then its "another boring Prince ballad."

Condition of the Heart and Tamborine are both in my list of top 10 favorite Prince songs. All the rest are pre '89.

muleFunk said:

Marrk said:

Condition of the Heart > than anything on those albums.

I love Paisley Park,Raspberry Beret,America,& Pop Life but many of the arguements that are made against this decade's albums can be said for ATWIAD. Condition is a cute song,no doubt, but it doesn't stand up against the stronger material on any of the new millennium's CDs. That's my opinion.

I agree. Condition of the Heart has had 20+ years of fond memories and good times to support it. It's a good song, but not great. A part of me thinks that saying some of his recent ballads are better than Condition of the Heart is like betraying my childhood in 1985. Luckily it's not a competition, it's art and we can have both then and now...no problems.

WetDream said:

Marrk said:

Well that confirms to me i probably can't take anything you say seriously from this moment on.

20?!

The last four albums averaged 10 tracks per album. So what you are saying is half that output is better than 'Condition'. I put it to you sir, that it is you who are talking nonsense.

[Edited 7/13/10 15:32pm]

...and vice versa.

poor response.

Another victory for common sense.

skywalker said:

muleFunk said:

I love Paisley Park,Raspberry Beret,America,& Pop Life but many of the arguements that are made against this decade's albums can be said for ATWIAD. Condition is a cute song,no doubt, but it doesn't stand up against the stronger material on any of the new millennium's CDs. That's my opinion.

I agree. Condition of the Heart has had 20+ years of fond memories and good times to support it. It's a good song, but not great. A part of me thinks that saying some of his recent ballads are better than Condition of the Heart is like betraying my childhood in 1985. Luckily it's not a competition, it's art and we can have both then and now...no problems.

Funny you say that. 'Condition' is not a song i've ever played on a regular basis, I never did. Its not oveplayed like a 'Kiss' or a 'When Doves Cry', infact i might have gone ten years without listening to it. It was never a massive favourite of mine as a 15yr old. Back then i only really liked either his guitar stuff or more danceable material (ballads got played only in my love interests room)

Anyway,I think the song, including the amazing intro is just an amazingly imaginative composition. This is where he probably deserved his 'Modern day Mozart' comparisons.

Not for bargain bin trash like 'Future Baby Mama' which as i understand, might've inexplicably picked up a Grammy. That's amazing for a whole set of other reasons.

I don't disagree with your view but Condition was viewed in 1985 as being overly pretentious and not the two 15 year olds.

The same feeling you had in 1985 is how many feel about other Prince songs/albums now.

I made a collection of Prince ballads for a friend who is a Prince admirer but not a fan. The collection made 4 CDs to her surprise. After listening to her music she told me that she was really loving disks 3&4 and she had never heard that stuff before. Now we are talking about from Gold-2010. Many people missed out on that music for various reasons.The casual R&B listener loves FBM,Call My Name,The Dance,The One,Shhh,Friend Lover,Sister,Mother,Wife and others like them.

JDODSON said:

MOST music made from about 2000 until now SUCKS.

It seemed to start in about 1997, from what I remember. There is a lack of writing, too much oversinging and run-on notes, and things are TOO POLISHED (Beyonce and Aguilera are two examples- another example is Katy Perry in the song "I Kissed A Girl"- it's like they have to pronounce every word EXTRA proper as they sing it- there's no rugged, raw "I'm gonna get in the studio and just LAY IT DOWN and not give a f**k" emotion" behind the music these days). Look at Johnny Cash. If it wasn't because he was Johnny Cash, people in the country music genre would laugh at him today if he was a new artist, and he would laugh back at them. You know why he would laugh? Because most country artists are horrible too, and it's not really even country music anymore. Cash was country- LeDoux was country- George Jones and Conway Twitty were country.

In R&B, funk, and rock, many people these days would think that George Clinton's music is absolute crap. I know at least a dozen people who think that classic funk music is a bunch of noise, too repetitive, and generally horrible to listen to. But therein lies the problem. The problem is that people have lost sight of what it is to be creative. People like Frank Zappa would be looked at as terrible by many people these days. America in particular has become a nation of music snobs but they are completely in the wrong for doing so. Some people think that a song has to be so polished and so technical that they completely lose sight of the creative process. Music isn't supposed to be about being "proper" and "polished"- it's supposed to be about expressing yourself and be damned anyone or anything else in the way or anyone else's opinion. That's why people in Europe and elsewhere seem to like Prince a lot more than people here in the states do these days. It's because people in Europe are able to listen without barriers and embrace diverse artistry. God, I wish the US was that way again.

If people think that artists like Trey Songz, Matchbox 20, Soulja Boy Tell 'Em (what the eff?) Taylor Swift, and (insert here your mainstream artist from 2000 to now), then I'm sure Prince probably sucks to you. And your taste in music probably sucks to me.

In this way, yes- (compared to the artists these days who don't write their own songs, whine like emo kids in their music, and have nothing better to talk about than pickup trucks, drinking beer, drinking other alcoholic beverages, getting women, being "gangsta", being a "badass independent woman" or wearing gold), Prince is a GENIUS and if his albums were released by any of those other artists they would be considered masterpieces, that is, if those that listened to the albums could even comprehend the messages in the music- because you know, we're dealing with quite low IQ's in the listening pool for those typical mainstream crap artists.

[Edited 7/13/10 18:39pm]

Good post.

I totally agree to you about Country Music. Country is so pop now that Conway is turning over in his grave now.

muleFunk said:

I don't disagree with your view but Condition was viewed in 1985 as being overly pretentious and not the two 15 year olds.

The same feeling you had in 1985 is how many feel about other Prince songs/albums now.

I made a collection of Prince ballads for a friend who is a Prince admirer but not a fan. The collection made 4 CDs to her surprise. After listening to her music she told me that she was really loving disks 3&4 and she had never heard that stuff before. Now we are talking about from Gold-2010. Many people missed out on that music for various reasons.The casual R&B listener loves FBM,Call My Name,The Dance,The One,Shhh,Friend Lover,Sister,Mother,Wife and others like them.

Fair enough. Out of those you listed i dig 'The One', 'Shh''' and I love 'Call My Name' myself.The rest? meh.

i'm not going to pretend much of his modern output is particularly artistic, or lyrically well written (that's where he's lost the most imo). FBM is just your casual R&B, as you say. Thank goodness he makes different types of music besides that.

muleFunk said:

JDODSON said:

MOST music made from about 2000 until now SUCKS.

It seemed to start in about 1997, from what I remember. There is a lack of writing, too much oversinging and run-on notes, and things are TOO POLISHED (Beyonce and Aguilera are two examples- another example is Katy Perry in the song "I Kissed A Girl"- it's like they have to pronounce every word EXTRA proper as they sing it- there's no rugged, raw "I'm gonna get in the studio and just LAY IT DOWN and not give a f**k" emotion" behind the music these days). Look at Johnny Cash. If it wasn't because he was Johnny Cash, people in the country music genre would laugh at him today if he was a new artist, and he would laugh back at them. You know why he would laugh? Because most country artists are horrible too, and it's not really even country music anymore. Cash was country- LeDoux was country- George Jones and Conway Twitty were country.

In R&B, funk, and rock, many people these days would think that George Clinton's music is absolute crap. I know at least a dozen people who think that classic funk music is a bunch of noise, too repetitive, and generally horrible to listen to. But therein lies the problem. The problem is that people have lost sight of what it is to be creative. People like Frank Zappa would be looked at as terrible by many people these days. America in particular has become a nation of music snobs but they are completely in the wrong for doing so. Some people think that a song has to be so polished and so technical that they completely lose sight of the creative process. Music isn't supposed to be about being "proper" and "polished"- it's supposed to be about expressing yourself and be damned anyone or anything else in the way or anyone else's opinion. That's why people in Europe and elsewhere seem to like Prince a lot more than people here in the states do these days. It's because people in Europe are able to listen without barriers and embrace diverse artistry. God, I wish the US was that way again.

If people think that artists like Trey Songz, Matchbox 20, Soulja Boy Tell 'Em (what the eff?) Taylor Swift, and (insert here your mainstream artist from 2000 to now), then I'm sure Prince probably sucks to you. And your taste in music probably sucks to me.

In this way, yes- (compared to the artists these days who don't write their own songs, whine like emo kids in their music, and have nothing better to talk about than pickup trucks, drinking beer, drinking other alcoholic beverages, getting women, being "gangsta", being a "badass independent woman" or wearing gold), Prince is a GENIUS and if his albums were released by any of those other artists they would be considered masterpieces, that is, if those that listened to the albums could even comprehend the messages in the music- because you know, we're dealing with quite low IQ's in the listening pool for those typical mainstream crap artists.

[Edited 7/13/10 18:39pm]

Good post.

I totally agree to you about Country Music. Country is so pop now that Conway is turning over in his grave now.

Conway's Dead? Oh no!

nope

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

funkyhead said:

....don't you agree?.

This is an interesting signature, yet it makes perfect sense 2 me...

"Just say No to the party of No!"

And with one arm tied behind your back...stomp to the "YES Party."

Smiles...4 the 44 Magnum...That's right...I fired the party gun, yesterday.

Watch out...cuz' Another one's gonna bite the dust!

Right Freddy?

RRRRRRRRRRRRR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Right...Patches.

thedance said:

hmm I don't agree,

most of the mentioned releases has been average, if not bad.

Musicology, good 7/10

TRC, great 9/10

20Ten, good 8/10

Planet Earth, bad 5/10

3121 bad 5/10

[Xpectation, NEWS], very bad 2/10

live discs ONA, Indigo nights, very bad as well 2/10

The beauty of Prince fans is there are so many different tastes....

To me:

TRC: 6

Musicology: 7

3121: 9

Planet Earth: 6

Lotus/MPLS: 7 or 8

20TEN: 8

[Edited 7/14/10 16:07pm]

muleFunk said:

skywalker said:

Hey, it happened with Around the World in a Day, and Lovesexy. More recently Come. Hell, even New Power Soul is starting to be praised.

I am still trying to understand why people claim to say ATWIAD is a classic. 3121,Musicology,Lotus and even PE are better.

That statement says nothing other than your personal opinion may be at odds with, current, popular thought. That's not exactly a bad thing but it sounds like you aren't aware of how your own subjective opinion slants your perspective.

ATWIAD is not one of my favorites but, for what it is, I think it's remarkably cohesive, consistent and forward looking in the context of his artistic growth. None of the albums you mention, imo, feature all three of those facets.

jtfolden said:

muleFunk said:

I am still trying to understand why people claim to say ATWIAD is a classic. 3121,Musicology,Lotus and even PE are better.

That statement says nothing other than your personal opinion may be at odds with, current, popular thought. That's not exactly a bad thing but it sounds like you aren't aware of how your own subjective opinion slants your perspective.

ATWIAD is not one of my favorites but, for what it is, I think it's remarkably cohesive, consistent and forward looking in the context of his artistic growth. None of the albums you mention, imo, feature all three of those facets.

You are right about opinions because that is what we are talking about.

muleFunk said:

jtfolden said:

That statement says nothing other than your personal opinion may be at odds with, current, popular thought. That's not exactly a bad thing but it sounds like you aren't aware of how your own subjective opinion slants your perspective.

ATWIAD is not one of my favorites but, for what it is, I think it's remarkably cohesive, consistent and forward looking in the context of his artistic growth. None of the albums you mention, imo, feature all three of those facets.

You are right about opinions because that is what we are talking about.

I obviously know that. Do you? As your initial statement certainly didn't indicate that at all.

Compared to the standards of 2000s music, yes his work is genius, however compared to the 80s his latest albums are shit.

Ones I have heard

TRC -1/10

ONA 2/10

ONA LIVE 3/10

NEWS 2/10

Musicology 4/10

3121 7/10

Planet earth 4/10

Lotusflow3r 6/10

MPLSound 7/10

20Ten (Havent heard yet)

Compare 2

Dirty Mind 10/10

Controversy 9/10

1999 10/10

Purple Rain 10/10

ATWIAD 6/10 (The only Joker in the pack)

Parade 10/10

SOTT 11/10

Black Album 8/10

Lovesexy 10/10

Batman 9/10 (Its grown on me some, some really funky cuts here)

Bit of difference me thinks

JDODSON said:

MOST music made from about 2000 until now SUCKS.

It seemed to start in about 1997, from what I remember. There is a lack of writing, too much oversinging and run-on notes, and things are TOO POLISHED (Beyonce and Aguilera are two examples- another example is Katy Perry in the song "I Kissed A Girl"- it's like they have to pronounce every word EXTRA proper as they sing it- there's no rugged, raw "I'm gonna get in the studio and just LAY IT DOWN and not give a f**k" emotion" behind the music these days). Look at Johnny Cash. If it wasn't because he was Johnny Cash, people in the country music genre would laugh at him today if he was a new artist, and he would laugh back at them. You know why he would laugh? Because most country artists are horrible too, and it's not really even country music anymore. Cash was country- LeDoux was country- George Jones and Conway Twitty were country.

In R&B, funk, and rock, many people these days would think that George Clinton's music is absolute crap. I know at least a dozen people who think that classic funk music is a bunch of noise, too repetitive, and generally horrible to listen to. But therein lies the problem. The problem is that people have lost sight of what it is to be creative. People like Frank Zappa would be looked at as terrible by many people these days. America in particular has become a nation of music snobs but they are completely in the wrong for doing so. Some people think that a song has to be so polished and so technical that they completely lose sight of the creative process. Music isn't supposed to be about being "proper" and "polished"- it's supposed to be about expressing yourself and be damned anyone or anything else in the way or anyone else's opinion. That's why people in Europe and elsewhere seem to like Prince a lot more than people here in the states do these days. It's because people in Europe are able to listen without barriers and embrace diverse artistry. God, I wish the US was that way again.

If people think that artists like Trey Songz, Matchbox 20, Soulja Boy Tell 'Em (what the eff?) Taylor Swift, and (insert here your mainstream artist from 2000 to now), then I'm sure Prince probably sucks to you. And your taste in music probably sucks to me.

In this way, yes- (compared to the artists these days who don't write their own songs, whine like emo kids in their music, and have nothing better to talk about than pickup trucks, drinking beer, drinking other alcoholic beverages, getting women, being "gangsta", being a "badass independent woman" or wearing gold), Prince is a GENIUS and if his albums were released by any of those other artists they would be considered masterpieces, that is, if those that listened to the albums could even comprehend the messages in the music- because you know, we're dealing with quite low IQ's in the listening pool for those typical mainstream crap artists.

[Edited 7/13/10 18:39pm]

you make some great points BUT please don't think that Europe is one great melting pot of culture and open mindness - here the UK day time radio is dominated my media giants who just play top 40 trax over and over and over. Also here the rise of X-factor, Pop idol etc has totally dumbed down and reshaped what the masses qualify as great. People now couldn't give a damn if a singer wrote, played or produced a song - as long a sit sounds good who gives a shit kinda attitude.

Totally agree that Prince is taken for granted, overlooked and ignored. The media constantly proclaim whoever the record companies wish to sell lately. If any of these new artists can play piano they are suddenly a musical genius. There is no-one that approaches the technical ability, humanity and humour that Prince brings even on an off day.

I think the media just can't cope with the variety of music that he produces. They like someone like Kylie who reliably churns out much the same stuff for decades - it's easily understood and easy to shove into a box.

Marrk said:

paisleypark4 said:

Marrk said:

Well that confirms to me i probably can't take anything you say seriously from this moment on.

20?!

The last four albums averaged 10 tracks per album. So what you are saying is half that output is better than 'Condition'. I put it to you sir, that it is you who are talking nonsense.

[Edited 7/13/10 15:32pm]

Condition always puts me to sleep..imo its the. Worst track on ATW IAD ..to put a lame ballad on right after Paisley was rediculous to me...but that's why Prince is what he is. U can love a track like that..and u sit and have the nerve to curse the name of a song like Lavaux or Everlasting Now.

I like the 20+ minute version of "America".

once again on sheer diversity this decade kicks mf ass....unfortunate if ya cant/couldnt enjoy it