Hmm, well, yes and no, I suppose.

Long boring post:

I'd like you to define "genius", as it's to me is just a Neo-Romantic term that doesn't really have a bullet proof definition, but is just a bastard word from the 1800s. It seems to me, that genius is two things:

1) Genius is what genius does .. as in Prince himself is not a genius, but the creator of a body of work that is genius. He's just a man, not a genius (and that might seem cynical to the fams, but I think it's more impressive to -consciously- make such albums as Dirty Mind to Gold Experience for a regular, hard working and talented man, than a genius who finds everything easy). The body of work also has to be something that points to the future, and it has to have an effect and impact on other people's work. Plus, I don't believe in genii.

2) Timing is everything, and so is mainstream acclaim. Had Prince done these sounds in the 1970s I doubt the mainstream audience would have given him the success he had in the 1980s. I mean, what if Prince is a man who makes this familiar type of music that we now know as "Prince"? His musical idiosyncrasies have always been present in all of his records, regardless of style and genre, so it is not far fetched to presume that Prince (to dumb it down:) has a way of writing, thinking and playing music that would (and is) be the same regardless of the times he lived in. This means that even Prince has a limited scale or framework of artistry to work with (granted, his framework is a lot bigger than 98 percent of all the other artists out there) and to succeed he had to hit the zeitgeist at the right moment.

My claim here is, that Prince was a certain type of artist with a certain type of earth shattering talent and a certain type of investigatory musical writing, arriving at a very specific time in our history, where a such man would succeed and where the music lovers were hungry for such a man and were perceptive to Prince's specific range of sounds. Talent + timing = genius.

So... I'd claim that Prince might finally have tried out all of his abilities, years back or recently (this is probably two hundred and fifty threads worth of discussion here on the .org), and Prince continues to make the music he's always done. 20ten could probably have been released in the 1980s as a so-so follow up to Dirty Mind - and back then it surely would have been a forward moving piece of work, but since we've heard these blips and beebs and sounds before, incorporated into some near 30 years of music history by other artists who felt inspired by the old geezer and found new ways to use them and made entirely new things out of them, 20ten sounds like a blast from the past, like a nostalgia record seasoned with everything Prince has learned in his career.

Everything in the 2000s is good and solid writing, but unlike the 1980s and some of the 1990s, it no longer points forward or creates the future. Prince now seems to toy around with the things he's learned and accomplished, he's making pot stews and gumbo's from all the ingredients he has in his talent bank, rather than expanding his universe (for instance, what was N.E.W.S. that Madhouse wasn't?). Nothing is wrong with this, in my opinion, as I think all critically acclaimed artists have their heyday at some point in time, and then it's over.

So no, not by a long shot is any Prince album from the 2000s genius, nor is the man himself one. No artist could make 3121 in the 2000s and be called a genius. Why? Because critics would say he stole more than plenty from the sonic library of Prince and needed to develop a style of his own, one that wasn't retro.

(Imagine Prince is a radio that just plays in an empty room. His station plays far more styles and genres than most other stations. Then suddenly in the 1980s people accidentially enters the room and catch up with the music station that Prince is. They party for ten years, and then they move on to other rooms. Prince's radio station, more or less, keeps playing the same tunes as always. No one hears them, except a few who's still hanging around enjoying the tunes. Every once in awhile Prince's radio plays so loud that the people in the other rooms can hear him, but every time that happens, people think: "Yeah, that was cool in the 1980s, great party that was".)

Q '2001 - 2010 - P's release by ANY other artist would be proclaimed as genius..'

A: Err, no.

I totally agree with the OP, if it were any other artist they would be claimed as genius but here the albums get slayed. Trouble is there is alot to live up to.

so in 10 years we've had,

The Rainbow Children

N.E.W.S

One Night Alone

The Chocolate Invasion

Slaughterhouse

C Note

Musicology

3121

Planet Earth

Lotusflow3r

20Ten

plus

ONA live + Indigo Nights

who else has released this much in 10 years?

bigd74 said:

I totally agree with the OP, if it were any other artist they would be claimed as genius but here the albums get slayed. Trouble is there is alot to live up to.

who else has released this much in 10 years?

Quality > Quantity

Prince used to be able to do his whole album a year thing. It doesn't work anymore, good songs are far and fewer between each other. It's to bad he doesn't work an album for 3-4 years and take the best from that time, but I know he'll never do it.

His discography declines year after year to the casual listeners. To them, he's becoming "That guy that was good in the 80's." and nothing more.

muleFunk said:

Looking back on this now is a real WTF moment. Prince only had 5 number 1 songs ????

It's even more shocking in the UK, with just 1. And that was not technically Prince as it was The Most Beautiful Girl In The World, which was by . Not a single one of the 'classics' made it to the top of the UK charts.

WOW !

I did not know that. I thought that he had more in the UK than in the US.

PurpleColossus said:

bigd74 said:

I totally agree with the OP, if it were any other artist they would be claimed as genius but here the albums get slayed. Trouble is there is alot to live up to.

who else has released this much in 10 years?

Quality > Quantity

Prince used to be able to do his whole album a year thing. It doesn't work anymore, good songs are far and fewer between each other. It's to bad he doesn't work an album for 3-4 years and take the best from that time, but I know he'll never do it.

His discography declines year after year to the casual listeners. To them, he's becoming "That guy that was good in the 80's." and nothing more.

Good songs are subjective though. For me there are less skippers on Lotusflow3r and 20Ten than there are on Dirty Mind and 1999. I'm very happy with where Prince is at these days.

The last thing by Prince I thought was great was Scandalous Sex Suite. That last 'genius' moment for me was Adore. There have been a couple good moments since then, but nothing I'm too interested in. I enjoy newer Prince stuff in parts. There's always something interesting on a new Prince record, but not necessarily and entire song.

[Edited 7/13/10 6:18am]

TheEnglishGent said:

Good songs are subjective though. For me there are less skippers on Lotusflow3r and 20Ten than there are on Dirty Mind and 1999. I'm very happy with where Prince is at these days.

Well, of course they are subjective, and I actually love a lot of his 2000's stuff. I'm talking more about the casual listeners. Whenever I mention Prince in my group of friends/acquaintance's they just kind of look at me with that "You listen to Prince " look..

I actually agree that some of his later work his a lot better than some of his 80's stuff.

[Edited 7/13/10 6:08am]

PurpleColossus said:

Whenever I mention Prince in my group of friends/acquaintance's they just kind of look at me with that "You listen to Prince " look..

I'm sure we're all well aware of that look!

TheEnglishGent said:

muleFunk said:

Looking back on this now is a real WTF moment. Prince only had 5 number 1 songs ????

It's even more shocking in the UK, with just 1. And that was not technically Prince as it was The Most Beautiful Girl In The World, which was by . Not a single one of the 'classics' made it to the top of the UK charts.

His lead singles usually hit the top ten for a good few years, he had a pretty good chart run here overall.

Paris9748430 said:

I agree. Look at the critical acclaim Justin Timberlake got with his last album. Look at the love The Dream has been getting .

If Prince's songs the past decade had been performed by a younger artist and packaged as such, the critics would be shitting themselves.

That's why Prince said in one of his songs that the only competition he has is his own past.

If a younger artists had released Dance 4 Me as a single, it would have been a big hit.

The same with Black Sweat

Agreed. Look at Andre 3000's The Love Below. He tapped into his inner Prince and that album was massive. If Prince would have released that album, it would have been categorized as a typical Prince album.

When it comes to Prince fans, there are some who claim to have made up their own minds about Prince's music. However, the reality is that they are heavily influenced by the popular idea that chart success/radio play/popularity/sales = quality music.

[Edited 7/13/10 8:12am]

bigd74 said:

I totally agree with the OP, if it were any other artist they would be claimed as genius but here the albums get slayed. Trouble is there is alot to live up to.

so in 10 years we've had,

The Rainbow Children

N.E.W.S

One Night Alone

The Chocolate Invasion

Slaughterhouse

C Note

Musicology

3121

Planet Earth

Lotusflow3r

20Ten

plus

ONA live + Indigo Nights

who else has released this much in 10 years?

You forgot MPLSound.

jockeyb4u said:

TheVoid said:

There's no excuse for "Everybody Loves Me" and "Laydown"....none. I don't care who the artist is....it's not genius.

To me, the fact that he does release songs like those are part of his genius. I believe there are "real music" lovers who can truly find value in one or both of those songs.

Yesterday I played Arboretum and Laydown back to back for a 28 year old redneck neighbor of mine from Texas who knows nothing about Prince just to show him the extreme diversity in his music.

He was genuinely blown away. He could not believe that those two songs came from the same artist (he loved Laydown BTW).

That is the genius of Prince. It was there in the 80's, and it is still there today.

that's an example of his diversity & versatility, but I'm not sure about genius.

To me his genius was in the creativity, the ability to think of things that nobody else would think of--like changing your name to a symbol or inventing words & concepts like Lovesexy--not to mention creating sounds nobody had ever heard before.

skywalker said:

Paris9748430 said:

I agree. Look at the critical acclaim Justin Timberlake got with his last album. Look at the love The Dream has been getting .

If Prince's songs the past decade had been performed by a younger artist and packaged as such, the critics would be shitting themselves.

That's why Prince said in one of his songs that the only competition he has is his own past.

If a younger artists had released Dance 4 Me as a single, it would have been a big hit.

The same with Black Sweat

Agreed. Look at Andre 3000's The Love Below. He tapped into his inner Prince and that album was massive. If Prince would have released that album, it would have been categorized as a typical Prince album.

When it comes to Prince fans, there are some who claim to have made up their own minds about Prince's music. However, the reality is that they are heavily influenced by the popular idea that chart success/radio play/popularity/sales = quality music.

[Edited 7/13/10 8:12am]

And another reality is that these people will succumb to group think and will hate (fill in the blank) album until the "group" deems the album a classic.

And another reality is that these people will succumb to group think and will hate (fill in the blank) album until the "group" deems the album a classic.

What has become apparent is that there are 3 sides to this board:

People who would eat anything up Prince does

People who will hate anything prince does because they compare it to his past work.

The 3rd group, which I feel I fall in, is people who are fans who are aware of his past genius works and pray he restores some of that glory not by repeating his past or using the same instruments but by pushing boundaries again.

There are moments that I love.... Loved the Rainbow children musically, loved Fury on SNL, loved wasted kisses on NPS, liked some of the tracks on Target release,but overall his albums have been very uneven and uneventful.

Live on any given night with any instrument he can remind you of his genius, and is the best live performer I have ever seen.

Studio in the last 15 years, he has been mediocre.

The answer to the question is no based upon his releases in that date.

aalloca said:

And another reality is that these people will succumb to group think and will hate (fill in the blank) album until the "group" deems the album a classic.

What has become apparent is that there are 3 sides to this board:

People who would eat anything up Prince does

People who will hate anything prince does because they compare it to his past work.

The 3rd group, which I feel I fall in, is people who are fans who are aware of his past genius works and pray he restores some of that glory not by repeating his past or using the same instruments but by pushing boundaries again.

There are moments that I love.... Loved the Rainbow children musically, loved Fury on SNL, loved wasted kisses on NPS, liked some of the tracks on Target release,but overall his albums have been very uneven and uneventful.

Live on any given night with any instrument he can remind you of his genius, and is the best live performer I have ever seen.

Studio in the last 15 years, he has been mediocre.

The answer to the question is no based upon his releases in that date.

Not so sure that you can boil Prince fandom down by putting people into three convenient "groups". That 3rd group, the one you are in, seems very convoluted and particular.

muleFunk said:

skywalker said:

Agreed. Look at Andre 3000's The Love Below. He tapped into his inner Prince and that album was massive. If Prince would have released that album, it would have been categorized as a typical Prince album.

When it comes to Prince fans, there are some who claim to have made up their own minds about Prince's music. However, the reality is that they are heavily influenced by the popular idea that chart success/radio play/popularity/sales = quality music.

[Edited 7/13/10 8:12am]

And another reality is that these people will succumb to group think and will hate (fill in the blank) album until the "group" deems the album a classic.

Hey, it happened with Around the World in a Day, and Lovesexy. More recently Come. Hell, even New Power Soul is starting to be praised.

thedance said:

hmm I don't agree,

most of the mentioned releases has been average, if not bad.

Musicology, good 7/10

TRC, great 9/10

20Ten, good 8/10

Planet Earth, bad 5/10

3121 bad 5/10

[Xpectation, NEWS], very bad 2/10

live discs ONA, Indigo nights, very bad as well 2/10

I have a question and I don't mean to be picky asking you this but how can you grade some thing 8 or 9 out of 10 and call it average? I just find that to be a bit strange but I'm sure you will clarify it to me.

PlayboyOriginal said:

I totally agree and I believe Prince is a fuckin genius whether he's past his prime or not. Its a pleasure to hear new music and watch him perform. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant but to deny the man his greatness is just ignorant and kinda snobby. He still shits on his 80's peers and the generations that will follow. I just wish he had better quality control, stop being a diva, actually promote his albums on television and with concert tours and work with other artists just to keep it interesting. Otherwise no complaints and he's one of my musical heroes.

Marrk said:

funkyhead said:

....don't you agree?.

Please do not turn this into a flame war about how crap you think his music is

So you don't want an opinion unless it agrees with your own?

FAIL.

thankyou so much for that valuable contribution!

PurpleColossus said:

bigd74 said:

I totally agree with the OP, if it were any other artist they would be claimed as genius but here the albums get slayed. Trouble is there is alot to live up to.

who else has released this much in 10 years?

Quality > Quantity

Prince used to be able to do his whole album a year thing. It doesn't work anymore, good songs are far and fewer between each other. It's to bad he doesn't work an album for 3-4 years and take the best from that time, but I know he'll never do it.

His discography declines year after year to the casual listeners. To them, he's becoming "That guy that was good in the 80's." and nothing more.

thats why 360k + extra copies of the Mirror were sold in the UK on 1 day is it?.

skywalker said:

muleFunk said:

And another reality is that these people will succumb to group think and will hate (fill in the blank) album until the "group" deems the album a classic.

Hey, it happened with Around the World in a Day, and Lovesexy. More recently Come. Hell, even New Power Soul is starting to be praised.

I am still trying to understand why people claim to say ATWIAD is a classic. 3121,Musicology,Lotus and even PE are better.

muleFunk said:

skywalker said:

Hey, it happened with Around the World in a Day, and Lovesexy. More recently Come. Hell, even New Power Soul is starting to be praised.

I am still trying to understand why people claim to say ATWIAD is a classic. 3121,Musicology,Lotus and even PE are better.

Condition of the Heart > than anything on those albums.

NDRU said:

jockeyb4u said:

To me, the fact that he does release songs like those are part of his genius. I believe there are "real music" lovers who can truly find value in one or both of those songs.

Yesterday I played Arboretum and Laydown back to back for a 28 year old redneck neighbor of mine from Texas who knows nothing about Prince just to show him the extreme diversity in his music.

He was genuinely blown away. He could not believe that those two songs came from the same artist (he loved Laydown BTW).

That is the genius of Prince. It was there in the 80's, and it is still there today.

that's an example of his diversity & versatility, but I'm not sure about genius.

To me his genius was in the creativity, the ability to think of things that nobody else would think of--like changing your name to a symbol or inventing words & concepts like Lovesexy--not to mention creating sounds nobody had ever heard before.

Yep I agree with this.

jockeyb4u said:

TheVoid said:

There's no excuse for "Everybody Loves Me" and "Laydown"....none. I don't care who the artist is....it's not genius.

To me, the fact that he does release songs like those are part of his genius. I believe there are "real music" lovers who can truly find value in one or both of those songs.

Yesterday I played Arboretum and Laydown back to back for a 28 year old redneck neighbor of mine from Texas who knows nothing about Prince just to show him the extreme diversity in his music.

He was genuinely blown away. He could not believe that those two songs came from the same artist (he loved Laydown BTW).

That is the genius of Prince. It was there in the 80's, and it is still there today.

funkyhead said:

Marrk said:

So you don't want an opinion unless it agrees with your own?

FAIL.

thankyou so much for that valuable contribution!

I didn't like the way the question was posed that's all. But hey, no problem!

Marrk said:

muleFunk said:

I am still trying to understand why people claim to say ATWIAD is a classic. 3121,Musicology,Lotus and even PE are better.

Condition of the Heart > than anything on those albums.

Marrk said:

muleFunk said:

I am still trying to understand why people claim to say ATWIAD is a classic. 3121,Musicology,Lotus and even PE are better.

Condition of the Heart > than anything on those albums.

I love Paisley Park,Raspberry Beret,America,& Pop Life but many of the arguements that are made against this decade's albums can be said for ATWIAD. Condition is a cute song,no doubt, but it doesn't stand up against the stronger material on any of the new millennium's CDs. That's my opinion.