JoeTyler said:

Good thread

Musicology: I LIKED when it first came out, and I still like it; it's a straight-ahead, organic rock/funk record (something that Prince never did before, at least since For You) full of well-crafted songs. Nothing truly spectacular, but it's certainly a fine comeback which also features two neo-classics: title-track and Cinnamon Girl.

And it's certainly BETTER than: For You, Come, Emancipation, NPS, Rave and TRC, and of course the Internet albums of the first half of the 00s...

*** out of *****

3121: I LOVED when it first came out, and I STILL love it; it was the best mainstream album he has done since D&P and his best album overall since TGE. Not only it was a Nº1 (a triumph , really, given the state of the industry, the drop of Cd sales during the second half of the 00s and the heavy pop/synth-dance/shit-hop competition) but it was also the first modern Prince album that had that "magic" spark (vision, good songs, great production, great musicianship AND good song order) of his great 80s and early 90s albums. A spark long lost after TGE. For me, all the tracks are worthy, some are classics (title-track, Fury, The Word, Black Sweat) and others are even improvements over similar songs on previous albums (Satisfied/On the Couch, Lolita-Love/Emancipation dance tracks, etc.). A great album that was the best thing Prince could write/produce/arrange in the mid-00s after the Musicology comeback; it feels contemporary, but it doesn't sound desperate or forced...just natural and enjoyable...

Also, this album is useful if you want to detect/avoid/ridicule JADED/BITTER/CYNICAL Prince "fans" who just can't appreciate new & solid albums of the man. Anyone who hates this album IS jaded Perhaps they hate seeing Prince ENJOYING his superstar status (sort of) all over again after years of self-indulgence and horrid albums that nobody gave a damn about 3121 IS better than: For You, Prince, ATWIAD, Lovesexy, Batman, GB, Come, Emancipation, NPS, Rave and TRC, the Internet albums, Musicology, PE, LF/MPLS and 20Ten

**** out of *****

Planet Earth: I enjoyed it when it first came out, but now it sounds pretty bland and uneven; I still regard Chelsea Rodgers as a neo-classic, but Guitar still sucks, and SHOE doesn't move the way it used to. I despise FBM and Mr.G as 3121 weak outtakes and the happy pop/rock songs (ATMITW/Resolution) sound like pale imitators of What do you want to do girl or Dear Mr.Man

Not a horrid record, but certainly uneven. Still, it's more focused and enjoyable than the bulk of LF, MPLS and 20Ten.

** out of *****

[Edited 7/14/10 17:58pm]

see, I feel just the opposite. I feel that if fans don't like LF, MPLS or 20Ten, then they are the jaded ones that can't appreciate when he's offering up something that's actually good or fun or even (in the case of LF) a return to form. 3121, to me, chases trends, is uneven as hell and has some of the most bland, phoned-in work of these last 6 albums.

Musicology: Loved it then, Still loving it now. Proved he can STILL make an 'accessible' album- on his terms. A Million Days STILL being my fave track, ironically it's got a demo-like feel which makes it sounded like he picked it up from The Gold Experience cutting room floor. What Do You Want Me 2 DO was a nod to Prince of 'old' while moving forward.

3121: Jumping on the Auto-tune bandwagon a bit, but "beautiful, Loved and Blessed" deserved the airplay it got for sure. "Get On The Boat" is heavily overrated.

Planet Earth: Isn't that just another name for "Earth Song"? Album sucked, SHOE could have been an all time classic Prince Ballad, but "Adore" it'll never be. If Chelsea Rodgers should have replaced "Get On The Boat" - so funkily out of place for such a disappointment, What were the other songs again?

LotusFlorwer: Best album was Bria Valente's by far... As for the rest - If I wanted to hear demos, I'd make my own music.

'dre

hollywooddove said:

That's an interesting way to do it.

3121 teeters on greatness, Planet Earth has some really wonderful moments (title track, Guitar, Somewhere here on Earth), Musicology is BORING!

I went nuts about 3121 when it was released on March 22 2006, and I am still nuts about it now, the first four songs are true classics, 3121, Lolita, Te Amo Corazon and Black Sweat, the true alchemist of four different styles in four different songs. Listening to these songs back to back just proves Prince is a master of all styles of music. This album stands above all the millenium ones, as it was the only one I saw some signs of the genius level Prince had back in the 80s, he must have been a great creative bent when he wrote these tracks.

PurpleKnight said:

...Do you still regard them as favourably? Have they retained their charm?

I always find it very interesting when people praise a new Prince album. There is always that early pocket of passionate listeners who proclaim Prince has rediscovered his form; that we have a new classic on our hands. It's happening right now with 20Ten too.

I'm leaving Lotus/MPLSound out of this because it still hasn't aged enough.

I Love them all.

Huggiebear said:

I went nuts about 3121 when it was released on March 22 2006, and I am still nuts about it now, the first four songs are true classics, 3121, Lolita, Te Amo Corazon and Black Sweat, the true alchemist of four different styles in four different songs. Listening to these songs back to back just proves Prince is a master of all styles of music. This album stands above all the millenium ones, as it was the only one I saw some signs of the genius level Prince had back in the 80s, he must have been a great creative bent when he wrote these tracks.

Lolita is a wannabe 80's Time song, but nowhere near as good.

Black Sweat is nothing special.

Te Amo and 3121 are cool though.

On the whole I find 3121 highly overrated.

Musicology: was my second Prince album, after Batman (way back in '89). Hadn't picked up or heard a note of his outside of Batman, and when this album was getting tons of press, I though "why not?" and picked up a copy. And as soon as I finished listening to the whole thing, I regretted it. I liked the title track, and "A Million Days"...hated Illusion Coma Pimp & Circumstance, and was ambivalent about the rest. I really thought "why did I spend money on this?" However....after several listens (I refused to chuck it without giving it a couple more tries) I started to like it. By now, I still don't love the album, but I liked it enough to start going back and buying older CDs. (Still don't care for ICP&C though...)

3121: LOVED it. Played it nonstop. the title track caught me off gaurd the first time, but it's one of my faves on the disc. By now, I still love it, though "The Dance" doesn't effect me as much as it did.

Planet Earth: SO disappointed in this after 3121. Two many ballads in the middle (and none of them good)...and an overall "blah" feeling about the tracks. The final two were two light for my taste.

=0P

PurpleKnight said:

jdcxc said:

Different songs have different reference points and purpose. With over 2,000 songs in his catalog, I'm sure Prince can distinguish between fun, clever, deep, thought-provoking, political, satirical, and throwaway lyrics.

You point out ICNTTPOYM, but on the same album he screams the joys of a dance called "Housequake" and the desire of "It." Your bleeding the joy out of Rock and Roll. Do you critique Tutti Frutti and JB's Mother Popcorn in the same way. If you prefer the rambling, tuneless, obvious lyrical work of lesser musicians, give me some examples.

Prince can't win with some of you. The thought provoking, challenging, brilliant Avalanche gets attacked for being too radical and political, but when he tries to have summer fun he gets called a teen pop star.

I fully understand and appreciate that different songs are aiming for different moods and levels of seriousness. Even so, taken in the context of a lighthearted pop song, The One U Wanna C drowns in its own insipidness. Prince used to take lightearted pop songs like these and imbue them with either lyrical subtext (see: Alphabet St.) or at an even more lighthearted level, at least breezy seamless charm (see: Kiss). The One U Wanna C has nothing to offer from either end of the spectrum, so it settles on banal superficiality stated straightforwardly and without wit.

And for the record, I regard Avalanche as a fantastic song on a woefully underrated gem of an album (his best of the '00 period by far imo).

I agree with most of your points. During the last ten years, P has had moments of lyrical laziness. My main problem with some of his recent songwriting, is that he has lost some of the introspection, strange worldview, edge, and baroque weird observations of his mid-late eighties work.

But I also think some of the criticism of his later work is also just pure laziness on the part of the listener. There are gems and genius mixed in with all of the lesser work yet people tend to dismiss it as a whole. If you edited the great songs out over the last twenty years, the remaining albums would be brilliant classics. He just records so much material as part of his creative process that people get lost and can't absorb it all. That's why on this site you see revisionist analysis of albums like Come, The Vault, The Truth and Emancipation among his fans.

Musicology is a HEAVILY disciplined and accessible Rainbow Children... 3121 just piggybacks off Musicology - RECOGNISE!!!!

'dre

DreZone said:

Musicology is a HEAVILY disciplined and accessible Rainbow Children... 3121 just piggybacks off Musicology - RECOGNISE!!!!

'dre

Huh? In what way? It bears no similarity to TRC in any regard.

Am I missing something?

[Edited 7/15/10 21:43pm]

PurpleKnight said:

DreZone said:

Musicology is a HEAVILY disciplined and accessible Rainbow Children... 3121 just piggybacks off Musicology - RECOGNISE!!!!

'dre

Huh? In what way? It bears no similarity to TRC in any regard.

Am I missing something?

[Edited 7/15/10 21:43pm]

First of all, same band, thus a not too dissimilar sound, just less of the overactive solos and elaborate instrumental breaks.

Second, would you compare this album to say "Rave Un2" sonically?

That''s my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

'dre

DreZone said:

PurpleKnight said:

Huh? In what way? It bears no similarity to TRC in any regard.

Am I missing something?

[Edited 7/15/10 21:43pm]

First of all, same band, thus a not too dissimilar sound, just less of the overactive solos and elaborate instrumental breaks.

Second, would you compare this album to say "Rave Un2" sonically?

That''s my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

'dre

TRC sounds like organic jazz fusion mixed with funk while Musicology sounds like a stripped down pop album lacking reverb.

LOL No, I would not compare this album to Rave Un2, sonically. Would you compare Hitler's youth to his years as Führer, ethically? Silly random comparison is silly.

I would say Lotus sounds more like TRC, sonically.

PurpleKnight said:

I would say Lotus sounds more like TRC, sonically...

I ain't touchin' this with a 10 foot pole!

'dre

I still like them.

I wasn't really into "3121" as a whole when it first came out - too much beyoncé on some of the tracks - but I really can't be bothered to complain about it anymore either. I'd say his from-TRC-to-20ten run has been more consistent and in many ways better than his 90s output. He was perhaps more inspired in the 90s, but it was a terribly patchy decade. I really don't think that highly of "Diamonds & Pearls" or "Symbol" anymore. "NPS" and "Rave" felt weak on the first listen and my opinion on them hasn't changed either.

novabrkr said:

I still like them.

I wasn't really into "3121" as a whole when it first came out - too much beyoncé on some of the tracks - but I really can't be bothered to complain about it anymore either. I'd say his from-TRC-to-20ten run has been more consistent and in many ways better than his 90s output. He was perhaps more inspired in the 90s, but it was a terribly patchy decade. I really don't think that highly of "Diamonds & Pearls" or "Symbol" anymore. "NPS" and "Rave" felt weak on the first listen and my opinion on them hasn't changed either.

That is precisely why I actually prefer the 90's period to his 00's output. TRC aside (though the album as a whole disgusts me), there is nothing from any of these albums so far that matches the high points of his 90's gems.

The 90's were undoubtedly plagued by bizarre choices and wild inconsistency, but at least you could still rely on him to record a heartstopping track or two that you just knew would never be forgotten. These last albums have lacked the same inspiration and fervour of some of his 90's work.

Not one guitar-heavy track in the 00's can match the energy of Endorpinmachine, not one break-up ballad can match the emotion of I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, not one fun pop song can match the hook of Cream, etc.

He was really onto something with TRC. If that album didn't have literally repulsive lyrics and the obtrusive narrator voice, it would be classic. Oh how I wish he would return to that kind of attempt at a forward-looking, innovative, genuinely inspired direction.

I hate TRC, but it still represents Prince trying to create art. He doesn't sound like he wants to make art anymore. It is more like he just wants to placate enough people to maintain his public image and host parties at his mansion.

[Edited 7/16/10 12:56pm]

I got nearly all Prince albums in 2007, when I really got to understand the man/his music.

I liked Musicology and 3121 right from the start, but it took a bit for Planet Earth to grow on me. Now I like them all, but still find Musicology the best of the lot. To me, that is a brilliant, flawless album.

I don't return to 3121 and Planet Earth as often as I return to Musicology, but most songs on those two albums really started to grow on me; especially the ones I didn't really understand first, like Black Sweat, Love, The Word, The Dance, Lion Of Judah, Resolution, The One U Wanna C. Now, I thing they're all classics, or at least very good songs.

PurpleKnight said:

novabrkr said:

I still like them.

I wasn't really into "3121" as a whole when it first came out - too much beyoncé on some of the tracks - but I really can't be bothered to complain about it anymore either. I'd say his from-TRC-to-20ten run has been more consistent and in many ways better than his 90s output. He was perhaps more inspired in the 90s, but it was a terribly patchy decade. I really don't think that highly of "Diamonds & Pearls" or "Symbol" anymore. "NPS" and "Rave" felt weak on the first listen and my opinion on them hasn't changed either.

That is precisely why I actually prefer the 90's period to his 00's output. TRC aside (though the album as a whole disgusts me), there is nothing from any of these albums so far that matches the high points of his 90's gems.

The 90's were undoubtedly plagued by bizarre choices and wild inconsistency, but at least you could still rely on him to record a heartstopping track or two that you just knew would never be forgotten. These last albums have lacked the same inspiration and fervour of some of his 90's work.

Not one guitar-heavy track in the 00's can match the energy of Endorpinmachine, not one break-up ballad can match the emotion of I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, not one fun pop song can match the hook of Cream, etc.

He was really onto something with TRC. If that album didn't have literally repulsive lyrics and the obtrusive narrator voice, it would be classic. Oh how I wish he would return to that kind of attempt at a forward-looking, innovative, genuinely inspired direction.

I hate TRC, but it still represents Prince trying to create art. He doesn't sound like he wants to make art anymore. It is more like he just wants to placate enough people to maintain his public image and host parties at his mansion.

[Edited 7/16/10 12:56pm]

Doesn't Lotus match some of the musicality of TRC without the same agenda and without the annoying narration?

I know the songs are not as far flung as TRC, it's like the younger cousin of the album. But it nears some of the musical highs without the conceptual lows.

NDRU said:

PurpleKnight said:

That is precisely why I actually prefer the 90's period to his 00's output. TRC aside (though the album as a whole disgusts me), there is nothing from any of these albums so far that matches the high points of his 90's gems.

The 90's were undoubtedly plagued by bizarre choices and wild inconsistency, but at least you could still rely on him to record a heartstopping track or two that you just knew would never be forgotten. These last albums have lacked the same inspiration and fervour of some of his 90's work.

Not one guitar-heavy track in the 00's can match the energy of Endorpinmachine, not one break-up ballad can match the emotion of I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, not one fun pop song can match the hook of Cream, etc.

He was really onto something with TRC. If that album didn't have literally repulsive lyrics and the obtrusive narrator voice, it would be classic. Oh how I wish he would return to that kind of attempt at a forward-looking, innovative, genuinely inspired direction.

I hate TRC, but it still represents Prince trying to create art. He doesn't sound like he wants to make art anymore. It is more like he just wants to placate enough people to maintain his public image and host parties at his mansion.

[Edited 7/16/10 12:56pm]

Doesn't Lotus match some of the musicality of TRC without the same agenda and without the annoying narration?

I know the songs are not as far flung as TRC, it's like the younger cousin of the album. But it nears some of the musical highs without the conceptual lows.

I never really got the comparison of the two. They're both brilliant albums on their own, but I don't think Lotusflow3r shares anything with The Rainbow Children. TRC is innovative, Jazz and Funk inspired, and Lotusflow3r is a straight up Pop album with real instrumentation and some hints at great musicianship, but the songwriting overall suggest commercial Pop on Lotusflow3r, whereas TRC was more "free" in its approach to music.

I love them both equally, though.

Dave1992 said:

NDRU said:

Doesn't Lotus match some of the musicality of TRC without the same agenda and without the annoying narration?

I know the songs are not as far flung as TRC, it's like the younger cousin of the album. But it nears some of the musical highs without the conceptual lows.

I never really got the comparison of the two. They're both brilliant albums on their own, but I don't think Lotusflow3r shares anything with The Rainbow Children. TRC is innovative, Jazz and Funk inspired, and Lotusflow3r is a straight up Pop album with real instrumentation and some hints at great musicianship, but the songwriting overall suggest commercial Pop on Lotusflow3r, whereas TRC was more "free" in its approach to music.

I love them both equally, though.

maybe, I suppose the first & last tracks are what really made me compare the two initially. They clearly remind me of the interlude between The Rainbow Children & Muse 2 the Pharoah. Maybe it's the live feel of the two albums, or the fact that Lotus feels more inspired than Planet Earth (another live sounding album), as TRC sounded inspired.

TRC has some pop moments in She Loves Me, Last December, The Work. I think of Lotus as a distillation of the same spirit, removing the extremes into a more streamlined presentation.

NDRU said:

Dave1992 said:

I never really got the comparison of the two. They're both brilliant albums on their own, but I don't think Lotusflow3r shares anything with The Rainbow Children. TRC is innovative, Jazz and Funk inspired, and Lotusflow3r is a straight up Pop album with real instrumentation and some hints at great musicianship, but the songwriting overall suggest commercial Pop on Lotusflow3r, whereas TRC was more "free" in its approach to music.

I love them both equally, though.

maybe, I suppose the first & last tracks are what really made me compare the two initially. They clearly remind me of the interlude between The Rainbow Children & Muse 2 the Pharoah. Maybe it's the live feel of the two albums, or the fact that Lotus feels more inspired than Planet Earth (another live sounding album), as TRC sounded inspired.

TRC has some pop moments in She Loves Me, Last December, The Work. I think of Lotus as a distillation of the same spirit, removing the extremes into a more streamlined presentation.

Yeah, sounds on-point to me.

jackmitz said:

The second half of 'Musicology' contains some of his strongest, most mature songwriting. Period.

Dear Mr. Man could use a little more thought in the lyrics. Water is a precious commodity, but I don't drink sea water - do you?

NDRU said:

PurpleKnight said:

That is precisely why I actually prefer the 90's period to his 00's output. TRC aside (though the album as a whole disgusts me), there is nothing from any of these albums so far that matches the high points of his 90's gems.

The 90's were undoubtedly plagued by bizarre choices and wild inconsistency, but at least you could still rely on him to record a heartstopping track or two that you just knew would never be forgotten. These last albums have lacked the same inspiration and fervour of some of his 90's work.

Not one guitar-heavy track in the 00's can match the energy of Endorpinmachine, not one break-up ballad can match the emotion of I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, not one fun pop song can match the hook of Cream, etc.

He was really onto something with TRC. If that album didn't have literally repulsive lyrics and the obtrusive narrator voice, it would be classic. Oh how I wish he would return to that kind of attempt at a forward-looking, innovative, genuinely inspired direction.

I hate TRC, but it still represents Prince trying to create art. He doesn't sound like he wants to make art anymore. It is more like he just wants to placate enough people to maintain his public image and host parties at his mansion.

[Edited 7/16/10 12:56pm]

Doesn't Lotus match some of the musicality of TRC without the same agenda and without the annoying narration?

I know the songs are not as far flung as TRC, it's like the younger cousin of the album. But it nears some of the musical highs without the conceptual lows.

Lotus comes closest imo, but it suffers from banal lyrics and a few throwaways. Don't get me wrong though: I still like Lotus.

I would rate Lotus (the actual album, that is) **** out of *****, and his second best album of the '00 period behind ONA: Solo Piano & Voice.

[Edited 7/16/10 14:53pm]

PurpleKnight said:

...Do you still regard them as favourably? Have they retained their charm?

I always find it very interesting when people praise a new Prince album. There is always that early pocket of passionate listeners who proclaim Prince has rediscovered his form; that we have a new classic on our hands. It's happening right now with 20Ten too.

I'm leaving Lotus/MPLSound out of this because it still hasn't aged enough.

You could say the same for any Prince album though. I love the Symbol album, but not as much as when it first came out. Prince is to the point now where he's released so many albums that he can't do anything "new" that would be favorably compared with his past. That doesn't mean his new albums aren't good, it's just that the time period has passed and 1) fans know what to expect from Prince and 2) he's too old or weird for others to care about. This isn't the same as the George Lucas syndrome --> those 3 new Star Wars are terrible on any scale. Absolutely dreadful, horribly written, irrelevant movies. Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth, Lotus, MPLSoUND, and 20TEN are simply "Prince albums".

PurpleKnight said:

novabrkr said:

I still like them.

I wasn't really into "3121" as a whole when it first came out - too much beyoncé on some of the tracks - but I really can't be bothered to complain about it anymore either. I'd say his from-TRC-to-20ten run has been more consistent and in many ways better than his 90s output. He was perhaps more inspired in the 90s, but it was a terribly patchy decade. I really don't think that highly of "Diamonds & Pearls" or "Symbol" anymore. "NPS" and "Rave" felt weak on the first listen and my opinion on them hasn't changed either.

That is precisely why I actually prefer the 90's period to his 00's output. TRC aside (though the album as a whole disgusts me), there is nothing from any of these albums so far that matches the high points of his 90's gems.

The 90's were undoubtedly plagued by bizarre choices and wild inconsistency, but at least you could still rely on him to record a heartstopping track or two that you just knew would never be forgotten. These last albums have lacked the same inspiration and fervour of some of his 90's work.

Not one guitar-heavy track in the 00's can match the energy of Endorpinmachine, not one break-up ballad can match the emotion of I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, not one fun pop song can match the hook of Cream, etc.

He was really onto something with TRC. If that album didn't have literally repulsive lyrics and the obtrusive narrator voice, it would be classic. Oh how I wish he would return to that kind of attempt at a forward-looking, innovative, genuinely inspired direction.

I hate TRC, but it still represents Prince trying to create art. He doesn't sound like he wants to make art anymore. It is more like he just wants to placate enough people to maintain his public image and host parties at his mansion.

[Edited 7/16/10 12:56pm]

I agree with you, to a point, regarding The Rainbow Children. While I don't have the "disgust" and "hate" of that album that you do (for me the last four tracks are among his best of the last fifteen years) I don't think it's a modern classic either. For the most part I really enjoy the music that Prince has recorded circa 2004-2010 but I do feel like much of that era is too "safe" and I would like to see him try something adventureous like The Rainbow Children again. Which is ironic because during the 2000-2003 era I was dying to hear Prince do a straight up pop album. I know some people may think that I am another impossible to please Prince fan but I think that maybe he could balance things out a bit better. He's pretty much doing an album a year, how about alternating pop albums with more experimental albums? I'd be fine with that.

"I hate 20Ten, why arent people bashing this album like they did to his previous string of releases. I'l make a thread and try to prove to the people who like it that they will eventually tire of the music and successfully justify my hatred while boosting my ego"

PurpleKnight said:

...Do you still regard them as favourably? Have they retained their charm?

I always find it very interesting when people praise a new Prince album. There is always that early pocket of passionate listeners who proclaim Prince has rediscovered his form; that we have a new classic on our hands. It's happening right now with 20Ten too.

I'm leaving Lotus/MPLSound out of this because it still hasn't aged enough.

I haven't listened to 3121 or Musicology for awhile. But, I still jam "Chelsea Rodgers" quite frequently. It's in my constant mp3 rotation. And I like a few of the songs on 20Ten just as much as Chelsea Rodgers, so I can see myself adding them to my constant rotation.

I still like the 3121 CD though. It's really good. I like the sound of most of the CD. Planet Earth is good- some of it's not my thing, but I still like it. Musicology is good too, but there again, some of it isn't my thing. I'm a deep funk and new wave kind of guy, and since the 20Ten album has the Linn drums, I immediately loved it. That's why I love Chelsea Rodgers from PE and most of the 3121 album too. So, as you can probably also guess, my favorite album of Prince's over the last 10 years is The Rainbow Children. Nothing can mess with the One Nite Alone Live video version of "1+1+1=3". You should check it out if you get the chance.