New topic
Printable
No, I'd just like to read some well-written, professional reviews. Good or bad.
And I think Prince does fine hurting his rep all on his own. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but saying he isn't relevant isn't a slight on him. A lot of my favourite artists past and present aren't in the media spotlight and it is justifiably hard to find reviews for them with their officially released albums, nevermind something like this with an unusual alternative release format. "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think its less about being relevant and more about Prince not working through the proper label machine in terms of publicity and the like....When you are not doing rhe label thing, it's hard to get mainstream coverage...But I think Prince is different in that media outlets will be covering this album due to 1) his name and 2) the Internet-is-dead comment he made...
In other words, he will get his press....good or bad... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Hey man, I get the euphoria of hearing new Prince songs that are actually better than his last release! It' something we crave deeply -- but after that initial desire stopped clouding my ears - it became an average album - better than his last release, but still average. Some VERY standout tracks for sure - track 1 -3 are amazing, and so is Laydown. but the rest of the album is nothing but a dissapointment - i can't even listen to "act of god" anymore. Lavaux sounds like Prince is referrencing himself rather than being himself. Now don't get me wrong, I'm thankful and happy to have some good new music to listen to - but i'm just taking a few tracks and putting them into my summer mix tape rather than enjoy a masterpiece of an album. I'll be patiently waiting | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince hasn't been relevant to anyone other than people on these boards for decades.
Relevance implies one has something to offer/inform/influence one's peers and Prince aping the sounds of others or repeating himself isn't about to influence anyone. Imagine you're a young kid in a band in Minneapolis, you turn on your radio and you hear... Hot Summer. Yeah, that'll work.
Prince's target audience is now the same as Neil Diamond, The Rolling Stones, Peter Gabriel, etc. And people who think modern pop groups are going to be influenced by crap like 20ten are as delusional as the song Laydown.
In his current trajectory, at best, all Prince has to offer is a few catchy pop songs every gimmicky album release cycle. But he needs to pray to Jehovah for some melody because he sure as hell can't write a lyric anymore.
And yes, that NME review was spot on. It's the type of review you get when the reviewer listens to more than Prince, associated acts, Michael Jackson and Beyonce. No hard feelings. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
He was just named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by time magazine. I'd say that's relevant.
The album is great, there were just two pages of links to quite a few reviews, most of which were positive. As they should be, the album is very good. I'm sure he's increased his fan base in the countries that are giving away the album. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Straw man argument. Wall's claim is that Prince has been culturally irrelevant since the early 1990's, and it's hard to argue against that.
You'd have to be schizophrenic to think he was named among the 100 most influential people for songs like Musicology or Black Sweat.
It's the same fact that underlies why people cheer for him when he makes appearances on talk shows or awards shows. It isn't the man behind songs like Lolita or Mr. Goodnight that they're idolizing - it's the creator of songs like The Beautiful Ones, When Doves Cry, Little Red Corvette, Adore, etc. [Edited 7/12/10 22:34pm] The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
With all due respect....shut the fuck up....
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I've been like a sea saw with this album. Some spins i love it! some spins. I'm like ehh it's okay... I guees it's a mood album for me! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Well, what "albums" and "artists" are influential now? Lady Gaga? Jay Z? I would never listen to that garbage. I want you to list songs, artists, and albums that are so much better than Prince's recent output, including 20ten.
And the bands you list are all classic bands and artists. Prince is definitely more prolific than they are, but anyway, it's an honor to be compared to such legendary acts. No other artist is "relevant" that has been around 30+ years. That's just the way it goes, no matter what.
Realistically, the only things holding Prince back from being "relevant" musically are his age, his past, and the fact he doesn't play the music business game. No matter how great his songs would be, the corporate machine known as Clear Channel would never play his new music on their stations. MTV is all but dead and irrelevant.
I also guarantee you that Prince IS relevant and influential in the ways in which he distributes his music, owns his masters, and disregards the corporate machine. As great as Prince is musically, he may be best remembered for being the first real artist who turned his back on major labels during a time (1993) when most everyone else thought he was crazy and didn't know what he was talking about. Remember the review of Come in Rolling Stone? The reviewer spent 90% of the review saying Prince was a spoiled idiot and wrong for going against Warner Brothers. 15 years later and Prince was proven RIGHT, as everyone from NIN to Radiohead operate in an independent manner. The music industry is dead. Record labels are nearly dead. Artists worth anything are more knowledgeable now about how record companies operate and the importance of owning your music. And guess what... Prince is still releasing albums, owning his music, and getting paid without being involved in the dead music industry. And you call his success a "gimmick". Give me a break.
Prince's career is incredible. At the very least, you can say his 15 first years he was relevant musically, and the last 15 years he was relevant in establishing artist's rights and how to be release your music independently, own your masters, and still get paid. Sounds like a great career to me, one that any artist would kill for.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
What a sophisticated reply. Can I quote you for one of my upcoming academic papers? The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Indeed u can Knight...And u can also quote some of my past written work if that helps...
I'm always here for support....
[Edited 7/12/10 23:04pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
That's the same as any catalog artist though... after a certain amount of years, no matter what you create it will not be viewed in the same light as your earlier works. If Black Sweat was released by Usher, Justin Timberlake, or another artist in the "in crowd" it would have been a #1 smash. There is definitely a hidden bias against Prince for many reasons...
However there is really nothing Prince can do about it. Nothing. Look at Woody Allen. Every movie he releases, critics say it's not as good as his best. His movies don't make much money. But he finds ways to continue working and releasing movies. But in the end, he'll be remembered as one of the best ever. Same with Prince. Not bad company to keep... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
NeoGeo24bit,
I don't think you're taking this seriously enough. Footnote that Rolling Stone article from '93 and maybe I'll give your last post a most serious read.
And if someone was tasked to inform the org of music outside of Prince and The Jackson Family, I imagine they'd be a rather busy person for the next few years. Start digging on your own. Leap in, it's not my job to help get you out of your Prince phase.
Murph,
Thanks for keeping it to the point. One of your patented lol's would have softened the blow somewhat, but so it goes. And credit where credit's due-- you held off on yet another "Why don't you people just leave the .org" post and that took guts. No hard feelings. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
You can easily find the Come review, it's on rollingstone.com. I'll post it anyway.
And you're the one who mentioned that NME's review was correct, and would be correct if people listened to other music besides Prince. Therefore, I asked you what specific songs and albums are so great compared to 20ten? I'll make it easy on you... give me 5 albums from 2010.
Hmm ... let's see. Tombstone on the cover proclaiming 1993 as the year of Prince's death. A dramatic recollection from an abused child, complete with a scarifying warning: "Don't abuse children, or else they'll turn out like me." Vague talk about change, cosmic and otherwise. Could this be the major career announcement that has been pending since Prince, with a wave of his press agent's wand, became (The Symbol)
Not so fast. Turns out that not much has changed except the name. The former Prince is still playing Artist Knows Best: When Warner Bros. shut down Paisley Park Records and cautioned him about flooding the market, what did this royal pain do? He set up another label, arranged independent distribution for his overflow goods and promptly scored a told-you-so hit with the puzzlingly Princelike "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World," Then he announced that he would fulfill his contract with Warner Bros. by issuing material from the countless reels of studio tape he made as Prince. Come, whose songs carry a 1994 publishing registration, is the first such archive collection. Naturally this "old" material is not to be confused with the music and worldview of the new, unpronounceable (The Symbol).
Whatever you do, appreciate these latest moves as part of what has become the most spectacular slow-motion career derailment in the history of popular music. Ordinary artists just make duds; this guy specializes in public-relations catastrophes that confuse his loyal following and erode his stature as the major genre-busting innovator of the last decade. Ordinary artists tear up albums and start again; he's tearing up his entire identity and starting again.
So far, however, this grand makeover-in-progress feels like another layer of pancake plastered onto the face of a tired actor. (The Symbol) might not be Prince anymore, but he still has the same toolbox. There's nothing on the uneven Come or the 1-800 New Funk compilation, which was written and produced entirely by (The Symbol), that will change anybody's impression of this artist. He's still horny. Still adventurous. He can't escape his sonic signatures, which derive not only from his Jekyll-and-Hyde voice and its gymnastic falsetto but also from his rhythmic exactitude, ability to imply different harmonies and rare gift for insinuating melody. Nobody builds a vamp the way he does. No other guitar crackles with that dry, tart tang.
In the past, as he balanced these elements with the agility of a master orchestrator, Prince never left his imagination behind. He recognized that the interpretation had to sell the goods: He could give the raunchiest idea a sense of righteous grandeur and make a high-minded spiritual quest sound like an illicit affair. Not this time. Come features the most blatant soft-porn pillow talk Prince has ever released. At one point the lazy pulse of the title track becomes a forum for Prince to discourse on his (surprisingly ordinary) oral-sex techniques, and the closing "Orgasm" comes off as a you-are-there live remote recording of a sexual encounter.
Following a pattern established albums ago, Prince all but abandons the convoluted spiritual concerns he voiced on "7" and other tracks from "(The Symbol)" (1992). He's back to earth — talking Slylike and direct about "Race," moaning about being done wrong in the taut gospel ballad "Dark," returning to the relatively innocent seduction strategies of "Soft and Wet" on the blazing, funky chant "Pheromone."
But that stuff always was easy for Prince. Indeed, portions of Come, including "Space" and "Loose!," exhibit so little creativity, you wonder whether they were born during studio catnaps. Ever since "Alphabet St.," his challenge has been to broaden the music and allow it to address real issues, to move away from the cartoon image that dogged him after Purple Rain and Under the Cherry Moon.It's possible to interpret the gospel-tinged "The Sacrifice of Victor," from "(The Symbol)," as part of that campaign — an account of Prince's childhood that was, for an artist who is obsessively secretive, a major step.
With the graphically violent "Papa," which chronicles the disciplining of a 4-year-old, Prince elaborates on the hints in "Victor" that he has been abused. "Papa" probably won't make the box set, but its coda is a fiery eruption worthy of the subject matter, and its candor is clear evidence that Prince wishes to be less restrained.
The same sense of forthright introspection marks the sauntering strut "Letitgo," which many will read as an apologia for the excesses of the Prince era. In a regretful tone, it offers a past-tense acknowledgement that Prince, that notorious workaholic, wasn't always the most pleasant creature. An indictment of his self-absorption, the song suggests that whatever comes next will represent a change in attitude: "Lover here, lover there/Who cried, who cared/Foolish pride/Never was a good seat at any of this man's shows/Until now, all I wanted 2 do was/Do do do what I do.... But now I've got 2 let it go."
That admonishment aside, Come documents Prince at a surprisingly mediocre point — still able to pop out thumping, genuinely new grooves but unwilling to leave them alone, cluttering them with banal lyrics and overwritten horn parts and missing wildly with indulgent experiments like "Solo," one adventure in reverb best left in the vault.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I always find it odd when folks here are dismissive regarding critical criticism regarding Prince's new work with the Lady Gaga, JT, Beyonce retort. At his peak Prince was never compared to his contemporary pop-tarts on the charts, Critics and fans alike had always compared him to icons like The Beatles, The Stones, George Clinton, James Brown, Curtis Mayfeild, Marvin Gaye, David Bowie atc. because his work had always been highly anticipated and respected he had always garnered intense critical criticism and comparison. Yes a lot of will give him a pass now because of the degenerative effects of life, but please, STFU with the lame lowering of the lambada pole of expectations or critical thought to JT and Beyonce levels.
[Edited 7/12/10 23:33pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Hey Obama, how's that oil spill clean up going? Or that unemployment extension. Or that universal health care? <3
Anyway, Lady Gaga was just an example. Please someone tell me what artists and what albums from 2010 are so much better, or show a fresh new direction in music? I'm begging you, please give me something! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Damn, Prince has a lot of 2 star, 4 out of 10, bad albums.
On the back of the CD booklet is a disclaimer by the Artist Formerly Known as Prince: "Originally intended 4 private use only, this compilation serves as the last original material recorded by (The Symbol) 4 Warner Brothers Records." His ongoing war of protest and whining against his record label is also reflected in the photos adorning the pages of the Chaos and Disorder booklet: a syringe with a dollar bill rolled up inside, a toilet with a heart floating in the water, and the master-tape vault inside Paisley Park Studios, framed by gold records. Before you hear a single note, you're prepped for a halfhearted transaction from a self-pitying celebrity.
The whole album — its vibe, purpose and effect — is summarized in the self-aggrandizing "I Rock, Therefore I Am." Elements from the proverbial kitchen sink — blaring horns, funky, stuttering drums, police sirens, rap-cum-reggae-style toasting — bracket defiant lyrics that flash hints of social commentary to mask what is essentially (The Symbol)'s taunting of his record company. The lyrics gracelessly confuse the personal with the political.
Chaos and Disorder is distinguished by its confusion; even the title admits that the album's fractured parts never resolve into a thematic whole. At its best, the record sounds like a collection of polished demos. More often, though, it seems like the work of a Prince impersonator — someone who has closely studied the star's moves and mannerisms but has nothing new or substantial of his own to say. It's a drag act that becomes a drag real quickly.
(The Symbol) sings the delicate "Dinner With Delores" in a high register, his lead vocals backed by a breezy, softly cooed chorus. Yet the result is still a less attractive twin of Sign o' the Times' "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker." The title track has a searing organ, Rosie Gaines' fiery backing vocals and wild drumming that suits (The Symbol)'s manic blasts of lead guitar. It's wildly energetic — but also completely generic.
Whether he's just distracted by his record-company battles or has truly shot his wad, it's been a while since (The Symbol) has really had anything important to say in his music. It doesn't matter what the Artist Formerly Known as Prince calls himself. Chaos and Disorder is the sound of the man repeating himself badly.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Exactly. But if you sample what a bulk of people on this board listen to, or dare wade into the other music section, then it's not so surprising that pap like Planet Earth or 20ten might sound like something of a revelation to some people.
And NeoGeo24bit, I don't normally like to point these things out, but I was kidding about footnoting the RS article. I'm not exactly sure what you want me to do with a RS review of Come in a 20ten thread, but we're never going to find out because I'm not about to read it. No hard feelings. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
First, let's get that patented "LOL" out of the way...
Secondly, you have officially brought into your own Org-bad-guy hype, Wall...Do you actually believe that my two-fisted reaction to you is cloaked in some juvenile fammy worship of Prince? For fucks sake...
U r the other extreme Wall....You are no different than the folks on this board who claim that P has never produced a horrific musical offense in his entire career and blow up at the mere mention of such a revelation...
Your Debbie Downer, Cool-Kid persona is transparent...I respect the fact your posts are vastly articulate and at times quite knowledgeable....But your omnipresent attacks on everything Prince does from the time he brushes his teeth to when he takes a purple dump has become as telegraphed as FOX news blaming Obama for the American oil disaster...
I have rarely exhibited hostile reactions to posters on this board in this manner and if I offended anyone I apologize...
But you sir are a sick man who needs some serious therapy...For someone you believe to be the biggest artistic punchlines in popular music, I find your obsession with Prince puzzling...
Your enablers may find you cute....But there's nothing cute about a broken record playing the same ol' line....
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Murph,
Yeah, I do get the sense you're a card carrying fam member. But I still read a majority of your posts regardless.
Signed, Debbie Downer
No hard feelings. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince is still relevant enough to have "fans" who claim they've been done with him since 1995 still lurking around 15 years after the fact. There are lots of new and underground artist who are influenced by Prince. J'Davey openly admit their respect for him and his talent. Relevance is a concept that's individual as a fingerprint. I find Prince very relevant but you do not. 2 opinions about the same individual and it will vary the more people you ask. The orgers who question Prince's relevance seem to need him to be in a certain position/status in the music industry to justify their own continued appreciation of his music. When  go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all  up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Man, logical fallacies annoy me. For the last time, people, Wall isn't claiming Prince is not a relevant figure. His claim is that he has not been relevant for a long time. Get that? As in Prince could have stopped writing music for the last many years and it would not have mattered to anyone outside his fanbase. The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Exactly. Let me spoon feed, since everyone here turns into a drooling fam as soon as a criticism of Prince is put up: Prince is by far one of the most important acts in the history of pop and if anyone making contemporary pop, rap, soul, dubstep, etc. isn't familiar with his back catalog, I imagine their music is lacking. But if anyone is just starting to put three chords together with dreams of headlining at the o2 someday, I pray to god they aren't listening to drivel like 20ten. It's not going to take you any further than any other fleeting trend. Which, come to think of it, might very well land them in front of the herds of the o2 in a few years regardless.
No hard feelings. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
People are definitely being too hard on you. "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Fair enough, but still, the guy has created these classics and gets tons of respect from most people with any knowledge in pop music. At the Berlin show, half of the German music scene (including current acts such as Silbermond) were there, and some people (musicians themselves) we told we were at the Prince concert said they wished they had been there as well, and that Prince was one of the most important living musicians in pop. O.k., he hasn't acheived this status with, let's say, "The 1 u wanna c" but moreso with "Purple Rain", but people who go to a Stones gig nowadays will also do that for "Angie" rather than a recent song from "A bigger bang".
So what's the point here? Popular music is a form of music directed at young people, and consequently, most of the songs of any giant pop act which made them famous has probably been created in their 20s or early 30s.
Prince also isn't seen as relevant for many albums which are regarded as masterpieces around here. The general public probably doesn't even know about "Come", "TGE", "The Truth" or "ONA piano".
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I could say the same thing for any artist or band that is deemed "relevant" today. It only matters to their fanbase. When you're deemed relevant (by whom, exactly?), what you do only really matters to your fanbase. So, this point is also moot. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Please tell me Wall... tell me those albums and artists that are so great? You're wonderful at spewing negative reviews with every new release (which you don't really believe anyway), but you're absolute a$$ at providing any examples to back up any of your made up beliefs.
Please tell me some great albums and artists in 2010 that are trend setting, fresh, and break new ground and I'll go buy their albums immediately! Show me which music blows 20TEN or Lotusflow3r away. Please! Please! Please! [Edited 7/13/10 3:10am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Answer my question... what do you listen to that's so great, that makes the Planet Earth album "pap"? I really want to know... because like I mentioned before... whenever a professional reviewer slams a Prince album, in the next album review on the following page they praise some some other band or artist, say Maxwell (back when RS reviewed Newpower Soul), as "outdoing Prince." Fair enough. But then five years later, that some dude is gone, irrelevant, banished, and here's Prince with another album, that's also "terrible." I just find that hilarious. But then again, I am smarter than most people, including you, so it doesn't surprise me that much.
Please give me that list of incredible, fresh, relevant music in 2010! Better start looking up some music that people are listening to so you can compile your "list".
<3 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
After listening to the album several times, I'm satisfied with it, though not overwhelmed with excitement. There's nothing particularly deep or innovative here, but I don't necessarily need it to be. As a generally upbeat, fun, summer album, it serves it's purpose, and I think he did a better job at attempting to recapture his classic sound here than on MPLSound. There's the funky cuts that I was craving, but was beginning to think he couldn't do anymore, some nicely-produced ballads, and the harder-hitting hidden track to finish it off. My one complaint, and it's a recurrent one when it comes to his more recent work, is the lack of a memorable melody and/or a hook on some songs. JMO.
Favorites: Lavaux, Sticky Like Glue, Sea Of Everything Least Favorites: Everybody Loves Me, Walk In Sand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
