muleFunk said:

TheRIP said:

It's easy to slander someone this way. Can you prove he was a "racist bastard."

Go back to when he was the Governor of California and passed strict gun legislation when the Black Panther Party started showing up packing on the streets of Oakland to stop police brutality.

The joker coined the phrase "Welfare queens" as code speak for Black women in the projects at a time when the vast majority of welfare recipients were White.

It was also at this time that the Atlanta Child Murders were going on and he pressed the FBI to get "someone" before the lid blew in Atlanta. The Feds had knowledge that the crazy wing of the Klan had started killing Black kids to ignite a Race War which was also some of another famous Californian named Manson was trying to do in the 1960s.

We won't even discuss the appearance of AIDS( which he called God's judgement) and Cocaine and Crack on the streets of inner city America during his watch.

Reagan made racism cool and acceptable in America.

AIDS wasn't a racism issue, tho. So if we're going to talk about his stance on AIDS then we'll have to talk about the plight of homosexuals and I don't think this thread really can support that at the moment.

muleFunk said:

TheRIP said:

It's easy to slander someone this way. Can you prove he was a "racist bastard."

Go back to when he was the Governor of California and passed strict gun legislation when the Black Panther Party started showing up packing on the streets of Oakland to stop police brutality.

The joker coined the phrase "Welfare queens" as code speak for Black women in the projects at a time when the vast majority of welfare recipients were White.

It was also at this time that the Atlanta Child Murders were going on and he pressed the FBI to get "someone" before the lid blew in Atlanta. The Feds had knowledge that the crazy wing of the Klan had started killing Black kids to ignite a Race War which was also some of another famous Californian named Manson was trying to do in the 1960s.

We won't even discuss the appearance of AIDS( which he called God's judgement) and Cocaine and Crack on the streets of inner city America during his watch.

Reagan made racism cool and acceptable in America.

Excellent points mulefunk, not to mention the drugs he allowed to flow through this country under his watch. I found your points about Reagan interesting, and not far from the truth. Perhaps theRIP needs to watch the documentary "American Drug War: the last White Hope" to learn more about Reagan at the time of his reign. Watch at the 45:26 mark, as this is a 2 hour video. Very informative and interesting documentary.

l

Spinlight said:

muleFunk said:

Go back to when he was the Governor of California and passed strict gun legislation when the Black Panther Party started showing up packing on the streets of Oakland to stop police brutality.

The joker coined the phrase "Welfare queens" as code speak for Black women in the projects at a time when the vast majority of welfare recipients were White.

It was also at this time that the Atlanta Child Murders were going on and he pressed the FBI to get "someone" before the lid blew in Atlanta. The Feds had knowledge that the crazy wing of the Klan had started killing Black kids to ignite a Race War which was also some of another famous Californian named Manson was trying to do in the 1960s.

We won't even discuss the appearance of AIDS( which he called God's judgement) and Cocaine and Crack on the streets of inner city America during his watch.

Reagan made racism cool and acceptable in America.

AIDS wasn't a racism issue, tho. So if we're going to talk about his stance on AIDS then we'll have to talk about the plight of homosexuals and I don't think this thread really can support that at the moment.

True but it is an "ism" issue that I classify in with the bastards policies.

People of all creeds and colors suffered and continue to suffer from that fucker.

Hate is too small a word to use for Reagan.

God forgive me.

2elijah said:

muleFunk said:

Go back to when he was the Governor of California and passed strict gun legislation when the Black Panther Party started showing up packing on the streets of Oakland to stop police brutality.

The joker coined the phrase "Welfare queens" as code speak for Black women in the projects at a time when the vast majority of welfare recipients were White.

It was also at this time that the Atlanta Child Murders were going on and he pressed the FBI to get "someone" before the lid blew in Atlanta. The Feds had knowledge that the crazy wing of the Klan had started killing Black kids to ignite a Race War which was also some of another famous Californian named Manson was trying to do in the 1960s.

We won't even discuss the appearance of AIDS( which he called God's judgement) and Cocaine and Crack on the streets of inner city America during his watch.

Reagan made racism cool and acceptable in America.

Excellent points mulefunk, not to mention the drugs he allowed to flow through this country under his watch. I found your points about Reagan interesting, and not far from the truth. Perhaps theRIP needs to watch the documentary "American Drug War: the last White Hope" to learn more about Reagan at the time of his reign. Watch at the 45:26 mark, as this is a 2 hour video. Very informative and interesting documentary.

l

Yes I have seen that video but a better video "if" you can find it is called All Power To the People:The Black Panther Party and Beyond by Lee Lu Lee.

Another great video "if" you can find it is Bastards of The Party by Bone of APG.

This drug thing was told to me back in the late 1980s by the NOI, I did not believe them at the time but over the years everything that those brothers told me has been the truth. Another well hidden fact is that the NeoNazis and hard core Klans are behind a lot on intra-country drug smuggling and they were much involved with supplying the gangs these high powered military weapons that they use.

muleFunk said:

2elijah said:

Excellent points mulefunk, not to mention the drugs he allowed to flow through this country under his watch. I found your points about Reagan interesting, and not far from the truth. Perhaps theRIP needs to watch the documentary "American Drug War: the last White Hope" to learn more about Reagan at the time of his reign. Watch at the 45:26 mark, as this is a 2 hour video. Very informative and interesting documentary.

l

Yes I have seen that video but a better video "if" you can find it is called All Power To the People:The Black Panther Party and Beyond by Lee Lu Lee.

Another great video "if" you can find it is Bastards of The Party by Bone of APG.

This drug thing was told to me back in the late 1980s by the NOI, I did not believe them at the time but over the years everything that those brothers told me has been the truth. Another well hidden fact is that the NeoNazis and hard core Klans are behind a lot on intra-country drug smuggling and they were much involved with supplying the gangs these high powered military weapons that they use.

Wow (bolded part) I can certainly believe that. Thanks for the info. I guess I have some homework to do.

muleFunk said:

Spinlight said:

AIDS wasn't a racism issue, tho. So if we're going to talk about his stance on AIDS then we'll have to talk about the plight of homosexuals and I don't think this thread really can support that at the moment.

True but it is an "ism" issue that I classify in with the bastards policies.

People of all creeds and colors suffered and continue to suffer from that fucker.

Hate is too small a word to use for Reagan.

God forgive me.

lol, I hear you. I know a lot of people are hating on this thread, but it's really awesome what topics we've been delving into. Prince IS a black man. It's important, in my mind, to discuss these topics. It's interesting, too.

If we wanted to make a thread saying "Why doesn't Prince have more gay people in his band?" I promise I wouldn't strut up in there with indignation and act like no one else could ever relate or understand, etc.

TheRIP said:

ThreadBare said:

Some observations:

1) A lot of times, a band's lineup depends on the type of gig at the moment. If you have a big performer with a core of musicians at his/her disposal, expect to see the lineup change depending on the nature of the gig. Sometimes you get the call, sometimes you don't. That's the biz.

2) The older a star gets, the less interested he is in doing new things. Consider Prince avante-garde if you want. But at his soul, he has some fairly concrete musical concepts that represent home base for him. He's not going to be changing up nearly as much as he did heading into the mid-1990s. So, to return briefly to my first point, he's going to hit up Mr. Hayes for a gig with a lot of soul organ needs, as opposed to Renato (whom he'd best call if some killer jazz piano is in order for the gig). Likewise, power-trio blues will find Bland & Sonny doing their thing. Jazz set, you'll probably see Blackwell & the ever-lovely Rhonda holding it down.

At this point, it's not about proving a point. You'll find white musicans and singers like Candy or Elisa popping in every now and then. It's about Prince feeling comfortable with folks whose talents, strengths and ranges he knows really well by now.

3) Some of the funkiest people I've played with or have seen play have been white. Some of the people I'd expect to be able to kill blues/soul/funk/gospel/jazz because they're black and from some hallowed musical town have let me down time and time again. It's all about a particular cat using his/her particular gift in the way God blessed them to. All other stuff is immaterial.

blowhard edit.

[Edited 7/2/10 3:07am]

I'd be interested to one day see white guys on bass and guitar. In all of his years, he's never tried that.

It'd be cool to see P with Pino P. or John Patitucci on bass, maybe Tim Reynolds or Michael Ripoll on guitar sitting in with some regularity.

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

Someone had to give Prince lessons.

bring it, haters!

ThreadBare said:

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

Someone had to give Prince lessons.

bring it, haters!

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

We've already covered that, though.

The majority of the Revolution was white because Prince made a business decision. He put white people there to market himself.

Way to shit on his white fanbase. Stop being so fucking smug.

ThreadBare said:

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

Someone had to give Prince lessons.

bring it, haters!

You know what cracks me up? That you punk ass motherfuckers can sit there and shit talk people with no recourse behind a computer screen about hot topic issues. You give no respect to the artist, no respect to his fans, and no respect to the medium with which you converse.

It's really funny when you crack on white fans, but god forbid a white fan make a thread wondering about Prince's band members. Race is a HUGE topic for Prince, so much so that he refers to it in a gazillion songs and has a song called "Race".

Yet you sit here and can crack passive aggressive racist jokes because why? Because old ass white men made rules that didn't even affect you, they affected your parents? You live in 2010, yes? You are a contemporary and vibrant person, yes?

Then perhaps you ought to strive to not have blind cynicism and racism towards people you presume to be white on this site. It's sickening that you sit there with your air of intelligence - like you know what the hell Prince was/is/could be thinking. You don't. You have no remote clue. And that's what this thread is for. Not to harbor your latent issues with being called names on the street.

No one in this thread has caused you problems, nor has anyone in this thread made wide-sweeping generalizations about any kind of people. What was a civil and interesting thread is quickly devolving into a bitchy passive aggressive food fight. I assure you that I won't even hate on you for your out of bounds hatred towards people like me (you presume). But I do feel bad for you because you will always be plagued with a sense of indignation that can't wash off, can't perm off, can't relax off, and can't photoshop off. Get over yourself.

Spinlight said:

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

We've already covered that, though.

The majority of the Revolution was white because Prince made a business decision. He put white people there to market himself.

Way to shit on his white fanbase. Stop being so fucking smug.

You missed my point.

The point of the matter is I didn't care then and I don't care now.

I honestly believe this thread is bait to go along with the Ebony thread and the Jet thread.

Vendetta1 said:

Spinlight said:

We've already covered that, though.

The majority of the Revolution was white because Prince made a business decision. He put white people there to market himself.

Way to shit on his white fanbase. Stop being so fucking smug.

You missed my point.

The point of the matter is I didn't care then and I don't care now.

I honestly believe this thread is bait to go along with the Ebony thread and the Jet thread.

I don't give a shit about the OP. I entered this thread to have an intelligent discussion and I did have one and would continue to have one with 1725. However, we get comments from the racist peanut gallery who come up in here making cracks on white people. What the fuck?

I mean, seriously. If we can't even have a remotely civil conversation without some random ass hooliganism, how the hell do you think shit will ever change? And if you don't think shit will change, why are you here? To suffer endlessly? Cooperate with people who are cooperative. I have nothing. NOTHING. nothing of a remote ghost of an idea of a glimmer of a shred of racism in me. But I am extremely interested in sociology and the history of the united states. I am also a huge Prince fan and have stated before that without his influence on my life, I don't even know... He had a huge part in me being "come one, come all".

You, and people who make similar smug comments, do not help things for either side, man.

Spinlight said:

ThreadBare said:

Someone had to give Prince lessons.

bring it, haters!

You know what cracks me up? That you punk ass motherfuckers can sit there and shit talk people with no recourse behind a computer screen about hot topic issues. You give no respect to the artist, no respect to his fans, and no respect to the medium with which you converse.

It's really funny when you crack on white fans, but god forbid a white fan make a thread wondering about Prince's band members. Race is a HUGE topic for Prince, so much so that he refers to it in a gazillion songs and has a song called "Race".

Yet you sit here and can crack passive aggressive racist jokes because why? Because old ass white men made rules that didn't even affect you, they affected your parents? You live in 2010, yes? You are a contemporary and vibrant person, yes?

Then perhaps you ought to strive to not have blind cynicism and racism towards people you presume to be white on this site. It's sickening that you sit there with your air of intelligence - like you know what the hell Prince was/is/could be thinking. You don't. You have no remote clue. And that's what this thread is for. Not to harbor your latent issues with being called names on the street.

No one in this thread has caused you problems, nor has anyone in this thread made wide-sweeping generalizations about any kind of people. What was a civil and interesting thread is quickly devolving into a bitchy passive aggressive food fight. I assure you that I won't even hate on you for your out of bounds hatred towards people like me (you presume). But I do feel bad for you because you will always be plagued with a sense of indignation that can't wash off, can't perm off, can't relax off, and can't photoshop off. Get over yourself.

Whoaa... Hang on, Spin. I meant you no offense, bruh.

You're relatively new to these parts, I gather. I'm one of the biggest boosters of Wendy & Lisa on this board. I meant what I said about them giving Prince lessons. Hence the jab at the haters.

If you scroll up, you might see the serious post I made about some white cats I'd like to see be in Prince's band.

I don't know what foolishness may have transpired on this thread before I made that crack, but if you mistake every post that you don't like on the Org as a swipe at you, you'd better keep some tissues by your monitor.

When posts -- even those meant to rile you (which mine wasn't) -- cause you to snap like you just did, it's time to invest in a frisbee and go outdoors.

It's not that deep, amigo.

Really.

Spinlight said:

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

We've already covered that, though.

The majority of the Revolution was white because Prince made a business decision. He put white people there to market himself.

Way to shit on his white fanbase. Stop being so fucking smug.

Not really. Motown did it with their artists, like with the Supremes and the Temptations, when they wanted them to crossover, once they achieved a large, black following. I also remember when "PinK' who was mostly into rap/hip-hop, in the early part of her career, then crossing back over, to sing more rock/pop songs to target white consumers. once she was able to pull in some black fans. When Beyonce went solo, she targetted a crossover market. Then she crossed back over, and is now singing less hip/hop for sometime. It's about business, making money iin the industry. Record execs have done this with many of their artists.

You find this happening in the movies as well, they'll throw in one black actor as a sidekick, in a movie, mainly consisting of white actors/actresses, to pull in some non-white customers.

During Purple Rain, the producers/directors wanted to pull in both black and white fans. They intentionally made the parents' characters in Purple Rain, biracial to pull in white and black fans. even though they knew Prince was black, but they pimped his good looks/sex/race to the fans, and mentally seduced them with their product (Prince's image), to rake in the money. His image drew in the straight, gay, black, white, and other fans, while keeping many fans from all those groups, "confused" for years about his race/sexuality. A mixed audience to the Purple Rain producers/directors, was about how much money they could make off his fans, and Prince's image, and they succeeded in doing so.

It's all a game in these industries, and often times, the record execs and those in the industry, use these tactics/games to draw in as many fans/customers as they can. They see dollar signs, and that is their main concern. How much they could sell their product, especially when they're promoting young and hungry artists. They used Prince's image in many ways, racially/sexually, to promote his image, and made money off of it, while he himself, was trying to obtain a large fan base. When you're a young artist, often times, many things can blind you when you're first starting out, and not paying full attention. It is obvious, later in his life, as Prince grew older, that he figured out what the games in the music industry was all about, and that could be one of the reasons he has a different outlook on that industry today. Especially what he said in the interview in Ebony magazine.

It isn't about being politically correct in those businesses, it's about business/money, and how much they can make off artists they promote.

[Edited 7/2/10 19:14pm]

ThreadBare said:

Spinlight said:

You know what cracks me up? That you punk ass motherfuckers can sit there and shit talk people with no recourse behind a computer screen about hot topic issues. You give no respect to the artist, no respect to his fans, and no respect to the medium with which you converse.

It's really funny when you crack on white fans, but god forbid a white fan make a thread wondering about Prince's band members. Race is a HUGE topic for Prince, so much so that he refers to it in a gazillion songs and has a song called "Race".

Yet you sit here and can crack passive aggressive racist jokes because why? Because old ass white men made rules that didn't even affect you, they affected your parents? You live in 2010, yes? You are a contemporary and vibrant person, yes?

Then perhaps you ought to strive to not have blind cynicism and racism towards people you presume to be white on this site. It's sickening that you sit there with your air of intelligence - like you know what the hell Prince was/is/could be thinking. You don't. You have no remote clue. And that's what this thread is for. Not to harbor your latent issues with being called names on the street.

No one in this thread has caused you problems, nor has anyone in this thread made wide-sweeping generalizations about any kind of people. What was a civil and interesting thread is quickly devolving into a bitchy passive aggressive food fight. I assure you that I won't even hate on you for your out of bounds hatred towards people like me (you presume). But I do feel bad for you because you will always be plagued with a sense of indignation that can't wash off, can't perm off, can't relax off, and can't photoshop off. Get over yourself.

Whoaa... Hang on, Spin. I meant you no offense, bruh.

You're relatively new to these parts, I gather. I'm one of the biggest boosters of Wendy & Lisa on this board. I meant what I said about them giving Prince lessons. Hence the jab at the haters.

If you scroll up, you might see the serious post I made about some white cats I'd like to see be in Prince's band.

I don't know what foolishness may have transpired on this thread before I made that crack, but if you mistake every post that you don't like on the Org as a swipe at you, you'd better keep some tissues by your monitor.

When posts -- even those meant to rile you (which mine wasn't) -- cause you to snap like you just did, it's time to invest in a frisbee and go outdoors.

It's not that deep, amigo.

Really.

Sorry. I'm not new to P.org (been here for about 6 years and AMP before then). This thread is just percolating at the moment and I really don't like having to remain civil when people are cracking jokes on white fans. It's entirely counterproductive. I apologize if I lumped you in with the wrong category though.

Spinlight said:

Vendetta1 said:

You missed my point.

The point of the matter is I didn't care then and I don't care now.

I honestly believe this thread is bait to go along with the Ebony thread and the Jet thread.

I don't give a shit about the OP. I entered this thread to have an intelligent discussion and I did have one and would continue to have one with 1725. However, we get comments from the racist peanut gallery who come up in here making cracks on white people. What the fuck?

I mean, seriously. If we can't even have a remotely civil conversation without some random ass hooliganism, how the hell do you think shit will ever change? And if you don't think shit will change, why are you here? To suffer endlessly? Cooperate with people who are cooperative. I have nothing. NOTHING. nothing of a remote ghost of an idea of a glimmer of a shred of racism in me. But I am extremely interested in sociology and the history of the united states. I am also a huge Prince fan and have stated before that without his influence on my life, I don't even know... He had a huge part in me being "come one, come all".

You, and people who make similar smug comments, do not help things for either side, man.

I don't think what i said was smug and you are continuing to misconstrue what I am saying.I am not going to defend myself against any charges of racism.

i am glad you were able to take something positive away from this thread because I believe it was started with bad intentions.

Spinlight said:

Vendetta1 said:

imagine the uproar if someone black had posted a thread asking why the majority of the revolution was white.

We've already covered that, though.

The majority of the Revolution was white because Prince made a business decision. He put white people there to market himself.

Way to shit on his white fanbase. Stop being so fucking smug.

I don't think it happened that way, Prince started out with 3 (white) Fink-Jewish Rivkin-Jewish Chapman then Coleman

and 3 (black) Cymone(light complexioned)-Brownmark Prince(light complexioned) Dez

and that was the case up till 1983, Dez left the band and Wendy was in the camp via Lisa, Prince heard her playing, asked could she play Controversy she did, they started jamming together and she was in the band, I don't think it had anything to do with race. If anything the fact that they were lesbian might be what he liked and wanted to add to the diversity.

TheRIP said:

skywalker said:

It's like this:

Some of Prince's funkiest moments came with The Revolution. Arguably, the hardest he has rocked has been just him, Michael B. and Sonny T.

Music: If you can play, you can play and it doesn't matter the color of your skin.

It is sad to me that, after all these years, some Prince/music fans don't get it.

[Edited 6/30/10 7:15am]

We all know skin color doesn't matter. But does Prince know that?

just a year ago in an interview when the women(white) called him a black artist/musician, he asked her "Am I?" and then put his hand/arm out next to hers. She commented that he was actually lighter/whiter than she was

OldFriends4Sale said:

TheRIP said:

We all know skin color doesn't matter. But does Prince know that?

just a year ago in an interview when the women(white) called him a black artist/musician, he asked her "Am I?" and then put his hand/arm out next to hers. She commented that he was actually lighter/whiter than she was

I can't believe people took that line to heart from that interview. Have you ever seen black people say that to one another among other things, when joking around about their complexions and comparing their complexions to one another? It sounds to me in that interview, like Prince was pulling that woman's leg, and I don't mean in a sexual way. I know plenty of tanned white people, and if a light-skinned black person put their arms next to one of them, they may just come close in complexion. Doesn't mean that comparison changes a person's race though.

Point is, in the Ebony issue, the man clearly included himself as part of the black community, without a doubt. I guess it is what it is.

[Edited 7/2/10 22:11pm]

Spinlight said:

TheRIP said:

I'm certainly endorsing affirmative action as far as Princes band goes, but I'm curious as to why Prince went from having extremely racially diverse bands (Revolution, Lovesexy) to very little diversity. I know this is nothing new, being that he's only had one one white dude, going as far back as 1990, but I wonder why this is. Is it simply because he prefers a black band or because there aren't many white musicians who play his style of music?

This is the wrong place for you to bring this topic, lmao.

Whoopi said it best: You in danger, girl.

That's funny. I think an honest question is an honest question. The only jacked up thing about it is that I don't hear any white folks asking about why other prominent white artists don't have any black people in their bands. Shoot Guns N' Roses had Slash working the stage with a damned big azz hat on, and his hair covering his face like "Cousin It". Couldn't even tell he was a person of color for some time. It's like they wanted it to be some sort of a secret or something in my opinion.

Spinlight said:

I think Prince assumes they are color-driven because he didn't really ever expand into those genres much with his white bandmembers. I think Fink and Tommy B are the only mainstays who got to play Afro-centric music styles with him to any real degree (barring the James Brown brand of chicken grease/funk he displayed on the PR tour). But take the SOTT version of "If I Was Your Girlfriend"... I don't think Prince ever thought the Revolution would hit notes like that. There's been comments before about the fact that the Revolution, even towards the end of its steam, was not a very improvisational band and their sound was a lot less organic than of the bands that came after them.

But I don't think it had to do with their race. I do, however, think Prince believed it did. It's the same thing as when Miles Davis made the comments about white musicians always being off the beat. Kind of insulting, but I think that's a pretty wide-spread belief.

It was brought up earlier in the thread by someone in agreement, but I cannot stand the lyric: "You never woulda bought my coffee if I had never served you cream." I think it's not only patently untrue, but it's naive of Prince (and I think Prince, while gifted and intelligent, is pretty naive on racial affairs). He had a solid career with afro-centric albums from For You to Controversy. It wasn't until 1999 that he actually pushed the white people in his band to the fore (even moreso during PR) and his popularity shot way up, but he had also changed his music style drastically.

Would he be as popular as he is today had he kept doing albums like Controversy and maybe then transitioned into other playstyles he seemed more comfortable with like stuff off SOTT or Diamonds and Pearls? I don't know. I know there are black musicians out there who see great, huge, amazing success while still doing afro-centric music. And by the way, I don't think many people at all would be buying his coffee if his coffee tasted like LotusFlower/MPLS Sound, the NPGMC stuff, NewPower Soul, etc regardless of how much cream he dumps into it.

Spinlight, thanks for the points supporting Reagan being a racist. I would only add that it is under Reagan when the federal and state governments, especially southern states, began the onslaught of dramatically cutting funding to inner city schools, which are mostly African American, under the guise of punishment for failing and then sending that money to suburban systems and even justifying using public funds for charter and private schools where less than ten percent of the African American population could gain access. This is especially problematic when those schools were failing primarily due to limited funding that created overcrowding, poor teacher to student ratios, and inept equipment. (Of course the high teen pregnancy rate and high number of single parent homes do not help the matter, but as Brave New World and other creative and critical works show, when people are denied or limited in their ability to achieve academic, financial, and political achievement and control, physical pleasure becomes an opiate for those deprived masses.)

Spinlight said: I think Prince assumes they are color-driven because he didn't really ever expand into those genres much with his white band members. I think Fink and Tommy B are the only mainstays who got to play Afro-centric music styles with him to any real degree (barring the James Brown brand of chicken grease/funk he displayed on the PR tour). But take the SOTT version of "If I Was Your Girlfriend"... I don't think Prince ever thought the Revolution would hit notes like that. There's been comments before about the fact that the Revolution, even towards the end of its steam, was not a very improvisational band and their sound was a lot less organic than of the bands that came after them.

Prince definitely had an agenda where race was concerned. Let’s look at three instances. One, in the documentary Prince: Unauthorized, according to Pepe Willie, the man who taught Prince how to write songs, there were a lot better drummers in Minneapolis than Bobby Z, including Prince’s cousin Chazz, but, to use Willie’s words, “Prince wanted a white drummer.” So the question must be raised, “Why was Prince so adamant about having a ‘white’ drummer even if there were better drummers?” The answer can come from Prince’s first manager, Owen Husney, who is quoted in The Lyrics of Prince saying, “Sometimes black artists think they can’t make the music or the art they want to make when they are seen as strictly black acts so they try to break free of what they see as limitations on their art. Sometimes it is strictly for money and prestige. With Prince it was a bit of both…While Prince believed in the messages of coming together and creating a multicultural utopia, he was also able to understand the financial value of multicultural, multi-gender appeal…Sly, Jimi, and Stevie were a bit more authentic in their beliefs and desires to create peace among the races. Thus, the inability to bring people together had more of an effect on the music of Sly and Jimi. Prince, on the other hand, was a bit more contrived. If his mission of bringing people together failed, he could be consoled by his record sales.” Finally, we know that in 1980 Prince lied about his race to three different magazines in three consecutive months, and he could not keep the lie straight. And why was he lying? Because he knew that a record like Dirty Mind had no chance of being played on black radio, and a black kid had no chance getting air play on white radio—not in 1980. So, it seems that we must keep in mind that when one is a professional artist, then the business is as influential on artistic decisions as the passion for art. So, it seems that Prince wanted white band members either because how they appealed to certain audiences or because of how they played. Even as late as 1985/6 Prince states that “Wendy makes me seem alright/normal in the eyes of some people.” Who are those people?

Now, I would not say that Prince’s strategies are naïve or even racist, per se. I would say that this is the strategy of an African American kid raised in a hometown smothered in whiteness. Minneapolis, for years, was the whitest place in America, next to maybe Utah. With an African American population of less than three percent, Prince was an African American kid trying to fashion a way to make music. And having had mostly white classmates and whites in the audience of his amateur gigs, he knew what they liked and what moved them, and he began to incorporate all of that into his act/shtick. So, when Prince says “You never woulda bought my coffee if I had never served you cream,” that must be heard/read as a double entendre (which is his most powerful lyrical technique) about race and entertainment. The cream is not just a reference to his blending of white and black culture. It is also a reference to any antics that an artist may use to get people’s attention, such as wearing bikini briefs and a raincoat, or simulating masturbation during a guitar solo, or wearing pants with the butt missing. Each act/antic is one part Prince being his free self and one part Prince knowing that these things will get people’s attention. In the VH1 interview with Chris Rock he even affirms this by saying, “Hey, it’s Rock-n-roll.” And even later when he desires to change his image or behavior to match his new spiritual ideology, he says on countless occasions, “You get the fans you deserve, not the fans you want,” which seems to me that, on some level, he is accepting responsibility for having so many fans who are angered by his ideological change or shift, especially as it relates to sex, sexuality, and profanity. So, I think that his use of diverse musicians was partly his desire to be different and create a different sound and partly his desire to get noticed. So Prince played us all. Even at a young age, he seemed to know that America is one uptight place about race and sex, and when you mix race and sex, watch out!

And the one point of yours that I’m desperately trying to avoid because it may be true is that, yes, Prince may have had the same stereotypical notions as most people by thinking that white musicians play one way and black musicians play another way. And let me say upfront that while I love the Revolution, I do think that it is mostly white fans who desire to have the Revolution to return, but I have no empirical way of proving that. So, with that in the open, I think that the Revolution was one hell of a band, but they do not seem to be nearly as improvisational as other, later bands, nor does it seem that they could handle the bluesy or jazzier stuff that Prince did later. (However, it most be noted that Madhouse was led by a white man.) Case in point, the SOTT film version of “It’s Gonna Be a Beautiful Night,” which is performed by the earliest lineup of New Power Soul, blows the doors off the album version, which is played by the Revolution. Now, that’s just one song/example, but even if Prince was developing these ideas with the Revolution, it seems that he thought that the Revolution would not have the ability to manifest/play his ideas to their full capacity. Remember, it is Wendy and Lisa who told of getting a phone call out the blue from Prince telling them that he was “heading in a different direction.” Now, that is a vague notion, “a different direction,” but whatever that direction was Prince seemed to think that Brownmark and Dr. Fink were the only two in the band who could help him achieve that new direction or sound because both were asked to remain, but only Fink did.

Additionally, what you say about people not buying Lotusflow3r/MPLS no matter how much cream he dumps into it is very funny even if I disagree. That is a good line. We must remember that it is difficult to contain this discussion just to race because his explicit lyrics and daring clothing also contributed to his popularity. One of the criticisms of Purple Rain by the few critics was that Purple Rain was just a smoke job of Prince trying to sanitize his image. I remember some reviewer writing, “Have we forgotten that this is the same guy who wrote about having sex with his sister?” And as someone on this site has asserted, Prince’s limiting his creativity and expression of sex and sexuality could be limiting his overall creativity—the notion that once he started thinking about or being overly conscious of the positivity of his work it had an adverse effect on his productivity. I don’t know if this is true or not, but one could argue that his choice of musicians may be more about having people with whom he feels comfortable or whom he believes can handle his new spiritual agenda rather than it being about their race. Maybe I think this because it has been reported or promoted more, but it seems that most African American musicians begin in the church and don’t have as much of a problem switching between spiritual and secular music. Soul/R&B is an amalgam of the sacred and the profane. As Ray Charles said: “The only difference between gospel and blues is they say ‘Lawd, Lawd” and we say “Baby, Baby.’” (Of course, if this is equally true of white musicians, please correct me as I’m sure someone will.) Again, I don’t know if that is the reason, but I just wanted to show that race is not necessarily the reason why he has used mostly African American musicians lately, unless we tie race to the concept of “shared culture or history”.

And for one final question, what if Prince’s choice to have mostly African American musicians is related to his desire to provide opportunities for African American musicians during a time when hip hop production makes it difficult for African Americans to get work as musicians? I am not saying that this is his reason; I’m just posing a hypothetical question. Two of the top DJs where I live were actually trained as drummers, but for their age group it is almost impossible for them to get work so they both became DJs. Now, I don’t know if this is why Prince has been choosing mostly African American musicians lately, but my question is: Could this be considered a racist act? Is it racist for a successful African American to provide opportunities exclusively for younger African Americans because he feels that they continue to be excluded from opportunities in that field? (And while I am asking this question in all seriousness, I want to be upfront that I don’t think that anyone should be told whom they can and can’t hire. As a Black Nationalist, I’ve never been a fan of affirmative action—though I do understand the logic of it—because I’ve always thought that the best course of action for African Americans is to create our own opportunities. Furthermore, I think that it is silly/foolish for African Americans to patronize companies that are not willing to hire them or employ them in positions of management. So if African Americans were more critical about with whom we spend our money, then there would be no need for government mandated affirmative action.)

Okay, so now I must go spend the entire weekend dedicated to my wife. She is pulling me from the computer as I type. I would continue to type, but as you know if Mama ain’t happy ain’t nobody in the house gone be happy. Later!

2elijah said:

TheRIP said:

That's basically what I'm getting at. It seems he used to really be into extreme diversity in all aspects of the band, as if it was specifically by design. That all changed around 1990 and I still wonder if something happened that year to make him switch gears so dramatically.

It just seems rather strange that since he did the Ebony issue, how all these questions are being raised regarding race. This is a man who has various musicians/artists from various, racial backgrounds in his band throughout his career;has dated outside his own race, and now suddenly he is being accused of being racial and gender discrimination. I thought one's ability to be a musician/artist wasn't based on their race or gender unless the rules changed.

God help us all if Prince finally decides to "get with" a sister that looks like a full-on sister. I think some folks on the org will lose their minds. Then they'll be threads "Why is Prince suddenly dating black women". LOL

Reel said:

Spinlight said:

This is the wrong place for you to bring this topic, lmao.

Whoopi said it best: You in danger, girl.

That's funny. I think an honest question is an honest question. The only jacked up thing about it is that I don't hear any white folks asking about why other prominent white artists don't have any black people in their bands. Shoot Guns N' Roses had Slash working the stage with a damned big azz hat on, and his hair covering his face like "Cousin It". Couldn't even tell he was a person of color for some time. It's like they wanted it to be some sort of a secret or something in my opinion.

Slash said that the G&R did not know he was Black for years.

That was on the HBO special Blacklist .

Reel said:

2elijah said:

It just seems rather strange that since he did the Ebony issue, how all these questions are being raised regarding race. This is a man who has various musicians/artists from various, racial backgrounds in his band throughout his career;has dated outside his own race, and now suddenly he is being accused of being racial and gender discrimination. I thought one's ability to be a musician/artist wasn't based on their race or gender unless the rules changed.

God help us all if Prince finally decides to "get with" a sister that looks like a full-on sister. I think some folks on the org will lose their minds. Then they'll be threads "Why is Prince suddenly dating black women". LOL

I just find some of the assumptions/accusations to be a bit ridiculous in this thread.

As far as who Prince chooses to date, that's really his personal/private choice/business, not something I think fans should concern themselves with outside of his music.

ThreadBare said:

Spinlight said:

You know what cracks me up? That you punk ass motherfuckers can sit there and shit talk people with no recourse behind a computer screen about hot topic issues. You give no respect to the artist, no respect to his fans, and no respect to the medium with which you converse.

It's really funny when you crack on white fans, but god forbid a white fan make a thread wondering about Prince's band members. Race is a HUGE topic for Prince, so much so that he refers to it in a gazillion songs and has a song called "Race".

Yet you sit here and can crack passive aggressive racist jokes because why? Because old ass white men made rules that didn't even affect you, they affected your parents? You live in 2010, yes? You are a contemporary and vibrant person, yes?

Then perhaps you ought to strive to not have blind cynicism and racism towards people you presume to be white on this site. It's sickening that you sit there with your air of intelligence - like you know what the hell Prince was/is/could be thinking. You don't. You have no remote clue. And that's what this thread is for. Not to harbor your latent issues with being called names on the street.

No one in this thread has caused you problems, nor has anyone in this thread made wide-sweeping generalizations about any kind of people. What was a civil and interesting thread is quickly devolving into a bitchy passive aggressive food fight. I assure you that I won't even hate on you for your out of bounds hatred towards people like me (you presume). But I do feel bad for you because you will always be plagued with a sense of indignation that can't wash off, can't perm off, can't relax off, and can't photoshop off. Get over yourself.

Whoaa... Hang on, Spin. I meant you no offense, bruh.

You're relatively new to these parts, I gather. I'm one of the biggest boosters of Wendy & Lisa on this board. I meant what I said about them giving Prince lessons. Hence the jab at the haters.

If you scroll up, you might see the serious post I made about some white cats I'd like to see be in Prince's band.

I don't know what foolishness may have transpired on this thread before I made that crack, but if you mistake every post that you don't like on the Org as a swipe at you, you'd better keep some tissues by your monitor.

When posts -- even those meant to rile you (which mine wasn't) -- cause you to snap like you just did, it's time to invest in a frisbee and go outdoors.

It's not that deep, amigo.

Really.

Word, I was going to go and grab my bullet proof vest. He's responding as if he was personally attacked. Talk about pent up racial frustrations....damned shame.

TheRIP said:

I think playing the race card against Reagan is just a tool that's used because he was as popular as he was.

Anyway, getting off topic.

He was never popular in my household, in my community, and with the vast majority of African Americans. Nixon has a higher favorable rating among African Americans than Reagan, and Nixon ran on the "Crime and Punishment" platform that was directly aimed at civil unrest/protests by African Americans.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

just a year ago in an interview when the women(white) called him a black artist/musician, he asked her "Am I?" and then put his hand/arm out next to hers. She commented that he was actually lighter/whiter than she was

I can't believe people took that line to heart from that interview. Have you ever seen black people say that to one another among other things, when joking around about their complexions and comparing their complexions to one another? It sounds to me in that interview, like Prince was pulling that woman's leg, and I don't mean in a sexual way. I know plenty of tanned white people, and if a light-skinned black person put their arms next to one of them, they may just come close in complexion. Doesn't mean that comparison changes a person's race though.

Point is, in the Ebony issue, the man clearly included himself as part of the black community, without a doubt. I guess it is what it is.

[Edited 7/2/10 22:11pm]

Prince takes his non-black fans on a ride so frequently, it's just sad. Because he gets them all riled up and confused about his identity. Folks on this board calling him "Tri-racial", and all sorts of crazy mess. I know that Prince now wants to rise above race and all. But he put that question about his race in the minds of his fans dating back to when he was in Purple Rain, and his mother was played by a white woman. So the white fans reaction to his race, is really Prince's fault....eventhough black people know better.

muleFunk said:

Reel said:

That's funny. I think an honest question is an honest question. The only jacked up thing about it is that I don't hear any white folks asking about why other prominent white artists don't have any black people in their bands. Shoot Guns N' Roses had Slash working the stage with a damned big azz hat on, and his hair covering his face like "Cousin It". Couldn't even tell he was a person of color for some time. It's like they wanted it to be some sort of a secret or something in my opinion.

Slash said that the G&R did not know he was Black for years.

That was on the HBO special Blacklist .

Wow! See I knew something was fishy. I was like...why the hell is that brother's face covered like that in all the damned videos. Perhaps "somebody" found out and wanted it to remain a secret.