Spinlight said:

Being a minority myself, I do understand the concept of wanting to be grounded closer to people who are Just Like You (saying this with tongue firmly in cheek). I always thought that part of Prince's message was about being universally appealing and not caring about color lines or politics such as that. as referring more to our subcultures of Black, European, etc.

Of course, it seems that we'll just agree to disagree, but as an African American writer (poetry and fiction), I've always been skeptical of the term "universality." As Langston Hughes asserted the notion of universality is often just code for whites demanding or African Americans trying to convince whites how like white they can be. It is an "urge toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible."

As someone who "came of age" from Dirty Mind to Sign O the Times, I love the Prince who champions individuality and multiculturalism. However, that brave but naive Prince did not see on the horizon a Ronald Reagan who could re-polarize America to a point where people buying music would be re-segregated into Grunge and Hip Hop. And though that is an over simplification, when one suffers institutional racism one understands that while one will continue to be an individual one is also having one's rights limited because of race, and, thus, it is normal for one to speak to that issue, often trying to build relationships with folks of like minds or who may suffer similar mistreatment to create solutions for that institutional racism. Additionally, as a child who was raised listening to classic African American music, it is only a natural course for him to return to and engage in that culture. So, when people use terms like pandering or faking or acting black to discuss what Prince is doing or has been doing, it speaks more to their under-estimation or complete ignoring of the fact that he is an African American. Literary scholar Henry Louis Gates spent twenty years promoting the concept of a "post racial" approach, often attacking African American writers for spending too much time on racism. I wonder how "post-racial" did Gates feel in the back of the police car. So, the dream of a paisley park, multicultural world was interrupted with the reality that racism still exists, and that any artist that suffers that racism or is sympathetic to that suffering will comment on it with one's art. The paisley park utopia is still open, but it seems that many no longer want to be citizens because Prince has supplemented his desire to be a hybrid of race and gender with is desire to understand or celebrate what it means to survive and thrive as an African person.

As for whether or not Prince has been producing quality music over the past ten to twenty years, again we can agree to disagree because I'm still grooving. I love The Rainbow Children, Musicology, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS. My love for it doesn't make it great music, but someone else's distain for it does not make it poorly crafted either.

As for your point about his comments about homosexuals, being aware of these comments but having not heard the actual words, I can only assert that I don't agree with discrimination against anyone. However, I do think that there is a difference between someone saying "I hate gay people and I think that they should be denied education and jobs, and they should be assaulted regularly" and someone saying that the religion they have chosen to follow sees homosexuality as a sin. Just because someone has this view does not mean that they desire to work to deny access to basic rights to someone because of one's sexual orientation. I think that adultery and fornication are sins (and I have fornicated myself--lots of times), but I don't think that people who fornicate should be treated unequally under the law.

Additionally, I never tell other people how to feel. If I don't want a white person telling me how I should feel about an issue of race, I have no right to tell someone else how they should feel when they perceive that they have been betrayed by someone whom they have supported for years. So, I will only say what I have been saying in another thread. When we understand that artists are just people, we cannot be surprised or disappointed when their art changes, either in quality, subject matter, or ideological stances. By that same token, if Prince said or wrote a song that asserted that white is right and black get back, I would stop listening to him, but I would not be disappointed or angry, per se, because I think that it is illogical to think that I will love the work of my favorite artist or be on the same page with him for an eternity. If I happen to spend the next twenty years loving Prince's productivity, then cool, but if we understand the subjective nature of art, including the varying aspects that combine to create art, such as age, race, class, level of education, religious beliefs, and interpersonal relationships, we would be less surprised, disappointed, and angered when our favorite artist no longer moves us or shifts his ideological positions on the things that are important to us.

Spinlight said:

1725topp said:

You seem to be very knowledgeable about Prince so I find it interesting that you do not know that from 1984 to about 2000 Prince was heavily criticized about his seeming preference for whiteness: sound, his hair and demeanor, and the women he dated. Now, I'll admit that if one was not a fan who existed mostly within the African American community and read books and magazines that catered to African American readership then one may not have known this. For instance, when Prince toured in 1996/7 and I was waiting in line to purchase a ticket with mostly white fans, and a white female said to me: "I work in an office with a lot of black people, and I told them that I was going to the Prince concert, and they were not excited or concerned at all." She then asked, "Why don't black people like Prince?" It was hot, and I wasn't in the mood for a prolonged discussion about race and art at that moment, so I just said, "I hope he plays an equal combination of old and new tunes."

It has only been recently since Prince's popularity has risen, again, in the black community en masse. I don't know why it has happened exactly though I do think it has something to do with many black writers and other black artists being more forthright about Prince being recognized as a treasure of the African American community along with his own seeming desire to reconnect with that audience. (I don't know is that is the reason for why he chooses his band members.) For example, people like Stephen Hill, an exec and major shot-caller at BET, and Tavis Smiley, regardless of how many feel about him, go to great lengths to celebrate him as a great “African American” icon.

So, Prince has spent years being criticized by members of the African American community for not being "black enough." As an African American I did understand the criticism, and as a Prince fan I respected his courage to be who he wanted to be regardless of how it made others feel. What I do find interesting (and I'm not saying this of the member who began the thread) is that as long as Prince was saying F-the world and was willing to alienate African Americans, many whites celebrated him for having the courage to be an individual. Now that he has done more to commune with the African American community, many whites see him as being fake or pandering or no longer having the creativity or courage to be the hybrid individual that they have come to love. Again, I’m not accusing you or the member who started this thread of this, but that change in attitude can clearly be seen. All you have to do is check the posts by many during the BET Awards Show.

Being a minority myself, I do understand the concept of wanting to be grounded closer to people who are Just Like You (saying this with tongue firmly in cheek). I always thought that part of Prince's message was about being universally appealing and not caring about color lines or politics such as that. "White, Black, Puerto Rican - everybody just-a freakin'" and whatnot. It was, in part, Prince's teachings that allowed myself and many others to become more accepting of people's differences. It was inspiring to me that someone's individuality was more important than being too Black, not Black enough, too White, not White enough, etc. I don't like the concept of "acting Black" or "acting White" - this is two-way hypocritical racism and it invalidates and sets back civil rights every time it creeps into the general public's vernacular.

Thus, it was very unfortunate to me when I read an interview around the time of the release of The Rainbow Children where Prince stated that we shouldn't champion our differences rather than our similarities. At first glance, I took this to mean that we are all human and we all have compassion and love in our hearts and these are cornerstones we need to get back to and refamiliarize ourselves with. Social constructs have a way of dehumanizing us. I thought, how wonderful that Prince still believes - even with such strong religious and exclusionary beliefs - that we are all one nation under a groove. Eventually, though, I began to realize that this was not the case and he was referring more to our subcultures of Black, European, etc. This, to me, is devastating when you look back on Prince's career where it didn't matter what someone's race was, what their sexuality was, etc. It, thus, made people like me feel like he was judging me. Around the same time (if not a couple years earlier), it was widely circulated he had made unfavorable remarks about Wendy and Lisa being gay. This was equally devastating for me and people like me who felt this was him judging gay people and seeing them in a negative light when gay people have been one of the most sizable groups in his fanbase.

Eventually, though, I began to realize that this was not the case and he was referring more to our subcultures of Black, European, etc. This, to me, is devastating when you look back on Prince's career where it didn't matter what someone's race was, what their sexuality was, etc. It, thus, made people like me feel like he was judging me. Around the same time (if not a couple years earlier), it was widely circulated he had made unfavorable remarks about Wendy and Lisa being gay. This was equally devastating for me and people like me who felt this was him judging gay people and seeing them in a negative light when gay people have been one of the most sizable groups in his fanbase."

I have no idea why you think that "similarites"means subcultures. I took it to mean let's celebrate how we are all the same and not focus so much on the differences. I think you took what P said and put your own spin on it.

As far as W&L are concerned if he even said anything about them being gay at all why did they work with him after the comments were made. Kind of makes me think it was a bunch of B.S from people overeacting to his coversion to JW.

"

1725topp said:

Spinlight said:

What's pretty interesting, though, is his continued use of white-washing in his promo artwork. From some of those really powdered-faced pics from 1993 to 20TEN's cover image of him looking straight up Caucasian. I don't care about Prince's racial politics, but I am surprised that no one has ever taken issue with that. Normally, when a black artist pays constant homage to the perception that white = beauty, they are pretty widely criticized.

The paisley park utopia is still open, but it seems that many no longer want to be citizens because Prince has supplemented his desire to be a hybrid of race and gender with is desire to understand or celebrate what it means to survive and thrive as an African person.

As for whether or not Prince has been producing quality music over the past ten to twenty years, again we can agree to disagree because I'm still grooving. I love The Rainbow Children,Musicology, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS. My love for it doesn't make it great music, but someone else's distain for it does not make it poorly crafted either.

I really commend your articulation and your level-headed approach. I read your posts in the other thread about P being a musical genius and found myself nodding my head in agreement.

Re: Universality and Paisley Park -

I think it is important for everyone, if they choose, to learn about their own culture's history - if they choose. But I don't know that I think that being universal equates to being less African American or more European American. I think that in a country of 350 million people where only 13% of the population is African American and the European American population is about 8 times that, it's going to seem rife with inequalities and double-standards because, in all likelihood, it is. There could never be an equal representation when one side of the population overwhelms the other to such a huge degree. I believe the approach to racism is woefully ineffectual. Instead of those who are affected by racism enforcing an "Us vs Them" mentality upon each other, I believe dissemination of information is the best course. Education about racism is important, but I don't think that it helps to favor separatist beliefs. Isn't this what people fought for? Desegregation?

Relating this to Prince's music, why does he even feel the need to cater to people with latent separatist beliefs? Alienation or not. Some people mentioned he might not trust white band members and employees cuz some of them sold his story to the paps, but his own half brother Duane leaked a ton of unreleased material to the bootleggers. I believe that if he really bought the concept of multiculture, then he would've been resistant to people who would seek to send him down a path of arrogant militantness when it comes to race. Prince, today, draws hard lines in the sand between everyone where the Prince of old erased those lines so everyone could play together. Forget the white, the black, the yellow, the brown and remember the human heart. I don't find this to be some sort of subversive white agenda. I find it to be compassion.

Recently, since Prince is in the news lately and I'm the only hardcore Prince fan in my circle of friends, I was asked what I felt about his recent output. My answer? He released 12 albums from 2000-2010 (including 20TEN) and I could whittle it down to 2 albums with 12 or 13 tracks a piece of strong material reminiscent of his former creative strength. I went home and slapped them together and was really reminded about how strong some of this material really is. I really, really love "Boom" and think it's one of his most brilliant songs of the decade. I think "The Rainbow Children" (aside from the goofy vocal track) is an extremely catchy, earthy, warm, and important groove in his library and I would love to hear him do it live more often.

That said, I reiterate what I said in another thread, and that is that I believe people expect Prince to put out a stellar record each time regardless of the fact that there was no guarantee that he would and that I have no real investment in Prince beyond the money I paid for previous albums. But that was a one time cash out, not a subscription. And sure, there were stinkers on some of those old albums, but moreso than these new songs being "poorly made", I agree with you in that other thread about the songs simply not moving people and their confusion of those two concepts. It would appear that the less diverse Prince's band has become, the less diverse his influences have been. Sure, in the end, Prince wrote all those records, but he had immense influence from the people around him because Prince is the world's most talented artistic sponge. Everything he does is directly influenced by his peers and lots of artists from the 60s and 70s. If his bandmates were listening to The Beatles and Mozart, he wrote songs like The Beatles and Mozart. If his bandmates were listening to Hendrix or were making techno bass and drum loops in their spare time, he wrote gritty 3 piece rock songs and techno tracks.

No disrespect to the people he has in his band right now, but they must be listening to the Adult Contemporary station cuz he does a lot of snooze-worthy tracks.

[Edited 6/30/10 2:40am]

laurarichardson said:

Spinlight said:

Being a minority myself, I do understand the concept of wanting to be grounded closer to people who are Just Like You (saying this with tongue firmly in cheek). I always thought that part of Prince's message was about being universally appealing and not caring about color lines or politics such as that. "White, Black, Puerto Rican - everybody just-a freakin'" and whatnot. It was, in part, Prince's teachings that allowed myself and many others to become more accepting of people's differences. It was inspiring to me that someone's individuality was more important than being too Black, not Black enough, too White, not White enough, etc. I don't like the concept of "acting Black" or "acting White" - this is two-way hypocritical racism and it invalidates and sets back civil rights every time it creeps into the general public's vernacular.

Thus, it was very unfortunate to me when I read an interview around the time of the release of The Rainbow Children where Prince stated that we shouldn't champion our differences rather than our similarities. At first glance, I took this to mean that we are all human and we all have compassion and love in our hearts and these are cornerstones we need to get back to and refamiliarize ourselves with. Social constructs have a way of dehumanizing us. I thought, how wonderful that Prince still believes - even with such strong religious and exclusionary beliefs - that we are all one nation under a groove. Eventually, though, I began to realize that this was not the case and he was referring more to our subcultures of Black, European, etc. This, to me, is devastating when you look back on Prince's career where it didn't matter what someone's race was, what their sexuality was, etc. It, thus, made people like me feel like he was judging me. Around the same time (if not a couple years earlier), it was widely circulated he had made unfavorable remarks about Wendy and Lisa being gay. This was equally devastating for me and people like me who felt this was him judging gay people and seeing them in a negative light when gay people have been one of the most sizable groups in his fanbase.

I have no idea why you think that "similarites"means subcultures. I took it to mean let's celebrate how we are all the same and not focus so much on the differences. I think you took what P said and put your own spin on it.

"

This was effectively discussed in the interview in question where he was using his current beliefs juxtaposed to his former beliefs and how he no longer subscribed to that mentality anymore. That the similarities were in culture, not in biology.

When someone says, I accept and celebrate your unique flavor, they are seeing you for who you are. When someone says, I accept and celebrate your similarities to me, you encounter a situation where the acceptance comes in degrees. And that is part of why a thread like this exists, for that matter. People assume his white fanbase abandoned him when he start doing rap music. In my opinion, it was Prince whom abandoned his fanbase because it was no longer acceptable to his peers who would suggest that if he didn't rail against racism, then he accepted it.

1725topp said:

However, that brave but naive Prince did not see on the horizon a Ronald Reagan who could re-polarize America to a point where people buying music would be re-segregated into Grunge and Hip Hop.

Great post. This sentence, though, made me think of other reactions to the same phenomenon like Living Colour, Fishbone, the Black Rock Coalition even the Pandemonium-era Time for that matter...

I think there are several reasons.

1. Prince's band members now do little more than play instruments and pander to Prince. I think he got tired of people like Lisa and Wendy and Cat, who wanted to create their own groups within a group, maybe he felt like, he's in charge, he makes all the music, they play it. If they are coming up with their own ideas and rising above their station, then it affects Prince's sound, in the mid 80s he was more tolerant, but now its about him. Monolithic but true.

2. The sound of his music is alot more urban/black and therefore he needs players who are schooled in that sound. Prince's music in the 80s was more pop/ rock orientated along with the funk. I know this point has been done to death, but also now the musical segregation of the early 80s is not so pronounced anymore, a black person dosen't have to sound white to crossover anymore. I mean ok some black groups are still limited by the music they play, but a lot of hip hop and urban soul, r and b, slow jamz etc have massive success in white markets as well as black and its black and racially diverse groups now that have mega hits like the Black Eyed Peas (2 black, 1 Filipino and one mixed race - Stacey has something in her). The 80s Prince was compared to Jimi Hendrix and Sly stone only because he was Black and white people in his group. No one would generalise like that today.

3. Maybe he feels safe around these 'kinfolk' and like some of you say, white players might bring too much attitude and autonomistic thinking to the group.

4. Maybe all the African American players have been chosen for their skills in their instruments, their quickness to pick up the set and the tunes, Prince gives them, as well as their eagerness to please and even though Prince is a control freak, he loves to let his players improvise and solo on stage at times, even to let off steam I guess.

5. Or maybe I am wrong, hes going through so many peole because the music is changing, or his set choices are, and hes just not happy with their playing.

6. The recent bands are not as fixed as they used to be, and maybe thats a sign Prince likes to mix it up, also many of his guys are in and out like the Dunhams and Neto. This maybe to make every concert sound different from the last.

Those are just some thoughts. But yes I have noticed an emphasis on Black band members, and this reflects the fact his music is more black than it was in those wanna be white 80s.

This thread and the thought process behind it is very interesting.

VERY interesting.

The Diversity is SUPPOSED 2 be in the music..........and NOTHING more.

[Edited 6/30/10 6:32am]

[Edited 6/30/10 7:15am]

skywalker said:

It is sad to me that, after all these years, some Prince/music fans don't get it.

[Edited 6/30/10 7:15am]

......and NEVER will get IT.

Spinlight said:

1725topp said:

You seem to be very knowledgeable about Prince so I find it interesting that you do not know that from 1984 to about 2000 Prince was heavily criticized about his seeming preference for whiteness: sound, his hair and demeanor, and the women he dated. Now, I'll admit that if one was not a fan who existed mostly within the African American community and read books and magazines that catered to African American readership then one may not have known this. For instance, when Prince toured in 1996/7 and I was waiting in line to purchase a ticket with mostly white fans, and a white female said to me: "I work in an office with a lot of black people, and I told them that I was going to the Prince concert, and they were not excited or concerned at all." She then asked, "Why don't black people like Prince?" It was hot, and I wasn't in the mood for a prolonged discussion about race and art at that moment, so I just said, "I hope he plays an equal combination of old and new tunes."

It has only been recently since Prince's popularity has risen, again, in the black community en masse. I don't know why it has happened exactly though I do think it has something to do with many black writers and other black artists being more forthright about Prince being recognized as a treasure of the African American community along with his own seeming desire to reconnect with that audience. (I don't know is that is the reason for why he chooses his band members.) For example, people like Stephen Hill, an exec and major shot-caller at BET, and Tavis Smiley, regardless of how many feel about him, go to great lengths to celebrate him as a great “African American” icon.

So, Prince has spent years being criticized by members of the African American community for not being "black enough." As an African American I did understand the criticism, and as a Prince fan I respected his courage to be who he wanted to be regardless of how it made others feel. What I do find interesting (and I'm not saying this of the member who began the thread) is that as long as Prince was saying F-the world and was willing to alienate African Americans, many whites celebrated him for having the courage to be an individual. Now that he has done more to commune with the African American community, many whites see him as being fake or pandering or no longer having the creativity or courage to be the hybrid individual that they have come to love. Again, I’m not accusing you or the member who started this thread of this, but that change in attitude can clearly be seen. All you have to do is check the posts by many during the BET Awards Show.

Being a minority myself, I do understand the concept of wanting to be grounded closer to people who are Just Like You (saying this with tongue firmly in cheek). I always thought that part of Prince's message was about being universally appealing and not caring about color lines or politics such as that. "White, Black, Puerto Rican - everybody just-a freakin'" and whatnot. It was, in part, Prince's teachings that allowed myself and many others to become more accepting of people's differences. It was inspiring to me that someone's individuality was more important than being too Black, not Black enough, too White, not White enough, etc. I don't like the concept of "acting Black" or "acting White" - this is two-way hypocritical racism and it invalidates and sets back civil rights every time it creeps into the general public's vernacular.

Thus, it was very unfortunate to me when I read an interview around the time of the release of The Rainbow Children where Prince stated that we shouldn't champion our differences rather than our similarities. At first glance, I took this to mean that we are all human and we all have compassion and love in our hearts and these are cornerstones we need to get back to and refamiliarize ourselves with. Social constructs have a way of dehumanizing us. I thought, how wonderful that Prince still believes - even with such strong religious and exclusionary beliefs - that we are all one nation under a groove. Eventually, though, I began to realize that this was not the case and he was referring more to our subcultures of Black, European, etc. This, to me, is devastating when you look back on Prince's career where it didn't matter what someone's race was, what their sexuality was, etc. It, thus, made people like me feel like he was judging me. Around the same time (if not a couple years earlier), it was widely circulated he had made unfavorable remarks about Wendy and Lisa being gay. This was equally devastating for me and people like me who felt this was him judging gay people and seeing them in a negative light when gay people have been one of the most sizable groups in his fanbase.

It is sad. Larry Graham got inside his head and he allowed him and the JW religion to mess with his mind in a negative way. What the hell ever happened to just being spiritual?

wasitgood4u said:

Surprised no one made the Hendrix connection - he went the same route for the same reasons. Unfortunately he wasn't around that long afterwards so it's less obvious.

I think whoever said things about where he feels most comfortable came close. That may include some submerged racist tendencies or may just be a legitimate cultural thing...

I do think that you can distinguish the nineties - where it seems to be about regaining credibility with the black community - with the noughties, where he seems to have become more race-conscious and the attitude may be more political.

To be honest (and not wanting to open another worm-can), being Jewish with the family name Pearlman, I've been a little wary of his racial politics since '02...

How so?

1725topp said:

As someone who "came of age" from Dirty Mind to Sign O the Times, I love the Prince who champions individuality and multiculturalism. However, that brave but naive Prince did not see on the horizon a Ronald Reagan who could re-polarize America to a point where people buying music would be re-segregated into Grunge and Hip Hop.

You seriously gonna bring Reagan into this? He had absolutely nothing to do with the state of music. Rock and hip hop was around before and well after him. It's comments like yours that are polarizing and divisive.

skywalker said:

It's like this:

Some of Prince's funkiest moments came with The Revolution. Arguably, the hardest he has rocked has been just him, Michael B. and Sonny T.

Music: If you can play, you can play and it doesn't matter the color of your skin.

It is sad to me that, after all these years, some Prince/music fans don't get it.

[Edited 6/30/10 7:15am]

We all know skin color doesn't matter. But does Prince know that?

TheRIP said:

skywalker said:

It's like this:

Some of Prince's funkiest moments came with The Revolution. Arguably, the hardest he has rocked has been just him, Michael B. and Sonny T.

Music: If you can play, you can play and it doesn't matter the color of your skin.

It is sad to me that, after all these years, some Prince/music fans don't get it.

[Edited 6/30/10 7:15am]

We all know skin color doesn't matter. But does Prince know that?

Is "we" the org? Because I am not so sure "we" know that. I have more faith in Prince than I do in his fans.

skywalker said:

TheRIP said:

We all know skin color doesn't matter. But does Prince know that?

Is "we" the org? Because I am not so sure "we" know that. I have more faith in Prince than I do in his fans.

I don't. I think if he listened to his fans, we'd complain a lot less.

2elijah said:

TheRIP said:

That's basically what I'm getting at. It seems he used to really be into extreme diversity in all aspects of the band, as if it was specifically by design. That all changed around 1990 and I still wonder if something happened that year to make him switch gears so dramatically.

It just seems rather strange that since he did the Ebony issue, how all these questions are being raised regarding race. This is a man who has various musicians/artists from various, racial backgrounds in his band throughout his career;has dated outside his own race, and now suddenly he is being accused of being racial and gender discrimination. I thought one's ability to be a musician/artist wasn't based on their race or gender unless the rules changed.

I recall Miles Davis being questioned on white and black musicians. HE said that he could her a band on the radio and tell if it was black or white. He said the black musicians had slightly different timing and the white msuican were usually slightly off. But that is jazz and one genius perspective.

Prince can not be cited for any nonsense regarding race. The fact that the question of race has been rasied repeatedly after his Ebony, Jet, BET media exposure confirms my theory that many white fans - especially the european ones - seem to ignore or selectively forget that Prince IS a black man. And that white artists are not held this kind of racial scrutiny and criticism - a fact which is a racist concept in and of itself. They deny him the right to openly identify with his people. No one has the right to question why Prince is on the cover of Ebony when the other "non-black" publications will not put him on the cover. It is ridiculous. Here is the man that defies musical genres and cultural classifiaction more than any major artist alive and someone has the audacity to question diversity in his bands.

I seriously doubt that, but maybe he wants a band of his own nationality. wouldn't you? It's not a big deal, to tell the truth ive never even noticed

Brofie said:

2elijah said:

It just seems rather strange that since he did the Ebony issue, how all these questions are being raised regarding race. This is a man who has various musicians/artists from various, racial backgrounds in his band throughout his career;has dated outside his own race, and now suddenly he is being accused of being racial and gender discrimination. I thought one's ability to be a musician/artist wasn't based on their race or gender unless the rules changed.

I recall Miles Davis being questioned on white and black musicians. HE said that he could her a band on the radio and tell if it was black or white. He said the black musicians had slightly different timing and the white msuican were usually slightly off. But that is jazz and one genius perspective.

Prince can not be cited for any nonsense regarding race. The fact that the question of race has been rasied repeatedly after his Ebony, Jet, BET media exposure confirms my theory that many white fans - especially the european ones - seem to ignore or selectively forget that Prince IS a black man. And that white artists are not held this kind of racial scrutiny and criticism - a fact which is a racist concept in and of itself. They deny him the right to openly identify with his people. No one has the right to question why Prince is on the cover of Ebony when the other "non-black" publications will not put him on the cover. It is ridiculous. Here is the man that defies musical genres and cultural classifiaction more than any major artist alive and someone has the audacity to question diversity in his bands.

E X A C T L Y

Graycap23 said:

Brofie said:

I recall Miles Davis being questioned on white and black musicians. HE said that he could her a band on the radio and tell if it was black or white. He said the black musicians had slightly different timing and the white msuican were usually slightly off. But that is jazz and one genius perspective.

Prince can not be cited for any nonsense regarding race. The fact that the question of race has been rasied repeatedly after his Ebony, Jet, BET media exposure confirms my theory that many white fans - especially the european ones - seem to ignore or selectively forget that Prince IS a black man. And that white artists are not held this kind of racial scrutiny and criticism - a fact which is a racist concept in and of itself. They deny him the right to openly identify with his people. No one has the right to question why Prince is on the cover of Ebony when the other "non-black" publications will not put him on the cover. It is ridiculous. Here is the man that defies musical genres and cultural classifiaction more than any major artist alive and someone has the audacity to question diversity in his bands.

E X A C T L Y

Brofie said:

2elijah said:

It just seems rather strange that since he did the Ebony issue, how all these questions are being raised regarding race. This is a man who has various musicians/artists from various, racial backgrounds in his band throughout his career;has dated outside his own race, and now suddenly he is being accused of being racial and gender discrimination. I thought one's ability to be a musician/artist wasn't based on their race or gender unless the rules changed.

I recall Miles Davis being questioned on white and black musicians. HE said that he could her a band on the radio and tell if it was black or white. He said the black musicians had slightly different timing and the white msuican were usually slightly off. But that is jazz and one genius perspective.

Prince can not be cited for any nonsense regarding race. The fact that the question of race has been rasied repeatedly after his Ebony, Jet, BET media exposure confirms my theory that many white fans - especially the european ones - seem to ignore or selectively forget that Prince IS a black man. And that white artists are not held this kind of racial scrutiny and criticism - a fact which is a racist concept in and of itself. They deny him the right to openly identify with his people. No one has the right to question why Prince is on the cover of Ebony when the other "non-black" publications will not put him on the cover. It is ridiculous. Here is the man that defies musical genres and cultural classifiaction more than any major artist alive and someone has the audacity to question diversity in his bands.

We're free to question whatever we want. The only reason he has all the fame and riches is because of us. We've earned the right to question and be critical.

1960PurpleRain said:

I seriously doubt that, but maybe he wants a band of his own nationality. wouldn't you? It's not a big deal, to tell the truth ive never even noticed

Nationality or race?

TheRIP said:

skywalker said:

Is "we" the org? Because I am not so sure "we" know that. I have more faith in Prince than I do in his fans.

I don't. I think if he listened to his fans, we'd complain a lot less.

Yeah right.

skywalker said:

TheRIP said:

I don't. I think if he listened to his fans, we'd complain a lot less.

Yeah right.

Why not? Many fans share common issues with him. If he listened to the fans and made a few adjustments, we'd have less to complain about. Nothing unusual about that.

That's a bullshit statement like most of this thread.

TheRIP said:

skywalker said:

Yeah right.

Why not? Many fans share common issues with him. If he listened to the fans and made a few adjustments, we'd have less to complain about. Nothing unusual about that.

I don't disagree that Prince could take some fan suggestions into consideration. That said, people find things to complain about regardless. Everyone has a different ideal Prince that they want. Everyone has a different sound/album/movie/tour/promotion that they would love and want to experience. I mean, right now you have fans bitching about Prince essentially releasing free music with the newspaper give away.

muleFunk said:

That's a bullshit statement like most of this thread.

Then avert your eyes from it.

skywalker said:

TheRIP said:

Why not? Many fans share common issues with him. If he listened to the fans and made a few adjustments, we'd have less to complain about. Nothing unusual about that.

I don't disagree that Prince could take some fan suggestions into consideration. That said, people find things to complain about regardless. Everyone has a different ideal Prince that they want. Everyone has a different sound/album/movie/tour/promotion that they would love and want to experience. I mean, right now you have fans bitching about Prince essentially releasing free music with the newspaper give away.

No doubt. No person on earth can ever exist without criticism. I just believe Prince could bring a lot of fans back if he quit a lot of his bullshit. I personally haven't bought one of his albums in almost 12 years.

TheRIP said:

Brofie said:

I recall Miles Davis being questioned on white and black musicians. HE said that he could her a band on the radio and tell if it was black or white. He said the black musicians had slightly different timing and the white msuican were usually slightly off. But that is jazz and one genius perspective.

Prince can not be cited for any nonsense regarding race. The fact that the question of race has been rasied repeatedly after his Ebony, Jet, BET media exposure confirms my theory that many white fans - especially the european ones - seem to ignore or selectively forget that Prince IS a black man. And that white artists are not held this kind of racial scrutiny and criticism - a fact which is a racist concept in and of itself. They deny him the right to openly identify with his people. No one has the right to question why Prince is on the cover of Ebony when the other "non-black" publications will not put him on the cover. It is ridiculous. Here is the man that defies musical genres and cultural classifiaction more than any major artist alive and someone has the audacity to question diversity in his bands.

We're free to question whatever we want. The only reason he has all the fame and riches is because of us. We've earned the right to question and be critical.

Buying a CD earns you nothing but the music on that CD. A concert ticket gets you nothing but a show. It doesnt entitle you to dictate or criticize Prince's personal identity. It also doesnt entitle intelligent people to deny historical and social facts that can be attributed to the need for the existence of publications like Ebony and the people that read it.

[Edited 6/30/10 11:25am]

crusader said:

TheRIP said:

We're free to question whatever we want. The only reason he has all the fame and riches is because of us. We've earned the right to question and be critical.

Buying a CD earns you nothing but the music on that CD. A concert ticket gets you nothing but a show. It doesnt entitle you to dictate or criticize Prince's personal identity. It also doesnt entitle intelligent people to deny historical and social facts that can be attributed to the need for the existence of publications like Ebony and the people that read it.

[Edited 6/30/10 11:25am]

Well, I've already criticized him. So now what?

2elijah said:

PicklesMcMillan said:

because the org likes to get off topic

and it might be a full on racial debate that answers none of your original questions

expect to see the following orgers lauraRichardson, ernestswell , BartVanHemelen, 2elijah

and many more all going at it j/p

lets hope it doesnt reach to that though

Oh hush you. I just think it's silly that someone would think race has something to do with the artists he chooses to play in his band.

I don't think it's silly, if it's silly then Prince was silly when he specifically wanted a racially diverser band in the beginning.