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I was shocked to find out that Slash was Black(mixed).
It's also funny to know that he waited 22 years to reveal this info.
Not to many brothers survive in the rock genre. |
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Not sure when he revealed this, but I recall reading an interview where he advised that he protested when Axel wrote that song (don't know the name) with the "N" word in it. I was no Guns N' Roses fan, so I don't know the name of the song. I just remember the hype surrounding the song.
If it's true that he felt the need to hide his identity from the group, then that's a damned shame. That means he had to hide his momma from the group. Means that when she went to see her son perform (providing that she's still alive), that either he had to deny that was his mother, or just play like he didn't know who she was. That's some sad shit right there.
Personally, even if I could "pass"....I don't think that my heart would let me do it. No lie. Not for all the money in the world. I just dont think I could. Heck, I can "pass" for Latina, and I'm quick to tell people...nope I'm African American when that question used to come up. Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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In Europe after Hitler, Mousillini and Stalin, it's actually thought to be very bad taste and sometimes even grossly unscientific, to think of people in races. Black and white aren't races, I was taught in school, with the sublimental: "And if you believe that they are, you've become pray of Hitler's propaganda" (No, I was actually told that). Race is thought as Neanderthal's and Homo Sapiens, or the in the least, as a "cultural" concept, rather than a scientific.
Why do I mention this? Because Brofie wrote this:
I think one has to understand how Europeans (in general, perhaps mostly in the Western Europe) think on the subject. Europeans aren't bothered about their creed, their roots or their background as individuals, as it seems Americans are (how many times have I heard Americans say their ancestors came with the Mayflower, and how many times have I thought: "Does it matter? That was hundreds of years ago .. what does that has to do with you, now?"). In Europe everybody comes from everywhere and you won't hear a European proudly annonce that he's one tenth Indian, part German and part Chinese, since it's a given that of course you're a mix of everything. There's not really any alternative to being mixed. Couple that with the continental reaction to the likes of Hitler, who surely showed us how far you can go with ideas of a "race" being unique (the Ayrian one, though "ayrian" is not a term of race, rather a term belonging to the history of European language), holding hands with violent seperatism and power, and you have a whole different perspective on the issue of race.
Sure, there is racism in Europe. Any black European can attest to that and I've heard more than plenty stories about white idiots, but Europeans are in general more racist towards "other cultures". People as a whole don't look so much on the color of the skin, as on the culture the person represents. Black, Chinese or any other complexion-related subcultures are rarely big enough to form a cultures within the cultures of the nations and are therefore rarely thought as "different" from the national culture (I'm sure an American here could could about how the people of color therefore must have been assimilated into the mainstream culture, but I'd protest that notion, since that would be to read it through very American glasses). You can be white, but talk with an accent and suffer far more racism than a any black person, as the racism in general is more aimed at your culture (this could be your religion, your sexuality) or nationality.
So..
Yes, Europeans tend to forget that Prince is black. But that is because "black" doesn't mean to Europeans what "black" means to Americans. I don't think of him as black, I think of him as .. "American". His culture is the most important feature. I don't mean to degrade the debate or in anyway derail it, but all of this is why, in general, that you'll find that Europeans just don't "get" the issue. Not because they are white supremists, but the concept of thinking of yourself as a color .. is a bit foreign. Sort of like "social solidarity through taxes" are so foreign a concept to many Americans, that they just don't "get" it.
Anyway. There IS racism in Europe, and in the Eastern Europe it might be more widely common. That I can't deny, and I won't paint a picture of Europe as any sort of paradise on earth; but racism here has a different face and the oppression is an entirely different beast.
But I've really enjoyed this thread, (thank you Spin and 1725). I just wanted to clarify and answer to why many European fans on here apparently question Prince's alignment with color, when most don't understand why it matters in the first place. Hopefully a black European will jump in here and give it a perspective that I can't give as a white Scandinavian.
/end huge general statements about Europeans. | |
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That is an interesting read (eventhough I skimmed it). But I really believe in what you typed above. Race is looked at a lot differently in Europe than in the U.S., but with that being said....it actually was the Europeans who divided the world up in terms of race. But somehow it appears that Europeans have evolved (in general) more progressively than many white Americans in regards to how they view race. Of course I know that racism still exists there, as well as some indifference.
Identifying black people as "black people" or African Americans is very sacred to some blacks. While I can't speak for all black people....generally speaking black people are pretty atuned to the issue that when a black person becomes mainstream, or "liked" by white America; somehow that black person is rationalized as being "less black". So the topic of Prince being a "black man" can become really touchy for some African Americans especially when non-blacks try to "piece meal" him into either being biracial (which is not true), or multi-racial (which most blacks in America are, hence it makes him no different than the majority of Black Americans).
I remember as a kid when some black people would say ...."Oh I'm black, and Indian, and French and"..... Those black people were generally looked at with skepticism, because where I'm from...we only identified as Black...no matter how light our complexion was, or how straight our hair was. This is what went on in my community...I can't speak for other communities of black people in America.
From what you wrote, it appears that you are trying to make the point that Europeans are more Xenophobic, than racist. Interesting.
[Edited 7/3/10 4:04am] Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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The "Purple Rain" movie was a big part of that ride, that took many fans on it..
[Edited 7/3/10 18:03pm] | |
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I know plenty of tanned white people, and if a light-skinned black person put their arms next to one of them, they may just come close in complexion. Doesn't mean that comparison changes a person's race though. 
In reference to the bolded part. Yes in America race is defined by skin color, but you have to remember that Black doesn't just define the various skin colors (from very light to very dark) of our skin color, it involves the various cultures within this group, as a whole, who share a similar history/various lifestyles/languages/cultures/dialects/and various educational levels, socio-economic/political views and situations, just to name a few. I think that is where the confusion comes in, when many non-Americans don't seem to understand what all the term "Black" actually entails
You have to understand that Europeans can identify by their specific ethnicities, whereas with many Black Americans, where the majority are descendants of African/African-American slaves, and because of the transatlantic slave trade and the breeding process that took place by many white slave owners, (most conducted in unfortunate circumstances such as rape), led to many mixtures among Blacks of African descent, as well as other races, that are in their DNA. Unless Black Americans, individuallly do a DNA test to trace which African ethnic group's DNA runs through their veins, then it would be easier to identify by such group, but then you also cannot dismiss the fact, that African ancestry is not the only ethnicity that runs through the majority of Black Americans' veins, there's also the DNA of other race/ethnic groups, because of the breeding, and intermixing that took place in the U.S and throughout the entire Caribbean, during the transatlantic slave trade. That cannot be dismissed, because it is very much a part of us as a whole.
I hope you can understand where I am going with this, because those are some of the reasons why many refer to themselves as "Black" or African-American". Let's not forget that they were once categorized as "property" as well, and not too many white slave owners that fathered hundreds of thousands of black babies during that time, were willing to claim them as part of their race, even knowing, they were many of those black babies' fathers, and so the intermixing began, based on all I've mentioned above, let's not forget that at that time, many Blacks and Native Americans intermixed as well. But primarily as a whole, Blacks in America identify with Blacks in Africa,as part of our history and part of our identity, although the full connection, i.e., ethnicities/cultures, separated Blacks in America, from Africa, because of the transatlantic slave trade, leaving us to develop our own, various dialects/cultures, lifestyles and socio/economic/political views and situations throughout America and the Caribbean. Hope this info helps with your understanding as well.
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Again, can you prove he was "racist?" | |
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I'd like to see some rock bassists and guitarists up there. If Prince really wanted to try something new and innovative, he'd try that. He's been stuck in the same groove for too long. | |
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In an interview from the early 80's, Prince said his mother was Italian. | |
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Well during the early part of his career, it is obvious he was aiming to have a crossover fan base as well as, playing up to the Purple Rain role now didn't he, and that is how many fans, especially non-blacks, got pulled into believing his parents were biracial, based on that movie. But I bet that statement came back and bit Prince in his ass, so-to-speak, years later.
It is also no secret that both Prince's parents in real life were Black. Any new Prince fans watching the movie "Purple Rain" today, and don't know much about Prince's background, will come away thinking Prince's real-life parents were a mixed couple, mainly because of the characters that played his parents in the movie, and the fact that he is a light-skinned Black man, made/makes it easy for many who've watched that movie to fall for that..
It is clear that Prince knows he's Black, as he included himself as part of the Black community, in the comments he wrote in response to the recent questions from the 2010 Ebony interviewer, when he comments on Blacks, as well as Black artists, and mentions how, many of them (black musicians), have been treated by the music industry over the years, He also stated and wrote, in his own words, about Black people that, "We are still a beautiful and industrial people."
I believe because of some of the statements he made during that Ebony interview, and what he said about how black musicians/artists have been treated over the years by record company execs, is why we've seen threads similar to this one, popping up all over these forums recently.
[Edited 7/3/10 20:38pm] | |
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How do you think he feels black artists have been treated differently from white artists? I don't know if it's true or not, but I think the only color record execs see is GREEN. | |
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I don't know. You'll have to ask him that yourself, since it was his statement. Didn't you read the Ebony article? He did make a short reference to the Harlem Renaissance, so he was obviously, not just talking about this time period, but letting the interviewer know that it was happening from early on.
I do agree, however, that record execs see "Green" when they have interests in signing musicians/artists. I mean isn't that their purpose for sigining musicians/artists of interest?
I would love to read orger "1725Stopp's" take on that time period--the Harlem Renaissance.
[Edited 7/3/10 21:13pm] | |
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Produce the article, or the interview show that Prince was on when he said this. I'll say...no matter what Prince has "tricked" a segment of his audience into believeing about him in regards to his race. I'm telling you that it was one big fat lie.
Maybe Prince initially thought that he neeed to be vague or ambiguous about his racial identity in order to to more effectively be marketed to the masses. This appeared to evidently work, because if in 1980 he was the kind of man to wear a raised fist around his neck, and to write songs about the "Motherland'...I doubt that he would have as many non-black fans as he has. So there was a method in his madness. That method worked so well, that even this very day, non-black people are tricked into believing that Prince is somehow multi-racial, even AFTER he identifies as being black.
Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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True. At that time in his career, it was obviously about pulling in a multiracial fan base, and not being "pigeonholed" by record execs into one category, which is often what record execs did to many black artists--practically, limiting their potential and capabilities to reach across racial lines with their music. Prince was smart, he wasn't falling for that BS, so he did what he had to do, to get his music across to "everyone" at that time, using his personal assets--racially, sexually and gender-wise, to attract the audience he wanted. The Purple Rain movie raked in a multiracial audience and years later, still have some fans confused about Prince's race. The producers/directors were thinking of one thing "Money" and by pulling in a multiracial base, they achieved their goal, and creating the parents of Prince's character in the movie, to be bi-racial parents, helped to bring in that money. Many white fans, and some black fans as well, apparently took art to imitate life, and was fooled into believing Prince's real life parents were a biracial couple, but truth be told they were both Black. Whatever mystery Prince kept many of his fans in, worked to bring him a worldwide fan base, but now that he is older, and has changed his views in life,spiritually, some fans are suffering from an aftershock, and having a hard time accepting the Prince of now, but that does not change the legendary, international artist that he stil is today.
It's different in this day and age with music now, because music in general, has already crossed-over, because you have black/white/hispanic, etc., music lovers, listening to the music of black and white artists, whose music pretty much could go mainstream these days. During the early part of Prince's career, it was not that far after the civil rights movement, and there was still a lot of segregation in America in the mid to late 70s, and blacks were mainly listening or categorized to listening to r&b, and whites, were listening to Pop. Groups like the Jackson 5 and a few others, kind of helped to break that, and slowly but surely whites/blacks were listening to the same type music, but black artists were still being pigeon-holed into r&b, even if some of their music at that time, could have crossed over, just like Ike and Tina Turner, Jimi Hendrix, but they were still by far, just a handful of black artists that managed to crossover. Prince apparently refused to be pigeonholed, and used every avenue, racially, sexually, to get the attention of the audience he sought out to attract, to listen to his music, and he succeeded.
Like I said today, it's a different era now. White kids are buying music from black rap/hip-hop, r&b, etc., artists, as well as blacks buying music from various artists --black or white, whether any of these artists have all black members or all white members in their group. If the music is good, people will buy it, regardless of the race of the musician/artist. I remember back in the day, when whites or blacks wouldn't admit if they bought music of a black or white artist, and when some record execs would not put the pic of a white artist who had a r&b type sound on the face of the album, because they were promoting that music to the black community, and was afraid if they saw the artist was white, then they wouldn't buy the music, but today, things have changed, because music has successfully crossed racial lines.
This is why Prince doesn't have to prove anything anymore, he already achieved his goal, and today, it doesn't matter what the race of the artist is, if the music sounds good, people will buy it. it is apparent that Prince is enjoying playing his music whenever he wants touring whenever he likes or just showing up at a club and jamming with different musicians from various, racial backgrounds, whether they are "known" artists or a known, established artist.
[Edited 7/3/10 21:40pm] | |
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I think this is where Prince's comments can be taken as being a bit divisive. Instead of saying blacks have been treated unfairly, how about saying artists in general have been treated unfairly? | |
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It wasn't an article. It was an audio recording, which I bought on CD. I can sell you a copy if you like. | |
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I can understand how some folks reading those comments could see that as a divisive statement, because he didn't mention all "artists" in general, compared to saying "black artists", but my guess is that his main concern, during that interview was specifically based on his concern for how black musicians/artists and how the music industry today, conducts business with them.
From what I got from that interview, is that he more than likely, over the years noticed and learned of how different many black musicians/artists were treated in the industry, compared to non-black artists, and how many non-black artists were not being "ripped off or treated as unfairly" or at the same unfair levels, as black artists were throughout the years, by record execs/record companies. Apparently his comments in the recent Ebony issue, focused specificallly on his concerns regarding black musicians/artists in the industry today, and how business is conducted with them by record execs/record companies, as well as their type(s) of music and categories they are often labeled under.
I don't think his concern specifically for black musicians/artists during that interview, means he is not aware, that some non-black artists are treated unfairly, as well within the industry. I remember his concern for Esthero (a white artist), and other non-black artists, who felt the industry wasn't treating them fairly, so one can't say he is not concerned about all musicians/artists regardless of their racial background.. I remember when Esthero wrote a song called "Musical Revolution" and Princeposted her song/video on his former NPGMC site, and that song was a message from an artist who was disgusted about the music industry and the state of music, as well as the artists the music industry turned a blind eye to.
Also, during his comments in that Ebony interview, he mentioned the era of the "Harlem Renaissance" obviously as an example to pinpoint to the interviewer, how far back that situation had been going on with some record execs/companies, and how they conducted business with many black artists throughout the years, as well as his concern about Black ownership, as he also mentioned the "Black Wall Street" era. So apparently, his main focus in those comments was centered on and related to Black ownership within the economy today, as well as his concerns about the business dealings of record execs/companies with black musicians/artists, and the concern of black musicians/artists and ownership of their music. From his statement in that interview, it seems that is a major concern of Prince, and has been for a long time, as he gave hints in quite a few of his past songs referencing that situation. His song "Avalanche" comes to mind.
[Edited 7/4/10 12:14pm] | |
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Site your source...so that we can all verify. What "CD"? Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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Well why wouldn't you take it seriously, I don't mean it's critically serious, but why not?
even the term we use are idiotic, brown and tan white people, pink fair tan black people Race can change as anyone sees fit because it's not a biological truth, but a social construction
Black & White equivalent to Negro(id) & Caucasion are constructions based on a racial hierarchy
So Prince could easily go to South Africa and because Coloured, not black Prince could easily got to many parts of the Caribbean & Latin America and become Mulatto and in some case even white Prince could go to any part of Europe and be whatever
Kimora Lee Simmons includes herself as part of the black community as well. Yet she also identifies as Asian. Many people who identify as biracial or multiracial have a strong solidarity with the black community.
It's no secret the Prince has always questioned race | |
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Well actually only Prince fans may/would know Prince isn't 1/2 white
THose who left off with Purple Rain and the mystery surrounding the PR hype, many black americans probably think he is 1/2white too
I bet if he took one of those biological/genetics test his dna would show more Euro admixture than African (there is no such thing as white or black dna)
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Prince can pass as White....to blind people with white canes.
The issue is that Prince is an American...and Americans who fit Princes physical description with the biological parents that he has ARE CONSIDERED BLACK! Just deal with it. Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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That sounds neat but it's not a reality, it's a part of being a celebrity,
People crack on Tiger Woods about it too, it will happen for a long time. | |
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If that's what you need to believe in order to come to terms with you admiring him...and if that belief is what it takes for you to continue to buy his albums....who am I to tell you how twisted and narrow that belief really is.
So now Prince has more "European" in him than "African". Ha!
Funny thing is that I've always liked Sting...and Michael McDonald. But NEVER have I tried to incinuate that they were somehow Black. I appreciate their talent, and I don't have to "make them black" in order to do it.
Seems that many Prince fans need to somehow "make him white" or "partially white" in order to reconcile thier love for the man. That's just crazy and twisted. Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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Why would U assume that someone is trying to hide Slash? Slash was wearing his hair like that since his early teen years. He's a rock artist, a bit of a hippie.
And Slash doesn't identify as black as far as I know, He loves his Black mother and his Jewish father
Slash could go for a lot of different ethnic groups, sometimes he looks white sometimes it's obvious he's part black
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U might have just found out about it, but it was pretty common knowledge for those who were GnR/Slash fans
way back in the late 80's It's also one of the reasons Michael Jackson used him as a guitarist, I think Janet did too
It's one of the reasons he got a bit of flack early on for being a part Black guitarist
Slash is friends with Lenny Kravitz who was married to Lisa Bonet it was talked about in tabloids, entertainment news etc etc that all 3 were 1/2 Jewish 1/2 Black | |
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Don't make it bigger than what it is, he never tried to pass or hide that he was part Black Like you mentioned up above his mother was a regular at his shows even backstage | |
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Thank you, and this is from an American that studies racialism multiculturism and mixed race identities through the world
Americans need to understand that our notions of race don't fit into other countries. Even moreso the notion/law of the One Drop Rule is exclusively an American concept: 1 Drop of Black/Negro blood makes you black.
In Louisiana Creole cutlure they had 6-10 different mulatto terms for people who were of white-other admixture: example a mulatre and a blanc produced a quadroon, a quadroon and a white produced an octoroon and there are like 5 more after that the last being Sang Mele and the sang mele could be considered white as long as he/she had no slave/negro dialect, mannerisms, etc etc
So Americas idea of Prince being black or Mariah Carey or even Lenny Kravitz or Vanessah Williams is based on the One Drop Rule, a racist invention that sadly many African-Americans have taken as truth.
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So you are one out of a globe of people who could not acertain Slash's racial identity. The REASON why we could not tell is because he had his hair in his face like cousin "it" and he had that top hat on, and he was often shot with shadowy footage. No way that Guns N Roses were trying to advertise that Slash was black. No way. Although I'm your biggest fan...I'm also your biggest critic. Can you deal with that? | |
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Cynic U need to understand how the dna test works
Actually many people have taken this test. For you to look at Prince and say he looks closer to African than European is twisted and narrow, that fact that his mother looked closer to white with blue eyes and he father being part white, to say Prince would have more African genetics is ludicrous. But in America the One Drop Rule prevails
A black identity in America is a social political one, not a biological one
I like Prince for Prince, liked him way before Purple Rain etc etc, I loved his 'Am I black or white Am I straight or gay'
Author Denzy Senna: black father white mother, If you say her walking down the street you would see a white Arabic or Jewish woman not a Black woman, yet she loosely identifies as Black.
Professor Henry Louis Gates took the dna test and because of the recent admixture on both parents side, he dna came back 50%Euro 50% African yet he is not biracial | |
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I'm saying it wasn't a secret. Nor was he trying to hide it, I know of it because it was talked about. Lenny Kravitz and Slash being friends it was always talked about that both were 1/2 Jewish 1/2 Black
Slash wasn't all that big so he wasn't going to be talked about like Michael Jackson, come on.
And why should GnR have to advertise that Slash was 1/2 Black. Slash is not Black. His mother is. | |
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