Prince still has “it” but things in 2010 are quite a bit different from things pre JW.

Prince built a career on the notion that he was “free” 2 do as he damn well pleased and his fans loved it. The wild outfits, the diverse styles, the women, the love of “God”, the movies, the concerts…….all of it. Then 1996/7 happened.

The loss of a child in 1996/7 was a terrible tragedy 4 Prince. I am happy that someone was there 2 help Prince piece things back together. Prince’s conversion 2 JW could have very well saved his life. So I’m glad 2 see that he came out of the other side of the loss of his child and marriage. Unfortunately while his personal life survived his artistic side suffered 2 some degree. Personally I still love the music but the Prince material post 1996 is quite different. Living your life according 2 someone else’s rules is quite constraining especially 4 an artist who built his entire career without conventional rules. The music is still as strong as it ever was but the lyrics are obvious in its attempt 2 remain within the boundaries of Prince’s religion. I can “feel” the restraints as I hear the music. It saddens me, but it is his art and he can take it down any path that he chooses.

At the end of the day, I’m just glad that he still chooses 2 make music and shares it with the world. After all, he could choose NOT 2 share it. With all of the complaints about Prince it seems that some of u would be happy if this were the case.

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

I have said this over and over that I am just happy that through all of that Prince had someone or some thing to help show him the other side-it's a wonder that he made it through So I guess I am thankful to Larry for helping a brotha out when he needed it the most. As for the music, yes it has changed, but we all have Hell, he could have just called it quits, but that would not be our Prince The religion may not be to your liking, but you will at least listen just to hear the music-is that a bad thing? No? Who knows those messages or rants as some call them from Prince just may serve to bring someone else to Jehova/God whatever you like and that's what it's really all about.

To be more precise, I would say the dates should be:

1978- 1997 ---he was hungry, motivated, and had an "edge"

1998- 2010 ---he lost his edge, no longer hungry, and has Larry and Tina.

That's the main difference, and that's sad.

Greycap23, I hear the restraint in his music you're talking about. It's not right nor good.

[Edited 6/23/10 11:17am]

[Edited 6/23/10 11:19am]

makes you wonder what he would be like today without having had larry there and without

converting to JW.

i don't think it would be that big a difference. personally, i think that what happened with

prince and mayte and their short lived family had the bigger effect. it took him out of his

bubble and thrust him into the real world where he had as little control over things as any

of us do.

emancipation came before his conversion and before any personal tragedy. it was full of

material he described as 'so good i'm keeping it for when i'm free from warners'. so that

sound, that production and general direction came from some other place. perhaps from

wanting to be considered more approachable? [is that even a word? lol]. his marriage,

constant dealings with her and inlaws etc, the prospect of a family. it must have been an

enormous change for him.

emancipation, nps, rave. they all sound the same with their plastic-ish production and full

of songs that would have been good bsides but not considered for an official album back

in the day when prince was still 'Prince'.

none of that really came from his religious conversion.

then he stopped the cursing and started dressing more conservatively. which i think was

a wise choice. he was getting older and he cleaned up his act a bit. nothing wrong with

that at all. it would seem silly if he was still cursing and singing about nasty things all of

the time in this day and age. cleaning up his act gave him the class that fits someone of

his stature and with his musical legacy.

and are the lyrics about religion really the problem with his later music? for me it's just

the production or the repeating of things he's done before that bothers me.

TRC, whatever people think of it, was a good album. imo it's a brilliant one. i don't even

mind the lyrics. they seem to fit the songs, don't sound crammed in or out of place and

the album breathes life and vibrancy. that whole period, including Xpectation, N.E.W.S.,

C-Note, the One Nite Alone piano album etc. all of that was just of a very high standard

and of a new, searching and excellently executed nature.

Religion or misguided historical rants aside, the music and the lyrics were solid and even

rivalled his 80s output in places. at least to me it sounded (and still does sound) like that.

then came "musicology" and things went down the shitter.

that's the real problem with prince's recent output. for a long time he'd been doing what

he felt like and what he wanted, however, whenever, wherever.

but since 2004 he's been chasing success again. why, is beyond me. what is he looking

for? does he want number 1 singles again? does he want his album to enter the charts

at number 1? [some of them did since 2004, so i guess that's a good thing for him].

i just feel that his music suffered for it. musicology, planet earth and 3121 all have just

a handfull of incredible songs on them and the rest are just 'meh'. once again bsides or

something for related artists. not something for a full on prince album.

beyond the lyrics, which are mostly not that heavy on religion on any of those discs, the

music itself has lost that magical element that made and makes "mountains" stand out

as one of the most magical moments in pop music.

back in the day you couldn't fit a prince song onto any mixed tape cuz it would stand out

like a sore thumb. in a good way. because of it's otherworldly sound and brilliance.

these days you could pretty much fit any of his new songs on a mixed tape since it's just

a 'regular' sound, be it somewhat sprinkled with prince's signature sounds.

the magic is gone, that's it. and i don't think that's about the religion. that's about something

else entirely.

i agree with your observation, but would like to add that him becoming a Jehovah's Witness is merely the symptom of something else.

in my opinion, his conversion is not genuine, because he hasnt converted his whole lifestyle to fit that of any serious Jehovah's Witness.

his music may exhibit the restraint exercised by Jehovah's Witnesses, although some may argue with that, especially since the release of Elixer and songs about how he'd wants to bang Salma Hayek,

(but only if her daughter is prepared to pimp her mother out).

he's created a public image of himself as a Jehovah's Witness that he thinks he has to live up to, but it should be obvious to everyone by now, including Mr Graham, that Prince is flippant with everything,

except sex, money, and music.

that he seeks approval in obvious ways is nothing new, his half-hearted effort as a Jehovah's Witness is one of them.

if he wants to let it effect his music then so be it, but it might be more the hypocrisy of it, that his fans find a bitter pill to swallow.

Umm... Output

lyrical quality

robinhood said:

i agree with your observation, but would like to add that him becoming a Jehovah's Witness is merely the symptom of something else.

in my opinion, his conversion is not genuine, because he hasnt converted his whole lifestyle to fit that of any serious Jehovah's Witness.

his music may exhibit the restraint exercised by Jehovah's Witnesses, although some may argue with that, especially since the release of Elixer and songs about how he'd wants to bang Salma Hayek,

(but only if her daughter is prepared to pimp her mother out).

he's created a public image of himself as a Jehovah's Witness that he thinks he has to live up to, but it should be obvious to everyone by now, including Mr Graham, that Prince is flippant with everything,

except sex, money, and music.

that he seeks approval in obvious ways is nothing new, his half-hearted effort as a Jehovah's Witness is one of them.

if he wants to let it effect his music then so be it, but it might be more the hypocrisy of it, that his fans find a bitter pill to swallow.

I feel u on this.

IstenSzek said:

then he stopped the cursing and started dressing more conservatively. which i think was

a wise choice. he was getting older and he cleaned up his act a bit. nothing wrong with

that at all. it would seem silly if he was still cursing and singing about nasty things all of

the time in this day and age. cleaning up his act gave him the class that fits someone of

his stature and with his musical legacy.

I stopped cursing in the 10th grade. I don't think age has anything to do with that.

Old people still curse and a lot of the time it's right on target. When and what book says, Old people or older people shouldn't curse. To me it's about volume.

I cringe when listening to Chris Rock, because he curse soooooo much. But Martin Lawrence place a good curse word in the right spot and it has me rolling on the floor laughing.

I think even curse words are just that. Words. Even Damn & Ass are in the bible in multiple places.

Bitch is the same as Heifer & Sow.

I think the use of 'curse words' dirty language etc etc became more vulgar in the 1990's

4 me listening 2 Scarlet Pussy is not even a big deal, but when I hear Pussy Control I'm constantly flinching.

As an artist, a rock artist at that he's allowed to dress in different ways. Because he's an entertainer. He's not joe blow walking down the street 2 his job at MacDonalds.

The way he dressed from Controversy - Diamonds & Pearls and the Rave era was not that loose that he need to clean it up. I still love Prince in ruffled shirts. I love the Parade look overall.

Graycap23 said:

robinhood said:

i agree with your observation, but would like to add that him becoming a Jehovah's Witness is merely the symptom of something else.

in my opinion, his conversion is not genuine, because he hasnt converted his whole lifestyle to fit that of any serious Jehovah's Witness.

his music may exhibit the restraint exercised by Jehovah's Witnesses, although some may argue with that, especially since the release of Elixer and songs about how he'd wants to bang Salma Hayek,

(but only if her daughter is prepared to pimp her mother out).

he's created a public image of himself as a Jehovah's Witness that he thinks he has to live up to, but it should be obvious to everyone by now, including Mr Graham, that Prince is flippant with everything,

except sex, money, and music.

that he seeks approval in obvious ways is nothing new, his half-hearted effort as a Jehovah's Witness is one of them.

if he wants to let it effect his music then so be it, but it might be more the hypocrisy of it, that his fans find a bitter pill to swallow.

I feel u on this.

cheers. he said in a recent interview that he thinks he's a better musician now, like he's always trying to better than he was before.

i don't understand why he feels his past work is not 'valid' in that regard, except to say that whatever pressures and expectations his father put on him as a child,

along with the lack of loving acknowledgment of his son's talent,

it has him mentally cornered into believing he always has to 'improve' on himself, and imo, that's why he became a JW,

with Mr Graham acting as surrogate father, and Prince repeating the same psychological manoevers to gain his approval.

i feel sorry for him, because for me, he has always been the most outstanding musician of our time,

and deep down i really believe he is a good nice person with a lot of genuine relaxed love to give.

unfortunately he seems to be plagued by deep-seated insecurities as a result of his childhood and subsequent rise to fame,

which is never as rewarding as everyone thinks it is,

and certainly not an emotional or mental environment condusive to receiving honest appraisal and genuine love.

who can Prince trust? probably no one. it shows in his work.

still learning how to spell

[Edited 6/24/10 18:27pm]

Number23 said:

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

MajesticOne89 said:

Number23 said:

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

you know what?, recently I ahve bitched and moaned about the most recent 3 trax, the P Lite sound over the last few years etc BUT the bottom line is that I am so pleased if he is in a happy place. In his interview yesterday he mentioned this and I just hope that he is being 100% genuine.

1978-1996: cutting edge production, timeless hits, all killers no fillers, stunning style & attitude...

1997-2010: misguided production, filler everywhere, nice comeback (Musicology), a new masterpiece (3121), boring pseudo-spiritualism...

JoeTyler said:

PlusSign said:

MajesticOne89 said:

fresh123 said:

JoeTyler said:

1978-1996: cutting edge production, timeless hits, all killers no fillers, stunning style & attitude...

1997-2010: misguided production, filler everywhere, nice comeback (Musicology), a new masterpiece (3121), boring pseudo-spiritualism...

He had a lot of fillers from 1978-1996....

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this.

MajesticOne89 said:

Number23 said:

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

purplecam said:

fresh123 said:

JoeTyler said: He had a lot of fillers from 1978-1996....

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this.

you're a 3121 fan, you're my friend

JoeTyler said:

purplecam said:

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this.

you're a 3121 fan, you're my friend

Nice to know that

He dosen't have to prove himself anymore. Get over it. Prince c an do what he wants now, but its your own mind if u choose 2 believe or not

Number23 said:

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

You had me at the beginning, i would agree 100% up to that point, then things took a wild turn in the middle lol

But at least you brought back home at he end. Good for you

With that kind of confidence I would want you mediating Arab Israeli treaties, and co-hosting a top rated educational global warming show with Al Gore on Fox News.

[Edited 6/26/10 7:57am]

I think the problems musically were on-again/off-again since 1994.

Come (1994) -- How many Prince fans actually still rock this album?!?

The Gold Experience (1995) -- Very underrated album that was never given a real chance due to all of the attention that the gangsta style of rap was getting, especially at the height of the controversial east coast VS. west coast era. 2pac was such a media darling around this time. Michael Jackson was also making some noise with his History album. Grunge rock was still in. What more could Prince really do at the time?

Chaos & Disorder (1996) -- Waste album. Prince was so ready to get out of Warner Bros Records at this point.

Emacipation (1996) -- Long before Musicology, THIS was the real comeback album. 3 CDs worth of music that was heavily inspired by Prince's new found freedom, happiness, Mayte, and life after Warner Bros in general! In my dead honesty opinion, THIS was the last great Prince album ever.

Crystal Ball (1998) -- If only this collection had more unreleased material......

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic (1999) -- Not taking too much blame away from Prince, but Clive Davis really did NOT know how to deal with someone that was far more of a control freak than he is. There, I said it.

The Rainbow Children (2001) -- NEXT!!!

In conclusion, the problem was definitely within 1994 - 2001. A transitional period? Maybe.

Number23 said:

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

Well anyone that does NOT make the time to understand the lyrics of their favorite recording artist (Prince OR whoever else) has to be one of the most uneducated MFers that ever called himself/herself a fan of music. Remember, songs are like poems. They are words written to music and/or for music.

TonyVanDam said:

Number23 said:

I agree with a lot of that. However, anyone who writes a song is in a caged mindset if they're a human being. I don't really want to hear a 53-year-old singing about shagging his auntie or having a fly wank. He's homing in on death and it must take up much of this thoughts, hense the preoccupation with how he fares in his creator's eyes. It doesn't really bother me - I never listened to Prince for his lyrics. Anyone who does can't be too bright. I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT. For me, it's about the music, it's all I hear. He could be singing about a machine which puts the peas in Pot Noodles for all I care. The emotional resonance for me is in chords, the rhythm, the beat and the sheer oddness and beauty of his arrangements. I just hope the guy's happy - he's given me enough joy for three lifetimes, Christ. Anyone who criticises any man's private beliefs and choice of friends is a moron, in my opinion. He owes us nothing.

[Edited 6/23/10 8:14am]

Well anyone that does NOT make the time to understand the lyrics of their favorite recording artist (Prince OR whoever else) has to be one of the most uneducated MFers that ever called himself/herself a fan of music. Remember, songs are like poems. They are words written to music and/or for music.

But there are some people who don't care about the lyrics when it comes to music. If I went by Prince's lyrics when I was a kid in the 80's, I would have been done with him after I got Lovesexy cause some of the songs confused the shit out of me back then. It was because I loved the groove and I could dance to a lot of the songs, that what made me love him back in the day. If lyrics grab you when it comes to music, fine, but if they don't then fine too, as long as you are feeling it however you feel it, then it's all good and if you don't feel the music/lyrics/both, then it's whatever.

fresh123 said:

JoeTyler said:

1978-1996: cutting edge production, timeless hits, all killers no fillers, stunning style & attitude...

1997-2010: misguided production, filler everywhere, nice comeback (Musicology), a new masterpiece (3121), boring pseudo-spiritualism...

He had a lot of fillers from 1978-1996....

And almost all of them are better than the "killers" from 1996-now.

Number23 said:

I'm confident time will prove The Rainbow Children to his most musically accomplished work over even SOTT.

Oh please. SOTT was a classic from the day it was released and has stayed that way.

TRC is a mediocre melange of jazz/funk/rock coupled with insipied religious nonsense masquerading as "profound" lyrics and a bunch of nasty swipes at people who aren't "worthy". It's almost a decade old, and it's just as stale now as it was when it was released.

purplecam said:

TonyVanDam said:

Well anyone that does NOT make the time to understand the lyrics of their favorite recording artist (Prince OR whoever else) has to be one of the most uneducated MFers that ever called himself/herself a fan of music. Remember, songs are like poems. They are words written to music and/or for music.

But there are some people who don't care about the lyrics when it comes to music. If I went by Prince's lyrics when I was a kid in the 80's, I would have been done with him after I got Lovesexy cause some of the songs confused the shit out of me back then. It was because I loved the groove and I could dance to a lot of the songs, that what made me love him back in the day. If lyrics grab you when it comes to music, fine, but if they don't then fine too, as long as you are feeling it however you feel it, then it's all good and if you don't feel the music/lyrics/both, then it's whatever.

I understand what you're saying is those specific contexts.

But that is NOT what Number23 was saying in his/her post at all. He/she was advocating that people that listen to lyrics in music are not bright (READ: stupid!). THAT kind of attitude, ever as an opinion, does NOT fit well with me at all.

TonyVanDam said:

TonyVanDam said:

I think the problems musically were on-again/off-again since 1994.

Come (1994) -- How many Prince fans actually still rock this album?!?

The Gold Experience (1995) -- Very underrated album that was never given a real chance due to all of the attention that the gangsta style of rap was getting, especially at the height of the controversial east coast VS. west coast era. 2pac was such a media darling around this time. Michael Jackson was also making some noise with his History album. Grunge rock was still in. What more could Prince really do at the time?

Chaos & Disorder (1996) -- Waste album. Prince was so ready to get out of Warner Bros Records at this point.

Emacipation (1996) -- Long before Musicology, THIS was the real comeback album. 3 CDs worth of music that was heavily inspired by Prince's new found freedom, happiness, Mayte, and life after Warner Bros in general! In my dead honesty opinion, THIS was the last great Prince album ever.

Crystal Ball (1998) -- If only this collection had more unreleased material......

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic (1999) -- Not taking too much blame away from Prince, but Clive Davis really did NOT know how to deal with someone that was far more of a control freak than he is. There, I said it.

The Rainbow Children (2001) -- NEXT!!!

In conclusion, the problem was definitely within 1994 - 2001. A transitional period? Maybe.

Good argument, the good albums were ignored and the bad ones got too much attention, but I would add.

Rainbow Children (2001) where Prince expounded his love of the Jehovah Witness cult and his open hatred towards Jews and white peopl, divided his fans, they either loved it or detested it, and the general public ignored it. It really dug his grave further.

One Night Alone (2002) was the long awaited Live album, but was uneven, some excellent tracks were followed by poor ones.

NEWS was all instrumentals and again distanced more fans and had virtually no promotion

The 2003/2004 releases, Xpectation, C note etc were very limited and had poor distribution so many foreign fans missed out and this all but killed in his popularity in markets other than the US hardcore fans and NPGMC members. Even if they contained brilliant work, very few people would hear them.

Musicology (2004) was a step in the right direction, and was a better album, but it suffered from playing it too safe. Whereas it didn't lose fans it didn't convert many either.

3121 (2006) was probably his best album in a decade and had some solid work, but like all his later albums, had little memorability and nothing really innovative on it, it played it too safe

Planet Earth, (2007) was dreadful and way too short, no song titles in the cover and just not as good as his previous two albums. There were some better songs like Guitar and Planet Earth, but then you have Future Baby Mama and Mr Goodnight:-?

Indigo nights/21 Nights,(2008) was a dreadful book/cd vanity project, the CD was flat and the book offered more than vanity photos of Prince cavorting with sexy maids in a hotel.

Last years offering was better, but again was playing it too safe and many indulgent tracks were on the album, songs like Better with Time and Valentina are dross. The Bria Album also was insipid.

Overall my opinion is Prince simply dosen't care anymore, and its been like that since the mid 90s, I think The Gold Experience was the last album he put any heart into.