scandalousalan said:

ernestsewell said:

The thing is, I don't have "great record" expectations for Prince. I never really did. I don't think any fan does.

I understand and agree with everything you said except for the very first part. Based on various reactions and statements to Prince's post 2000 work, it seems that many fans, on this cite and elsewhere, do have "great record" expectations for Prince. Of course, I may be misreading the emotional temperature of the anger and disappointment of many of the posts, but with the constant "this is it?" or "WTF?" or "WTH?" or this song or album "sucks ass" etc. it seems that there is an extremely large gap between what some people expect and what Prince has delivered. To be clear, I am not debating the right of someone to have those expectations even if I don't understand them. Maybe some people are naturally more emotional than others--God knows my uncle is when he's drinking, but I digress. I have never been angered or pissed like a lot of folks here seem to be when there is a Prince song that doesn't move me. In fact, I've never been pissed or angered if I purchased any art--film, book, or song--that did not move me. For me, that is just the nature of art. Yet, even though my notion of art is "not liking some or even a lot of the art created by your favorite artist is just the nature of art," I can understand, even if I don't agree, when someone says that this song sounds "uninspired", or "forced", or "like a man just going through the motions", but I don't understand the next progression or leap to anger because they don't like it.

Considering your good example about the unexpectedness of Prince's pre-1990s work, the unexpectedness of his work was also a sign or element that signified, for lack of a better word/concept, that I would not always like his work, which keeps me for being surprised or disappointed when there is something that I don't like. (I'll admit that while there have been songs that just do not move me, I have yet to hear a Prince album where most of the songs do not entertain me in some way, which may mean that I have low musical standards if I listen to enough people on this site.) Be that as it may, although I loved Around the World in a Day when it was first released, the eclectic nature of it signified to me that "this dude is reaching for the different, and there may come a day when I don't dig that for which he is reaching," even if the problem is that he is not reaching for the different and great as much as he did in the past.

So while I believe that you don't continue to hold great expectations for the next Prince record, the level of anger and rage that I read about someone's disappointment at the latest Prince records seems to be a signifier that many still do hold these great expectations. Again, I'm not saying it is wrong for them to hold these expectations. I just have never understood being angry or pissed off about not liking a piece or work of art, and so I was trying to explore the "great expectation" angle/theory to see if that is the cause of the heightened level of anger. However, this is probably just one of those things that is driven by individual personality and background where people feel how they feel, and it does not matter much whether I understand it or not.

"Prince, if you have a hundred great songs or a thousand, how about picking a few and putting them on your record,

because your last several have sucked."

- Trent Reznor, 2009

Testify.

Klyph said:

I have a friend by the name of Buck Colson. Now of course no one here has ever heard of him, but believe me without a doubt Buck is one of the best bass/war guitar/Chapman stick players you could ever hear, discovered or not. I've seen Buck play everything from odd-time Prog to simple pop to gut-wrenching rock and funk with ease. I've seen him jump in with bands whose music he's never heard or played and sound like he's been with them all his life, like he just knows where the bass is coming from and where it should be going.

The thing is, Buck can't write a song to save his life. Well, I take that back. He can write bass lines when he has to, but as far as writing a complete song, one that he came up with.....no. They sound completely uninspired. Buck is the type of musician that NEEDS someone else to help him create music, to push it out of him.

My point is this. Prince may be growing as a musician, as far being able to do things with instruments that he couldn't do before. But as a song writer he has declined to the point of extreme laughter.

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day and I said some of the same things that Ernest said in his post. Prince made GREAT music when was filled with INNER conflict, when he was fighting his demons or just letting them free. He made GREAT music when he had his muses in the form of W&L. Prince made GOOD music when he had EXTERNAL conflict in the form of WB. Prince's music is LOST when he is at peace through the religion of others. Lovesexy was the only time his religious influences actually fit for me because it was HIS religion.

The last album I bought in physical form was 3121, only because I wanted to see if I would get one of those golden tickets. Before that it was Rave because I had high hopes for it. Before that it was Emancipation. The last album I bought in physical form that I actually felt deserved to be bought in physical form was TGE (and Exodus).

I too used to buy everything Prince related, be it magazines, coasters, posters, bootlegs, etc. I haven't done that in a long time.

Great post.

Rave was the last album I bought. It wasn't a good album, but everything since then has been so much worse.

1725topp said:

ernestsewell said:

The thing is, I don't have "great record" expectations for Prince. I never really did. I don't think any fan does.

I understand and agree with everything you said except for the very first part. Based on various reactions and statements to Prince's post 2000 work, it seems that many fans, on this cite and elsewhere, do have "great record" expectations for Prince. Of course, I may be misreading the emotional temperature of the anger and disappointment of many of the posts, but with the constant "this is it?" or "WTF?" or "WTH?" or this song or album "sucks ass" etc. it seems that there is an extremely large gap between what some people expect and what Prince has delivered. To be clear, I am not debating the right of someone to have those expectations even if I don't understand them. Maybe some people are naturally more emotional than others--God knows my uncle is when he's drinking, but I digress. I have never been angered or pissed like a lot of folks here seem to be when there is a Prince song that doesn't move me. In fact, I've never been pissed or angered if I purchased any art--film, book, or song--that did not move me. For me, that is just the nature of art. Yet, even though my notion of art is "not liking some or even a lot of the art created by your favorite artist is just the nature of art," I can understand, even if I don't agree, when someone says that this song sounds "uninspired", or "forced", or "like a man just going through the motions", but I don't understand the next progression or leap to anger because they don't like it.

Considering your good example about the unexpectedness of Prince's pre-1990s work, the unexpectedness of his work was also a sign or element that signified, for lack of a better word/concept, that I would not always like his work, which keeps me for being surprised or disappointed when there is something that I don't like. (I'll admit that while there have been songs that just do not move me, I have yet to hear a Prince album where most of the songs do not entertain me in some way, which may mean that I have low musical standards if I listen to enough people on this site.) Be that as it may, although I loved Around the World in a Day when it was first released, the eclectic nature of it signified to me that "this dude is reaching for the different, and there may come a day when I don't dig that for which he is reaching," even if the problem is that he is not reaching for the different and great as much as he did in the past.

So while I believe that you don't continue to hold great expectations for the next Prince record, the level of anger and rage that I read about someone's disappointment at the latest Prince records seems to be a signifier that many still do hold these great expectations. Again, I'm not saying it is wrong for them to hold these expectations. I just have never understood being angry or pissed off about not liking a piece or work of art, and so I was trying to explore the "great expectation" angle/theory to see if that is the cause of the heightened level of anger. However, this is probably just one of those things that is driven by individual personality and background where people feel how they feel, and it does not matter much whether I understand it or not.

Multiple great posts my friend.

I think what it boils down to is there once was a time when Prince's music was so cutting edge and inspired, that many of us continue to hope for a "return to form" But a return to form doesn't mean Purple Rain Part II, like so many folks on here think we Prince fans are pining for. I'm not pining for the 80s. I just want an album that has NUMEROUS inspired tracks.

If you poll ten Orgers today, you get ten different opinions on what could be considered "genius" material from Lovesexy and on. But probably everything Lovesexy and before is universally acknowledged as the height of creativity.

There are many folks here who think Lotus was a stink bomb. I happen to like about half of it, but don't consider ANY of it super creative. There are just 5 or 6 songs that are good. No more no less. And for that, I am happy. If the next album was another Lotusflower equivalent, I would happily pay $10 for it and pull it off the shelf every now and again. It certainly wouldn't go into the "genius" pile".

So when you say you are confused by expectations, I think that's what it comes down to for some of us. Prince set the bar extremely high for a 10 to 15 year span and has been spotty at best for the past 15 years. Is the genius still in him? Surely it is. And that's what makes his decision to put songs like Purple and Gold or Hot Summer out disappointing to some of us.

A musical genius should not be releasing music that could be mistaken for Miley Cyrus. I know some of Prince's biggest fans think the Org has too many naysayers and critics. And to a point, I do agree. Folks who say he hasn't put out a good track in 10 to 15 to 20 years but still come out here and post are a strange breed.

But the reality is there are simply some songs in the Prince catalog that are flat out bad. The old Prince would have never put out a litany of mediocre to flat out horrid tracks. And unfortunately Prince has seen fit to do that on multiple occasions over the past decade plus.

Hopefully this windbagging served some purpose towards answering your questions because I enjoyed reading your thoughts....

thedance said:

I used to buy every cd, cd single, vinyl LP, vinyl single, vinyl 12 inch, VHS, Dvd. Everything I could get my hands on. Too bad the singles does not exists anymore....

I still buy every album on cd, but I am not enjoying the music released past 1996, like I used to.

The last masterpiece albums were imo. from the Exodus/ Come / The Gold Experience era in 1994-95.

Prince is still a genius playing live - but I miss the pop-funk-rock music on his albums, where are those Prince rhythms, the grandiose Prince-sound..... ?

IMO.

Totally agree. I LOVE Exodus (well, at least most of it) but he hasn't sounded inspired... or at least inspired in a way I enjoy since he left WB. I don't know if there is a correlation but I haven't connected to any of his music in well over a decade. Maybe I am growing up and away from him. I still respect him. Still say I am a big fan. Still catch an occasional concert (although his Lotus Flower show in L.A. was the worst show I've seen by him ever). He is like an ex that I secretly hope to get back with... but she keeps on doing things to piss me off. lol

Fenwick said:

So when you say you are confused by expectations, I think that's what it comes down to for some of us. Prince set the bar extremely high for a 10 to 15 year span and has been spotty at best for the past 15 years. Is the genius still in him? Surely it is. And that's what makes his decision to put songs like Purple and Gold or Hot Summer out disappointing to some of us.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I am realizing that as we all arrive to the art we love in our own way, we will all have various, personal ways that we engage or experience art, even when we are experiencing the same art. So while I understand what you mean about people having high expectations because Prince has provided such exceptional music for so long, my own notions of art and artists do not allow me to expect anything from an artist’s new work just because I liked his past art. There seems to be for me a difference in me expecting my wife’s next batch of fried chicken to be just as wonderful as the last batch and me expecting a great new work from Prince because he once delivered great work. The difference is that my wife’s chicken is based on an established and well-regulated formula that I don’t want to change whereas the ongoing creation of art is essentially about change and is also greatly influenced by various, unpredictable elements in an artist’s life, such as age, finance, shifting ideals/ideology, and interpersonal relationships. Understanding all of these variables makes it difficult for me to understand why anyone would expect one person’s art to be able to connect with, commune with, and entertain them forever. 1979 – 1989 is one heck of a run; anything else is gravy. To be a one-hit wonder is an amazing feat so a ten-year run is phenomenal. Thus, again, it is difficult for me to be disappointed by “Hot Summer” even if it does not move me; I simply return to something that moves me without the great disappointment or anger. (Also, although I don’t like “Purple and Gold,” it does sound like it is supposed to sound. It is a sports fight song, much like an alma mater. So the fury that people had about that song is another discussion that has been had too many times on this site. But, again, it sounds like it is supposed to sound. If I tell someone that I want to write a traditional slave field song or Negro spiritual, it’s not going to have rock guitar or a hip hop beat. So even with “Purple and Gold” there are these really intriguing expectations that people have of a Prince song even when it is clear that he is writing something for a different genre or form, and the manner in which those expectations drive people into a fury when they don’t get what they want just amazes me.)

Accordingly, to say that Prince is releasing songs today that are just poorly done seems to ignore the notion that he might be pleased with them in the same or similar way that he was pleased with what he was doing in the past (especially if his reasons and drives for making music have changed), and it ignores the notion that there were a few duds on some albums before 1990. Of course, it would not matter for me to mention which songs because as it has been said many times one person’s Lovesexy is another person’s Planet Earth. For example, there are people who call themselves life-long Prince fans who hate "Adore" and think that it is over rated, and I, for the life of me, can’t understand anyone who would feel that way about a song that is clearly in the line of classic R&B/Soul. In the same vein, I don’t hate nor skip "I wonder U" when it plays, but if it was removed from the album I don’t think that I would miss it. The song just never did anything for me, lyrically or musically. "Do U Lie", on the other hand, is a monster groove to me, yet I know those who think that it is secret torture designed by a foreign enemy to drive us all crazy. Thus, "poorly done" or "flat out bad" for me is more about missing or misplaying notes (vocally or with an instrument), poor sound quality, and anything else related to the performing and recording aspects of a song. Just because I may not like it does not mean that I can say that it is “flat out bad.” Of course, I’m not saying that one does not have the right to say it, but it is just not how I define a poor or poorly done song. A lot of people hate The Rainbow Children, and I truly think it is brilliant. A song like “Chelsea Rogers” is considered a retread or poorly done, but it makes me dance. I love Lotusflow3r/MPLS even though it seems to make many others physically ill. So, I don’t know if I can use the phrase “flat out bad” just because I don’t like it. So, when I hear that Prince has spent the last ten to twenty years releasing a “litany of mediocre to flat out horrid tracks” when those albums have kept me dancing, thinking, and feeling, I can only assume that I have low music standards (which includes all of the blues, soul, funk, and rock that I love). Or, it may just be that for me I don’t expect a fifty-two year old man to be in the same place he was twenty years ago nor do I expect him to become some great jazz or blues or rock statesman. Again, I don’t expect any thing. I just purchase a song or record and see what I get.

So, I appreciate your response, but I accept that there are times in life when all of us will be presented with things we will not get or understand. Therefore, along with young men sagging their pants below their butts and people getting multiple tattoos and piercings, I will add the fact that people expect Prince to produce another great album or even solid album just because they liked his work in the past to the list of things that I just don’t understand. Also, I will continue to enjoy what I have liked for the past thirty years while exploring new stuff to see if there is something that I like. I like “Cause and Effect.” I don’t like “Hot Summer,” but I am not disappointed or angered that I don’t like it. I simply add “Cause and Effect” to the songs to which I listen regularly, and place “Hot Summer” in the general music library, where it may sit without another listen. I’m not saying that people don’t have the right to be disappointed and angered when Prince produces something that they don’t like, but it makes no sense to me. Then, again, I don’t understand why reality television is so popular.

One more thing.......

I have never considered Prince to be a genius-level musician. I've always felt he was an extremely multi-talented mult-instrumentalist, but not a genius when it came to any of his instruments. What made Prince a genius to me was his ability to play great as well as write great songs, in addition to his ability to market his image and world in such mysterious, sexy and downright odd ways while still maintaining artistic credibilty and fame. It was the entire package. Great musicians are a dime a dozen. Genius artists are few and far between.

1725topp said:

Fenwick said:

So when you say you are confused by expectations, I think that's what it comes down to for some of us. Prince set the bar extremely high for a 10 to 15 year span and has been spotty at best for the past 15 years. Is the genius still in him? Surely it is. And that's what makes his decision to put songs like Purple and Gold or Hot Summer out disappointing to some of us.

Accordingly, to say that Prince is releasing songs today that are just poorly done seems to ignore the notion that he might be pleased with them in the same or similar way that he was pleased with what he was doing in the past (especially if his reasons and drives for making music have changed), and it ignores the notion that there were a few duds on some albums before 1990. Of course, it would not matter for me to mention which songs because as it has been said many times one person’s Lovesexy is another person’s Planet Earth. For example, there are people who call themselves life-long Prince fans who hate "Adore" and think that it is over rated, and I, for the life of me, can’t understand anyone who would feel that way about a song that is clearly in the line of classic R&B/Soul. In the same vein, I don’t hate nor skip "I wonder U" when it plays, but if it was removed from the album I don’t think that I would miss it. The song just never did anything for me, lyrically or musically. "Do U Lie", on the other hand, is a monster groove to me, yet I know those who think that it is secret torture designed by a foreign enemy to drive us all crazy. Thus, "poorly done" or "flat out bad" for me is more about missing or misplaying notes (vocally or with an instrument), poor sound quality, and anything else related to the performing and recording aspects of a song. Just because I may not like it does not mean that I can say that it is “flat out bad.” Of course, I’m not saying that one does not have the right to say it, but it is just not how I define a poor or poorly done song. A lot of people hate The Rainbow Children, and I truly think it is brilliant. A song like “Chelsea Rogers” is considered a retread or poorly done, but it makes me dance. I love Lotusflow3r/MPLS even though it seems to make many others physically ill. So, I don’t know if I can use the phrase “flat out bad” just because I don’t like it. So, when I hear that Prince has spent the last ten to twenty years releasing a “litany of mediocre to flat out horrid tracks” when those albums have kept me dancing, thinking, and feeling, I can only assume that I have low music standards (which includes all of the blues, soul, funk, and rock that I love). Or, it may just be that for me I don’t expect a fifty-two year old man to be in the same place he was twenty years ago nor do I expect him to become some great jazz or blues or rock statesman. Again, I don’t expect any thing. I just purchase a song or record and see what I get.

So, I appreciate your response, but I accept that there are times in life when all of us will be presented with things we will not get or understand. Therefore, along with young men sagging their pants below their butts and people getting multiple tattoos and piercings, I will add the fact that people expect Prince to produce another great album or even solid album just because they liked his work in the past to the list of things that I just don’t understand. Also, I will continue to enjoy what I have liked for the past thirty years while exploring new stuff to see if there is something that I like. I like “Cause and Effect.” I don’t like “Hot Summer,” but I am not disappointed or angered that I don’t like it. I simply add “Cause and Effect” to the songs to which I listen regularly, and place “Hot Summer” in the general music library, where it may sit without another listen. I’m not saying that people don’t have the right to be disappointed and angered when Prince produces something that they don’t like, but it makes no sense to me. Then, again, I don’t understand why reality television is so popular.

Hey my friend

Great back and forth. As I alluded to before, I agree with your sentiment about folks gettng angry. If we presume that Prince is releasing everything he is, solely because he is "feeling it" at that time, then there's no real reason to get extremely upset about it. Let him do what he wants.

Where I would respectfully disagree is that it is specifically because he has amazed many times over in the past I would have a certain level of expectation for what he would deliver in the present/future. That obviously doesn't mean a track has to resonate with me. I would just expect some MINIMUM level of artisitic integrity to be deployed.

For example, you referenced Rainbow Children. I don't know if there is a single album in his catalog that is more debated. Many think it's pure genius, others think it is worse than rubbish. Kind of like how I feel about Lotus, I'm in the middle. I don't care for some of the lyrical content, but I thoroughly enjoy a handful of the songs. Either way, there is certainly a level of musicianship and artistry there that should be respected.

When it comes to some of the other more recent tracks, for me personally it reeks of someone on auto-pilot. If I feel ike Prince is releasing a song that any novice song writer could come up with in their sleep, I'm sorry, but I'm disappointed. I've said this before, but especially as it relates to the context of an entire body of work. In other words, if Hot Summer was the "fun" track placed in the middle of an album filled with inspired/creative material, it would make it easier (for me) to rally around it and try to see it for what it is. But when it is released on its' own, and Prince hasn't exactly been releasing creative material for quite a while, it's easier (again for me) to look at it and say, "wow, this is what he's reduced to now huh".

I obviously mean no offense to Prince or anyone out here when I say this, but if you interchanged Britney Spears or Miley Cyrus or someone from American Idol's voice with Prince's and put that Hot Summer song out, it would be summarily dragged through the mud by any "intelligent" music listener as another formula in the pop machine.

At the end of the day, I think we probably agree a heck of a lot more than we disagree on our feelings for Prince and other artists like him who have aged and are putting out material that is not universally accepted/acknowledged as stellar. I keep supporting his music beause he has earned that respect from me. I admit I still carry an expectation when I buy his records, and more times than not lately it has not been met. It doesn't make me upset/angry, but is disappointing. It makes me continue to hold out hope that inspiration will find him again soon.

Peace my friend.

1725topp said:

Fenwick said:

So when you say you are confused by expectations, I think that's what it comes down to for some of us. Prince set the bar extremely high for a 10 to 15 year span and has been spotty at best for the past 15 years. Is the genius still in him? Surely it is. And that's what makes his decision to put songs like Purple and Gold or Hot Summer out disappointing to some of us.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I am realizing that as we all arrive to the art we love in our own way, we will all have various, personal ways that we engage or experience art, even when we are experiencing the same art. So while I understand what you mean about people having high expectations because Prince has provided such exceptional music for so long, my own notions of art and artists do not allow me to expect anything from an artist’s new work just because I liked his past art. There seems to be for me a difference in me expecting my wife’s next batch of fried chicken to be just as wonderful as the last batch and me expecting a great new work from Prince because he once delivered great work. The difference is that my wife’s chicken is based on an established and well-regulated formula that I don’t want to change whereas the ongoing creation of art is essentially about change and is also greatly influenced by various, unpredictable elements in an artist’s life, such as age, finance, shifting ideals/ideology, and interpersonal relationships. Understanding all of these variables makes it difficult for me to understand why anyone would expect one person’s art to be able to connect with, commune with, and entertain them forever. 1979 – 1989 is one heck of a run; anything else is gravy. To be a one-hit wonder is an amazing feat so a ten-year run is phenomenal. Thus, again, it is difficult for me to be disappointed by “Hot Summer” even if it does not move me; I simply return to something that moves me without the great disappointment or anger. (Also, although I don’t like “Purple and Gold,” it does sound like it is supposed to sound. It is a sports fight song, much like an alma mater. So the fury that people had about that song is another discussion that has been had too many times on this site. But, again, it sounds like it is supposed to sound. If I tell someone that I want to write a traditional slave field song or Negro spiritual, it’s not going to have rock guitar or a hip hop beat. So even with “Purple and Gold” there are these really intriguing expectations that people have of a Prince song even when it is clear that he is writing something for a different genre or form, and the manner in which those expectations drive people into a fury when they don’t get what they want just amazes me.)

Accordingly, to say that Prince is releasing songs today that are just poorly done seems to ignore the notion that he might be pleased with them in the same or similar way that he was pleased with what he was doing in the past (especially if his reasons and drives for making music have changed), and it ignores the notion that there were a few duds on some albums before 1990. Of course, it would not matter for me to mention which songs because as it has been said many times one person’s Lovesexy is another person’s Planet Earth. For example, there are people who call themselves life-long Prince fans who hate "Adore" and think that it is over rated, and I, for the life of me, can’t understand anyone who would feel that way about a song that is clearly in the line of classic R&B/Soul. In the same vein, I don’t hate nor skip "I wonder U" when it plays, but if it was removed from the album I don’t think that I would miss it. The song just never did anything for me, lyrically or musically. "Do U Lie", on the other hand, is a monster groove to me, yet I know those who think that it is secret torture designed by a foreign enemy to drive us all crazy. Thus, "poorly done" or "flat out bad" for me is more about missing or misplaying notes (vocally or with an instrument), poor sound quality, and anything else related to the performing and recording aspects of a song. Just because I may not like it does not mean that I can say that it is “flat out bad.” Of course, I’m not saying that one does not have the right to say it, but it is just not how I define a poor or poorly done song. A lot of people hate The Rainbow Children, and I truly think it is brilliant. A song like “Chelsea Rogers” is considered a retread or poorly done, but it makes me dance. I love Lotusflow3r/MPLS even though it seems to make many others physically ill. So, I don’t know if I can use the phrase “flat out bad” just because I don’t like it. So, when I hear that Prince has spent the last ten to twenty years releasing a “litany of mediocre to flat out horrid tracks” when those albums have kept me dancing, thinking, and feeling, I can only assume that I have low music standards (which includes all of the blues, soul, funk, and rock that I love). Or, it may just be that for me I don’t expect a fifty-two year old man to be in the same place he was twenty years ago nor do I expect him to become some great jazz or blues or rock statesman. Again, I don’t expect any thing. I just purchase a song or record and see what I get.

So, I appreciate your response, but I accept that there are times in life when all of us will be presented with things we will not get or understand. Therefore, along with young men sagging their pants below their butts and people getting multiple tattoos and piercings, I will add the fact that people expect Prince to produce another great album or even solid album just because they liked his work in the past to the list of things that I just don’t understand. Also, I will continue to enjoy what I have liked for the past thirty years while exploring new stuff to see if there is something that I like. I like “Cause and Effect.” I don’t like “Hot Summer,” but I am not disappointed or angered that I don’t like it. I simply add “Cause and Effect” to the songs to which I listen regularly, and place “Hot Summer” in the general music library, where it may sit without another listen. I’m not saying that people don’t have the right to be disappointed and angered when Prince produces something that they don’t like, but it makes no sense to me. Then, again, I don’t understand why reality television is so popular.

i have to say u have excellant critical thinking skills. U have pretty much said all the things I have been saying on here for years. U just say it better lol.

he's still making great music .not everything from the 80's was that great .there were also less genius song then .the gold experience ,emancipation,rainbowchildren,3121 and lotusflower are great albums .and the other albums like musicology and planet earth are maybe not that great but they have real classics on it .dear mister man ,planet earth ,reflection,call my name ....

and you forget that this man have created more then 1000 songs so its not that easy to come with something new or groundbreaking when everything already has been done. live he's still the greatest . most of fans here are getting older like me and keep living in the past .

the only thing i miss about him is PRINCE THE REBEL .that raw sound like the cross and the days of wild and many more .

Giovanni777 said:

I know I'm in a tight minority here, but Prince's musical skills have all continued 2 grow, 2 my ears.

'Planet Earth' was bashed over and over here on the Org, but it had some incredible material. "Mr Goodnight" was the only weak track, in my opinion.

'Lotusflow3r' is not only a strong album, with perfect sequence of songs, it shows musical elements Prince never showed previously, on record, or otherwise.

He's gone back and forth, from raw, simple instrumentation, 2 pounding electronic jams, with the guitar right up there in the mix on most occasions. He's used many different melodies with his voice.

I was baffled how Prince fans can't appreciate his current output, until I realized that this is a normal occurrance in any form of Art. An artist's current creations will always be compared 2 his/her past creations. The only thing that's not normal, and happens very rarely in pop culture, is Prince's duration and prolific output. Since, as an artist, he insists on living in the Now, his art reflects this, so the listener must also live in the Now (listen objectively 2 what U hear without any preconception, nor expectation).

Let me just end this by reiterating my first line...

Prince's musical skills R far more developed now then they ever were.

~G

.

[Edited 6/23/10 6:54am]

I coul not have said it better. Prince's development - going into the 4th decade of his career - is nothing short of fantastic. THose who truly understand and appreciate music - not record sales or media exposure or popularity - and what is necessary to construct great music can see how Prince has moved constantly and managed to grow every year that we have known who he was.

is paul mccartney?

is elton john?

is bob dylan?

is sly stone?

is eric clapton?

Fenwick said:

I obviously mean no offense to Prince or anyone out here when I say this, but if you interchanged Britney Spears or Miley Cyrus or someone from American Idol's voice with Prince's and put that Hot Summer song out, it would be summarily dragged through the mud by any "intelligent" music listener as another formula in the pop machine.

At the end of the day, I think we probably agree a heck of a lot more than we disagree on our feelings for Prince and other artists like him who have aged and are putting out material that is not universally accepted/acknowledged as stellar. I keep supporting his music beause he has earned that respect from me. I admit I still carry an expectation when I buy his records, and more times than not lately it has not been met. It doesn't make me upset/angry, but is disappointing. It makes me continue to hold out hope that inspiration will find him again soon.

Peace my friend.

I don't think that you are being "offensive" in what you say about how "Hot Summer" summer would be treated if it were released by someone other than Prince. I would only say that since I understand the purpose of the "pop formula machines," especially in the audience they are trying to reach, I just avoid the art produced by the "pop formula machines" rather than discussing them. Though, I will admit that I'm sure that I've purchased more than a few of the cotton-candy fluff from that machine so I can't be too dismissive of it. Most of us have eaten cotton-candy at least once either at the zoo or the fair.

You are right that we probably agree more than we disagree, and that we were able to have this ongoing discussion without calling each other names is most rewarding. Believe it or not, I still have this "expectation" or "presumption" that Prince fans are more objective and civil that other music listners. Clearly, based on a lot of what is posted here, we are not. But, this discourse with you as well as with a few others affirms why I would like to continue to remain a member of Prince.org. I can disagree with you and learn something simultaneously. Take care.

tricky99 said:

i have to say u have excellant critical thinking skills. U have pretty much said all the things I have been saying on here for years. U just say it better lol.

Thank you very much for those kind words. And I like the ideas that you often bring to the table. Take care.

The last cd I bought was LotusFlow3r. Actually, I bought two as per my custom. I still buy everything he records, because I know whether there is one or two songs that are genius, it's worth it. When I go back and listen to Planet Earth, I like it more than when I first bought it. Same thing with 3121.

As far as genius goes: it is easy to criticise Prince now for those who are waiting for him to release another Purple Rain. He is in a different place, both spiritually and musically. People have a right not to like the new music. Hot Summer is classic Prince to me. It is fun and funky, and I like it. Cause and Effect is different, but as a poet myself, I listen to the message behind the guitar!

I think that if Prince was, in his own words, the Prince of the 80's, he could record that same type of music. He chooses not to do that. He is on another path in his life now, and is everchanging. That is what I have always admired about thie enigma.

For me, and perhaps Only for me, I can not listen to the radio stations anymore because I can't stand the music they play now. Justin Beiber? Lady Gaga? P Diddy or whatever his name is now? and Kanye West?? I just don't see them as talented. Once again: MY Opinion.

Now, Alicia Keys and that woman who played "If I was Your Girlfriend" on BET, those ladies are talented as heck! I will not respond to anyone who jumps on what I have just written. Please understand this is an opinion, as I respect your opinion to say Hot Summer is "junk". LightLovePeace.

Although many of the more serious contributors to this post not surprisingly agreed on the better part of their opinion, which made the debate fairly mild and short, I just want to add that I really enjoyed reading a post in which the mayority of the contributions were so insightfull, intelligent and courteous - especially given the topic.

Art is meant to provoke emotions, and those emotions naturally are influenced by personal experiences of different people. When you publish a work of art, you give it to people who wil give it their own personal meaning, value and place.

The line between as objectively as possible discussing the work of art by itself and discussing the emotions it provoked is very thin, and it is in this dim area where only the brighter minds shine enough to shed their light on something interesting.

Thank you all for doing that, you know who you are. If only we could have that a little more often here on the org...

Peace to all

P.S. Keep the sarcasm alive, though...

[Edited 7/8/10 12:29pm]

I knew I had already heard of an album entitled 20Ten by someone else. The info is this:

Artist: Bryan Art

Album: Bryan Art 20ten

© 2010

Hope there is no legal problems with the same title!

GuardianAngel said:

Although many of the more serious contributors to this post not surprisingly agreed on the better part of their opinion, which made the debate fairly mild and short, I just want to add that I really enjoyed reading a post in which the mayority of the contributions were so insightfull, intelligent and courteous - especially given the topic.

Art is meant to provoke emotions, and those emotions naturally are influenced by personal experiences of different people. When you publish a work of art, you give it to people who wil give it their own personal meaning, value and place.

The line between as objectively as possible discussing the work of art by itself and discussing the emotions it provoked it very thin, and it is in this dim area where only the brighter minds shine enough to shed their light on something interesting.

Thank you all for doing that, you know who you are. If only we could have that a little more often here on the org...

Peace to all

P.S. Keep the sarcasm alive, though...

& this ladies and gentlemen is the REASON I started this thread, thaks GuardianAngel for posting ...