McD said:

1978 – 1982: Massive talent, good recording artist, potential for true greatness

1983 – 1996: Musical genius, the world’s #1 recording artist

1997 – 2003: Past his peak, still one of the best & capable of greatness now and then (Radiohead snatch his #1 Recording Artist title around ‘97)

2004 – 2010: Could no longer feature in a list of greatest current recording artists, unless it was really exhaustive. Totally burnt out as a songwriter, studio skills more or less wasted. Still a live force however.

Your number 4 is totally ridiculous. Prince is in no way burnt out as a songwriter.

ernestsewell said:

midiscover said:

No, he's still a musical genius, IMHO. Besides I didn't know his 'genius' would disappear when he releases music that isn't up to par as his past work Some of you need to get over the fact that his music won't be the same as it used to be. It happens with EVERY artist.

Prince needs to be challenged again. He has no rough surface on which to walk barefoot. He has no real inspiration. What is his muse? Bria? We saw that last year. Larry? We saw that in 2001.

I believe he's still a genius with his music. But we've just not seen that genius come out lately. He's on auto-pilot a lot lately. I also believe he still has another great album in him. I just hope I see it before either of us are too old to give a crap.

& I'm agreein' yet again with my man Ernest on this right here ... [img:$uid]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/113.gif[/img:$uid] Keep in consideration that every album that comes out, I buy and I always find something within it (on it) that I love and some, not so much ...

I illegally download all of his new music. The last one that was paid for was Musicology.

I have been a "hardcore" fan since 88. I heard him in Idrætparken - Copenhagen. Something new happened to me. I started playing drums when I was 3 years old, stopped playing when I was about 14. My father and mother are still playing music. My mom said to me in 90, that I should see PR. Something happened again. A week later I got a guitar.(Still playing).

I have all the albums, and allways hope that something new is going to happen again.

To me, Colonized mind is a masterpiece track.

The music on TRC is amazing.

Ernest, I think you are right about every thing.

This thread

TheEnglishGent said:

I don't think he's lost anything. For me Lotus is as good as any album he's done, easily in the top 5, maybe even my favourite. I'm still regularly listening to it, even spun it twice today. The Rainbow Children was amazing. Chocolate Box aside, MPLSound is pretty solid with a few stand out tracks. I still listen to Planet Earth and only skip Chelsea Rodgers, its another great album. For me the 00's were a great decade for prince, with Musicology being the only album I don't particularly care for. I certainly feel ther were more strong albums in the 00's than in the 90's. He's still a genius in my book.

Well said..he's one of the few we have left. x

I have to say that LF was great [the other 2 discs were awful!], whilst he didn't say or play anything really new he seemed relaxed, a bit more adventurous, the guitars and drums rocked harder than usual and I could play it over and over. So we live in hope although 2010 sux a big 1 so far!

sexymfdeb said:

TheEnglishGent said:

I don't think he's lost anything. For me Lotus is as good as any album he's done, easily in the top 5, maybe even my favourite. I'm still regularly listening to it, even spun it twice today. The Rainbow Children was amazing. Chocolate Box aside, MPLSound is pretty solid with a few stand out tracks. I still listen to Planet Earth and only skip Chelsea Rodgers, its another great album. For me the 00's were a great decade for prince, with Musicology being the only album I don't particularly care for. I certainly feel ther were more strong albums in the 00's than in the 90's. He's still a genius in my book.

Well said..he's one of the few we have left. x

Hey Deb, how's things?

Giovanni777 said:

I know I'm in a tight minority here, but Prince's musical skills have all continued 2 grow, 2 my ears.

'Planet Earth' was bashed over and over here on the Org, but it had some incredible material. "Mr Goodnight" was the only weak track, in my opinion.

'Lotusflow3r' is not only a strong album, with perfect sequence of songs, it shows musical elements Prince never showed previously, on record, or otherwise.

He's gone back and forth, from raw, simple instrumentation, 2 pounding electronic jams, with the guitar right up there in the mix on most occasions. He's used many different melodies with his voice.

I was baffled how Prince fans can't appreciate his current output, until I realized that this is a normal occurrance in any form of Art. An artist's current creations will always be compared 2 his/her past creations. The only thing that's not normal, and happens very rarely in pop culture, is Prince's duration and prolific output. Since, as an artist, he insists on living in the Now, his art reflects this, so the listener must also live in the Now (listen objectively 2 what U hear without any preconception, nor expectation).

Let me just end this by reiterating my first line...

Prince's musical skills R far more developed now then they ever were.

~G

.

[Edited 6/23/10 6:54am]

Yeah, I liked Planet Earth too (I actually like Mr. Goodnight). I was a bit surprised by the bashing... I really liked the organic sounds... Also Kamasutra really gets bashed a lot... but I dig it.

A lot of Prince songs that I disliked years back... I listen to them now, and I find myself enjoying them today.

I like the variety that Prince provides... music that I enjoy changes day to day according to my mood... and Prince has music for every mood...

The only thing that to me that I haven't liked... and I'm confident I won't ever like in the future, is the rap/hip-hop stuff he was doing in the 90s... the stuff like in Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol...

JoeTyler said:

This thread

The point of this thread JT was me asking the prince.org family what was the last album they bought by Prince and if they would still continue to buy his albums and perhaps go to his concerts. We all come together and talk about what's going on with his career, the direction of the lyrics and some of us love the direction and some of us believe or think he's "lost it" and he's got his record making skills on "cruise control" as I've heard some memebers call it.

Thanks to everyone that posted something productive and thought provoking ... *bows*

daPrettyman said:

Hmmm... Well maybe U think that prince isnt a musical genius. yeah of course he is not what he used 2 be but that's okay. if u look at the industry now alot people cant do alot of the shit on they're own meaning producing, composing,etc. he's been doing that over the last 30+ years.

Giovanni777 said:

I know I'm in a tight minority here, but Prince's musical skills have all continued 2 grow, 2 my ears.

'Planet Earth' was bashed over and over here on the Org, but it had some incredible material. "Mr Goodnight" was the only weak track, in my opinion.

'Lotusflow3r' is not only a strong album, with perfect sequence of songs, it shows musical elements Prince never showed previously, on record, or otherwise.

He's gone back and forth, from raw, simple instrumentation, 2 pounding electronic jams, with the guitar right up there in the mix on most occasions. He's used many different melodies with his voice.

I was baffled how Prince fans can't appreciate his current output, until I realized that this is a normal occurrance in any form of Art. An artist's current creations will always be compared 2 his/her past creations. The only thing that's not normal, and happens very rarely in pop culture, is Prince's duration and prolific output. Since, as an artist, he insists on living in the Now, his art reflects this, so the listener must also live in the Now (listen objectively 2 what U hear without any preconception, nor expectation).

Let me just end this by reiterating my first line...

Prince's musical skills R far more developed now then they ever were.

~G

.

[Edited 6/23/10 6:54am]

I have a friend by the name of Buck Colson. Now of course no one here has ever heard of him, but believe me without a doubt Buck is one of the best bass/war guitar/Chapman stick players you could ever hear, discovered or not. I've seen Buck play everything from odd-time Prog to simple pop to gut-wrenching rock and funk with ease. I've seen him jump in with bands whose music he's never heard or played and sound like he's been with them all his life, like he just knows where the bass is coming from and where it should be going.

The thing is, Buck can't write a song to save his life. Well, I take that back. He can write bass lines when he has to, but as far as writing a complete song, one that he came up with.....no. They sound completely uninspired. Buck is the type of musician that NEEDS someone else to help him create music, to push it out of him.

My point is this. Prince may be growing as a musician, as far being able to do things with instruments that he couldn't do before. But as a song writer he has declined to the point of extreme laughter.

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day and I said some of the same things that Ernest said in his post. Prince made GREAT music when was filled with INNER conflict, when he was fighting his demons or just letting them free. He made GREAT music when he had his muses in the form of W&L. Prince made GOOD music when he had EXTERNAL conflict in the form of WB. Prince's music is LOST when he is at peace through the religion of others. Lovesexy was the only time his religious influences actually fit for me because it was HIS religion.

The last album I bought in physical form was 3121, only because I wanted to see if I would get one of those golden tickets. Before that it was Rave because I had high hopes for it. Before that it was Emancipation. The last album I bought in physical form that I actually felt deserved to be bought in physical form was TGE (and Exodus).

I too used to buy everything Prince related, be it magazines, coasters, posters, bootlegs, etc. I haven't done that in a long time.

fambam93 said:

daPrettyman said:

She's only 16. Don't knock her for being a newbie.

thanks but I'm not a newbie. I've been a fan since I was a toddler and I have 23 of his albums. Not to mention, I probably have more of a connection to him than 90% of the people on here..I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but why post something trying to humiliate someone if you don't even know who they are or any background information on them. [Edited 6/26/10 13:18pm]

Wait....I thought it was MJ that liked to sleep in the bed with his young fans!!! lol J/K

Klyph said:

fambam93 said:

Klyph said:

Wait....I thought it was MJ that liked to sleep in the bed with his young fans!!! lol J/K

who do you think you are? I know you said just kidding, but that's extremely disrespectful..not only to me but to both mj and prince.

I'm sorry........I forgot little girls have sensitive ears and emotions. I'm sorry if MJ has some sort of link to prince.org from the grave and I hurt his feelings. And I'm sure Prince can take a joke (I mean, he DID release Purple and Gold).

Seriously, take some Ativan or something and CHILL OUT!

Giovanni777 said:

I was baffled how Prince fans can't appreciate his current output, until I realized that this is a normal occurrance in any form of Art. An artist's current creations will always be compared 2 his/her past creations. The only thing that's not normal, and happens very rarely in pop culture, is Prince's duration and prolific output. Since, as an artist, he insists on living in the Now, his art reflects this, so the listener must also live in the Now (listen objectively 2 what U hear without any preconception, nor expectation).

Well, this is most verily true for those who have been fans for a long period of time; however, even most new, younger fans (including myself) who are able to approach his entire catalogue in the same time period tend to appreciate his earlier output far more than recent excursions.

[Edited 6/26/10 14:09pm]

Klyph said:

ernestsewell said:

funkyfine said:

Incidentally, this summer build up to a new album seems to have disappeared already. The great giveaway that never was.

Who EVER said there was going to be a giveaway? All those "CD in the magazine" rumors were just that - RUMORS. No one from Ebony, or Prince's camp, ever said there was going to be an album, a single, or otherwise in the June issue of Ebony. Fans started that craze, and no one said otherwise.

Prince's camp, to my knowledge, has never mentioned any other summer giveaway either. Folks can't hang their hopes on falsehoods, then bitch when it actually doesn't come to pass.

No one's said anything about a new album either. Rumors for September? Sure, but solid fact yet? I've not heard it.

Weird reading this now...

PurpleLove7 said:

Question ...

For the people/former fans who feels Prince's musical gifts (genius) have been exhasted:

What is the last album you bought of Prince's?

[img:$uid]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif[/img:$uid]

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

Rave un2 the noise whacktastic is more like it.....

NobodyUknow said:

fambam93 said:

Klyph said:

I'm sorry........I forgot little girls have sensitive ears and emotions. I'm sorry if MJ has some sort of link to prince.org from the grave and I hurt his feelings. And I'm sure Prince can take a joke (I mean, he DID release Purple and Gold).

Seriously, take some Ativan or something and CHILL OUT!

I'm not even that upset about it..I just think you should know that even if your joking around, nobody should be treated like that..whether they are deceased or read your post or not..I may not be the one to be hurt by your comments but you should know that you have the abilty to hurt people and some might not be as nice as I was. [Edited 6/26/10 14:14pm]

Wow! Comedy is lost on today's generation, methinks! MJ has the deadternet and saw that post from Klyph, and even he laughed at it. so everybody chill!

But to answer the question at hand...I thnk he's still a genius based on his musical prowess on the instruments, but there's no FIRE behind his playing. He's definitely lost it (the genius title) when it comes to songwriting! Shit, as a producer he's no longer the innovator or "genius" he once was, and hasn't been for almost 2 decades now.

ernestsewell said:

I'm kind of with TheDance on this one. His last great, I mean TRULY great records with inspiration - angst - swagger- machismo - and a wad of ear jism - was The Exodus Has Begun and The Gold Experience.

It's pure hit and miss since then. Why were those his last great albums? Because Prince works best when there's someone challenging him, whether it's a girlfriend, or a record company, or his own conscience. None of that exists now. His music has suffered from it. His muses are gone. He's just bragging these days, and resting on his laurals, and not offering anything truly unique and new. You could maybe make one good 80-minute CD from the material of the past 12 years, from Rave through Lotusflow3r.

Is he still a genius? Sure, but geniuses work from something, too. They see blue, and they make it fire. They see glass, and make it into a skyscraper. Prince is seeing the New World Translation, Larry's ball sack, and all those awards on the walls of Paisley Park he claims to not care about winning in the first place. He's still giving his latest girlfriend her own album, and doing a bunch of nothing. Oh, well he is preaching a lot, as he fancies himself a musical prophet with some great inner knowledge of things that he has no idea about - to the extent that he should be acting like a teacher.

In concert, the man still can't be beat. No doubt about that. I don't want to hear "Little Red Corvette" on record over and over, but live? Sure, bring it on!

Oh, I'll still buy his records, always holding onto that little part in the back of my head that says, "Maybe this will be the next great record that will put the past in its chair."

So far though....not so much.

Great post, so very true. And the frusttration about this amongst some of us only too often poisons some of the postst here... I guess less intersting music makes for less intersting discussions, and many of us who used to be hip because we were "conaisseurs" about the great mistery musical genius now are left most empty handed and frustrated... if only P could me mused by that...

ernestsewell said:

I'm kind of with TheDance on this one. His last great, I mean TRULY great records with inspiration - angst - swagger- machismo - and a wad of ear jism - was The Exodus Has Begun and The Gold Experience.

It's pure hit and miss since then. Why were those his last great albums? Because Prince works best when there's someone challenging him, whether it's a girlfriend, or a record company, or his own conscience. None of that exists now. His music has suffered from it. His muses are gone. He's just bragging these days, and resting on his laurals, and not offering anything truly unique and new. You could maybe make one good 80-minute CD from the material of the past 12 years, from Rave through Lotusflow3r.

Is he still a genius? Sure, but geniuses work from something, too. They see blue, and they make it fire. They see glass, and make it into a skyscraper. Prince is seeing the New World Translation, Larry's ball sack, and all those awards on the walls of Paisley Park he claims to not care about winning in the first place. He's still giving his latest girlfriend her own album, and doing a bunch of nothing. Oh, well he is preaching a lot, as he fancies himself a musical prophet with some great inner knowledge of things that he has no idea about - to the extent that he should be acting like a teacher.

In concert, the man still can't be beat. No doubt about that. I don't want to hear "Little Red Corvette" on record over and over, but live? Sure, bring it on!

Oh, I'll still buy his records, always holding onto that little part in the back of my head that says, "Maybe this will be the next great record that will put the past in its chair."

So far though....not so much.

You are objective and balanced as always. So, my question is: How much of the disappointment that many have with his latest (post 2000) efforts has to do with the work, itself, and how much of the disappointment has to do with the expectation of a "great record"? And, I don't mean to infer that a gawd awful record isn't just gawd awful, regardless of expectation, but can that expectation of a great record cause a good record to be disappointing and a fair or average record to be perceived as gawd awful?

I've found that having no expectations other than the fact that in the past he has done something that moved or interested me so I'll just wait to see what the next project is or does. So, for me, "Cause and Effect" was a pretty solid record (I'll admit that the preaching of the past ten years does not bother me like it does others, and I like the mixture of sounds on that record) whereas "Hot Summer" is, at best, unmemorable, but I'm not bothered by it being unmemorable because I did not have any expectations. Or to put it another way, I enjoy what I have in my Prince collection, and anything else is gravy, and if I get nothing else then I continue to listen to what I have. It seems that this approach keeps me from being overly disappointed by a record that does not touch me like Dirty Mind or SOTT though I do love Lotusflow3r/MPLS. Accordingly, I wonder if that expectation is what drives so many, not you, to be so greatly disappointed and, even, angry about a new song that they do not like. And maybe this is me being more of an artist than just a receiver of art, but I just don't understand how or why someone can be angry or pissed off because they don't like the work of their favorite artist or that their favorite artist may be no longer inspired. (These are not your words, but I'm just linking your notion about expectation.) It just seems to me that since the love of any art or artist is as much a subjective thing as it is about talent and skill (We all know some artist or some work that we think is brilliant and are amazed that more people aren't engaged or pleased by it.), that it would be a given--a natural fact of life--that one will not love all of the art created by their favorite artist and that eventually all of us, even our favorite artists, run out of ideas. Thus, I've always wondered about the role that high expectations play in how audiences receive new work from their favorite artists.

Oh yeah, as for the topic question, if genius means doing something that no one has ever done or combining things in ways that no one has ever done or having one's work change the course, style, or direction of one's field, then I'd have to say that the last genius Prince album that I purchased is Lovesexy. However, much of Prince's work after 1988 has been unable to have a major impact on the field because he caused or allowed his perceived personal insanity to overshadow the coverage of his music so albums like Chaos and Disorder and The Rainbow Children had less impact because he was no longer the darling of the industry or was considered some old, weird, washed-up freak. (How we perceived people does affect how we received their work. As Miles Davis said: "Prince can say 'I want to fuck you', and people think it's cute; I say it, and somebody calls the police." If we were really honest, we would admit that there are folks on this cite--black and white--who think that Prince caters too much to the other racial side, which affects how they feel about his music.) I think there is genius on Musicology and Lotusflow3r/MPLS even if I can't say that they are complete works of genius. So, being as objective as I can, I'd say that Lovesexy is the last completely genius work that Prince produced, but he has also released later work that have examples or moments of genius on them.

1725topp said:

I've found that having no expectations other than the fact that in the past he has done something that moved or interested me so I'll just wait to see what the next project is or does. So, for me, "Cause and Effect" was a pretty solid record (I'll admit that the preaching of the past ten years does not bother me like it does others, and I like the mixture of sounds on that record) whereas "Hot Summer" is, at best, unmemorable, but I'm not bothered by it being unmemorable because I did not have any expectations. Or to put it another way, I enjoy what I have in my Prince collection, and anything else is gravy, and if I get nothing else then I continue to listen to what I have. It seems that this approach keeps me from being overly disappointed by a record that does not touch me like Dirty Mind or SOTT though I do love Lotusflow3r/MPLS. Accordingly, I wonder if that expectation is what drives so many, not you, to be so greatly disappointed and, even, angry about a new song that they do not like. And maybe this is me being more of an artist than just a receiver of art, but I just don't understand how or why someone can be angry or pissed off because they don't like the work of their favorite artist or that their favorite artist may be no longer inspired. (These are not your words, but I'm just linking your notion about expectation.) It just seems to me that since the love of any art or artist is as much a subjective thing as it is about talent and skill (We all know some artist or some work that we think is brilliant and are amazed that more people aren't engaged or pleased by it.), that it would be a given--a natural fact of life--that one will not love all of the art created by their favorite artist and that eventually all of us, even our favorite artists, run out of ideas. Thus, I've always wondered about the role that high expectations play in how audiences receive new work from their favorite artists.

Theoretically true, but it was Prince himself who deliberatly played a great active part in making me always expect the best of one's abilities... thus greatly disturbing my Zen-mode when awaiting new music...

GuardianAngel said:

Theoretically true, but it was Prince himself who deliberatly played a great active part in making me always expect the best of one's abilities... thus greatly disturbing my Zen-mode when awaiting new music...

That is a very good point, and I'll only add that being in high school and reading the Rolling Stone article where Prince discussed that when his friends were partying and sleeping, he was working; when they awoke, he had another groove. But even Bill Russell and Michael Jordan eventually have no more championships left in them. The great or sad thing about the production of art, in contrast to other more physically demanding skills or activities, is that one can keep working or producing art skillfully for a longer time even if the product of that skill is not as inspired as their former work. It seems obvious that Prince is a much better guitar player today than thirty years ago even if what he currently creates may lack the passion of the past. (Though, "Colonized Mind" sounds very passionate and inspired to me.) Very few people remain as inspired or pissed off or zealous about their agenda past the age of 45. And, if nothing else, their focus shifts to other things--often things that seem to be the very antithesis of their early work.

Also, the thing about genius and greatness is that there has yet to be any one person in any field whose entire career is held as an example of greatness. So rather than focusing on the person when we teach greatness, we often focus on the work--the one or two novels or poetry collections or painting series or building designs. Very few, if any one, have the legacy of every novel or painting or building being considered genius. Thus, the Zen-mode may be best maintained by meditating on or with the greatness/beauty that we have rather than interrupting or waging it on expected greatness/beauty. Great baseball hitters are successful only thirty percent of the time. Great basketball shooters are successful only forty-five percent of the time. Serenity is achieved when we have the wisdom to find the pebble of man's beauty on the beach of his failures.

(I should write cards for Hallmark’s hood series.)

Prince has always been a genius, but his problem is he dosen't want to show it at all, his latest music is treading water and it all sounds the same. He has had some good songs like Dreamer and Colonized mind, but if want quality Prince, I dig out the albums from Dirty Mind to Lovesexy, later ones just don't have the memorability. I was over Black sweat in 2007, but International Lover and Forever in My life I could never tire of, why because those songs were the work of a genius. Black Sweat was the work of a man trying to recapture his prime.

1725topp said:

You are objective and balanced as always. So, my question is: How much of the disappointment that many have with his latest (post 2000) efforts has to do with the work, itself, and how much of the disappointment has to do with the expectation of a "great record"? And, I don't mean to infer that a gawd awful record isn't just gawd awful, regardless of expectation, but can that expectation of a great record cause a good record to be disappointing and a fair or average record to be perceived as gawd awful?

The thing is, I don't have "great record" expectations for Prince. I never really did. I don't think any fan does.

I think any of us that have been long time fans were more excited based solely on the fact that Prince's new record that year was coming out. None of us knew what to expect from one record to the next, and that was the fun of it. You might have heard one song on the radio, but it still wasn't always indicative of what was to come on the album. "When Doves Cry" was sparse, weird, and catchy. But it didn't represent "Let's Go Crazy", "Purple Rain", or "Computer Blue" in any sense. "Rasperry Beret" - fun little pop tune, but differed greatly from "Condition of the Heart", "Tambourine", "Temptation", and "The Ladder". "Kiss" sticks out like a sore, but funky, thumb on the Parade album. One should also note that hindsight is 20/20 and now those songs make perfect sense in the course of the album, but at the time when it came out, it didn't. It's like tasting one ingredient in a dish that hasn't been served up yet - put a bowl of corn syrup in front of us, but I'd rather have a slice of the pecan pie itself.

Having said all that, it was the unexpectedness of an album that drew fans in over and over again (plus bonus stuff like b-sides, and performances - there was no YouTube capturing stuff with cell phones; you either saw it on TV, or you didn't see it at all.) However, since the very late 90's, the expectational awareness of Prince releases has dropped dramatically. The material has suffered, and the presumtive nature of the forth-coming albums has suffered in a proporational decline.

So for me, I'm not contemplating the next great Prince album will be the next one on the shelves of Costco. Of course I hope that one day it shows up unexpectedly and blows me out of the water, but so far, there's barely a ripple in the pond of Prince music. Unfortunately, I don't expect much from him these days, and to that end, he lives up to the standard perfectly.