I'm 19, & even though there's no denying his 80s & 90s music is his best work, more edgy, innovative, unique etc I think his music from this passed decade is so much better than what most people make it out to be. the 3121 album is right up there on my list of his best albums

seriously though, I'm 39 and I love some/most of Prince's output from all eras. Some I am indifferent about (rather than scathing). I don't think it's about age.

Especially during the 2000-2010 period virtually ALL the music out there is utter crap.

So it's quite logical that the 'musically uneducated youngsters' (who were raised in a musical desert, not their fault) can appreciate Prince's latest output because, lame as it is, the rest is so bad that it's even worse.

Had those youngsters lived the days when A LOT of people were doing great music they'd by no means approve Prince's current 'state of affairs'.

[Edited 6/16/10 5:27am]

Very good Q. I am over 40 now and have been following P since '84. I'd love to think that I know a thing or 2 about music and listen to new artists much more than those from P's era. Listening to the great MPLS site that P gave Hot Summer to couldn't have highlighted anymore how so far down P has slipped as a recording artist [although live he still 'has it' IMHO]. His albums are still different and generally unique in their sound but now not in a good way - they sound dated, uninspired, his vocals lack expression and eneregy and his use of instruments lacks any imagination.

I don't even want him to get the drum machine out and programme it like the 80's, I just want him to get his pride back and give every track a real attention to detail rather than a tossed off 'that'll do' approach.

I could ramble on about what I think is wrong but sometimes we need to remember that he is over 50 and the good stuff far outweighs the bad so maybe we should cut him some slack and apprecaite that he is still around and as devisive as ever!.

Fans of the good ol' days will always be more critical of his current output. I for one have been very happy w/ most of his current work. 3121, LF, MPLSound, Musicology, TRC, it's all been good to me. But we all have different expectations. I don't expect Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, PR, ATWIAD, Parade, none of it... I just look forward to what he's done next. My 1st album was TGE then his next 'new' release was Emancipation if you don't count C&D OR The VAULT(Old Friends for Sale)<- technically they were compilation contractual agreements but I did very much like both of those albums. then again I was getting my Prince fix & loving every minute of it. But my point being is that Emancipation & TGE are absolutely nothing alike, so you just never have any idea what he's got up his sleeves. Just like TRC, I bet no one here expected that kind of an album anytime soon, minus the lyrics & belief system the MUSIC aspect of the album is phenomenal!

"simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"- leonardo davinci

i dont think our age has much to do with our perspective of his music, probably more to do with what he's released in the past, and us making unnecessary comparisons.

when we've been conditioned to Prince's more inventive, detailed and 'intelligently designed' music, a song like hot summer seems comparatively, way under par.

not because it's a bad song, but because it's so simple. i remember tracks like rasberry beret, so simple. for me, the simple stuff is some of his best work.

if rasberry beret were released today, how many people would think it to be a lower standard than the rest of his catalog? would that be a fair comparison to make?

I think 'Hot Summer' is an extremely poor track for anybody, let alone for Prince...

robinhood said:

not because it's a bad song, but because it's so simple. i remember tracks like rasberry beret, so simple. for me, the simple stuff is some of his best work.

if rasberry beret were released today, how many people would think it to be a lower standard than the rest of his catalog? would that be a fair comparison to make?

I honestly have no problem with Prince where he is today, and Hot Summer as a song but no, that is not a fair comparison. Raspberry Beret is superior if only just for the clever lyrics, but it's better in terms of structure and musicality as well IMHO. I'd hope that if it had never been on ATWIAD and was released today we would wet our pants at the strings, the middle 8, even the finger cymbals

[Edited 6/16/10 6:19am]

This thread and many others in the same vein, when asking whether older or more longtime Prince fans are hung up on the past, fail because of one glaring generalization: We who were early fans of his, say early 1980s, didn't necessarily like EVERYTHING that he did back then, either.

"Hot Summer" isn't a particularly awful song. I agree with another Orger's characterization: It does sound like it'd fit on a B-movie soundtrack... an old B-movie soundtrack, at that.

Being an old Prince head doesn't mean we automatically slam his newer output. It might, however, reflect our memories of being young and of hearing a new Prince track and being floored by the edginess, musical daring and edge-of-our-seat excitement. Those days of musical discovery with Prince are long past. Songs like "Cause and Effect" and "Hot Summer" make that pretty clear.

And, it makes us sad.

[Edited 6/16/10 6:36am]

KeithyT said:

robinhood said:

not because it's a bad song, but because it's so simple. i remember tracks like rasberry beret, so simple. for me, the simple stuff is some of his best work.

if rasberry beret were released today, how many people would think it to be a lower standard than the rest of his catalog? would that be a fair comparison to make?

I honestly have no problem with Prince where he is today, and Hot Summer as a song but no, that is not a fair comparison. Raspberry Beret is superior if only just for the clever lyrics, but it's better in terms of structure and musicality as well IMHO. I'd hope that if it had never been on ATWIAD and was released today we would wet our pants at the strings, the middle 8, even the finger cymbals

sure, fair enough.

do you think he did hot summer as a 'commercial simple song' cuz he knows the sheeple will eat it up all across europe? singing along to it in their convertibles?

"hot summer.... na na na na.... hot summer"....

seriously, could this just be another $ business move? cuz for real that song will be the song they all totally love at first, then everyone will be going "ugh i cant get it out of my head! ugh! not that song again! ugh! OMG I hate that song!"

meanwhile, che ching che ching che ching?

i dont know, but on topic - i still think its unfair to make comparisons between any of his songs - although i can understand, and hear, why we do.

vitriol said:

Especially during the 2000-2010 period virtually ALL the music out there is utter crap.

So it's quite logical that the 'musically uneducated youngsters' (who were raised in a musical desert, not their fault) can appreciate Prince's latest output because, lame as it is, the rest is so bad that it's even worse.

Had those youngsters lived the days when A LOT of people were doing great music they'd by no means approve Prince's current 'state of affairs'.

[Edited 6/16/10 5:27am]

How 'bout trying to be a little more condescending and presumptuous.

I'm being neither of that.

I just pointed that the 2001-2010 decade has been the poorest musically since I can remember (and that's not an opinion but a fact).

So I stated that people that got hooked on music within that period can logically be more 'generous' with Prince's latest output than oldtimers because it's still better that the usual crap hitting the air.

So I don't get that 'condescendent' and 'presumptuous' thing.

scandalousalan said:

but I personally think that a wave of younger generation may be able to embrace his music more than the Decrepit loyals that swarm these forums. Particularly if prince continues to release breezy pop tunes like hot summer. Just my 2 cents

Listen. Most older Prince fans who do not go online have no problem with any of Princes output. Its the everyday online folks who have issues with his output to the point of negzealotry (I just made that word up lol).

.

[Edited 6/16/10 9:36am]

I don't think it's really the "older" fans who have an issue with Prince's recent offerings.

By "older," I'm talking about those of us who are Prince's contemporaries - people who were already grown (or mostly grown) by the time For You came out. Certainly, we were adults by the time Purple Rain was released.

People in that group (of whom I am one) had listened to a lot of music by other artists by the time they ever heard of Prince, and came to his music with a whole different sensibility. By contrast, people who were kids when Purple Rain came out (which was, in most cases, their first knowledge of Prince) have Prince (and his music) as a formative element in their musical "upbringing."

As an "older" fan, my big disillusionment came in the 90s. The first time I heard Tony M on a Prince album, I thought, "WTF is this bullshit?" But people who were in their 20s (or younger) in the 90s just loooooove what Prince was then.

It is those people who I see as begging for him to cuss and generally be the "bad boy" again. Those of us who are Prince's contemporaries know that a man of 52 has no business singing about masturbating hookers. Or swearing in public. Or taking off his shirt or cutting the ass out of his trousers.

We understand that life is change. I am not what I was in my 20s. I don't expect Prince to be what he was in his 20s (or 30s, for that matter). People change. Personal events shape us in different ways. Those of us who are "older" know that and accept the changes in others as we hope others will accept the changes in us.

For those who can't, or who pine for the past, it says more about them than it does about Prince.

Genesia said:

I don't think it's really the "older" fans who have an issue with Prince's recent offerings.

By "older," I'm talking about those of us who are Prince's contemporaries - people who were already grown (or mostly grown) by the time For You came out. Certainly, we were adults by the time Purple Rain was released.

People in that group (of whom I am one) had listened to a lot of music by other artists by the time they ever heard of Prince, and came to his music with a whole different sensibility. By contrast, people who were kids when Purple Rain came out (which was, in most cases, their first knowledge of Prince) have Prince (and his music) as a formative element in their musical "upbringing."

As an "older" fan, my big disillusionment came in the 90s. The first time I heard Tony M on a Prince album, I thought, "WTF is this bullshit?" But people who were in their 20s (or younger) in the 90s just loooooove what Prince was then.

It is those people who I see as begging for him to cuss and generally be the "bad boy" again. Those of us who are Prince's contemporaries know that a man of 52 has no business singing about masturbating hookers. Or swearing in public. Or taking off his shirt or cutting the ass out of his trousers.

We understand that life is change. I am not what I was in my 20s. I don't expect Prince to be what he was in his 20s (or 30s, for that matter). People change. Personal events shape us in different ways. Those of us who are "older" know that and accept the changes in others as we hope others will accept the changes in us.

For those who can't, or who pine for the past, it says more about them than it does about Prince.

mandate

I'm almost late for a meeting so I don't have much time for elabaration but I can add this. As an old(er) Prince fan, if his new music was as good as his old music, strictly in terms of quality, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

I understand longtime fans who dismiss poppy tracks like Hot Summer, Guitar or The One U Wanna C, or who just find the wholePE/ LF/MPLS uninspired and predictable, because to a certian extent, they're right. This is the same guy that wrote 7 or Thieves in the temple not so long ago... and tracks like Hot Summer , All the Midnights in the World or No More Candy for U are an embarrassment...a waste of time & money...

But this is for all those old school fans that dismiss Musicology/3121: YOU'RE BITTER & JADED!!!!!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I'm almost late for a meeting so I don't have much time for elabaration but I can add this. As an old(er) Prince fan, if his new music was as good as his old music, strictly in terms of quality, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

Go to your meeting.

scandalousalan said:

Don't mean to offend anyone or anything. More of a speculative question/observation I've made since I joined this site. It seems to me that alot of the latest prince material is being slated by people that pine for the prince of old. Now I know there are fans out there too, and in alot of cases, people who are moreover fixated on his image and latest haircut etc which is fair enough. Different types of fans, so we cannot all be pigeon holed. I do however think that alot of golden oldies on here dismantle and dissect too much, which in alot of cases makes it inevitable in their minds it will never stand up to his past. I am 28, so I am no spring chicken myself, but I personally think that a wave of younger generation may be able to embrace his music more than the Decrepit loyals that swarm these forums. Particularly if prince continues to release breezy pop tunes like hot summer. Just my 2 cents

I'm 22 and I think his newer material is great. Better than alot of other stuff out there today. But his older work will always be the greatest. I don't think he could ever top it and I honestly don't think he's worried about trying to top it. He's just doing whatever moves him now. And allowing his legacy to kind of have a life of its own.

Genesia said:

I don't think it's really the "older" fans who have an issue with Prince's recent offerings.

By "older," I'm talking about those of us who are Prince's contemporaries - people who were already grown (or mostly grown) by the time For You came out. Certainly, we were adults by the time Purple Rain was released.

People in that group (of whom I am one) had listened to a lot of music by other artists by the time they ever heard of Prince, and came to his music with a whole different sensibility. By contrast, people who were kids when Purple Rain came out (which was, in most cases, their first knowledge of Prince) have Prince (and his music) as a formative element in their musical "upbringing."

As an "older" fan, my big disillusionment came in the 90s. The first time I heard Tony M on a Prince album, I thought, "WTF is this bullshit?" But people who were in their 20s (or younger) in the 90s just loooooove what Prince was then.

It is those people who I see as begging for him to cuss and generally be the "bad boy" again. Those of us who are Prince's contemporaries know that a man of 52 has no business singing about masturbating hookers. Or swearing in public. Or taking off his shirt or cutting the ass out of his trousers.

We understand that life is change. I am not what I was in my 20s. I don't expect Prince to be what he was in his 20s (or 30s, for that matter). People change. Personal events shape us in different ways. Those of us who are "older" know that and accept the changes in others as we hope others will accept the changes in us.

For those who can't, or who pine for the past, it says more about them than it does about Prince.

That's an interesting perspective. I was 12 when 1999 came out, my first introduction to Prince, so he was indeed a formative element in my musical upbringing. But I don't particularly care if he starts cursing again. I disagree that it's inappropriate for a man of 52 to swear in public, but I also don't care if he doesn't. My problem lies more in what he's replaced it with, which is rather insipid odes to his own ego. LF/MPLSound is a perfect example: He spends two (three, if you count Bria's) albums talking about how great he is rather than showing it. But still, I've come relatively recently to this opinion. I think Planet Earth is okay, not great, but almost all the albums before that have a lot more good than bad on them, in my opinion.

Ultimately, I don't believe it has anything to do with age, mine or Prince's. But it has a lot to do with all the other well-tread subjects we've covered here at the org.

Efan said:

Genesia said:

I don't think it's really the "older" fans who have an issue with Prince's recent offerings.

By "older," I'm talking about those of us who are Prince's contemporaries - people who were already grown (or mostly grown) by the time For You came out. Certainly, we were adults by the time Purple Rain was released.

People in that group (of whom I am one) had listened to a lot of music by other artists by the time they ever heard of Prince, and came to his music with a whole different sensibility. By contrast, people who were kids when Purple Rain came out (which was, in most cases, their first knowledge of Prince) have Prince (and his music) as a formative element in their musical "upbringing."

As an "older" fan, my big disillusionment came in the 90s. The first time I heard Tony M on a Prince album, I thought, "WTF is this bullshit?" But people who were in their 20s (or younger) in the 90s just loooooove what Prince was then.

It is those people who I see as begging for him to cuss and generally be the "bad boy" again. Those of us who are Prince's contemporaries know that a man of 52 has no business singing about masturbating hookers. Or swearing in public. Or taking off his shirt or cutting the ass out of his trousers.

We understand that life is change. I am not what I was in my 20s. I don't expect Prince to be what he was in his 20s (or 30s, for that matter). People change. Personal events shape us in different ways. Those of us who are "older" know that and accept the changes in others as we hope others will accept the changes in us.

For those who can't, or who pine for the past, it says more about them than it does about Prince.

That's an interesting perspective. I was 12 when 1999 came out, my first introduction to Prince, so he was indeed a formative element in my musical upbringing. But I don't particularly care if he starts cursing again. I disagree that it's inappropriate for a man of 52 to swear in public, but I also don't care if he doesn't. My problem lies more in what he's replaced it with, which is rather insipid odes to his own ego. LF/MPLSound is a perfect example: He spends two (three, if you count Bria's) albums talking about how great he is rather than showing it. But still, I've come relatively recently to this opinion. I think Planet Earth is okay, not great, but almost all the albums before that have a lot more good than bad on them, in my opinion.

Ultimately, I don't believe it has anything to do with age, mine or Prince's. But it has a lot to do with all the other well-tread subjects we've covered here at the org.

Y'know...I read an article not too long ago on memory - and why it seems like our memories from our younger days are so much more vivid and real than the memories from our adult lives. No, itisn't alcohol related. (Well...maybe a little in my case...but I digress.)

The thing is...when we're younger, we experience everything with a lot more attention and vigor - because it's all happening for the first time. Everything that happens just seems so cool and fires your imagination in ways that astound you. And if you're a creative person, your creativity just goes into hyperdrive.

By the time you hit middle age, new experiences are a lot fewer. Your views of the world are pretty well formed, as are your routines. The font of creativity still flows, but not with the urgency it did when you were younger.

That is what Prince is dealing with. As much as it seems like he still does what he wants, when he wants, the fact of the matter is, he's shut himself off from a lot of experiences. What fires his imagination, anymore?

You know the saddest thing about getting older? It isn't the change in how you look. It's the realization that, no matter how singular and special you felt when you were young, you're really just like everybody else. Except for a few details, the human experience is the human experience. It's a tough thing to get past.

ThreadBare said:

This thread and many others in the same vein, when asking whether older or more longtime Prince fans are hung up on the past, fail because of one glaring generalization: We who were early fans of his, say early 1980s, didn't necessarily like EVERYTHING that he did back then, either.

"Hot Summer" isn't a particularly awful song. I agree with another Orger's characterization: It does sound like it'd fit on a B-movie soundtrack... an old B-movie soundtrack, at that.

Being an old Prince head doesn't mean we automatically slam his newer output. It might, however, reflect our memories of being young and of hearing a new Prince track and being floored by the edginess, musical daring and edge-of-our-seat excitement. Those days of musical discovery with Prince are long past. Songs like "Cause and Effect" and "Hot Summer" make that pretty clear.

And, it makes us sad.

[Edited 6/16/10 6:36am]

THANK.

YOU

Genesia said:

Efan said:

That's an interesting perspective. I was 12 when 1999 came out, my first introduction to Prince, so he was indeed a formative element in my musical upbringing. But I don't particularly care if he starts cursing again. I disagree that it's inappropriate for a man of 52 to swear in public, but I also don't care if he doesn't. My problem lies more in what he's replaced it with, which is rather insipid odes to his own ego. LF/MPLSound is a perfect example: He spends two (three, if you count Bria's) albums talking about how great he is rather than showing it. But still, I've come relatively recently to this opinion. I think Planet Earth is okay, not great, but almost all the albums before that have a lot more good than bad on them, in my opinion.

Ultimately, I don't believe it has anything to do with age, mine or Prince's. But it has a lot to do with all the other well-tread subjects we've covered here at the org.

Y'know...I read an article not too long ago on memory - and why it seems like our memories from our younger days are so much more vivid and real than the memories from our adult lives. No, itisn't alcohol related. (Well...maybe a little in my case...but I digress.)

The thing is...when we're younger, we experience everything with a lot more attention and vigor - because it's all happening for the first time. Everything that happens just seems so cool and fires your imagination in ways that astound you. And if you're a creative person, your creativity just goes into hyperdrive.

By the time you hit middle age, new experiences are a lot fewer. Your views of the world are pretty well formed, as are your routines. The font of creativity still flows, but not with the urgency it did when you were younger.

That is what Prince is dealing with. As much as it seems like he still does what he wants, when he wants, the fact of the matter is, he's shut himself off from a lot of experiences. What fires his imagination, anymore?

You know the saddest thing about getting older? It isn't the change in how you look. It's the realization that, no matter how singular and special you felt when you were young, you're really just like everybody else. Except for a few details, the human experience is the human experience. It's a tough thing to get past.

Another very interesting point.

But still, I think when Prince is inspired, he remains as vibrant and brilliant as ever. As much as I hate a lot of the lyrics on TRC, it's musically wonderful and every bit as good as anything that came before it. Granted, it was a decade ago, but still. Moreover, I'm not so sure I agree with your point that the font of creativity doesn't flow with the urgency it once did as we get older. True, that is undoubtedly often the case...but then I look at authors like Philip Roth, Cormac McCarthy, and John Updike and wonder why we assume that true geniuses in any creative field automatically get less inspired as they age.

Whether Prince ever swears again is totally up to him...but so is whether he decides to use his gifts to say something more insightful than "U can't make chocolate cake if ain't nobody ever shown U how."

I'm 44, no matter what age, Hot Summer is awful, it makes me sad, 3 awful tracks in a row.

There's nothing in those songs to appreciate: Remember it's the artist Prince we are talking about.

the question is why Prince is releasing such crap songs. I hope the only reason is to lower our expectations to a forthcoming album.

still very sad Prince could sink down in that way, embarrassing....

scandalousalan said:

Don't mean to offend anyone or anything. More of a speculative question/observation I've made since I joined this site. It seems to me that alot of the latest prince material is being slated by people that pine for the prince of old. Now I know there are fans out there too, and in alot of cases, people who are moreover fixated on his image and latest haircut etc which is fair enough. Different types of fans, so we cannot all be pigeon holed. I do however think that alot of golden oldies on here dismantle and dissect too much, which in alot of cases makes it inevitable in their minds it will never stand up to his past. I am 28, so I am no spring chicken myself, but I personally think that a wave of younger generation may be able to embrace his music more than the Decrepit loyals that swarm these forums. Particularly if prince continues to release breezy pop tunes like hot summer. Just my 2 cents

I think at 42 all of my observations of most things are influenced by my experience and i am very mindful to be careful of sounding like a grouchy old guy-my kids (22,25) have no problem reminding me. When it comes to Prince's recent output i feel that my response is rooted in where i am, i dont expect urgency nor innovation but i do reserve the right to ignore shit i dont find interesting. I love that he's matured image wise because it would be sad to pitty him for becoming a clown. I honestly dont value what he's recording now but i still feel proud that he's wildly successful as a live act and adjusting wonderfully to being the Icon he is. If younger people are drawn to his newer work fine, but dont you think its disingenuis to act as if the current musical chapters are comparable to say 1980-1988?. I started listening to JB in high school, too young to know the real JB of the late 60's and early 70's. Back then i knew "Soul Power" was the shit and "Living in America" wasnt. You do know that right?, you do see a distinction between Dirty Mind and Musicology right? you can admit this without making it about us right?. Being mature i think i can speak for most 40 somethings when i say "decrepit loyals" are anything but, we are 10 yrs. younger than him and most of us at this age are loyal to our spouses and children. I dont want to see prince talk about masturbation, all he has to do is rip guitar (dreamer) and get funky (old school company) every now and then and i'm straight. But if he continues to release "breezy pop tunes" when he used to release mindbending, kickass genre bending masterpieces that forced pop to come to him ......You Youngsta's can Have him, keep deluding yourself, because you missed the ride. I missed Woodstock and JB at the Apollo, but at least i'm realistic enough to admit it.

xlr8r said:

negzealotry (I just made that word up lol).

If I had a dollar for every time you say, don't you miss the feeling Prince's music gave ya back in the day ...negzealotry

dreamshaman32 said:

scandalousalan said:

Don't mean to offend anyone or anything. More of a speculative question/observation I've made since I joined this site. It seems to me that alot of the latest prince material is being slated by people that pine for the prince of old. Now I know there are fans out there too, and in alot of cases, people who are moreover fixated on his image and latest haircut etc which is fair enough. Different types of fans, so we cannot all be pigeon holed. I do however think that alot of golden oldies on here dismantle and dissect too much, which in alot of cases makes it inevitable in their minds it will never stand up to his past. I am 28, so I am no spring chicken myself, but I personally think that a wave of younger generation may be able to embrace his music more than the Decrepit loyals that swarm these forums. Particularly if prince continues to release breezy pop tunes like hot summer. Just my 2 cents

I think at 42 all of my observations of most things are influenced by my experience and i am very mindful to be careful of sounding like a grouchy old guy-my kids (22,25) have no problem reminding me. When it comes to Prince's recent output i feel that my response is rooted in where i am, i dont expect urgency nor innovation but i do reserve the right to ignore shit i dont find interesting. I love that he's matured image wise because it would be sad to pitty him for becoming a clown. I honestly dont value what he's recording now but i still feel proud that he's wildly successful as a live act and adjusting wonderfully to being the Icon he is. If younger people are drawn to his newer work fine, but dont you think its disingenuis to act as if the current musical chapters are comparable to say 1980-1988?. I started listening to JB in high school, too young to know the real JB of the late 60's and early 70's. Back then i knew "Soul Power" was the shit and "Living in America" wasnt. You do know that right?, you do see a distinction between Dirty Mind and Musicology right? you can admit this without making it about us right?. Being mature i think i can speak for most 40 somethings when i say "decrepit loyals" are anything but, we are 10 yrs. younger than him and most of us at this age are loyal to our spouses and children. I dont want to see prince talk about masturbation, all he has to do is rip guitar (dreamer) and get funky (old school company) every now and then and i'm straight. But if he continues to release "breezy pop tunes" when he used to release mindbending, kickass genre bending masterpieces that forced pop to come to him ......You Youngsta's can Have him, keep deluding yourself, because you missed the ride. I missed Woodstock and JB at the Apollo, but at least i'm realistic enough to admit it.

So, in other words, he's doing just fine. Because he just released Dreamer and Old Skool Company on his last album - not even 14 months ago.

What do you mean, "continues to release 'breezy pop tunes'?" He's released one since Lotusflow3r. (I don't think Cause and Effect or Purple and Gold were especially 'breezy.") Oooooooh...reserve his spot at the assisted living facility.