elmer said:

Marrk said:

Marvin literally smokes Prince. As a writer, as a visionary, as a vocalist. Plus he was good looking.

[Edited 6/14/10 13:49pm]

Marvin never recorded a masterpiece album though, his only solid works were I Want You, Here My Dear and In Our Lifetime. The lyrics often tended to the stale and childishly idealistic, songs like Save The Children are hard to stomach.

that is quite possibly the dumbest shit i've ever read on the Org.

and THAT's saying something.

[Edited 6/17/10 8:22am]

ButterscotchPimp said:

elmer said:

Marvin never recorded a masterpiece album though, his only solid works were I Want You, Here My Dear and In Our Lifetime. The lyrics often tended to the stale and childishly idealistic, songs like Save The Children are hard to stomach.

ButterscotchPimp said:

elmer said:

Marvin never recorded a masterpiece album though, his only solid works were I Want You, Here My Dear and In Our Lifetime. The lyrics often tended to the stale and childishly idealistic, songs like Save The Children are hard to stomach.

that is quite possibly the dumbest shit i've ever read on the Org.

and THAT's saying something.

[Edited 6/17/10 8:22am]

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

elmer said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

that is quite possibly the dumbest shit i've ever read on the Org.

and THAT's saying something.

[Edited 6/17/10 8:22am]

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

ButterscotchPimp said:

elmer said:

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Not only What's Goin' On is one of the best produced albums of all time, it's also one of the strongest from start to finish; all killers - no fillers

My top10 STRONGEST ALBUMS FROM START TO FINISH OF ALL TIME

1.Beatles: Revolver

2.Prince: Purple Rain

3.David Bowie: Ziggy Stardust

4.The Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street

5.Stevie Wonder: Talking Book

6.Beach Boys: Pet Sounds

7.Marvin Gaye: What's Goin' On

8.Roxy Music: Country Life

9.Prince: SOTT

10.The Doors: The Doors

ButterscotchPimp said:

elmer said:

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Ok tough guy, ignorance is bliss. You enjoy yer uncle Marv.

yankem said:

YESWECAN said:

I know I'm not an audiophile of Marvin Gaye, but I just have the belief that Marvin Gaye wasn't in the same ball park of Prince's total package of talent.

Please, point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

This record is very important because it was with this one that Marvin broke free. Before this one, he was singing words written by others and produced by others (you know the Motown corporation). He had the album in his head but Berry Gordy wouldn't want this kind of concept album written and produced by one man (Motown wasn't working this way). Marvin held firm on is position and said he would quit Motown if he couldn't do the record he wanted to do and write and produce it himself (he didn't wrote Slave on his cheek but he was in the middle of a battle for artistic control over his work...). You know the rest, he won and I think Berry Gordy did never regret it. This album (anti war, with one of the first song on ecology, describing the poor surbubian life...) is considered a masterpiece, often classified as one of the best soul album.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to compare Prince and Marvin, I don't think that you can really compare two artists ( and if they don't live in the same period of time thus not reacting to the same things happening in their world, it's even harder...) Well, you can do it just for fun but on a Prince site, Prince will always win and I think it's perfectly natural !!!!

You said it better than I could.

JoeTyler said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Not only What's Goin' On is one of the best produced albums of all time, it's also one of the strongest from start to finish; all killers - no fillers

My top10 STRONGEST ALBUMS FROM START TO FINISH OF ALL TIME

1.Beatles: Revolver

2.Prince: Purple Rain

3.David Bowie: Ziggy Stardust

4.The Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street

5.Stevie Wonder: Talking Book

6.Beach Boys: Pet Sounds

7.Marvin Gaye: What's Goin' On

8.Roxy Music: Country Life

9.Prince: SOTT

10.The Doors: The Doors

There's actually little variation in tempo or arrangement, to say it's all killers kinda does a disservice to the t/t, Mercy Mercy Me, Right On and Inner City.

Pets Sounds is another classic-for-the-hipsters-holy-grail record.

ButterscotchPimp said:

elmer said:

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Arent you the same guy who said Prince isnt funky/has zero influence on the genre?

Talk about stupid comments.

Irony strikes again!

elmer said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

that is quite possibly the dumbest shit i've ever read on the Org.

and THAT's saying something.

[Edited 6/17/10 8:22am]

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

You are the first person I've ever heard downtalk "What's Going On."

Please...give us your example of a classic album so we can see where you're coming from.

StonedImmaculate said:

elmer said:

Oh, give over. A 'masterpiece' doesn't contain turkeys, and a record like What's Going On has them in abundance: Save The Children, God Is Love and Wholy Holy are poorly written, and're all the proof needed that the whole doesn't measure up to the praise bestowed. As with much of his work he weaves a silky groove and proceeds to work it to death over ten or so songs - he was a limited performer, of little artistic growth in comparison to Prince. A legendary soul singer who made pleasurable, important music no doubt, but probably the most overrated critically.

You are the first person I've ever heard downtalk "What's Going On."

Please...give us your example of a classic album so we can see where you're coming from.

Well now I didn't say it wasn't a classic album, I think it is, just the whole thing is so seamlessly tied together that the lesser songs, being derivative in sound to the great ones, make it monotonous in parts.

Parade isn't cited amongst journo-bloggers etc as a classic but it's a masterpiece. The fact is, I don't mind the electronic drums, the synthesizers or the 80s production that most artists would create a desert of boredom with. Everything is so tight they don't matter at all. Crucially, there's variation, melodicism and it's hard to settle on highlights.

YESWECAN said:

yankem said:

This record is very important because it was with this one that Marvin broke free. Before this one, he was singing words written by others and produced by others (you know the Motown corporation). He had the album in his head but Berry Gordy wouldn't want this kind of concept album written and produced by one man (Motown wasn't working this way). Marvin held firm on is position and said he would quit Motown if he couldn't do the record he wanted to do and write and produce it himself (he didn't wrote Slave on his cheek but he was in the middle of a battle for artistic control over his work...). You know the rest, he won and I think Berry Gordy did never regret it. This album (anti war, with one of the first song on ecology, describing the poor surbubian life...) is considered a masterpiece, often classified as one of the best soul album.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to compare Prince and Marvin, I don't think that you can really compare two artists ( and if they don't live in the same period of time thus not reacting to the same things happening in their world, it's even harder...) Well, you can do it just for fun but on a Prince site, Prince will always win and I think it's perfectly natural !!!!

You said it better than I could.

Thank you Yeswecan !

JoeTyler said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Not only What's Goin' On is one of the best produced albums of all time, it's also one of the strongest from start to finish; all killers - no fillers

My top10 STRONGEST ALBUMS FROM START TO FINISH OF ALL TIME

1.Beatles: Revolver

2.Prince: Purple Rain

3.David Bowie: Ziggy Stardust

4.The Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street

5.Stevie Wonder: Talking Book

6.Beach Boys: Pet Sounds

7.Marvin Gaye: What's Goin' On

8.Roxy Music: Country Life

9.Prince: SOTT

10.The Doors: The Doors

Anyone who claims to love music will not be able to argue with that list.

TonyVanDam said:

Think of it as a game show with no right or wrong answer, but only your strong opinions. Just 5 questions needed you answer higher OR lower. OK here we go:

1. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Barry White? Higher

2. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Steve Wonder? Overall-Higher*

3. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Rick James? Higher

4. Prince is rank higher OR lower than The Bee Gees? Higher

5. Prince is rank higher OR lower than David Bowie? Higher

6. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Sly Stone? Higher

7. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Lennon/McCartney? Higher*

I am so looking forward to see your results. Have fun!

Taking the whole picture into consideration, there is no other choice. The other groups have periods and/or albums that may have been better than some of Prince's work at any given time; however the magnitude of Prince's talent(s) as one individual in performing, composing and writing, coupled with volume and longevity really makes him the best.

sweething said:

TonyVanDam said:

Think of it as a game show with no right or wrong answer, but only your strong opinions. Just 5 questions needed you answer higher OR lower. OK here we go:

1. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Barry White? Higher

2. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Steve Wonder? Overall-Higher*

3. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Rick James? Higher

4. Prince is rank higher OR lower than The Bee Gees? Higher

5. Prince is rank higher OR lower than David Bowie? Higher

6. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Sly Stone? Higher

7. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Lennon/McCartney? Higher*

I am so looking forward to see your results. Have fun!

Taking the whole picture into consideration, there is no other choice. The other groups have periods and/or albums that may have been better than some of Prince's work at any given time; however the magnitude of Prince's talent(s) as one individual in performing, composing and writing, coupled with volume and longevity really makes him the best.

Well said.

muleFunk said:

JoeTyler said:

Not only What's Goin' On is one of the best produced albums of all time, it's also one of the strongest from start to finish; all killers - no fillers

My top10 STRONGEST ALBUMS FROM START TO FINISH OF ALL TIME

1.Beatles: Revolver

2.Prince: Purple Rain

3.David Bowie: Ziggy Stardust

4.The Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street

5.Stevie Wonder: Talking Book

6.Beach Boys: Pet Sounds

7.Marvin Gaye: What's Goin' On

8.Roxy Music: Country Life

9.Prince: SOTT

10.The Doors: The Doors

Anyone who claims to love music will not be able to argue with that list.

So The Doors are integral to the love of music?

JoeTyler said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Not only What's Goin' On is one of the best produced albums of all time, it's also one of the strongest from start to finish; all killers - no fillers

My top10 STRONGEST ALBUMS FROM START TO FINISH OF ALL TIME

1.Beatles: Revolver

2.Prince: Purple Rain

3.David Bowie: Ziggy Stardust

4.The Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street

5.Stevie Wonder: Talking Book

6.Beach Boys: Pet Sounds

7.Marvin Gaye: What's Goin' On

8.Roxy Music: Country Life

9.Prince: SOTT

10.The Doors: The Doors

That right there is a great list.

As for the original question, I would say the only ones I would rank higher are Lennon/McCartney, simply because without their innovations in song structure, Prince as we know him might not exist. =0P

minneapolisFunq said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

the only other comment i'm going to make is this.

if we were in a bar having this discussion, you'd be wearing a chair around your neck.

and i stand by my other statement. i've been around the Org for awhile now, and bar none that is the dumbest shit i've ever read in here.

you win a prize.

Arent you the same guy who said Prince isnt funky/has zero influence on the genre?

Talk about stupid comments.

Irony strikes again!

this again?

for the last time, Prince is funky.

Prince is not a funk artist and has not been a major contributor to the genre.

and has yet to make an album as influentual as "What's Going On".

ButterscotchPimp said:

and has yet to make an album as influentual as "What's Going On".

True dat, but when has influence been a guarantee of quality?

Prince can be placed higher than most artist simply for the fact that he could be any one of these folks listed here and even surpass them in their own limited predefined place in music history, with the possible exception of The Beatles. And it seems Prince himself feels this way too, In his infamous quote about U2 in 1988 he remarked they couldn't couldn't write a "Housequake" meaning he could do whatever they could but they couldn't do everything he could. And for Prince circa 88 that was very true. He was above just everybody.

TonyVanDam said:

Think of it as a game show with no right or wrong answer, but only your strong opinions. Just 5 questions needed you answer higher OR lower. OK here we go:

1. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Barry White? ________higher

2. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Steve Wonder? ________higher

3. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Rick James? ________higher

4. Prince is rank higher OR lower than The Bee Gees? _______higher

5. Prince is rank higher OR lower than David Bowie? _______higher

6. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Sly Stone? _______higher

7. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Lennon/McCartney? _______lower

I am so looking forward to see your results. Have fun!

also prince ranks lower than jimi hendrix.

prince ranks higher than madonna

prince ranks the same as michael jackson

ButterscotchPimp said:

minneapolisFunq said:

Arent you the same guy who said Prince isnt funky/has zero influence on the genre?

Talk about stupid comments.

Irony strikes again!

this again?

for the last time, Prince is funky.

Prince is not a funk artist and has not been a major contributor to the genre.

and has yet to make an album as influentual as "What's Going On".

1. Was funk ever (strictly) a genre? If so, is it still alive as a genre? To me, as far as a way to categorize new music, it is as dead as disco. I mean, give me an example of a new "funk" artist?

2. Prince created The Time. Which also propelled the careers of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. In my book, that's a a hell of a contribution to the funk. Not to mention writing some of the all time jams like "Erotic City", "Housequake", etc.

3. I'd argue the influence of "What's Going On" is much like the influence of Bob Dylan....it means a lot more depending on your age/generation/social perspective. If we are simply looking at the surface, Purple Rain sold more copies and had more chart success with singles, etc. Plus, you have to account the phenomenon that was the movie . As a movie, Purple Rain was HUGE. Marvin never won an oscar as far as I know.

It's hard to gauge influence otherwise. One could argue that, unlike What's Going On, Purple Rain was fully consumed by white america and, because of that, was heavily responsible for the Parental Advisory sticker. I mean, Tipper Gore freaked out because her young white girls were listening to "Darling Nikki". What's Going On was a lot of things, but it was never the dangerous Rock N' Roll record that lit the world on fire.

Bottom line: IMO it is up for debate if Prince has made an album more influential than What's Going On.

violetblues said:

Prince can be placed higher than most artist simply for the fact that he could be any one of these folks listed here and even surpass them in their own limited predefined place in music history, with the possible exception of The Beatles. And it seems Prince himself feels this way too, In his infamous quote about U2 in 1988 he remarked they couldn't couldn't write a "Housequake" meaning he could do whatever they could but they couldn't do everything he could. And for Prince circa 88 that was very true. He was above just everybody.

Pfff...delusional, he wasn't able to rejuvenate a flagging career with albums like Achtung or Zooropa come the 90s hey.

U2 wouldn't have been immature enough to write Housequake, which was as fine an attempt to bollocks up a great album if ever I've heard one.

novabrkr said:

Higher Higher Higher Higher Higher Higher Higher

Prince is the best.

elmer said:

violetblues said:

Prince can be placed higher than most artist simply for the fact that he could be any one of these folks listed here and even surpass them in their own limited predefined place in music history, with the possible exception of The Beatles. And it seems Prince himself feels this way too, In his infamous quote about U2 in 1988 he remarked they couldn't couldn't write a "Housequake" meaning he could do whatever they could but they couldn't do everything he could. And for Prince circa 88 that was very true. He was above just everybody.

Pfff...delusional, he wasn't able to rejuvenate a flagging career with albums like Achtung or Zooropa come the 90s hey.

U2 wouldn't have been immature enough to write Housequake, which was as fine an attempt to bollocks up a great album if ever I've heard one.

I am a U2 fan and will tell you this: U2 takes much time between albums. They take a long, concentrated, effort to make sure their albums are crafted and received in a positive way by critics. They love to be the critics darlings. Look at the 180 they did when Pop was less than universally loved. Prince seems to give less of a care about that type of critical approval.

2ndly, "Housequake" is the bees knees. Your usage of the term bollocks suggests that you are European, but that's still not a good excuse to disrespect that classic. During the Sign O' The Times and Lovesexy tours, the European crowds ate up that jam with a spoon.

[Edited 6/20/10 18:57pm]

1. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Barry White? Definitely higher

2. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Steve Wonder? Overall higher - When Stevie is good he is very very good, when he is not he is awful

3. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Rick James? Definitely higher

4. Prince is rank higher OR lower than The Bee Gees? Definitely higher

5. Prince is rank higher OR lower than David Bowie? Equal

6. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Sly Stone? Definitely higher

7. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Lennon/McCartney? Definitely higher

elmer said:

violetblues said:

Prince can be placed higher than most artist simply for the fact that he could be any one of these folks listed here and even surpass them in their own limited predefined place in music history, with the possible exception of The Beatles. And it seems Prince himself feels this way too, In his infamous quote about U2 in 1988 he remarked they couldn't couldn't write a "Housequake" meaning he could do whatever they could but they couldn't do everything he could. And for Prince circa 88 that was very true. He was above just everybody.

Pfff...delusional, he wasn't able to rejuvenate a flagging career with albums like Achtung or Zooropa come the 90s hey.

U2 wouldn't have been immature enough to write Housequake, which was as fine an attempt to bollocks up a great album if ever I've heard one.

I love U2, but they have alwasy been a one note band, they repeat the same formula in slightly different ways from album to album.

True if i would compare 2010 U2 to 2010 Prince, U2 would definitely come out on top in album quality but as performer Prince still takes the cake.

In 1988 Prince was the epitome of an artist at his peak, U2 were nowhere near Prince's league.

From the 90's onward most every artist including teeny boppers boy bands were better than Prince including U2

[Edited 6/20/10 23:42pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Think of it as a game show with no right or wrong answer, but only your strong opinions. Just 5 questions needed you answer higher OR lower. OK here we go:

1. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Barry White? ___HIGHER_____

2. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Steve Wonder? LOWER/EQUAL can't decide

3. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Rick James? __HIGHER______

4. Prince is rank higher OR lower than The Bee Gees? _MUCH HIGHER

5. Prince is rank higher OR lower than David Bowie? HIGHER

6. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Sly Stone? HIGHER

7. Prince is rank higher OR lower than Lennon/McCartney? LOWER

I am so looking forward to see your results. Have fun!

violetblues said:

From the 90's onward most every artist including teeny boppers boy bands were better than Prince including U2

U2 are extraordinarily creative given their limited musicianship. They are smarter than Prince, more shrewd at gauging the public pulse, and also better at making judgments of taste about their own work.

But Prince, even beyond his peak has always been a sprawling genius. I'm not a fan of his work post-Musicology, but I believe his 90s and early 2000s output is hugely underrated. There's at least a few songs on every Prince album from that period that are way beyond Bono's or The Edge's musical vocabulary, and The "Symbol" Album, The Gold Experience and The Rainbow Children are brimming with them.

1. Higher

2. Lower (Stevie is a real pioneer)

3. Higher

4. Higher

5. Higher (But just, Bowie comes close

6. Higher

7. Lower (These two are the greatest artists of all time)