he's not in the songwriter's hall of fame, and it took ages for him to receive recognition in other areas of the music industry. some would say he still hasnt been given his full due. why is that? is it jealousy? and what makes it so difficult for the industry and some of his fans to fully accept him exactly the way he is? or do you think he has been accepted no more or no less than any other artist?

He was praised by the music press for Dirty Mind, was allowed to issue a double LP by his record company 4 years into his career which was also well-received by critics and the public, and won an Oscar a year later. I think he was given his due and treated fairly by his fans, his label and journalists.

squirrelgrease said:

He was praised by the music press for Dirty Mind, was allowed to issue a double LP by his record company 4 years into his career which was also well-received by critics and the public, and won an Oscar a year later. I think he was given his due and treated fairly by his fans, his label and journalists.

I know they used to do nice stuff for him but what have they done for him late-ly!

In fact, it's the other way round: he's treated fans, labels and journalists really bad.

All the praise in the world wouldn't be enough for him, he'd still want more and more and more.

[Edited 6/1/10 9:48am]

I'm agreeing with the comments. I don't think you've really done your homework on this. The man has won an incredible amount of accolades and awards. He's done unprecedented things in his career (like the double album only 4 years in? Unheard of still today), and he's been duely noted for those things.

It's hard to believe The Moody Blues or Chubby Checker haven't been inducted yet. KISS may never after their Fuck You attitude toward it. Gene spoils everything.

However, if we're just going to induct everyone their first year or two of eligibility, why even have the thing? We know who the greats are, don't we? Why do we need a hall of fame for it? What purpose does it serve? I think music is everlasting. Unlike the baseball hall of fame, or a veteran's memorial (wall or otherwise) that reminds us of things that are out of sight-out of mind, music goes on and on. Someone always enlightens someone on an older artist and their career. Look at the 20-something year old fans we have on the Org. Some obviously weren't around for SOTT, or Purple Rain, or Controversy, yet they know about Prince now and are learning about his career from other fans. How has the Hall of Fame changed that? I like the building itself, with the scores of memoribilia, etc. But the induction part - seems phony in some regards.

Back on topic: Prince is far from an outcast. Vitriol is correct. It was about 1981 that he stopped talking to the press all together. I remember reading one interview with him before Purple Rain, and he was either being very snotty or very sarcastic to the journalist. "What irritates you the most?" "This interview." It went on and on. I would have told him to sod off if he kept being that pissy with me. It's hard to read into words on a paper and know what Prince was meaning. Maybe it was sarcasm. Maybe it wasn't. Even now, with his "no tape recorders" policy, he's a little Napoleon. The purpose of being a journalist is to JOURNAL thing, record them as they happen, and report them. Prince doesn't want to be misquoted, but yet he demands people remember everything from memory when writing up an article that will hopefully do him some good, instead of have a negative slant. I remember him in Vibe magazine in 1994 or so with Alan Light. Prince was just rambling on about "They call me Nell's son. I don't even know who Nell is." (He meant NELSON, his last name - as he'd just changed his name to the year prior.) It's just that catty nature that puts people off about him. He's kind of dug his own hole with it.

But to his credit, he's tried to men that relationship a bit. He was very friendly with Oprah (but dissed her later on L40A site - a bit). He talked with Larry King, Chris Rock, Ellen, Jay Leno, and others over the years, and has seemed friendly enough. But those years of not talking to the press have left a stigma, of sorts, on him. He played a bit TOO much into the "mysterious enigma" role, and now reporters just think that's who Prince really is, and have no idea how to approach him. They just assume he's that guy. That alienates him a bit, unfortunately. I'd like to see him back on Oprah. I'd like to see him do the kind of press junket that happened in 1999 when Rave Un2 came out. That man was on Keyboard, Bass Player, Guitar World, Drummer's World (whatever it's called) - every damn magazine out there. Notorious had him on the cover, as did Code, and a dozen others it seemed. Ahhh, the days.

[Edited 6/1/10 8:23am]

[Edited 6/1/10 8:46am]

ernestsewell said:

those years of not talking to the press have left a stigma, of sorts, on him. He played a bit TOO much into the "mysterious enigma" role, and now reporters just think that's who Prince really is, and have no idea how to approach him. They just assume he's that guy. That alienates him a bit, unfortunately. I'd like to see him back on Oprah. I'd like to see him do the kind of press junket that happened in 1999 when Rave Un2 came out. That man was on Keyboard, Bass Player, Guitar World, Drummer's World (whatever it's called) - every damn magazine out there. Notorious had him on the cover, as did Code, and a dozen others it seemed. Ahhh, the days.

Ernest is "Dead ... on it" on this post right here. That's what draws me in. The mystery of it, the enigmatic artist is what has me be interested from my first album up to LotusFlow3r.

Prince has created that "facade", we all know that ...

ernestsewell said:

Even now, with his "no tape recorders" policy, he's a little Napoleon. The purpose of being a journalist is to JOURNAL thing, record them as they happen, and report them. Prince doesn't want to be misquoted, but yet he demands people remember everything from memory when writing up an article that will hopefully do him some good, instead of have a negative slant.

Well, the reason for that is easy to divine. The man wants total deniability.

The Croke Park judgment is only going to make it worse.

the reason prince is rude is cuz journalists are idiots ... fuck them ... and its true he hasnt gotten the proper respect ... i mean he truly dominates compared to most of the crap that gets grammys hall of fame ... i mean compare prince to madonna ... madonna should be in the ho hall of fame but not music .. and she gets more respect than prince ..

i think the issue is with respect to prince talent is he getting the proper level of respect and the answer is absolutely no ... i mean can any of those rnr hall of famers play every instrument ... blow our minds on each instrument ... play pretty much any song ... none have written as many pure hits except maybe the beatles or stones or stevie wonder ... is prince placed on their level ... no ... has he written at least 50 mindblowing should have been number one hits YES ... can he play all of there songs and rock them hard ... YES can they play his songs .... not likely ... i mean compared to prince .. pearl jam , u2, blow chunks .. is prince given that level of respect NO

its bull sheet

TrevorAyer said:

the reason prince is rude is cuz journalists are idiots ... fuck them ... and its true he hasnt gotten the proper respect ... i mean he truly dominates compared to most of the crap that gets grammys hall of fame ... i mean compare prince to madonna ... madonna should be in the ho hall of fame but not music .. and she gets more respect than prince ..

i think the issue is with respect to prince talent is he getting the proper level of respect and the answer is absolutely no ... i mean can any of those rnr hall of famers play every instrument ... blow our minds on each instrument ... play pretty much any song ... none have written as many pure hits except maybe the beatles or stones or stevie wonder ... is prince placed on their level ... no ... has he written at least 50 mindblowing should have been number one hits YES ... can he play all of there songs and rock them hard ... YES can they play his songs .... not likely ... i mean compared to prince .. pearl jam , u2, blow chunks .. is prince given that level of respect NO

its bull sheet

That's a very fammy statement. I mean, really. I mean, journalists didn't start out being rude to Prince. I mean, they praised him from early on. They loved Dirty Mind, and raved about 1999. It was Prince that sabotaged his image in the press. I mean, when WB started to throttle his output (the "Let's Rock" case being the first), Prince started to withdraw from the press. He thought he would "get back" at WB for trying to limit his output. Yet, what did he end up doing? I mean, he ended up having this "mystique" about him that hurt him. In the 80's that was cool. In the 90's, people called bullshit. And they were right.

I mean the fact is that, beyond the positive or negative reviews, interviews, and critiques, the critics have most always loved Prince's music, and their reviews have reflected that. So have the fans. I mean, even the fans didn't buy into the mystique; not after a while. I mean, it was fun for a minute, but it got old after a while.

It's juvenile to say that a band like Pearl Jam, which released every one of their 72 concert dates on CD for fans, or U2, which streams full concerts live on YouTube at NO COST, "blows chunks". I mean, Prince could learn something by simply going to these band's sites and exploring how they do business. Critics, and fans, wouldn't balk at his constant attempts in the internet based consumer product market. I'm no fan of Pearl Jam, and I can take or leave newer U2 stuff, but I am grown enough to recognize

I mean, there's no doubt Prince is a force to be reckoned with; at least he was at one time. It varies really. I mean, sometimes he's on the money, sometimes he misses the mark. It happens. The man isn't invincible. (MJ showed that theory to the false.) He's just a dude who is incredibly talented, but incredibly limited in some regards. I mean, there's also no doubt he still gets respect from fellow musicians. When he stands up against Mr. Man, how does one expect Mr. Man to react to that? People will only put their hand out so often and get it slapped, before they stop putting it out at all.

I mean, seriously.

PS Madonna gets more respect because she's consistent, she's friendly, she knows how to promote herself and her project when its necessary. She doesn't beat around the bush, blather on about chemical trails in the sky, Jevovah Witness bullshit, etc. Sure, she's had her political or religious moments, but it ended up causing controversy, not vitriol, among fans and critics. And as they say, any press is good press. Obvious that's true to some extent, as her popularity and record sales and fan base far outweight Prince's at this point. Interesting that she watched Prince closely when she started out, and modeled a lot of her career choices on what he had done. Now the student is the teacher, and the teacher - the student.

ernestsewell said:

ok here is tha deal .... first ... prince is rude, journalists not rude .. just stupid ... 2nd who cares if pearl jam and u2 set up right in yer fuckin bedroom and blow u while singing one and cant finda betta man ... they still suck complete ass compared to prince ... and madonna ... again i really cant get thru most of her records and rarely find it at all interesting ... they all blow

is prince a great business man or fan pleaser ... meh .. who knows ... most likely most of his fans are stupid too ... especially when they dont GET what he is doing ideoligically .. he always presents new ideas and just because some of them seem crazy does not mean he was not right ... his flaw was underestimating the public ability to unplug from the matrix ... and i am sure that is frustrating for him ...

but im not really talking about all that ... i am talking about how great A LOT of his work is compared to how bad a lot of the RESPECTED musicians work is ... comparatively prince wipes his ass with what they come up with and every artist puts out crap sometimes ... its just when bob dylan puts out crap he is still bob dylan man ... respect ... when madonna or u2 or dave mathews or pearl jam put out there best work it is deemed GREAT and its pure shit compared to prince best work ... and every one give s those hacks respect as tho they ever did anything on the bob dylan level or beatles level sly stone , james brown .. stevie wonder .. etc.... (they did not but prince did) but prince does not get that respect and it is a result of the publics stupidity NOT the result of prince ... all the classics artists get high respect even if there music is mediocre for years because they reached a certain pinacle thru out the career ... bruce gets that underservedly ... pearljam u2 all underservedly, prince gets treated like an 80s one hit wonder even tho his output still today is better than those supposed "consistant" artist do today ... consistantly shit is all they are good for ..

TrevorAyer said:

ok here is tha deal .... first ... prince is rude, journalists not rude .. just stupid ... 2nd who cares if pearl jam and u2 set up right in yer fuckin bedroom and blow u while singing one and cant finda betta man ... they still suck complete ass compared to prince ... and madonna ... again i really cant get thru most of her records and rarely find it at all interesting ... they all blow

is prince a great business man or fan pleaser ... meh .. who knows ... most likely most of his fans are stupid too ... especially when they dont GET what he is doing ideoligically .. he always presents new ideas and just because some of them seem crazy does not mean he was not right ... his flaw was underestimating the public ability to unplug from the matrix ... and i am sure that is frustrating for him ...

but im not really talking about all that ... i am talking about how great A LOT of his work is compared to how bad a lot of the RESPECTED musicians work is ... comparatively prince wipes his ass with what they come up with and every artist puts out crap sometimes ... its just when bob dylan puts out crap he is still bob dylan man ... respect ... when madonna or u2 or dave mathews or pearl jam put out there best work it is deemed GREAT and its pure shit compared to prince best work ... and every one give s those hacks respect as tho they ever did anything on the bob dylan level or beatles level sly stone , james brown .. stevie wonder .. etc.... (they did not but prince did) but prince does not get that respect and it is a result of the publics stupidity NOT the result of prince ... all the classics artists get high respect even if there music is mediocre for years because they reached a certain pinacle thru out the career ... bruce gets that underservedly ... pearljam u2 all underservedly, prince gets treated like an 80s one hit wonder even tho his output still today is better than those supposed "consistant" artist do today ... consistantly shit is all they are good for ..

FAM ALERT

Outcast? Please. How can a self-professed 'pimp' be an outcast? Never got why the pimp thing was a good idea... the cane, the tootsie pop... Anyway...

Prince burned a lot of bridges back in the day, and was never one to play by the rules. The game players get the recognition. Besides, he said himself: "I don't care to win awards", and he acted accordingly.

He made and continues to make the choice to be where he is. Considering how poorly he seems to treat people, he's done quite well.

yeah but maybe the public burned the bridges with prince ... i mean he is eccentric ... gets a lot o shit ... people love that he brings something new but he takes a lot o flak for it ..

i think Trevor is being very objective about this. Prince's musical talents alone, far surpass that of his peers who receive far more respect and recognition

i also agree that Prince challenged the 'status quo stupidness' of journalists and audience, but may not have reacted well to all the flak.

Prince has received more mockery and cynicism from people, than genuine respect. Maybe the praises he did receive, were given because the other party had something to gain. Not sure.

robinhood said:

i think Trevor is being very objective about this. Prince's musical talents alone, far surpass that of his peers who receive far more respect and recognition

i also agree that Prince challenged the 'status quo stupidness' of journalists and audience, but may not have reacted well to all the flak.

Prince has received more mockery and cynicism from people, than genuine respect. Maybe the praises he did receive, were given because the other party had something to gain. Not sure.

robinhood said

i think Trevor is being very objective about this. Prince's musical talents alone, far surpass that of his peers who receive far more respect and recognition.

godswill said

Prince is so very' talent musically 'but sometimes people can't get Prince. When you are really smart some can't understand and they get' intimated' they want to box you.(it make some people feel comfortable). And some of his peers are in the 'mainstream 'and i bet they wonder why Prince is not. Because maybe( he don't want to be box).

its the music industry, not the "lets discriminate against or completely overlook altogether someone we dont understand or like" industry. there's no excuse for it. really.

Another thing i notice about prince is alot of fans have a hard time separating the performer from the man and that includes me

if all we see is prince the preformer , how are we suppose to judge accordingly?

when i see him dress in these exuberant clothes i cant tell if hes puting on a show or thats just the way he dresses

alot of it has to do with appearances too he doesnt dress in your typical jeans and tee shirt

and if he does we fans never see to much of it.

all of us pretty much wear causal clothes daily so when we see prince in a purple suit with lots of buttons and ruffles we just cant relate

i love when he does interviews because we get a little glimpse of the man behind the music and he comes across as more human

Outcast he is outcast he'll stay u go boy!

Prince is exactly where he should be--respected, liked, admired, rejected, feared, laughed at, worshipped, rich, accepted, free, outcast, essential, disposable, talked about and ignored

robinhood said:

he's not in the songwriter's hall of fame, and it took ages for him to receive recognition in other areas of the music industry. some would say he still hasnt been given his full due. why is that? is it jealousy? and what makes it so difficult for the industry and some of his fans to fully accept him exactly the way he is? or do you think he has been accepted no more or no less than any other artist?

What are you talking about, he was inducted into the RnR Hall of Fame, first year he was eligible.

ernestsewell said:

TrevorAyer said:

ok here is tha deal .... first ... prince is rude, journalists not rude .. just stupid ... 2nd who cares if pearl jam and u2 set up right in yer fuckin bedroom and blow u while singing one and cant finda betta man ... they still suck complete ass compared to prince ... and madonna ... again i really cant get thru most of her records and rarely find it at all interesting ... they all blow

is prince a great business man or fan pleaser ... meh .. who knows ... most likely most of his fans are stupid too ... especially when they dont GET what he is doing ideoligically .. he always presents new ideas and just because some of them seem crazy does not mean he was not right ... his flaw was underestimating the public ability to unplug from the matrix ... and i am sure that is frustrating for him ...

but im not really talking about all that ... i am talking about how great A LOT of his work is compared to how bad a lot of the RESPECTED musicians work is ... comparatively prince wipes his ass with what they come up with and every artist puts out crap sometimes ... its just when bob dylan puts out crap he is still bob dylan man ... respect ... when madonna or u2 or dave mathews or pearl jam put out there best work it is deemed GREAT and its pure shit compared to prince best work ... and every one give s those hacks respect as tho they ever did anything on the bob dylan level or beatles level sly stone , james brown .. stevie wonder .. etc.... (they did not but prince did) but prince does not get that respect and it is a result of the publics stupidity NOT the result of prince ... all the classics artists get high respect even if there music is mediocre for years because they reached a certain pinacle thru out the career ... bruce gets that underservedly ... pearljam u2 all underservedly, prince gets treated like an 80s one hit wonder even tho his output still today is better than those supposed "consistant" artist do today ... consistantly shit is all they are good for ..

FAM ALERT

You gotta admit ernest that some Journalist do as dumb ass questions and ask you something that makes you wanna just haul off and pop em in the mouth and then they wanna say something like "I'm a journalist, it's my job to tell the public the TRUTH". Yeah sure, the TRUTH "you" want us to know. When it comes to P and his music, there's not much more I wanna know except maybe the inspiration of his new album or perhaps what woman is making him pancakes and laying in his bed, maybe ...

Some Journalist do not give you the NEWS they give you some fabricated one sided story.

rudedog said:

robinhood said:

he's not in the songwriter's hall of fame, and it took ages for him to receive recognition in other areas of the music industry. some would say he still hasnt been given his full due. why is that? is it jealousy? and what makes it so difficult for the industry and some of his fans to fully accept him exactly the way he is? or do you think he has been accepted no more or no less than any other artist?

What are you talking about, he was inducted into the RnR Hall of Fame, first year he was eligible.

he's talking about the songwriter's hall of fame.

PurpleLove7 said:

You gotta admit ernest that some Journalist do as dumb ass questions and ask you something that makes you wanna just haul off and pop em in the mouth and then they wanna say something like "I'm a journalist, it's my job to tell the public the TRUTH". Yeah sure, the TRUTH "you" want us to know. When it comes to P and his music, there's not much more I wanna know except maybe the inspiration of his new album or perhaps what woman is making him pancakes and laying in his bed, maybe ...

Some Journalist do not give you the NEWS they give you some fabricated one sided story.

I absolutely agree with the fact that some journalists aren't even mediocre at their jobs.

However, when we go back to the 80's, when Prince was new, and folks were interested in talking to him, it was Prince who kept slapping the hands that reached out to him. There's a brotherhood in the journalistic world, and when word gets around - it gets around. In the 80's, there was still plenty to learn about Prince. Even Prince didn't know the full extent of his own music only being 3 or 4 albums into his career. (Look at the huge difference in sound and style between his first four albums.) It was Prince, early on, pre-purple rain, that started to talk smack with reporters. Was he being funny or sarcastic? Perhaps not. Journalists will write what they hear, but they will also spin it for the good, or for bad. A young artist depended (and still does) heavily on promotion, critics, radio, and press, to get their record heard.

It's one thing for Prince to just not talk to the press. But to put out that he was distrusting of them, or got snippy with them, puts him in a bad light. Look at how 12 little seconds of Aguilera snipping at someone for coughing got out and did a little damage? Look at how ...endless examples exist.

Sure, these days there's little to discuss when it comes to inspiration or idealism. The press has always been fascinated by Prince, as much as they are totally put off and irritated by him. Tides have turned, and they're no-so-fascinated with the young, black phenom from Minneapolis anymore. So that leaves what, for them, in their minds? Irritation. I think the name change, although us fans understood the idea behind it, really did major damage to him, and made him a laughing stock of the industry for years to come. He's been Prince again for what....10 years now? Longer than he was , and they're still making up names for him. Hell, even in the ealry 80's, no one called him "his purple majesty" or a "purple imp". It was just "Prince", and that was enough.

I agree with you in the idea that I don't like the bad press about him anymore than anyone else. The truth should be told, no matter what the truth is; but leave the slant out of it. If the Pioneer Press publishes that he owes people money - so be it. That's news worthy. Is it positive? Let the reader decide, opposed to the journalist putting a negative "purple Drain" slant on it.

Unfortunately we won't get that from the press a lot of times. But Prince is a journalistic outcast because he is partially responsible for that. It takes two to tango. The press' partner was Prince in that dance.

But at this point - Prince doesn't really care probably. He's 52 in a week, and lives his life how he wants. No biggie.

i'm with Ghandi: “I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers.” Mahatma Gandhi

in my opinion, Prince was right to be a smart-ass with them. they asked for it. it didnt do him any favors, but that's their fault, not his.

since when was it ever right for journalists to determine whether or not your credibility as an ARTIST receives its full due. they're in the journalism business, not the music business.

even music journalists arent in the music business. they're supposed to report, not slam bias down the public's throat.

those people have the power to completely ruin your whole LIFE, if they choose to. should they have that kind of power? no, i dont think so.

Oh yes, because Prince has never done anything wrong to anyone ever. He's a genius, he's a God-send, blah blah blah. There's a ton of fans with settled or dismissed court cases that would tell you different. Prince can't handle someone saying anything negative about him. Look how he lashed out at that hag CJ, and Nelson George. Yeah, Prince is innocent.

who Prince is as a person is between him and his maker. the music industry and reporters are not entitled to make that judgment.