Just downloaded Jimi' Axis: Bold as Love and thought the 2 songs sounded alike. Any opinions?

it's possibly because tick tick bang has an uncredited sample of little miss lover

the drum patterns are the same....great drum pattern BTW...I guess Mitch Mitchell came up with that....or probably someone long before him LOL
[Edited 5/11/10 3:03am]

Sampled or replayed, but definitely "borrowed"

Yes. Because Prince sampled the drums on Hendrix's song.

Just like A Tribe Called Quest did with "Scenario".

He didn't sample it, he TOOK it. That's two songs on GB that he's lifted from another. The drums in "Release It" are flat out from "Squib Cakes" by Tower of Power. The more I hear old music, the more I see just how much Prince has used from others without any sort of credit. The thing is though, you can't copyright a drum beat pattern, so he's free to lift and use whatever he wants and call it his own creation. In reality, it makes him cheap like some rap DJ pulling a drum sample from James Brown and calling it his "creation".

ernestsewell said:

Shit! I checked & u're right I always thought Morris had come out with this beat since he's credited as co-writer. Shit, one of P's best beat ever isn't an original

databank said:

Well, for Prince and Morris' defense, after a close listen, they actually had the merit to take an amazing beat that was only used for a few moments on a 7mn track and to make a full song around it. This beat deserved a full song. Not that it makes it better not to have credited it but they were good on this one

ernestsewell said:

I have got to find that Tower of Power song!
In Princes defense back then most did not give credit back then

databank said:

Compare "Schoolyard" and "Squib Cakes" intros

http://www.myvideo.de/wat...QUIB_CAKES

I was listening to the radio recently and a song came on that had the Kiss and When Doves Cry drum beat, dom dom domdom. I guess things get recycled in the msic biz. Thanks for sharing the Tower of Power "Squib Cakes" info. I am endlessly fascinated by music, and how it all flows together. Prince does borrow from others, but he adds something uniquely his own that really makes it pop.

ernestsewell said:

that's true, though I doubt that applies to using the actual recordings

But Charlie Parker did it with entire chord changes, too
[Edited 5/11/10 12:50pm]

ernestsewell said:

No, he sampled it. If you sample something without giving credit it is still a sample and in this case that is what Prince did.

I agree with DecaturStone. I believe it was around 1990 that people had to start crediting samples, prior to that I do not believe anyone credited them. Prince probably just snuck in before that, I don't think there was any malicious intent on his part. I'm not saying that I agree with it but rather than sampling Prince could easily have recreated both drum parts exactly as they are and no one would care. I think you may be overreacting a little bit. What other examples are there of Prince using other artists' music without giving them credit? (Maybe "Mother Popcorn" on "Gett Off?" Otherwise I believe Prince has given full credit for any samples he has used.)
[Edited 5/11/10 13:15pm]

rialb said:

Think again. Sample is looping the original recording into your own (like Janet did with "Thank You" from Sly in "Rhythm Nation"). Prince copied the beats on his own by replaying them exactly as they were. That isn't a sample.

rialb said:

Crediting samples became an issue around that time when Gilbert O'Sullivan, a pop star from the early 70s ("Alone Again (Naturally)" and "Clair") sued Biz Markie for sampling his music and not giving payment or credit. Biz lost the suit and cleverly titled his next album "All Samples Cleared."

I remember people at the time thought O'Sullivan was a jerk, an old fossil stifling rappers and trying to cash in. But it was his song, so of COURSE he should cash in! Queen and David Bowie weren't initially credited on "Ice Ice Baby" either. I have no problem with sampling but the original artist should always receive credit.

Prince also did some sampling on Graffiti Bridge for "Thieves In The Temple;" that harmonica is lifted from, I believe, an old Isley Brothers record (need to look up the exact track).

Prince only started crediting samples in 1992. There are a few uncredited ones before that. A few that come to mind are:

"Love... thy will be done" samples Cocteau Twins
"Rave un2 the joy fantastic" samples Gary Numan
"Gett off" samples En Vogue
"Mad" samples Headshock
"Release it" samples Tower Of Power
"Tick tick bang" samples Jimi Hendrix

Rioub said:

What songs?

ernestsewell said:

To be clear when you say Prince replayed them are you saying he sat down at the drums and played and recorded new versions that sounded exactly like the originals? I'm not sure, to my ears it sounds like he just used the original recordings by the original artists.

rialb said:

I don't believe he sampled the original recording.

rialb said:

He did. I believe Mr. Sewell is just caught up in semantics regarding sampling. If anything, Prince chopped up the drums and reprogrammed them, which actually doesn't sound like the case.

CocoRock said:

If he was that blatant, TOP and whoever else would have come after him.

ernestsewell said:

Maybe today, but as an earlier post stated, legal cases started cropping up in 1990, most likely after GB dropped.


PS. At first when I saw blatant TOP, I wondered how the thread switched to Prince's sexual role preference.

ernestsewell said:

In order:
"Fifty Fifty Clown"
"Remember I Was Vapour"
"Hold On"
"Beebop Ta Hip Hop"

Rioub said:

I don't hear any similarity w/ the Cocteau Twins.
I'm not totally buying the Gary Numan sample.
I've heard the En Vogue thing before and don't hear it.

Also uses the Tower Of Power sample...

squirrelgrease said:

Interesting chart, although it kinda gives me a headache.

Is "Bob George" really sampled in "Like a Prayer"?

Funny that they included "La La Means I Love You." Seems like that would go without saying.

Efan said:

Thanks 4 that

Prince has supposedly sampled many times (not recreated).

It would be interesting to post file samples of the original bits of the source songs/music.

Efan said:

Yeah, it's kind of an oddly arranged chart. La La Means I Love You is a weird inclusion unless there is an actual sample from the original song in Prince's version. I don't know the validity of the samples cited, but I noticed Release It is absent.