vitriol said:

That's because I'm already out of words, and tired...

Some things that I've said before, including "weighty" reasons (we're talking about music anyway), as you say:

"the album was strong (much better than Musicology anyway), the production was hip, the song order was perfect, and it had plenty of different styles (pop singles, electro, funk, soul, rock, salsa, etc.)"...

"3121 was the best mainstream album that Prince could do at that point of his career...WE NEED mainstream albums from time to time...we also need stuff like TRC and LotusFlower, but without albums like 3121 the man's career would be just "

"What are you expecting at this point of his career? A new When Doves Cry? a dance single as memorable and catchy as U Got the Look?? pleeeease! we should be thankful for an album like 3121, and, to a lesser extent, LotusFlower..."

"We're talking about a VETERAN artist that started his career during the late-70s!!! That Prince could, in 2006, write/arrange/produce nice/strong tracks like 3121, Black Sweat, Love, Fury, The Word, The Dance, etc. is something we should be happy about. That's what I mean,...
Black Sweat is no Kiss, but it's a fun/worthy dance jam, and that's just one example... "

vitriol said:

And I've never said that nobody should like Lovesexy, Emancipation, or Rave...


BUT YEAH: ANYONE HAS TO LIKE 3121...

JoeTyler said:

JoeTyler said:

Alright, then why insist so much with 3121? It really isn't worth a 3-page thread...
[Edited 5/19/10 14:38pm]

JoeTyler said:

Uh yeah...keep telling yourself that.

Sowhat said:

truth hurts

JoeTyler said:

Me against the 3121 haters...what a titanic quest

I feel like a hero...

JoeTyler said:

Really...WOW...really

vitriol said:

oh my gosh... AGAAAAAIN??

this is whY!:

"We're talking about a VETERAN artist that started his career during the late-70s!!! That Prince could, in 2006, write/arrange/produce nice/strong tracks like 3121, Black Sweat, Love, Fury, The Word, The Dance, etc. is something we should be happy about. That's what I mean,...
Black Sweat is no Kiss, but it's a fun/worthy dance jam, and that's just one example... "

Sowhat said:

I'll defeat the 3121 haters, I have powerful allies, and the power of the mainstream masses...

Once there was a very ilustrative thread in Housequake.com. It was a question for old timers.

The scenario was more or less the following:

"Imagine Prince is an emerging artist whose first 3 records were Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth.

Do you think those 3 records would hook you and make you became a devoted fan?"

Most of the posters said: 'I don't think so'.

And I think that says something.

JoeTyler said:

If that was just what you had said I don't think people would have such a problem with it. But you said that people HAVE to like 3121, big difference.

JoeTyler said:

vitriol said:

EXACTLY!! But of course! That proves that we, the 3121 lovers, are right!

3121 was STRONG & WORTHY for veteran artist that started his career in the late-70s!! 3121 IS A MUST HAVE!!!

vitriol said:

Man alive. I got distracted for a minute and came back to reply to Vitriol's post and I've already missed another 15 posts.

Any way, Joe - I usually agree with you on a lot of things musically. I like select tracks on Musicology and Lotus, so I'm not a modern day Prince hater. We just view the merits of this particular album differently.

For a quick diversion, what tracks do you and Vitriol like off Stevie's Time to Love?

1 - For me If Your Love Can Not Be Moved is a MONSTER track.

2 - Tell Your Heart and My Love is On Fire are excellent

3 - So What the Fuss, Shelter In The Rain and Positivity are good.

4 - The rest range from meh to "Heavens to Murgatroid" NOOOOO!!!

vitriol said:

That's an interesting topic.

Because I love love LOVE "What Do You Want Me To Do" and the title track, (sorry I know most people think Musicology the song is total cheese, but I love it), I would say that I would have definitely been interested and bought his follow up record.

But 3121 amd Planet Earth did so very little for me, that there's no way I would just out and out buy his next album like I do now.

He's earned the respect from me that I buy everything unquestionably today.

But if those were his first three albums there is no way I'd be a devoted fan.

@ Joe Tyler:

Well, then there's an implied fact expressed in your statements: you think the one who's jaded is Prince.

You say we are 'forced' to love 3121 because it comes from an artist with a 30+ year career behind.

I'm not so negative: I think Prince still makes good music. But he chooses not to release it.

As I said earlier in this thread, I think Prince is going the wrong route by trying to please the use & dump youngsters. He's releasing music for them, he wants them to know he exists, is 'hip', and able to make the (run of the mill) music those consumers demand.

I'm sure in the long run that public won't last as followers. Then Prince will have to resort to devote himself to the 17 people in the world that still remember him for what he's worth. Then we can have another album like TRC and another tour like ONA.
[Edited 5/19/10 14:59pm]

Fenwick said:

I just love A TIME TO LOVE It has that sweet retro-modern production and nice electronic tricks that were extremely cool and refreshing.

So What the Fuss was a strong single that updated Stevie's sound and made him a badass again If Your Love Cannot Be Moved and My Love is on Fire are nearly as good...
Shelter in the Rain and Sweetest Somebody I Know are excellent ballads, but I'm not that excited about the rest of the album (and Passionate Teardrops is a dud); and perhaps there are too many slow numbers (I'd have prefered more tracks like Positivity), but as a whole, is an inspired, beautifully produced and WORTHY later-day Stevie effort...JUST LIKE 3121 IS!!!

Anyway

3121 > A Time to Love

Fenwick, I'm afraid we wouldn't agree on A Time 2 Love tracks...

Moon Blue is one of the best in the album for me. So is Sweetest Somebody I Know.

IYLCBMoved, Positivity and A Time To Love are good as well.

Heck, I even like From The Bottom Of My Heart!

But the rest, even if there are good tracks thrown in, I think it's a bit piano ballad-loaded. Some songs are much too similar. I can't really feel Stevie shine on them like I'm sure he knows to. Especially after a (desperate) 10 year 'lapsus' since Conversation Piece.

C'mon! I was so excited the day I bought the album that I was listening to it on repeat when I heard the doorbell ring. It was the police!! Other neighbours in the block had them come to tell me to turn down the volume. In the listening ecstasy I didn't realize it was already 1 AM!!

But after all the anticipation I had built around the album, the final result left me a bit lukewarm. Good but not what I expected. Not what I know Stevie can really do if he wants. Just like Prince.

vitriol said:

Ahhh, you have finally shown your true colors...TRC and NOA...fuck youngsters...hmmm

to each his own, but as I've said before: we need cerebral stuff like TRC, but we also need "Prince: the happy hitmaker: Musicology/3121"

Peace

Well, er... I wouldn't call him exactly a hitmaker because of those albums.

Depite being #1 for some time, I'm sure the average Joe (no pun intended ) wouldn't remember any of those tracks if he ever got to hear them somewhere.

Who outside the self-regarded fan circle (longtimers or newcomers) really got 'hit' by those albums?

vitriol said:

well that's true, not monster hits, but I nearly cried when the got a Nº1 album again and that surely made him truly popular again, at least in the UK & the States...

JoeTyler said:

sort of. Prince has a lot of fans. If they all buy the album the first week it can go #1 in this depressed music market

It would have been more impressive if it moved up the charts from word of mouth or from a hot single. That would say to me that he's popular again, but that hasn't happened for a long time
[Edited 5/19/10 15:35pm]

NDRU said:

But I still think that 3121 was a nº1 for a reason! (the promo of Black Sweat maybe?) I mean, Musicology and PE were not Nº1 , and of course LF/MPLS has been a flop, sort of, in terms of sales...

NDRU said:

Totally agree!
[Edited 5/19/10 15:48pm]

Well, let's wait and see how long that 'popularity' lasts.

I'm sure many 'Musicology Tour converts' can't identify with a (nearly) 52 y/o that's playing many celebrity-only gigs, that makes the public travel for a couple of festivals instead of touring he himself, who's preaching this but doing that.

He's aiming at the wrong target. I just hope that when he faces that fact there are some of us still willing to give him another chance.

JoeTyler said:

Yes, I do. The difference is that I'm one of those fans who actually think Prince farts.

Of course, how could LF/MPLS not be a commercial flop when you can only buy the album at Target in the States and only months later saw an European release in France?

If you WANT people to buy something, make it EASY for them to buy it.

If we add to that the fact that it was far from being amongst his best works you get the picture.