vitriol said:

It's nearly impossible for me to disagree with your overall sentiment.

Many moons ago I started a thread about what was Prince's last really original composition. My vote was for "What Do You Want Me To Do" off Musicology. (I'd actually be curious to know yours). That was obviously 6 years ago. And before that, you'd have to go back to ONA Piano. And before that, well... you get my drift.

So we are largely in agreement. I do however think that Lotus flower, while not terribly innovative/original had some good tracks on it. Boom, Colonized Mind, $, Wall of Berlin.

Mind you, none of them are stellar, but they are good songs that I can pop in the CD and listen to in entirety.

3121/Planet Earth are definitely lackluster from top to bottom for me. I'm REALLY stretching it when I say I like a few tunes on them. Behind New Power Soul, they are the worst in his catalog to me, (sorry Joe). Every time I put them in the CD player I hope to find some new gem that I may have missed in year's past. And everytime I wind up hitting the skip button after the first minute of each tune.

To be clear, it's not that they are cringefests, (like say, LIfe of the Party off Musicology), they're just uninspired.

For me Musicology has a couple of turds, a couple of gems , and a bunch of songs that are OK/good.

You question made me think a bit...

As far as recent tracks go, I think the last time I heard something that sounded like 'my old Prince' was with 3121 -the track. I agree with whomever said before it shouldn't have been on that album. There's nothing else on the album that can really peer this track. I just doesn't belong there.

Whilst it was nothing to write home about, it had that kinda 'only-Prince' ring to it. I must admit I usually loved Prince's 1 or 2 chord efforts. He really masters them.

That said, the last time I heard really outstanding material was with TRC (lyrical contents -which I don't care about- aside).

Before that -if we don't consider 'Crystal Ball' as recent output since the bulk of if comes from two of his most interesting past eras- I think I'd have to travel back to TGE to find some of those 'only-Prince-could've-dunnit' songs.

who hates 3121? ive never seen any complaints reguarding this album on here

but other wise, i love this album

it may his most popular, but isn't his best. in fact, it's his weakest since the "comeback" I think.

I LOVE 3121, Black Sweat, Love, and The Word. But Lolita is crap. Incense & Candles is desperate pandering. Satisfied may be the most obvious, uninspired retread of his career, despite the tongue-in-cheek lyrics. Fury is incredibly weak and watered-down on the album. BL&B is decent and catchy, but goes on forever, never really getting anywhere. The Dance is way too overwrought while at the same time sounding phoned in. Not a huge fan of his Latin jazz meanderings either, which brings us to the latin funk of Get On The Boat which sounds good on paper but completely loses me about a minute in.


I think all of his other albums from Musicology on are much better (even PE) and overall, 3121 sounds WAY too slick to me. Even the songs I don't like would be better without all the slick overproduction that sucks the life & soul out of them.

I don't hate it. But it's the NPS/Rave of this decade.
[Edited 5/19/10 10:49am]

errant said:

Not really buying this comment, kind of lacking in real detail to me, To me Fury is great track, so to Get on the Boat ... the album is very strong and much better than Musicology as an album...it flows, yes weak jams like I&C but that's Prince he's never been a strong "Album" kind of artist because he puts so many types of music styles in his Albums it's hard to get the right balance ...but i'm not gonna knock him for it as that what makes Prince - Prince no other artist can do this and be true to the music, it's always Prince's best take on that style of music.

3121 does work on a number of levels as an Album - hence i can see why it's sold so many copies.

His best "album" in the 00's is TRC without question

funkomatic said:

Pretty much the same for me, except...

3121: Leaves me completely cold. Too slow and turgid to be a good opener. Sounds like it is playing at the wrong speed.

Black Sweat: Gets very dull very quickly.

Fury: All of the fire and excitement has been produced out of it. The live performances were great, but on record it sounds too "clean" and polished.

For me, it's a hugely disappointing album. Can't remember when I last played it - probably about a month after it came out.

Nasalhair said:

You need to dig it out, Turn up the Bass, Turn up the volume and play just as the sun is setting....you'll love it...the funk just come out and kicks you

JoeTyler said:

I quite like the title track, it's got a NPS kinda vibe to it, but it's nothing OUTSTANDING, heard it all before, and better.

JoeTyler said:

So incredibly over-rated, and actually quite boring. This is Prince covering Prince, with the current pop market in mind - see also: MPLSound.

JoeTyler said:

Catchy, but nowhere near as hooky as it could be. Really rather chintzy, when it should be a ballsout rocker. Prince hears something in these rock tracks that makes him want to chuck in synths and sound effects that water down the overall effect. Less is more, do a dirty live take with Sonny and Michael B and chuck it on a record warts and all - that's what's missing here.

JoeTyler said:

Gave it a whirl again recently after the appreciation thread on here, and still found it incredibly lacking, unexciting, one dimensional and soul-LESS..... Next.

JoeTyler said:

Seriously? This is a carbon copy of the lazy soul throwback from Musicology ('On The Couch'?) - Heard it all before, quite literally in this case.

JoeTyler said:

More tuneless lacklustre BS. Sounds like a mid-90s Michael Jackson track or something from Emancipation - this is not a compliment.


I will also give you Lolita, since it is a fun little track, self-referential to the point of parody, but enjoyable in a way that Black Sweat isn't (for me).

JoeTyler said:

I'd say marginally better, marginally.

JoeTyler said:

Erm, no it wasn't. If you mean the squealy synth on Black Sweat and the vocoder stuff - that shit was OLD and all over the pop charts years before 3121 was even a twinkle... the very opposite of hip.

JoeTyler said:

This isn't a reason why it's great, it's an EXCUSE as to why it barely passes. Why is 'the best he could do at that point'? I don't see the reasoning for this statement.

JoeTyler said:

You don't have to, if you like it, that should be enough. Enjoy it for both of us!

Many interesting / bizarre / impossible answers so far...

To the 3121 lovers: I Love U

To the 3121 haters: do you seriously think that PE and LF/MPLS are better than 3121??? At least nobody has said that Musicology is better than 3121 because it clearly isn't (Musicology is just ok and too predictable for its own good...)

Love clearly kills any dance jam of Emancipation, Satisfied is an improvement over In the Couch and The Word is a highlight of his 00s career, like it or not...

Oh, and it's funny how many people here enjoy tracks like Hot With U or My Computer but thrashes songs like Black Sweat or Love

Let's put it this way: a Prince fan must enjoy 3121, just as any Stones fan enjoys A Bigger Bang, any Stevie fan enjoys A Time to Love, or any Dylan fan enjoys Modern Times. Period That's why I can't understand the 3121 haters... What are you expecting at this point of his career? A new When Doves Cry? a dance single as memorable and catchy as U Got the Look?? pleeeease! we should be thankful for an album like 3121, and, to a lesser extent, LotusFlower...
[Edited 5/19/10 12:36pm]

3121 is a good album , i like it

JoeTyler said:

JoeTyler said:

Wow... A Prince fan MUST enjoy 3121 or what???? They are not a fan in your eyes?

And in your second part of this statement it sounds like we should settle and be greatful for what we get at this point.

Now I generally like 3121, but I don't believe a Prince fan MUST like it. Nor do I feel that we have to settle and be greatful for whatever we get a this point.

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

Sowhat said:

Eh...no; maybe something else, called them "Extremely Objective/Critical & Truly Interested Followers of His Music" if u want to, but not fans...

I mean, what's the point of "beign" a Prince "fan" if you are sooooo jaded that you can't appreciate strong & enjoyable efforts like 3121??? What are those people looking for? SERIOUSLY!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU LOOKING FOR!!??
[Edited 5/19/10 13:21pm]

How can anyone say Black Sweat is a classic?

I guess if Prince made an album out of recorded farts, some fans would still acclaim it! Well, actually, to those fans , Prince doesn't fart.

MOL said:

and do you call yourself a fan?

3121: a comercial for his las vegas club ... A COMERCIAL fuck u prince
Lolita: prince is proud of himself for turning down an underage girl ooooh prince u've come a long way ... not ... gross subject and lyrics
Te Amo Corazon: pretty good
Black Sweat: canned computer drums uh ... dumb lame undancable crap
Incense And Candles: worst lyric flow eva
Love: great chorus ruined by verse section being too stupid
Satisfied: another insatiable on the couch scandelous etc.... cookie cutter crap
Fury: not bad could be better as snl showed
The word: christian pop lite uhhhh
Beautiful, Loved & Blessed: one of my favs on the record
The Dance: too hmmmm how u say ... blah long goes no where endless wining
Get On The Boat: pretty man redux mediocre at best

on the whole ... another ok record ruined by shallow stupid annoying egocentric lyrics that have nothing to do with making music

JoeTyler said:

So you are the self appointed King of judgement as to what a Prince fan constitutes....OK.

A Prince fan IMHO is not defined by liking or disliking a single song or album or "Era".


And I can flip your statement to say "you are so blinded that you appreciate every single thing Prince puts out no matter what".
[Edited 5/19/10 13:34pm]

Track for track it may be his best album of the decade, but I prefer TRC for the music & oddness.

3121 has a few key problems for me.

First, Lolita is just a little too easy. It's an okay groove, but the song is just a bit lazy. Lolita/sweet-a? plus I don't believe the lyrics I believe Prince would hit it!

Te Amo kills the momentum way too soon, and, again, the song is just too run of the mill. Standard melody, standard lyrics, nothing very interesting.

Black Sweat is cool, but has caused me permanant hearing loss.

Beautiful Loved & Blessed is fine, but again kills the momentum of the album which had been building nicely up to that point. Should have been a B-Side

Get ON The Boat--eh, I actually kind of like it, but I get the hatred of it. It's a little cheesy. But the bass is hot!

All in all there are some really good tracks, and the songwriting is fairly strong & consistent. The production hurts it in places (3121, Black Sweat); I feel MPLSound/Lotus is a much nicer sound and more consistently Prince-sounding.

One thing that bugs me is the notion that he somehow "ruined" Fury. People are looking at it totally backward.

He took a decent track from the album and made it better live. He did NOT take a great live track and sanitize it for the record.

Sowhat said:

No, I'm not, that's JUST my opinion: if a so called Prince "fan" dislikes 3121, for me it clearly means that this individual doesn't give a damn about the man's music ANYMORE (or at least, that he/she doesn't give a damn about his mainstream records anymore, which is sad...)

Sowhat said:

Did I say that? Did I say that? I have said many times that Emancipation's production is HORRIBLE, that Chaos is uninspired, that Rave is uneven, that Lovesexy was misguided, etc...I'm only sayin' that, AT HIS POINT OF HIS CAREER, 3121 is BRILLIANT and WORTHY. So What the Fuss is not Living for the City, but we like it anyway, RIIIIIGHt!!!????


!!!!!

JoeTyler said:

Not sure if you're really this animated about this topic, or you're just trying to

But I for one enjoy Musicology INFINITELY more than 3121. And that doesn't mean Musicology is a masterpiece by any means. It just has a few gems on it whereas 3121 has ZERO gems.

Granted, the lows are lower on Musicology, but there ARE NO HIGHS FOR ME on 3121. The whole thing is one huge pile of "meh".

And if we're going to throw Stevie in to the mix, A TIme To Love has 3 spectacular songs on it, 2 or 3 good tracks, and a bunch of crap. And that is after being away for 10 years. Prince goes away for 6 months and people say they are bored.....

Either way, I have every Prince album on the planet and think he's one of the most important musicians to grace this earth.

3121 just happens to be my 3rd or 4th least favorite album from him.

It's really not that big a deal.

JoeTyler said:

Just because someone doesn't like a particular album, that does not mean they don't give a damn anymore. You just admitted that you don't like Emancipation, Chaos, etc....so are you not a fan then? Do you not give a damn then?

Many feel strongly that Lovesexy is among his best work...so how could you not appreciate strong & enjoyable efforts like Lovesexy???

Eveyone has different tastes, likes, preferrences, etc.....some Love 3121, some like it, some dislike it, some hate it....same for Emancipation, Chaos, etc....


And I know you did not say "you are so blinded that you appreciate every single thing Prince puts out no matter what", I flipped it because you were stating that just because someone didn't like 3121 they were jaded.
[Edited 5/19/10 14:01pm]

Fenwick said:

But it is! Oh yeah...IT ISSS!

We're talking about a VETERAN artist that started his career during the late-70s!!! That Prince could, in 2006, write/arrange/produce nice/strong tracks like 3121, Black Sweat, Love, Fury, The Word, The Dance, etc. is something we should be happy about. That's what I mean,...
Black Sweat is no Kiss, but it's a fun/worthy dance jam, and that's just one example...

But I shouldn't be that surprised/angry: for some time now, many orgers and pseudo-fans have been shitting on the whole Musicology-3121-PE era. So I'll repeat it again: What's the point of being a Prince fan if you just can't enjoy 3121, which is, OBJECTIVELY, his best album of the "comeback" trilogy?? WHAT'S THE POINT!!!!!???? At least some of you enjoy Musicology, good for you...

So many jaded folks around here (hey, to each his own), HELL: I'm sure that many folks around here would shit on Sexy MF or Peach had them been released in 2006 ... "Sexy MF, oh so bland and predictable, the man has released much better funk tracks before" or "Ahjj, Peach, what a shitty/cheesy rock song" and blah blah blah, muh muh muh bingo bango jumbo jambo...pffff

Joe Tyler, you cathegorize things in such a way that it seems you have the absolute truth and nothing else is valid.

You should have ended each one of your daring assessments with 'because my ass says so. Period'.

As stated before, you say nobody is a real fan if he doesn't like 3121 yet there are some albums you yourself diss. Even Lovesexy!!

I'm afraid when it comes to personal tastes there's NOTHING to say but stating what one likes or dislikes. And all the literature in the world won't convince me that 3121 is a great album.

Just for the record, I think Musicology was much less terrible than 3121. And being a devote Stevie fan for 30 years and after 10 years waiting, A Time 2 Love was, with few exceptions, a kind of a let down for me.

And yet I can only define myself as a huge huge Prince and Stevie fan. That doesn't mean I'm willing to lick either one's ass, though.

Sowhat said:

But 3121 is a special case...

3121 MUST be appreciated as a nice/enjoyable pop comeback after several years in the dark, releasing odd/cerebral music (TRC, ONA) that was interesting but not extremely entertaining... that's what I say that if a folk dislikes 3121, he/she's jaded...

JoeTyler said:

YES.

JoeTyler said:

That isn't saying much.

JoeTyler said:

'Hot Wit' U' is complete piece of shit, and one of the worst things he's EVER put out - I will give you that, that BS and Love are at the very least, better than Rave's worst abortion.

JoeTyler said:

I don't expect anything, but when I buy a sucky album, I'll say so.

Err, not saying you brought this up at all, but I'll include this disclaimer, since ever time someone criticises a recent(ish) release, some nut starts demanding they leave the site if they no longer think Prince's new releases are made from unicorn tears and angel pussy juice: Prince albums of the past decade I've liked: TRC, ONA, Xpectation, NEWS, PE, Lotus. Basically, the only ones I didn't like on the whole are Musicology, 3121 and MPLSound.

vitriol said:

I'm talking about 3121 and the current level of "fan" enjoyment about the man's 04-07 music...especially '06 and 3121...

And I know I'm weird cuz I don't like Lovesexy...but I'm not jaded because I still can dance to something like Black Sweat

Peace

^But you keep on the same line.

You're trying to say you're entitled to dislike certain albums but EVERYBODY HAS TO like 3121...

...because your ass says so.

Whilst you keep on being unable to offer more weighty reasons your only resources will keep on being repeating yourself and namecalling. And that's not quality discussion.

vitriol said:

Exactly!