So I was listening to the ONA Live CDs on the way to work today, and I was thinking to myself, "I wonder how many people went to that concert and left feeling utterly unfulfilled".

To the rabid Prince fan, hearing a pretty obscure set list of tracks has got to be great, But considering the Rainbow Children isn't exactly his mot popular album on the planet, I'd have to imagine the every day fan who shelled out good money to go see him would not have been too thrilled with all of the hits that weren't played. Too many jazzy meandering tunes that went on for three-four-eight minutes longer than they should have to the average listener.

Conversely, then you fast forward to the Musicology tour. And what a fan pleasing extravaganza the audience experienced. Almost all of the hits were played. Very high energy shows aimed at crowd pleasing. But the hard core fan is probably left feeling a little let down by the commercialization of the whole thing.

So where does one draw the line?

I remember reading a quote from Billy Joel to Elton John a few years ago where Joel told Elton to stop trying to inject newer material into his set lists. To paraphrase, he basically told Elton that people didn't come to hear his latest tune. They came to hear Bennie and the Jets. So give the people what they want.

So what do you guys think? Is there a fine line between the two? Was Prince's ONA tour too self indulgent and would/should concert goers have a right to be pissed off at the lack of "popular" material? Or should the general public be more receptive to whatever artistic space the musician is in at that time and just go with the flow?

I think that the Prince fan/casual concert goer should just be grateful for every show of his they can attend. I would be upset if i went to see him and he spent 2 hours shitting into a bucket with drums over the top of it, but so long as he is playing real music, however meandering he chooses it to be, we should be grateful.

It's a good question. I suppose a perfect balance of both is the answer. You'll never please everybody, but by playing both popular and new stuff you'll probably reach the majority of a mixed audience. Familiar and not so familiar fans. The hard core will always be more open and receptive and should be. The casuals should also just appreciate some new sounds for their ears. When Prince performs it's generally always good so I can't see anyone feeling unfulfilled unless they weren't really a fan to begin with.
[Edited 5/14/10 9:18am]

re: Musicology tour

When he changed "Baby I'm A Star" into a low-key jazzy Musak number, I kind of lost a lot of faith in his ability to objectively look at his own music, and even try to recreate it in an interesting and crowd-appealing way. Music didn't die on that tour, but it suffered a major stroke.

I don't know (or care) how the casual fan feels like.

As a die-hard of the ole good stuff and not having attended either of them, from listening to boots I can say I absolutely loved the ONA Tour and absolutely hated the Musicology Tour (and anything he did live or on record since then).

I think the onus is on the concert-goer to find out what they're buying tickets to see before they plunk down their money, if they're picky. With the internet, there's no excuse these days. If Prince is doing a theater tour after releasing his latest obscure album, one shouldn't expect a parade of hits. On the other hand, if he's doing an arena tour after releasing a high-profile, commercially-minded album, popular song choices would be expected. It's just common sense.

I like the fact that Prince is versatile and can flip back and forth between his self-indulgent artistic and commercial minds, even though I prefer ONA-style concerts over hits-laden shows.

vitriol said:

See, that's why I'm asking though.

I think it was completely ballsy of him to do a tour like that. Regardless of the fact that I didn't paricularly care for the content of the some of the Rainbow children tracks, to play for two and and half hours a night and really only play 45 minutes worth of stuff that's more well known is risky. (Which for me = great).

But for the average fan of music who hears Prince is coming to town, he could easily lose LEGIONS of fans to this kind of self indulgent trip.

So while people like you and I may not care, (and actually prefer this course), is it a good thing for him to do when the downside is you risk pissing off half your fan base?

ernestsewell said:

Unlike Vitriol, I rather liked seeing Prince bask in the glory of his accomplishments during the Musicology tour. Granted, the set list wasn't exactly a field of dreams moment by any stretch, but there's no shadow of a doubt that the lion's share of the crowd left happy.

So I understand what you're saying but I didn't leave that show thinking the music died. I just left thinking he was really doing something to please his fan base and not really challenging himself.

Bohemian67 said:

This is kind of where I sit on the issue too. If I had my dream set list, there would probably only be a small handful of top 40 hits played.

But in Prince's case, he went to both extremes with these two tours.

Although my set list would have been vastly different, I far preferred the ONA Tour.

in my humble analysis, one of the reasons Prince is shunned by sections of the hegemonic media, is for his stubborn insistance on being true to his art/his craft...while others r jumping on trends/fads

Fenwick said:

Yeah, this kinda reminds me of the line "If you come to get your Purple Rain on, you in the wrong house" that line by itself sets the tone for the tour. I unfortunately was not able to attend (wifey was very pregnant). I was happy to see he came to South Florida and I agree with you, if you were looking to relive the teenage glory days it wasn't happening that tour but, the kid was in rare form during that tour ...

Fenwick said:

He stopped doing that just over 10 years ago.

Ah Fenwick. What a great thread my friend. I believe balance is the most logical solution, as you and Bohemian67 suggest. I own both ONA Box Set and TRC, but keep finding reasons not to break them out; so many have voiced mediocre to negative opinions about both and I really want to like them when I do listen. If I'm ever fortunate enough to see Prince live again, the balanced setlist would be ideal for me. There are songs on other albums I haven't liked, but have fallen in love with when hearing him perform them live. Now that my skeleton is out of the closet and I've given my , I can sleep better tonight.
ps. When I order your cd, are you going to autograph it for me?

Elle85n09 said:

Well hello there

Thanks for the compliment. I was thinking this would be a good starting point for a back and forth.

Oh and with regards to the CD, sure thing I'd be happy to sign it. But something tells me my signiing it would actually bring the value down!!!!!

Fenwick said:

Good idea for a thread. I'm with Fenwick (and probably most of the hardcore fan base) in that I would prefer a Prince concert of relatively unknown material. Might be why I gravitate to those aftershow and ONA tour boots.

How many times has Prince started a tour by proclaiming it was the "last time he would play the hits"? A bunch. The guy's gotta make that cheddar, and he needs to make that statement to bring in all our friends who only know Prince from Purple Rain.

Maybe these one-off shows of the last couple years are a good way of satisfying both crowds, make a big check and keep wear and tear on his body to a minimum.

Fenwick said:

4 one thing, i'm familiar with Prince's entire catalogue so weither he plays "Kiss" or "Freaks On This Side" don't make much of a difference 2 me. 2 be honest i don't really want 2 hear "Let's Go Crazy", "Kiss" or "Purple Rain" for the 100th time and i'd be quite disappointed if he plays the hits on july 9th. While a familiar song is nice 2 hear here & there, he could plays unreleased material or jazz improvisations all along, i wouldn't mind as long as the music's good.

databank said:

Although i am not attending his summer shows, i agree with you about not really wanting to hear the hits over and over, as you say.....so long as the music is good. In saying that, if he were to play a set of hits the next time i see him, i would not complain.

MikeyB71 said:

I think the majority of us hardcore fans who know his entire catalog would dream up a set list that included 80 to 90 percent album/obscure tracks, and then maybe a couple of the more popular tunes that suit our personal fancy.

This is pretty much what he did on ONA (outside the Piano medley). Granted it wasn't exactly my personal set list of dreams, but it was still a ballsy thing to do.

Like Squirrelgrease said, he's got to make that cheddar. So when he followed up ONA with Musicology and did a 180, I imagine most of the hardcores felt like it was a very "cheesy" thing to do. (Get it Squirrel? Cheddar - cheesy)?

Any way, my strong preference is the ONA format, but again, I actually really enjoyed watching Prince bask in the glory of his accomplishments during the Musicology tour, despite being disappointed by the "greatest hits" set list..

I actually saw him on that tour in Seattle, Dallas, and Shreveport LA, and have watched the Live at The Staples Center DVD a number of times. You get genuinely tell he was enjoying himself. And that can never be a bad thing.