In my opinion it wasn't as bad as the critics said it was.
And it was promoted pretty well.


Prince even appeared on TRL, though he got his ass served to him by
Carson when he tried to call Carson out on something immediately
after Carson handed him a compliment. I've seldom ever seen Prince
put in his place by an interviewer--certainly Tavis lick-my-ass
Smily wouldn't do it. But Carson served him right.


But it was promoted. It wasn't a 'terrible' record. And all the songs
were relatively radio-friendly.


It even had guest performers and musicians on the CD, much in the fashion
of Carlos Santana's album--but Carlos feature those musicians while Prince
sort of buried them the fuck down in the mix.
But regardless, it was promoted as such.


So, why did his return to commercially backed pop fail with Rave?

Besides Greatest I really don't think it was radio friendly and those hair bows didn't help

nursev said:

!!!!


U didn't think "So Far, So Pleased" or "Pretty Man" had a shot?

nursev said:

I feel like my eyes have gonorrhea!

TheVoid said:

Prettyman is a cool song,but it definitely would have made him alittle suspect to this younger generation-but still a cool ass song! Hell no to So Far

TheVoid said:

nursev said:

The Sun The Moon and stars?
Man'o'war?


I found the songs to be by-the-numbers and safe, but still catchy enough for radio play.

TheVoid said:

Man O War is great but that still smell thing woulda killed that Seriously, the album is nice-I think what really killed it was Prince hanging out with Ananda Lewis

i always wondered how prince managed to use the restroom in that blue jumpsuit, he must have always had someone unzip the back or maybe there was some type of zipper in the private area

Weak lead single. Terrible album. No video. No tour. Stupid outfit. Ridiculous interviews. Boring TV performances.

He had been out of the mainstream too long at the time. His return to an actual label even it being lead by ClivezzzzDavis, was not enough time to have him fully welcomed back.

TheVoid said:

I haven't seen that interview in over 10 years, but I remember Prince owning Carson Daly. Am I totally off on this one ? Is this interview anywhere to be found ?

errant said:

I was STUNNED at the weak lead single.


I love TGRES, but it's one of those songs that, despite having a cool melody, take way way way too long to deliver the goods. The music environment at the time could never tolerate you having to sit through 60 seconds of a song before the hook.



But promotion is everything, and it was certainly promoted.

anthonyxanzaldo said:

yes, you are.

Prince got PWNED like hell.


Carson introduced him, then cmoplimented him.
IN his compliment, Carson said something to the affect that in a time of plastic throwaway music, his music stood the test of time because it was real.

Prince, probably misunderstanding him said, "what?" and looked at him all diva like and asked him to explain.

So Carson explained again.

The Prince said, "I suppose you don't have anything to do with that do you?"


At which point most hosts would have just laughed it off or nodded to Prince, but Carson PWNED his ass. Carson said, "Look, it's like being a bartender. I may not like the drinks I'm serving, but that's what my customers are asking for."

Essentially, he said, don't point your fey ass fingers at me, fool.


Prince response was a very weak, self-concious, and idiotic shrug and "If yo say so."

The atmosphere was very tense and Carson seemed in control, but Prince looked nervous and mousy. It really didn't go well for Prince.

It was even commented on in the Press and I saw a snippet on VH-1, none of which painted Prince as the WINNAR.



Seriously, it was brilliant. Prince had gone so many years being an ass publicly, it was nice to see him put in his place.

xlr8r said:

But so was Carlos Santana.

Uh, maybe a combination of a few things:

1. By 1995, very few Artists over 30 had major hits, as the N Synchs, and Brittknee Speers of the world had cookie cutter lifeless hits. Rappers were given signing bonuses provided the lyrics were about Guns and Weed or full of Drug and Violence references. (Santana had a huge hit with a song he didn't write, didn't sing on, didn't produce....oh yeah, Rob Thomas was under 30 at the time....big shock.) And it wasn't 1995, it was 1999.

2. So Far So Pleased was the most radio friendly thing on the project, and either there were licensing/permission issues with Gwen being on the song, or just more poor marketing by Prince.(Remember...Jughead, Life O The Party, and the Wedding Feast have been released, Moonbeam Levels, Witness, Wonderful Ass, and the original Old Friends 4 Sale have NOT!!!!)

3. Prince probably should have gone the U2 and Michael Jackson road of making fans wait so they would be very hungry for new music...he went the road of releasing tons of stuff. This was great for us die-hards. If you don't think this was a career killer, think of it like this: Sign "O" The Times is probably his best work, but is not even among his 10 best selling releases.(It is if you count the sales DOUBLE, like the RIAA does for it being a "double" release...but in sheer numbers, it was a very very poor seller.) The best of both worlds would have been for Prince to have a major release every 2-4 years, but have HUGE and I mean HUGE box sets every 10-15 years with TONS of discs. By Tons, I mean 30-50 disc sets...but that is Utopia, not Prince reality.

4.Watching Tony M, Damon D, and Kirk Johnson roam around on stage in those Star Trek Next Generation outfits probably scared away potential fans who saw any TV appearence from 1991-1993.

5. Are there any mistakes in my post? If there are mistakes, is it me being a moron, or am I hoping that I am lucky enough for Bart Van Halen to catch them and give me a "For Fuck's Sake.."

TheVoid said:

Carlos never left the industry. Prince lost his momentum for half a decade. Plus Prince was demed a weirdo since forever. It was a weirdo's "slight" return.

TheVoid said:

but Carlos' album was practically a compilation mixtape with the hottest artists that year with Carlos getting in here and there there with a guitar riff.

Prince had, what, 3 audible guest stars on his? only 2 of which had hit potential at that time.

TheVoid said:

I like the song too, but in 1999 it sounded like yet another retread/remix of The Most Beautiful Girl In The World to me. But without the pop spark.

i really liked the whole project and his look during this era

but i think it bombed because of the single choices and ppl werent ready for the ponytails

Am I the only one who thinks the blue suit and hair bows were cool?

TheVoid said:

^ I thought that was not too bright of Carson to use the example of bartender/drinks. Prince caught that - like, a bartender just pours drinks and takes no responsibility if someone gets sick, drunk, becomes dependent, etc. Prince was like, Oh man, you didn't just suggest that...but I'm not sure if Carson even realized it. Prince didn't lose, imo, he just didn't need to go there. He would have gotten all preachy, for sure, and he had an album to promote.

Why did Rave fail? Combination of factors, most of them have been mentioned. Regardless, I still think it is a very good record, had potential and didn't fulfill it. Sometimes it's nobody's fault. Prince made a strong album, the record company promoted it, and the Prince fans bought it and supported it. Did it outsell Chaos and Disorder? Yes, but no one asks why that album bombed. Expectations were probably too high.

1) The lead single was not strong enough to make a real impact on the radio. He would have needed a second "Cream" or "TMBGITW". "TGRES" was just a nice song trying to satisfy people's R'n'B taste of the late 90's. O.k. for someone who is seen as the next hot thing anyway, but not for making a comeback.

2) The collaborations could not be marketed as collaborations, simply because you couldn't hear the damn collaborators in the mix.

3) The whole Symbol thing was played out in 1999. It was seen as weird by the major public right from the start, but at least it was somehow fresh up until ca. 1995-1996. People were bored of the name change thing in 1999. Prince knew why he reclaimed his old name in 2000.

squirrelgrease said:

Not the only one, no.

ok, so everybody agrees that the lead single was not appropriate.


And, I agree. It simple wasn't the right single at the right time.
He needed something with real 'pop' to it. As bland and by-the-numbers
as "So Far, So Pleased" was, it still is his catchiest rock-rift
since "I could Never Take the Place of Ur Man". It should have been the single.


However, He released 'Te Amo Corezan', a dreadfully aweful choice for a lead
single for 3121 (in my opinion one of the best albums of his career--maybe not
best artistically, but best as far as pop savvy), and 3121 still managed
to grace the charts at the top during it's release.

As is the case with many Prince albums,the wrong singles were released.

"The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" is a snoozefest,and then he follows up with another slow song "Man O War"? What was Clive Davis thinking? Or did Prince have final say?

These songs should have been the singles,in this order...

"So Far,So Pleased"
"Baby Knows"
"Wherever U Go,Whatever U Do"

That's three strong singles right there."Silly Game" could have been a fourth single,aimed at R&B radio.

Rave bombed because there was no cohesive solid promotion
and there was also no follow-up.

The Greatest Romance wasn't the best choice as lead single IMO. However, any
chance it did have was wasted because there was no video! The video wasn't
completed until 2 months after the single had been released! Plus, Prince didn't
promote the song at all either. On every TV show I saw him on around that time,
he'd play 'Baby Knows' instead!

...And people wonder why it didn't do well?

Then to cap it all, that was that. No further singles were released and no
further promotion or appearances happened.

Another factor was the sequencing of the album itself. Though this was a lesser
factor as it would only affect people who had actually bought or heard the
album. The song order on Rave is messy and random. It lacks a cohesive flow,
particularly the first half. Plus I was never a fan of album version of the
title track. The stripped down delivery seems at odds with the lyrics. The Rave
In2 version was an improvement, but still lacked something IMO.

Personally, I think the material itself is (mostly) fucking awful, but that never stopped an album being a commercial success - so I'd put it down to the promotion, Prince's half-assed attempts at it, and the fact he rarely ever plays that game for the long haul.