errant said:

That's a valid point too!

Nikademus said:

Dewrede said:

Why does it matter to you....is this the first time you came across a thread you found speculative? 5 pages and over 100 replies should tell you alot of folks don't share your opinion...

errant said:

SoulAlive said:

This isn't right at all! How many artists have found success through YouTube?! Other than the Chris Brown anomaly, how many artists have had any measure of success from this apparently valuable "promotional tool" - go ahead, name some! 5 years its been around, millions of videos uploaded and NO-ONE has seen any value from it....unless you want to prove otherwise.

Also, getting your music played on television is one of the largest royalty revenue generators going! Ok, MTV managed to shaft a lot of US independents (not the majors) back in the day, but they still paid out HUGE amounts in royalties. This didn't work with the European labels, because they stood up to MTV and threatened to boycott the station with not providing them with new music - MTV relented and agreed to pay the appropriate royalties due.

Mindflux said:

Here's the thing. Maybe he wouldn't make much money off of youtube directly. Maybe it wouldn't get the majority of people who see the clips to actually purchase his material. But if 1 person out of 100 went and bought his back catalog because they saw a performance or promo video on youtube, then he's money ahead, instead of spending so much money on WebSheriff and lawyers and court costs to get it taken off. At some point there's got to be no benefit to spending the money on getting something taken offline that might actually help you make some money. You're not making any money at all if it's not exposed. In fact, you're spending a lot of money to actively keep yourself from making money.

errant said:

Looks like a strawman argument to me - wasn't this thread about youtube being able to save him from his debts?

And, how about that this isn't about making money for Prince - its about artistic INTEGRITY! There's the thing, my friend If it was about money, then the money spent on removing copyrighted material wouldn't make sense....but its not about the money. Its about something more important.

Mindflux said:

Exactly. All he wants is control over how his music is distributed. If he wants his music videos and performances on youtube, it should be his choice. Not the choice of some 16 year old kid or some Soccer Mom from Ohio.

If Prince chooses to embrace youtube like he did Napster, great. If not, it's not a big loss.

If a teenage kid is interested in discovering his music, they can buy a CD. Or they can go to one of the many other free sites and listen to his music or watch his videos.

Youtube isn't the only game in town.

Mindflux said:

artistic integrity? seriously, gtfo with that shit. you know as well as i do that Prince's litigious binges have nothing to do with artistic integrity and everything to do with money. money that he thinks he should be getting but never would in a million years.

and yes, the thread is about youtube saving him from his debts. i already outlined that, but since you've shown a tendency to need things repeated for you:

1) 1 out of 100 people gets into Prince because they saw a killer performance or song posted on youtube and purchases his music. that's money in his pocket.

2) the money he would have saved by not being a fascist cunt about youtube would have been enough to pay his debts. one of which may well soon be damages and attorney fees to one of the people he went after.

so there you go. it comes full circle for him. if he'd left it alone, he'd have a more of his own money left plus some from new fans. instead, he's paid to have it taken down and will most likely pay again for having it taken down.

errant said:

Nope - YOU think "Prince's litigious binges have nothing to do with artistic integrity" and that's it. Its your opinion, period.

But, whatever it is, its his right to do so.

And, even if your presumption is true and its all about the $, he already earns more than enough money from his product, he doesn't need a channel like YouTube, which isn't a proven source of income at all. Your ludicruos assumption that "1 in 100" would buy his back catalogue is utter bullshit and totally unprovable. And you then speculate that the costs of the takedowns would cover his debts! Combine all this with your baseless lauding of YouTube as some wonder promotional tool even thought there's no evidence to support that (you can't name anyone that's "made it" off the back of YouTube) and, well that's all a lot of guesswork and is so way off you just look a fool.

Why people care about how much money an artist is or should be earning and how many fans they have is irrational and completely beyond me. Do you care how much your bank manager earns and advise on his portfolio whilst checking out how many friends he has on Facebook
[Edited 4/29/10 16:42pm]

head wound.

errant said:

Yup - you should get it seen to

Mindflux said:

That's all I can figure when someone so easily throws all common sense out the window to rationalize Prince's stupidity. And not only that, act as if there's some kind of brilliant master plan to it when we've seen time and again just how haphazard his entire career is.
[Edited 4/29/10 16:45pm]

errant said:

How do you rationalise yours?

Yup - 30+ years in music, one of the most difficult careers in terms of longevity. How haphazard! How long have you been in your job?

Mindflux said:

In fact, what do you do for a living? I mean, you pretend to know everything about Prince, the music business, promotion, marketing, litigation.....what exactly do you do?

And I never said it was some brilliant masterplan - he's just allowed to do what the fuck he wants to do with HIS music, its that simple! Is that so difficult to understand. Nobody tells me what to do with my product and I wouldn't expect them to, or appreciate it....its none of anyone else's business!

Mindflux said:

aren't you the one who's been talking for weeks about how Prince can pay his bills but isn't because he's making so much money off of his investments and tax dodges that he can afford to incur the penalties?


and been soundly bested by both a lawyer and investment manager?

errant said:

Nope! Looks like you're putting other people's words in to my mouth. I've always maintained that lots of people here are speculating with one-dimensional thinking, whereas there are many angles these issues can be viewed from.

I , however, bested you on every single ridiculous point that you've been spouting for weeks however on the merits of YouTube.

And, now you're trying to ride on the merits of others and you're sidestepping the question about what you do.....I wonder why?

I would imagine that the reason Prince owes some taxes ($300K aint that much in the grand scheme of things) is because he is lousy at finances. He no doubt has a mint in his banks account(s) but just doesnt manage it well. He makes music. He lives music. He loves getting paid for music. But he probably has a back office of staff that run his day-to-day affairs. But like most businesses, the back office staff cant make certain payments and sign certain cheques without the boss' signature. Perhaps on the day that the signature was required he was holed up in his recording studio or locked up with the Lotusflow3r.com developers making stupid decisions, that he told everyone not to disturb him. Hence the cheque didnt get signed and now he owes the money... He probably didnt even know he owed money until he read about it on the org!

As for the Croke Park cock up, well, thats just a typical Prince thing. Get sued in Ireland, wave it off as unimportant, forget about it and then get told of the judgement. Think to himself "oops" and then go into the studio with a DO NOT DISTURB SIGN for a couple of months. Again, his staff cant get hold of him to sign the cheque.

It must be hell working for Prince...

laurarichardson said:[quote]

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO, I already answered your question in the post you didn't read.

And I did read your post; I just missed it the first time I went through all the replies. I just didn't find your post very well-thought-out.

laurarichardson said:

I've clearly stated I don't know what Prince's financial situation is, and I've given a few guesses on why he didn't pay his taxes.

But you are hung up on a tax dispute. Tax disputes are based on a dispute over the appraised value of the taxed property.

Every taxing authority has specific periods of time each tax year in which the taxpayer can dispute the assessed value of his property. The dispute is heard, a decision is made, and the adjusted tax is then charged.

If Prince properly contested the assessed value of Paisley Park, then the tax amount is the result of the outcome of the hearing. If Prince didn't like the outcome of that - and thus, didn't like the tax amount - too bad. He had his chance, he made his case, he lost. That's pretty much the end of the story.

If Prince waited until after the contesting period had ended to lodge his claim that Paisley Park was valued too high, again - too bad. That's on Prince, but he cannot undo the expiration of the contesting period. He owes the tax, and there's no avenue for appeal.

So taking your position to its logical conclusion, the only answers are that either (1) Prince lost his case on the property valuation but has decided not to pay anyway; or (2) Prince waited too long to contest the value but figures that if he doesn't pay, the taxing authority will cave and make an exception for him.

But if you have ANY experience with county or city government, you would know that they do NOT change the rules in cases like this. Why would they? They're owed a tax of around $400,000 on a property worth $millions. They can foreclose on the property and sell it for the taxes due. There's no way they wouldn't get at least $400,000 for Paisley Park.

Or, they could sell their tax lien to a private party, who then could foreclose on Paisley Park with the same result. Which they surely would do.

You need to understand this - a lien for unpaid taxes supercedes ANY OTHER LIEN. So even if Prince mortgaged Paisley Park to the hilt, or even for more than 100% of its value, whoever owns the tax lien gets paid FIRST. The only entity that can come before a tax lien holder is the IRS.

You may or may not be aware that Minnesota has been hit pretty hard by the recession. I'm sure the county could use the $400K Prince owes. They aren't going to mess around and dilly-dally while waiting on Prince.

You mentioned that you thought you read somewhere that once before, Prince contested property taxes. I didn't see you mention that he won. But that doesn't matter. Why?

Because when you are in the process of contesting taxes, there is no liability established. The tax liability is established only AFTER the dispute has been heard and ruled upon.

The fact that the county has published Prince's unpaid tax amount is 100% proof positive that whatever contest or dispute was entered by Prince, it's over and done with.

So to be perfectly clear - and please feel free to verify this with an attorney, if you wish - Prince has no legal right to dispute the amount of property taxes now claimed owed by the county.

If you can prove me wrong on that, please do. Otherwise, please agree that whatever the reason for Prince's non-payment is, it ISN'T because he has a valid dispute on the amount of taxes owed.

Mindflux said:

U SAID IT!!!!! MY THOUGHTS XACTLY!!

prince in debt nooooo!

errant said:

-----
It does not matter if it is money or integrity. It is not your music or a soccer mom's in OHIO. It is P's music so in the end he gets to make the decision
Why is this so hard to understand.

RodeoSchro said:

-----
Once again you don't know what the fuck is going on with P's taxes. You don't k now if he did dispute them and lost. You don't know if he is going to pay them or if some smart finacial wizard like yourself is suppose to be paying them for him and just did not do so. You don't know if P just said fuck it I am not paying them.

What you do know how to do is be arrogant and silly. I don't need you to explain how property taxes work as I own a few properties and I pay those taxes. Stop assuming that everyone on this board lives at home in their mom's basement.

In addtion, do you really think that P is going to let all of his property be foreclosed on!!! He is going out and doing concerts so I am sure he is going to have the funds to pay his taxes. Now you can move on with your life and stop worrying about someone eles money.

Mindflux said:

-----
Thank you for calling this dude on his B.S.

And by now Prince has probably paid his taxes. The newspapers though will not report this.

Hovering in his purple daze, wandering Paisley halls, humming his new inventions he completely forgot to keep his feet on the ground and sign the cheques to get them paid on time.

Or he realised that some negative publicity is better than no publicity at all (it worked for MJ) and he thought he'd give the org something to gossip about. It worked like a charm.

Mars23 said:

So many pages with answers so I'm sorry if this is just repeating.

No source of income? What about his back catalogue? Some of his older hits are still getting played on the radio and people buy his WB albums so he gets his share from those. That's plenty. That's a lot more than he lets us understand. And today when he releases a new album without a middle man, rest assured, he's getting paid.
If he wants to sell his album in "a wrecka stow", he makes the phone call personally to the likes of a newspaper, HMV or Target. As a business man, he seems to have endorsed the term "cost effective" by being very personally involved with everything. That's why he seems to have developed a certain reputation within the record store industry.

Also, from doing concerts he's making at least a six-figure sum per each gig. Again, without an actual middle man or an agent.

If he's in debt, I don't know. He probably is but not broke and I'm not saying you are even implying that. But the subject of not having any income is misguided.
[Edited 5/11/10 8:42am]

MrGravyLumps said:

Please read the whole sentence...

Mars did not say he has no source of income, he said there's no source of income that forces a person to pay their bills.

babynoz said:

Shoot, my bad. Thanks for correcting and apologies to Mars! Still, an opinion is an opinion, even if it appears that I can't read like an intelligent human being. Ha ha!

MrGravyLumps said:

No worries...all opinions welcome,