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Printableernestsewell said: NDRU said: by that logic, Elvis is an underground artist 
My point is simply that you can turn on a radio right now & still hear Prince. He is big in the mainstream, but his current music is just not popular. But I think we're splitting hairs a bit No, you're adding to what I said. I never said "underground", and I never said Prince wasn't once very mainstream friendly. You said things like "Kiss" and "1999" are still on the radio. Flashback and throwback channels do not make an artist mainstream. If that's the case, then every group in the world is mainstream all the time because everyone gets played at some point on a retro station. Top 40 stations aren't pulling out "Little Red Corvette" for any other reason than "Flashback Fridays" or something. He's NOT big in the mainstream. The mainstream is bitches like Rihanna, Leona Lewis, etc. Those people are popular because of what they ARE; Prince is popular because of what he WAS. My "underground" comment was a joke about Elvis being dead. 
I get your point, of course, I'm just taking Prince out of time & looking at the way he's perceived by the greatest hits owning community. Most people think of those songs when they think of Prince, and they are huge mainstream hits. The Beatles are a huge mainstream band. The Stones are a huge mainstream band. Michael Jackson is a mainstream artist. Every artist is not mainstream all the time because Badly Drawn Boy never was popular the same way Prince was. So he never will be, never was, isn't now. Prince is still "big by the mainstream," just not his current music. [Edited 3/22/10 16:01pm] My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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skywalker said: 1. Prince is "big by the Mainstream" when he wants to be: see 2004. 2. Prince isn't easily digestable by the mainstream masses. His sound, look, style, art are not easily put into a category. He plays hellarockin' guitar, but also has girlie voiced jazzy ballads, and hip hop tinged funk workouts...often on the same album. His diveristy and ability to straddle different worlds puts off a large section of the bland loving population. They want walmart and McDonalds. They want white men to play rock guitar, black man to rap, women to wear eyeliner and lace. 3. Prince doesn't promote himself as well as other "mainstream" artists do. He doesn't allow himself to go corporate as often as other acts of his stature. If he were more willing to "play the game" he'd be mainstream. All of this said, Prince has never really been mainstream. He always has had a foot in the undergroud/avant purple. Even in 1984. How is this being ignored? This makes more sense than any other post so far, it's bang on. This Post is produced, arranged, composed and performed by WetDream | |
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FrenchGuy said: Michael Jackson stan
That would have been a bloody awful country in which to live, especially if you were a male child under the age of 13.  | |
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Prince is only 5 foot 2. Of course he's not very big in the mainstream. I still play pokemon. I play warcraft. And I'm awesome. | |
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 THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
**....Someti | |
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Spinzilla said: Prince is only 5 foot 2. Of course he's not very big in the mainstream.
That wasnt nice  | |
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ernestsewell said: NDRU said: Prince is still big in the mainstream, listen to any number of stations and you will hear I Wanna Be Your Lover, 1999, Kiss.
Flashback + Retro doesn't = Main stream. Prince is an "oldies" artist at this point. I think we are confusing the terms "mainstream" and "flavor of the moment". Jimi Hendrix could be called oldies, but very mainstream. Same with Elvis and The Beatles. Is Prince is that (negatively termed) oldies classification? Not yet. I argue that with the demise of record tables and traditional radio format, Prince (with others of his ilk/age) are into some uncharted territory. I mean, even Madonna has left WB at this point. I digress. "Mainstream" and "currently hot" are not the same. Lastly, every music act is more popular for "who they were" eventually. Acts have about 1-5 years of being hot in the "pop" sense, then fans leave or stay. Example: You think Michael Jackson's Dangerous tour would have been as successful if not for what had come before? Sure, Dangerous was on the radio and number one, but people came for "Billie Jean". Furthermore, you think most folks went to see Prince's Parade tour because of that album or because of Purple Rain? [Edited 3/22/10 17:30pm] [Edited 3/22/10 17:30pm] [Edited 3/22/10 18:29pm] "New Power slide...." |
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I don't have the direct quote, but at one time Prince said he has hundreds of songs in his vault like 1999. I intrepret that to mean that he can write pop music if he wants to, he just chooses not to. His music now has more depth than before. It's more intricate with more layers of instruments than before.
Controversy is a great song...but not that complex. Dolphin...has more layers and texture. If Prince needs money, he'll go out on tour, as he makes alot more money that way, than from record sales. I just believe now that he's making today's music because it's intresting to him. We're just invited to ride along, if we choose to get on the boat. | |
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thedance said: 3. "lack of promotion", Prince is not putting his heart into promotion, it seems to bore him, he often loose interest in a project, jumping to the next project, 4. bad "connection to the fans", threats and lawsuits doesn't help, bad reputation, his sites aren't using the internet media good enough, the lack of downloads, I know the fams don't agree here. the man was on Leno for three strait days! Then on ellen! then on Travis Smiley! What more do you want to ask for! There were even countless commericals and the whole Target shebang... geeeeesh But i totally agree with you on #4 "Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time." | |
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Genesia said: JesusFreak said: I can think of one, matter in fact- the biggest one as of today. Lady Gaga. Let's see where she is in 30 years. I can see her still being as hot as she is right now 30 years from today 
For someone to keep reinventing like that & for someone who knows completely where they stand as an artist (who actually plays an instrument and writes her own songs), I don't see why some of ya'll can't get past your blatant biase "Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time." | |
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ernestsewell said: He's not THE best musician in the past 30 years, but he's up there.
In recent years, he's snubbed and talked shit about a lot of award committees. Why give a brat and a self-imposed hater anything? The rest of your stuff about looks, voice, etc is just drivel. Prince is an old artist who doesn't make music the mainstream is going to like or be interested in. I have people around me that are 25, and they barely, if at all, know about Purple Rain. He's not on their radar. His heyday is over. Letitgo. Otherwise, as Marrk said,  You have a point, but if Prince's not on the radar, How come he got the year #1 tour in 2004? Mainstream is relative, on this era there are different media outlets that really work, Billboard or traditional Award shows are outdated, they don't even matter anymore. "I have so much love for Prince. But why don't they look at me that way"- MJ | |
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Here's a simple answer to this question.
American POP Culture as well as other fellow music categories are NOT very complex. Basically, the music business is not as it was before. As always "SEX SELLS" and the world of music today is bullshit. There is NO talent. And if there is then its very rare and often hard to find. Prince has NEVER been mainstream and he never will be because the listeners that come upon Prince's music do not care enough and are too damn lethargic to attempt to figure out the meanings of his songs. NOW...not ALL songs & artist today are simple or not talented BUT what is played on the radio...lets face it...it all sounds the same!! Prince is not mainstream because it is PRINCE alone who chooses when and not to be. All the mainstream cares about is money. Prince dedicates himself to art. If the mainstream doesn't like or if its "too complex" for them...they don't even bother. This truly pisses me off about the mainstream as well as music today. Prince get's no damn respect or recognition. He was nominated for a Grammy this year and was won over by Bruce Springsteen. Truly a mother fucking shame. All I know is that I will FOREVER be dedicated 2 the amazing metaphysical PURPLE ONE!!! <3 OH...and WTF is a Lady Gaga? Sounds like a disease 2 me. Just saying. "Happy is the way 2 meet your burden"<3
**~~Prince Rogers Nelson Baby...~~<3333** | |
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"Marketing is the product and the product is the marketing."
If you advertise someone/thing on huge billboards, magazine covers, advert breaks and radio soundbites, people notice, and they will more than likely go and purchase, or at least look at what's the current 'in' thing. Many will buy it because everyone else is or they think they are missing out or will be considered 'cool' for doing so. People forget 'the latest fashion' very quickly and are always looking to see what the next 'cool' thing is. When people over here (UK) still seem to want to listen to 'Britcrap' and winners of 'talent' shows doing covers, we seem to prefer entertainment worthy of a Butlins redcoat rather than an esteemed musician and performer. This is what it's like in the dream factory... |
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ronnwinter said: ernestsewell said: He's not THE best musician in the past 30 years, but he's up there.In recent years, he's snubbed and talked shit about a lot of award committees. Why give a brat and a self-imposed hater anything?
The rest of your stuff about looks, voice, etc is just drivel. Prince is an old artist who doesn't make music the mainstream is going to like or be interested in. I have people around me that are 25, and they barely, if at all, know about Purple Rain. He's not on their radar. His heyday is over. Letitgo. Otherwise, as Marrk said, I dont know ernest... I usually agree with you on a lot of things. But I honestly cant think of anyone thats a better "overall" musician. Is he the best guitarist? No. The best pianist? No. bass Player? No... But looking at the BIG picture instead of the small ones individually..Id have to say YES. Ernest is a big contradiction, I mean anyone with some music knowledge knows that Prince is considered by many the best musician of the las 30 years, this might not be true, but at least is a fact on the pages of music criticism, weird how Ernest choose to mix his opinion making a statement about awards shows.The main award shows characteristics are snubbing and hate. Anyway, I know lots of 25 year olds that love Prince and are into Purple Rain, go figure. "I have so much love for Prince. But why don't they look at me that way"- MJ | |
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skywalker said: 1. Prince is "big by the Mainstream" when he wants to be: see 2004.
2. Prince isn't easily digestable by the mainstream masses. His sound, look, style, art are not easily put into a category. He plays hellarockin' guitar, but also has girlie voiced jazzy ballads, and hip hop tinged funk workouts...often on the same album. His diveristy and ability to straddle different worlds puts off a large section of the bland loving population. They want walmart and McDonalds. They want white men to play rock guitar, black man to rap, women to wear eyeliner and lace. 3. Prince doesn't promote himself as well as other "mainstream" artists do. He doesn't allow himself to go corporate as often as other acts of his stature. If he were more willing to "play the game" he'd be mainstream. All of this said, Prince has never really been mainstream. He always has had a foot in the undergroud/avant purple. Even in 1984.  |
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skywalker said: 1. Prince is "big by the Mainstream" when he wants to be: see 2004.
2. Prince isn't easily digestable by the mainstream masses. His sound, look, style, art are not easily put into a category. He plays hellarockin' guitar, but also has girlie voiced jazzy ballads, and hip hop tinged funk workouts...often on the same album. His diveristy and ability to straddle different worlds puts off a large section of the bland loving population. They want walmart and McDonalds. They want white men to play rock guitar, black man to rap, women to wear eyeliner and lace. 3. Prince doesn't promote himself as well as other "mainstream" artists do. He doesn't allow himself to go corporate as often as other acts of his stature. If he were more willing to "play the game" he'd be mainstream. All of this said, Prince has never really been mainstream. He always has had a foot in the undergroud/avant purple. Even in 1984. Good post. Change is hard for most folks (myself included), but Prince has remained relevant in music because he's talented and not afraid to be different, whether the majority approves or not. He did it his way back in the day and hasn't deviated a bit in that respect. Gotta love him!  | |
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vainandy said: Prince was a mainstream staple on R&B radio from 1979 (if not possibly 1978) on up until 1984. He crossed over and was on mainstream pop radio from 1982 to 1984. He pulled himself out of the mainstream when he changed his style after "Purple Rain". However, even after he changed his style, a lot of his stuff still got mainstream R&B airplay on up through the "Batman" era of 1989. A lot of people dropped him in 1985 but he still got the R&B radio airplay, his stuff just wasn't loved as much as it was in the early 1980s.
In the 1990s, he had mainstream airplay on both pop and R&B radio with the "Diamonds and Pearls" album. After that, he only got a little airplay every now and then with a new slow jam on R&B radio on up to this day. Why? Because the 1990s changed everything. Unless you're doing shit hop or singing a bunch of dull adult contemporary type R&B, you aren't gonna get no airplay anymore. Also, with the shit hop era of the 1990s and the present, people became much more homophobic when it came to the appearance of who the entertainers were that they liked. If someone didn't look absolutely normal, ordinary, and dull, mainstream didn't like them anymore. Shit hop ruined a lot of stuff not just musically, but imagewise also. . . . [Edited 3/22/10 13:31pm] hmm..although alot of hip hop today is shit, there have been some great hip hop music since the 90's..i dont think its fair to classify a whole genre as being crap - not all rappers are 50 cent, there are those who have something to say just for example,outkast had an image tht was not the macho, gangsta norm and they were very successful...in fact, they were influenced heavily by prince.. anyway, good music is good music and everything has its time is the water warm enough? | |
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...you see how mess gets started tho?????
this will be the 47th post on a thread based on someone else's opinion. wtf is mainstream ?? who is french guy??? has he bathed??? is he angry at prince??? we dont know his tone. why is this bothering me??!!! THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
**....Someti | |
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JesusFreak said: the man was on Leno for three strait days! Then on ellen! then on Travis Smiley! What more do you want to ask for! There were even countless commericals and the whole Target shebang... geeeeesh But i totally agree with you on #4 But there are other countries than the US.. or so I've heard. "Lotusflow3r" in Europe is a "secret" Prince album to everyone outside the fan communities. Sort of like a "cult item". [Edited 3/23/10 1:36am] |
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He doesn't wnt to B a slave 2 the system..... &  | |
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after actually reading the thread, i like the comments made by the dance and skywalker.
what made me angry was the notion of "mainstream" or more or less "trainscheme" and thats a thread in and of itself. THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
**....Someti | |
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myfavorite said: ...you see how mess gets started tho?????
this will be the 47th post on a thread based on someone else's opinion. wtf is mainstream ?? who is french guy??? has he bathed??? is he angry at prince??? we dont know his tone. why is this bothering me??!!! Attention seeking, honey? U really felt the need to bitch uh?
I gave my opinion. And this is a forum : Its about exchanging opinions. Either U give yours on the thread or U leave us 'angry' (or whatever U qualify people like 'me') Prince fans alone. And yeah, I got bathed (yeah, french guyz are not dirty). U need to wash your bitterness away too. Peace
Thanx Everybody is somebody, but nobody wants to be themselves. | |
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a la Michael Jackson, the public waits until someone is dead before they heap just laurels upon them . . . Every day should b a COSMIC DAY! | |
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oh how i love and enjoy the condecension of a strong confident patronizing man, who calls me honey.
THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
**....Someti | |
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prince is retarded. but tn again, so re peple i'vsen interview him.... THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
**....Someti | |
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Simple answer. Prince is NOT big via the mainstream because u have 2 pay a lot of MONEY via radio, marketing, etc.....and Prince is out of that game. | |
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skywalker said: ernestsewell said: Flashback + Retro doesn't = Main stream. Prince is an "oldies" artist at this point. I think we are confusing the terms "mainstream" and "flavor of the moment". Jimi Hendrix could be called oldies, but very mainstream. Same with Elvis and The Beatles. Is Prince is that (negatively termed) oldies classification? Not yet. I argue that with the demise of record tables and traditional radio format, Prince (with others of his ilk/age) are into some uncharted territory. I mean, even Madonna has left WB at this point. I digress. "Mainstream" and "currently hot" are not the same. Lastly, every music act is more popular for "who they were" eventually. Acts have about 1-5 years of being hot in the "pop" sense, then fans leave or stay. Example: You think Michael Jackson's Dangerous tour would have been as successful if not for what had come before? Sure, Dangerous was on the radio and number one, but people came for "Billie Jean". Furthermore, you think most folks went to see Prince's Parade tour because of that album or because of Purple Rain? [Edited 3/22/10 17:30pm] [Edited 3/22/10 17:30pm] [Edited 3/22/10 18:29pm] There's a difference in being successful and being mainstream. No matter how successful Prince may have been hese days with his recent albums or tours, he is still considered an oldies act rather than a current mainstream one. Prince's success these days has a lot to do with having a loyal fanbase that buys every single album he puts out. Sure, other artists have loyal fanbases like that but nowhere near as large as Prince's loyal fanbase. That accounts for his album sales these days and that same fanbase, plus a lot of ex-fans account for a lot of his tour sales also because he has a ton of folks that haven't bought a Prince album in years but flock to his concert to hear his old hits. A lot of those fans could care less about his new songs. That's how it is with an oldies act and Prince is definately one. A lot of groups have people that go to their concerts strictly to hear their old songs. That's what an oldies act is and Prince is no exception. For instance, Ronald Isley, from The Isley Brothers, would be considered more mainstream these days than Prince would be. A whole hell of a lot more kids loved his "Mr. Big" bullshit much more than they liked anything Prince has ever recorded in his entire career. Ronald was very mainstream at the time. However, when I went to The Isley Brothers concert, the majority of people there were my age and older who absolutely hate and dispise that "Mr. Big" sellout bullshit. I saw very few of those kids there. When he started singing his current stuff, I went to the restroom and when I came back, everyone was at the bar getting a drink until the new song was over. That's how it is with all oldies acts and I saw the same thing happening at the Prince concert I went to in 2004. Ronald Isley had mainstream success with his sellout current stuff (popularwise and radiowise) much moreso than Prince has because the radio and majority of the younger generation loved Ronald and couldn't stand Prince. But it was the loyal fanbase that made the concerts successful (although I would consider the Isley Brothers concert sales a flot compared to Prince because of the much larger amount of the loyal fanbase that Prince has). Prince strictly has his loyal hardcore fans to keep him comfortable but his audience is the same as Cameo, The Barkays, Con Funk Shun, or any other act that is considered an "oldies act" these days. Their concerts are attended strictly by their hardcore fans and a few others and so is Prince's except Prince just has a lot more hardcore and more diverse fans than those groups because he was much more successful than they were back in the day. But he's still considered an oldies act but just on a much larger scale. Actually, Prince is more of what's considered a "legends act" which is an oldies act with a huge following much moreso than the average oldies act. The average little brat that loves Beyonce or 50 Cent wouldn't go crazy over Prince but a lot of them would go crazy over Ronald Isley because he sounds more like the stuff they like which is sellout bullshit. I see no insult in someone being considered an oldies act. Hell, these days I consider it a compliment because just look what the mainstream is these days. . . . [Edited 3/23/10 14:30pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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realmusik said: vainandy said: Prince was a mainstream staple on R&B radio from 1979 (if not possibly 1978) on up until 1984. He crossed over and was on mainstream pop radio from 1982 to 1984. He pulled himself out of the mainstream when he changed his style after "Purple Rain". However, even after he changed his style, a lot of his stuff still got mainstream R&B airplay on up through the "Batman" era of 1989. A lot of people dropped him in 1985 but he still got the R&B radio airplay, his stuff just wasn't loved as much as it was in the early 1980s.
In the 1990s, he had mainstream airplay on both pop and R&B radio with the "Diamonds and Pearls" album. After that, he only got a little airplay every now and then with a new slow jam on R&B radio on up to this day. Why? Because the 1990s changed everything. Unless you're doing shit hop or singing a bunch of dull adult contemporary type R&B, you aren't gonna get no airplay anymore. Also, with the shit hop era of the 1990s and the present, people became much more homophobic when it came to the appearance of who the entertainers were that they liked. If someone didn't look absolutely normal, ordinary, and dull, mainstream didn't like them anymore. Shit hop ruined a lot of stuff not just musically, but imagewise also. . . . [Edited 3/22/10 13:31pm] hmm..although alot of hip hop today is shit, there have been some great hip hop music since the 90's..i dont think its fair to classify a whole genre as being crap - not all rappers are 50 cent, there are those who have something to say just for example,outkast had an image tht was not the macho, gangsta norm and they were very successful...in fact, they were influenced heavily by prince.. anyway, good music is good music and everything has its time Did I say hip hop? No, I said shit hop. If it's good, it's hip hop. If it's bullshit, it's shit hop. That's the reason I use the word because there were some good rap acts (usually underground and being played in dance clubs...usually gay ones because most straight ones played shit hop ). But as far as a rapper being good because he has something to say, hell, he can say all the stuff he wants but if the music behind what's he's saying sounds like hell and has no ass shaking appeal whatsoever, then it's shit hop. Rap when if first came on the radio in the late 1970s/early 1980s was mostly dance records so as far as I'm concerned, a rap record that isn't a dance record is shit hop. 
. . . [Edited 3/23/10 14:43pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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ernestsewell said: He's not THE best musician in the past 30 years, but he's up there.
In recent years, he's snubbed and talked shit about a lot of award committees. Why give a brat and a self-imposed hater anything? The rest of your stuff about looks, voice, etc is just drivel. Prince is an old artist who doesn't make music the mainstream is going to like or be interested in. I have people around me that are 25, and they barely, if at all, know about Purple Rain. He's not on their radar. His heyday is over. Letitgo. Otherwise, as Marrk said, That's basically the truth, Ruth... Which makes his fear of the primary means by which we as fans could potentially spread the word a little --youtube, etc-- almost tragically sad. When I was in HS, a lot of kids started getting into Clapton and the like, who were pretty much past their prime but still making decent music, and they became fans. In this day and age, there's no reason some might do so for Prince, if they had the chance. Dude's still got the performance skills and rep. ********************************************
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WetDream said: skywalker said: 1. Prince is "big by the Mainstream" when he wants to be: see 2004.
2. Prince isn't easily digestable by the mainstream masses. His sound, look, style, art are not easily put into a category. He plays hellarockin' guitar, but also has girlie voiced jazzy ballads, and hip hop tinged funk workouts...often on the same album. His diveristy and ability to straddle different worlds puts off a large section of the bland loving population. They want walmart and McDonalds. They want white men to play rock guitar, black man to rap, women to wear eyeliner and lace. 3. Prince doesn't promote himself as well as other "mainstream" artists do. He doesn't allow himself to go corporate as often as other acts of his stature. If he were more willing to "play the game" he'd be mainstream. All of this said, Prince has never really been mainstream. He always has had a foot in the undergroud/avant purple. Even in 1984. How is this being ignored? This makes more sense than any other post so far, it's bang on. Co-sign... if you add Ernest Sewell's to it  ********************************************
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