I'LL REPEAT: Does Prince still want his master recordings back?

Or has Prince reach a point in his life spiritually and/or professionally that it's one more battle with the The WB Music Group AND "The Powers That Be" that is no longer worth fighting?

He's probably waiting it out. In 35 years from the original release, ownership reverts back to him. He'll own For You in 2013, then Prince in 2014, Dirty Mind in 2015, etc. Then he'll unceremoniously burn every single one of them.

ernestsewell said:

If that's a joke..., or otherwise....

That would be pretty damn stupid. Dirty Mind, The Black Album, & Come, I can understand due to Prince's spiritual status as a JW. But 1999 & Purple Rain?!?

Again, pretty stupid idea. My dead honest opinion of course.

Can someone explain to me,what exactly are "master recordings" and why its such a good thing that Prince gets them back? do the fans benefit too?

TonyVanDam said:

To burn any of his "children" is a dumb ass idea. I don't care if it is Dirty Mind or Lovesexy.

I think in general, burning or not, he's just going to piss on his legacy, and not take care of it. He's proving that already, and it's sad and pathetic.

ernestsewell said:

from what I'm reading, that applies if the grant of copyright is after January 1, 1978. so did he grant copyright when he turned over his first album in 1978 or did he grant copyright when he signed in 1977?

he paid for the tapes when the costs were recouped

dance4me3121 said:

Basically, it's the original "tape" recording. Many times, the record company finances the recording and that's how they end up owning the masters.

citrus said:

Wrong.

ernestsewell said:

that's precisely what WB would say.

"even though you recouped all the recording costs which include the physical master tapes, you don't really own them"

DesireeNevermind said:

but when the artist recoups those costs, the artist then technically owns the tapes.

but try telling that to a record company lol

citrus said:

Technically and legally Prince 'owns' the master recordings.

It's rights to use of those recordings which are tied up legally with Warners and, as described above, revert to him progressively from 2013 onwards.

langebleu said:

"i want my tapes i paid for them"

"sure here you go, but you can't do what you want with them"

"why not?"

"because we own the 'rights' to what's on the tapes"

"so i signed a contract agreeing that you could STEAL via some slippery little 'rights' scheme you think makes sense, but doesnt"

"exactly. now bend over so we can screw you some more. hail satan!"

technically, contracts designed to thwart an artist right to use the tapes they own, including the content they created, are diabolically unjust, stupid and complete B.S.

you need some fancy music lawyer to rewrite the contract rule-books to fix that insipid situation.

citrus said:

Sad but true.

zaza said:

absolutely.

the only real 'right' a recording company has, is a slice of sales.

they are entitled to utterly none of the other numerous ways they skim money and 'rights'.

it's a form of theft by a quasi 'emotional blackmail' > "if you don't do it our way you don't get no record deal"

it's entirely abhorrent and they should all be sued for fraud or some other such breach of fair business.

they want money for things they have nothing to do with

what's worse is they think this mockery is natural.

they rely solely on the naivety and vanity of young artists who care more for being rich and famous, than integrity.

these young kids think if they 'sell their soul' early on in the deal, they can get it back later.

too late kiddies too late.

citrus said:

You hit the nail on the head right there. The music business is the way it is, is so 'diabolical', because naive and vain artists care more for being rich and famous than about their rights and integrity. I have advised so many artists not to sign a contract, but they still did. Then once they got screwed, they came back crying and complaining why they are treated so bad.

The problem is not with the record companies wanting to own the rights. If you paid an artist 1 million dollars upfront to produce a record, you would want to own those rights too. Look at Prince himself; all artists he works with, work for hire and need to convey all their rights to NPG records.

The real problem then is with the artists taking that money and signing anything, and with the artists (like Prince) continuing those exact same business practices, once they are the record company themselves. That diabolical practice and the senseless practice of trying to close up the internet, is what keeps the music business is such bad shape.


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[Edited 3/9/10 4:36am]

TonyVanDam said:

Of course he wants them back.

Tremolina said:

can't say i would but this is where the lines get blurred in terms of what a recording company is 'entitled' to.

that mil is an investment, a risk they take. they're entitled to make their money back via sales, after all that's the business they're in, selling records.

any other investor in a product cuts the same deal, they front the money and do the work to get that money back plus profit.

executives with scruples will take that money back via the correct and appropriate channel - sales, not the numerous other ways.

and no, fronting a mil doesnt entitle them to the 'rights' to anything other than working their asses off to get you airplay, plus the promotion it takes to sell your record

we agree about young naive artists, unfortunately they perpetuate the fraudulent spin typed up in contracts, making it difficult for genuine artists to cut a fair deal because they are the minority and are often told "go to an indie label"

maybe that's the way it is supposed to be, commercial industry via majors becoming increasing bereft of any 'real' music because they only care about the pretty faces tits and ass dick bling and ca-ching, while the genuine artists go indie or release their music on the internet and keep their souls intact.

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[Edited 3/9/10 4:44am]

Tremolina said:

I don't see how "the artists (like Prince)" handling his creations however he chooses to handle them is a "real problem"? A real problem for who? Devils? Prince created it. It's his art. Prince has God-given talents. God created the Heavens and the Earth and it's just like a devil to feel entitled when the devil did NOT create it. It's not theirs to take. I bet the Native Americans and many others would agree with me. It's evil. Bad business. These devils need to accept that some of us know this and aren't willing to bend over.

given his state of mind I think P is the last person who should have ownership of his masters!. Dread to think of what he'd do to them if he got hold of them.

He sold the rights to those tapes to WB for a shit-load of money.

If you create a piece of art and sell it to someone, they own it. If you buy an original painting to hang on a wall in your home, the artist who painted it doesn't get to come to your house and tell you he owns it and wants it back. He can try. He can buy it back from you. IF you are willing to sell it. If not, he's shit out of luck.

Prince was paid very, very well for ownership of those master tapes by WB. If he wanted to own them, he could have taken less money. But he wants it both ways. Had it been that big of an issue for him, he would have negotiated it when he went into contract negotiations in the early 90's, the result of which was him receiving one of the biggest record deals in history. They even made him a VP of the parent company. He only started pissing and moaning about it after he threw away all the money on pointless protege albums, night clubs, and dozens of videos for songs that weren't going to be released.

We know all about Prince's wishy-washy, willy-nilly attitude toward contracts and litigation (and if you don't, read any of the recent news threads about his court cases), but that's now how it works with grown ups in the real world. You sign a contract, do work for hire, they own it and you get paid astronomical sums, and that's it.

citrus said:

Not going to happen, why would they want to cost their employer money?

errant said:

Correct. Don't sign if you don't agree, and read the damn smallprint.

Some of us know "The Powers That Be" are wishy-washy. Prince is intelligent. He studies the Bible. I'm sure he has read 2 Chronicles 20:1-30.

errant said:

The painting analogy is dead on.

errant said:

Only, I think it would be more appropiate to say, that Prince made the original "painting", the master, and WB made the millions and millions of copies as posters.

Anyway .. I agree with the sentiment. Prince seemed to piss his own pants to keep them royal jewels warm, a quick fix, and now he complaints about the smell.

ernestsewell said:

Don't count on it. Most likely his contract renewals extended that term.

http://www.alankorn.com/a...dings.html

dance4me3121 said:

If you care so much, how 'bout doing a bit of effort: use Google.

DesireeNevermind said:

WRONG.

It's the RIGHTS. WB only has the mixdown. I think Prince already has the master tapes of just about everything he ever recorded in his vault. He just doesn't have the RIGHTS to do anything with them.

citrus said:

Oh boohoo, grown-up didn't bother to read the contract he signed.