I have been listening to old and new Prince music and I don't see where all the hatred is coming from... Many artists have not delivered their best every time... But considering the amount of music that Prince has turned out over 32 years, I think it is amazing that he continues to deliver good music--Lotusflower had some good songs! But, putting new music into context; does anyone really listen to songs like they used to? I thought this comment from Brofie is worth repeating because it really has to do with what we as music lovers and consumers in the past and present decide how we rate music:

"In this world of throw away music and instant gratification, we have lost the ability to consider and ponder all art to the fullest potential. This is one reason there are so few worthy complete albums today. There was a time when people had to sit down with an actual piece of vinyl and a record player and listen to a complete album; not just a collection of random music files without some artistic or conceptual framework. People read the liner notes and studied the cover art. They sat around the card table or at the backyard cookout and discussed it. There was a tangible dimension to the music. Music wasnt gulped down in large digital chunks. It was savored, revisited, studied, copied, admired - it was a lasting component of our lives that actually scored (and, there by, immortalized) the most important and vivid memories in our lives.

"Today, it doesnt even have to be real art - or real music. No one cares because there is something else coming right behind what you just heard and it is disposable too. I suppose that makes true artists like Prince a dying breed. But then that has been the case for the last 20 years. That Prince is even still around and can get on the charts or get a Grammy nomination at all is more than astounding to me.

"I guess I say all that to say give new music from a genius some further consideration - at least listen to it more than twice - before making a judgement. Sometimes there is still some of that thing that made people truly listen to music back in the day." --Brofie

What do you think?

poetcorner61 said:

Honestly, the entire argument you make is from a Fam point of view. It's not the way people listen to music that is the problem. To me, that is one of the weakest excuses I've ever heard. It's the MUSIC that is the problem. Prince has gone soft and sloppy. Usually he doesn't focus on the track enough to make a genuine song and on the rare occasions when he does we get some unrelateable Black Panther-Jehovah's Witness-Larry Graham Thinks I'm Cool -Name Dropping- Overconfidence Masking Desperation-Garbage.

Brofie said:

I really think I'm quite clear. And my post(s) agree with your views, only I'm trying to expand it a bit more. You write to give the musical genuis more than just one listen, and I agree, but also think that the new generation of listeners (the mp3 kids) won't ever do that, because music today is a "throw away" object to them.

I'll better shut up then. I thought I was enormously clear, even to a fault.

Of course I listen to Prince. I am always interested in what he has to say. I do not think that everything he writes is genius and I never have.

No matter what, there will be people who will not accept anything less than 100% adoration for Prince's music. Those who live to tear down those who do not think like them are no better than the people they label "haters".

Vendetta1 said:

Thank you!

I am glad when I was in my early music listening years, my sister put Prince's "Controversy" in my hand. I can't think of a better way to learn music and music appreciation than having followed the mercurial career of Prince for the last 30 years or so.

And I count myself among the fortunate that I latched onto an artist that is STILL creating music, whether a recent track strikes my fancy or not. In my book he has earned my ear and appreciation. I may not ENJOY this or that particular song, but I do appreciate it all.

What I have grown weary of is the inability of people to have discussions (online) about his music without being pigeonholed into this or that corner as though it is not possible to be critical but still appreciate.

Vendetta1 said:

Thank you!

I am glad when I was in my early music listening years, my sister put Prince's "Controversy" in my hand. I can't think of a better way to learn music and music appreciation than having followed the mercurial career of Prince for the last 30 years or so.

And I count myself among the fortunate that I latched onto an artist that is STILL creating music, whether a recent track strikes my fancy or not. In my book he has earned my ear and appreciation. I may not ENJOY this or that particular song, but I do appreciate it all.

What I have grown weary of is the inability of people to have discussions (online) about his music without being pigeonholed into this or that corner as though it is not possible to be critical but still appreciate.

I do. I'm always still excited whenever he releases something and am interested to see what he offers. Any album is worth purchasing IMO if I like even one song.

Admittedly,for the most part, I don't like his more recent output anywhere near as much as his early and mid-career offerings, but I'm always hopeful. The latest song that was recently posted on prince.org was one of his worst songs ever in my opinon. Seriously laughable, IMO. But, it doesn't make me want to stop listening to Prince.

But, I'm a huge music fan,and a lot of my "wow!!" moments these days are coming from artists other than Prince.

I have been listening to old and new Prince music and I don't see where all the hatred is coming from... Many artists have not delivered their best every time... But considering the amount of music that Prince has turned out over 32 years, I think it is amazing that he continues to deliver good music--Lotusflower had some good songs! But, putting new music into context; does anyone really listen to songs like they used to? I thought this comment from Brofie is worth repeating because it really has to do with what we as music lovers and consumers in the past and present decide how we rate music:

"In this world of throw away music and instant gratification, we have lost the ability to consider and ponder all art to the fullest potential. This is one reason there are so few worthy complete albums today. There was a time when people had to sit down with an actual piece of vinyl and a record player and listen to a complete album; not just a collection of random music files without some artistic or conceptual framework. People read the liner notes and studied the cover art. They sat around the card table or at the backyard cookout and discussed it. There was a tangible dimension to the music. Music wasnt gulped down in large digital chunks. It was savored, revisited, studied, copied, admired - it was a lasting component of our lives that actually scored (and, there by, immortalized) the most important and vivid memories in our lives.

"Today, it doesnt even have to be real art - or real music. No one cares because there is something else coming right behind what you just heard and it is disposable too. I suppose that makes true artists like Prince a dying breed. But then that has been the case for the last 20 years. That Prince is even still around and can get on the charts or get a Grammy nomination at all is more than astounding to me.

"I guess I say all that to say give new music from a genius some further consideration - at least listen to it more than twice - before making a judgement. Sometimes there is still some of that thing that made people truly listen to music back in the day." --Brofie

What do you think?

NuPwrSoul said:

word!

Since when does one need to be a New Power Butt Puppet to be considered a true fan? It boggles the imagination.

Sure, I do. I don't base my opinions and choices of artists I like on someone else's opinion. I make my own choices and have never been a "follower" of those who think they can dictate to others what song of Prince is acceptable. You will always have people that will give constructive criticism, with suggestions of improvement-absolutely nothing wrong with that. Then you will have those that give, harsh, over-the-top criticism of an artists' work, which does not mean their opinion is the "final" say or puts the "seal" on whether that track/cd/album is good or not for everyone else.

Nor should anyone expect every fan to agree with their opinion on a single release/cd of an artist. If you like it, then that's okay, if you don't, then that's fine as well. We all have individual tastes in music so we shouldn't be expected to like the same things about it.

I think it becomes a problem on this forum, when some fans who don't like a particular track, take their criticism way over-the-top, to the point where it includes personal insults and degradation of the artist's character, who they don't even know in the first place. With that being said, their reasons for not liking the song, eventually takes a completely different turn and is often questionable.

2elijah said:

Great post C. The only thing I will add is that some of those who support Prince also take it way over the top to the point of insulting those who don't agree with them. Both sides make this forum pretty intolerable.

2elijah said:

Great post C. The only thing I will add is that some of those who support Prince also take it way over the top to the point of insulting those who don't agree with them. Both sides make this forum pretty intolerable.

Sure, I do. I don't base my opinions and choices of artists I like on someone else's opinion. I make my own choices and have never been a "follower" of those who think they can dictate to others what song of Prince is acceptable. You will always have people that will give constructive criticism, with suggestions of improvement-absolutely nothing wrong with that. Then you will have those that give, harsh, over-the-top criticism of an artists' work, which does not mean their opinion is the "final" say or puts the "seal" on whether that track/cd/album is good or not for everyone else.

Nor should anyone expect every fan to agree with their opinion on a single release/cd of an artist. If you like it, then that's okay, if you don't, then that's fine as well. We all have individual tastes in music so we shouldn't be expected to like the same things about it.

I think it becomes a problem on this forum, when some fans who don't like a particular track, take their criticism way over-the-top, to the point where it includes personal insults and degradation of the artist's character, who they don't even know in the first place. With that being said, their reasons for not liking the song, eventually takes a completely different turn and is often questionable.

reading people completely dismissing a song and then saying that "they could only get through 30 seconds of it" tells me where they are coming from. They could be right, they could be wrong, but their opinions are not informed.

I had a music teacher who would get angry if we said we didn't like a song while we were first learning it. She said "you cannot criticize a song until you know it." She was a little extreme, but those words stuck with me.

There are no rules for listening to or liking a song, but I can't take the opinion of someone who doesn't take any time to listen to a song closely a couple times with any objectivity seriously.

NDRU said:

I do not need to listen to a song more than once to know I do not like it though.

Vendetta1 said:

This is where I make the distinction between enjoyment and appreciation. Enjoyment is instinctual... usually I can tell with the first listen if I'm going to enjoy a song. Appreciation takes longer... more listens, good sound system, and really paying attention to what is being attempted musically. There are some Prince songs (the best) I enjoy (immediately) and continue to appreciate for their craftsmanship, etc. There are others I just enjoy even though I know musically they're the equivalent of fastfood--easy thrills, cliche but still jamming, etc. And then there are others I just appreciate for what it is. "Cause and Effect" falls in that category for me. Now "Purple and Gold"--I neither enjoyed nor appreciated that LOL. But that is rare for me and Prince music.

Vendetta1 said:

This is where I make the distinction between enjoyment and appreciation. Enjoyment is instinctual... usually I can tell with the first listen if I'm going to enjoy a song. Appreciation takes longer... more listens, good sound system, and really paying attention to what is being attempted musically. There are some Prince songs (the best) I enjoy (immediately) and continue to appreciate for their craftsmanship, etc. There are others I just enjoy even though I know musically they're the equivalent of fastfood--easy thrills, cliche but still jamming, etc. And then there are others I just appreciate for what it is. "Cause and Effect" falls in that category for me. Now "Purple and Gold"--I neither enjoyed nor appreciated that LOL. But that is rare for me and Prince music.

NDRU said:

I do not need to listen to a song more than once to know I do not like it though.

Vendetta1 said:

This is where I make the distinction between enjoyment and appreciation. Enjoyment is instinctual... usually I can tell with the first listen if I'm going to enjoy a song. Appreciation takes longer... more listens, good sound system, and really paying attention to what is being attempted musically. There are some Prince songs (the best) I enjoy (immediately) and continue to appreciate for their craftsmanship, etc. There are others I just enjoy even though I know musically they're the equivalent of fastfood--easy thrills, cliche but still jamming, etc. And then there are others I just appreciate for what it is. "Cause and Effect" falls in that category for me. Now "Purple and Gold"--I neither enjoyed nor appreciated that LOL. But that is rare for me and Prince music.

Vendetta1 said:

true, and even without listening to a song we can say we don't like it because how can you like something you don't know?

I believe you can form an opinion after a single listen, but it doesn't mean it is a fully informed opinion.

There are no rules, so if you're happy with that stance it's fine with me, but I know for myself that some of my favorite songs did absolutely nothing for me on first listen.

Have you never discovered something that you didn't notice the first time around?

NDRU said:

yes, I do that even now. i was listening to Billy Jack Bitch the other day and it finally occurred to me that Prince was suggesting CJ needs to get laid.

And I've heard that song at least a hundred times.

I dunno, Andrew. Sometimes when I read lyrics, I kinda close off my mind to it.

NuPwrSoul said Thank you!

I am glad when I was in my early music listening years, my sister put Prince's "Controversy" in my hand. I can't think of a better way to learn music and music appreciation than having followed the mercurial career of Prince for the last 30 years or so.

And I count myself among the fortunate that I latched onto an artist that is STILL creating music, whether a recent track strikes my fancy or not. In my book he has earned my ear and appreciation. I may not ENJOY this or that particular song, but I do appreciate it all.

What I have grown weary of is the inability of people to have discussions (online) about his music without being pigeonholed into this or that corner as though it is not possible to be critical but still appreciate.
This is true with many different aspects of society today.

No one wants to just let other people "be".

It's impossible to love or hate everything that one does. If you do then YOU have the problem and not the person that you are focusing on.
[Edited 3/3/10 14:22pm]
[Edited 3/3/10 14:23pm]