This is a ridiculous thread*, I know. It’s meant for a discussion about the creative process of creating music, and not just some cheap cynical stab at the person Prince (so if that’s all you get out of this post, I’m sorry, you got it wrong).

Anyway, taking a clue from the Dogma 95 film rules I was wondering, if you think Prince could use or benefit from some rules and boundaries when he writes songs and creates albums. The Dogma 95 was meant to peel off all the extra stuff, the special effects and the nonsense that didn’t work for the story. In short, the team of directors (or brotherhood, as they oh-so mythologically called themselves) agreed to obey ten rules, that forced them to re-think how they made film and forced them to think outside the box they were used to. To kill their darlings and break the chains that enslaved them to themselves (and I believe Prince said he was a slave to himself).

Those rules could be to shoot on locations, to not use props or costumes or fancy light, but to rely on the skill of the actors, the cinematographer and the story itself. The idea was, that if the story wasn’t any good, no effects or make-up or fancy music could elevate it. It was what it was. Heck they even had a rule that was meant to erase the director’s ego, by not allowing him to be credited, as in “no vanity job please”.
You can read the rules here, and catch up on some of the works, if you’re interested.

So my question is, what rules could Prince set himself and benefit musically (I’m not looking to “fix” the man or his business) from obeying? There are a ton of people who know Prince’s music in depth and I’m sure they could dream up a set of obstacles for Prince that would make his music blossom?

I’d make some rules like:

1) No one man job. Accept the musical authority of others (like, hire a producer)
2) No old timers, and if old timers are to be involved, they too must obey these rules.
3) The song must work on a simple guitar and a single voice.
4) No gimmicks, no concept.
5) … and so on

Yeah, I know, it’s probably a rather moot point all of it, but as Prince said (or rather: sung) he is his only competition; so I think he could benefit enormously from playing a sort of intellectual mind game with himself, trying to bend the rules and find new ways to express himself, without relying on “the old ways”.

Do you agree? Could he benefit from this? Many seem to believe that Prince's worst work has been created while he was "free". Could less freedom mean bettr music?




* Enerst wanted something new, here
[Edited 2/24/10 1:21am]
[Edited 2/24/10 1:43am]

i believe there's freedom in restrictions especially in a recording studio.

an abundance of options is not always a good thing ie: recording techniques, musicians, microphones, equipment etc..

when you have too much to choose from there's no pressure to squeeze out the juice.

when you eliminate most of your options ur forced into the corner where the key to real creativity lies.

i perceive it as a 'spiritual' approach to recording where less is so much more and simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

1. We love your introspective songwriting...Do more.

2. As far as songwriting, don't ignore fresh new sounds, but squash any attempts at lame teen lyrics for the illiterate generation.

3. Less guitar- more interesting composition. And I miss the art baroque piano ballads.

4. Ignore the financial temptation for a Revolution reunion. The revisionist history relative to this "band" and the importance to your songwriting is overrated.

5. Keep pushing the envelope as an independent artist and fully embrace independent radio, alternative audiences and progressive marketing. Make amends with your gay audience.

6. Cut out the conservative fundamentalist religious dogma. Re-explore your true universalist nature.

Cravens said:

To write and album full of catchy songs. In other words, music that sticks in your head and lyrics that even a kid can understand, without being patronising.

Other than that, anything goes.

And if he stuck to that formula, he'd probably end up back in the charts...

Erik

jdcxc said:

Interesting. I think we have similar ideas here. Prince either goes from one extreme (mystical lyrics that not even we understand), to the other (Resolution).

If you look at what songs were his biggest hits, they are always catchy, modern sounding (for the time) tracks with straighforward, but interesting lyrics. Raspberry Beret, Kiss, Let's Go Crazy, I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man, etc...

Good, solid lyrics, easy on the bullshit (save that for album tracks), that old fans like us can enjoy whilst being catchy and interesting lyrically to the young 'uns who buy music nowadays.

I'm kidding myself, aren't i?



Erik
[Edited 2/24/10 3:39am]

1. thou shalt have no other gods before me
~ don't sing about other celebs

2. thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
~ grow a fro and act natural

3. thou shalt not take the name of the Lord Thy God in vain
~ try not to sing "oh God i love it when her hips boom"

4. remember the sabbath day, keep it holy
~ don't record on sundays

5. honor thy father and thy mother
~ one jazz song with only primal drums as accompaniment

6. thou shalt not kill
~ don't use protools and say no to drugs

7. thou shalt not commit adultery
~ don't be singing about a bunch of different women you banged in one week

8. thou shalt not steal
~ don't use any loops or get your ideas from anywhere else but inside you

9. thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
~ don't diss people in your lyrics

10. thou shalt not covet
~ don't sing "i'm gonna get your girl she's mine all mine all mine"

citrus said:

That's funny, but for me, I'd be happy if he broke about 8 of those rules on his next record. We might get something in content on a par with the Gold Experience. haha
[Edited 2/24/10 3:58am]

erik319 said:

erik319 said:

which 2 would you keep?

citrus said:

I think I'd keep these two. Though .. lately, Prince is best when he's pissed with some of his fans, so .. not sure. Maybe the rule should be:

citrus said:

Protools & Stealing ideas

I don't know how to answer this question as a musician.

As a poet, I have learned that I can force myself to write without expectation for it's outcome.

A writing game that I've wanted to play with Prince since I was young, was a game my girlfriend and I used to play.

We would give eachother poem titles, and have 15 minutes to come up with something. At that age, the titles were on the extremely silly side, however, I learned that I could complete a poem that never would have dawned on me.

My point is to occassionally practice with spontaneous ideas, it is a skill that can help U later on.

...I've had my eye on you, ever since you walked in the room.....






























YES, I STINK SOMETIMES!!! ...

myfavorite said:

Huh?

1. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportioned thought his act.

2. Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.

3. Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel,
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatched, unfledged courage.

4. Beware of entrance to a quarrel; but being in,
Bear't that th' opposèd may beware of thee.

5. Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.

6. Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not expressed in fancy; rich, not gaudy,
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.

7. Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulleth edge of husbandry.

8. This above all, to thine own self be true,
And it must follow as the night the day
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

erik319 said:

good choices

From the Book of James Make it Funky

Well, here are some from me, which I believe actually could make an interesting set of dogma rules for Prince the musician:

1) No solos.

That means no guitar solo, no drum solo, no piano solo, no bass solo and no vocal solo. Yes, I know, solos are one of Prince’s strengths, but that is all the more reason to ban it, if the rules are to attempt to force the musician Prince to try out new things. A song based entirely on one long guitar solo or bass solo could however be allowed.

2) No vocal dubbing by the lead singer.

Yeah, Prince is good at layering his own vocals, or rather, he’s brilliant at it. Again, all the more reason to not allow it, if the aim is to win new artistic territory. In stead he could hire backing singers and other voices, if he wanted that sort of sound.

3) Either no digital music programs or only digital music programs.

No one is probably gonna like this one, but I think that the auto tune used by Prince (arguably) fails somewhat, not because it is trendy at the moment to use it (and therefore unhip) or because I think it betrays “musicianship” in as such, but because it’s a lukewarm attempt at embracing the new digital technology. So this rule aims at either cutting it out entirely, going bare, or taking the full step and explore everything computers can do, say, finding the Camille of the 2010s through new technology.
Drum machines and all of that I don’t consider part of the digital package and these would of course allowed to mix with the analogue.

4) All songs on the record must start in A minor (or any other chord, just pick one).

Yep, probably crazy. The Ravonettes tried this and got away with it (just barely, probably due to the lack of technical skill). The song doesn’t have to remain in minor; the progression can go where ever it wants to. The obstacle here is not about controlling how Prince should write his song, in what chords or in major or minor or anything, but is aimed at simply forcing him to invent a way around that particular note and into the song in his head, with out it sounding like the same start on ten songs through (on a record for instance). There’s energy to be picked up, I believe, in fighting with your song and having to over come it like a wild horse, before you can get it to ride you where you want to go.

5) Let at least one song explore the pentatonic scale from the East, maybe even on vocals.

Because Prince is such a good musician, there’s something to be said about trying out a new mind set musically and going where no major pop star has yet fully been. I imagine Prince is not technically comfortable with the Eastern scale and I think there’s something to be gained in trying to master something new, at a time where all that was new is mostly behind you.



And I can’t think of any other rules to set up.. but I still think it could be fun if Prince made some rules for himself, to limit himself and try to overcome those limits with ingenuity.

Anyway.
[Edited 2/25/10 7:03am]