murph said:

You like to write "lol" a lot don't you?

pald1 said:

Again...bravo on the epic snark....I think I'll give you my email so we can meet up...No need to stalk me homie...Be good..
[Edited 3/1/10 14:37pm]

I believe I was speaking to Errant....Unless I am mistaken...And if you think I'm snarky, you really haven't been reading some of the disrespectful things that have been said on this site...lol...It's not that serious homie...Be good and stay positive...Oh yeah...u didn't read my entire original post...I mentioned Stevie Wonder...Big time...As always...Peace...
[Edited 3/1/10 14:03pm]
[/quote]

Hey my friend

I did read your post. Which is exactly why I took the time to write two very long responses. I don't agree with your conclusion, but thought it was worthy of discussion.

My reference to Stevie and James Brown was in relation to today. What have they done lately? You referenced Stevie Wonder's last organic album in 1980. What about today?

Yet isn't Stevie afforded the royal treatment even though he is, as you say, a "jukebox" act now?

Any way, one of your earlier remarks was aimed at me, (and it was nowhere near what this last guy is saying). Don't feed the trolls my friend. if other people want to be 12 year olds, that's cool. I only brought it up because Errant and I took the time to give your hypothesis a decent back and forth and remarks like those aren't becoming of it.

Talk soon my friend....

murph said:

Really love your post ! In Prince words, I'm willing to do the work.
I was looking to why people are never satisfy with the recent output (cause & effect).
Well there is something that prove your point. His output is on another level. Because we expect him to surprise us every now and then... ad nauseum.
I'm sure that if we made 3 CD between '98 and now (like U2)... everything will be allright but apparently we can't let him do that :/

Between 1998 and 2009 (without Live CD or Greatest Hits)
Prince : count them... (it seems to me that it is minimum 15 CD - 189 songs)
Sting : 4 CD
U2 : 3 CD - 33 songs
Wendy & Lisa : 2 CD
Bruce Springsteen : 5 CD
Madonna : 5 CD
Radiohead : 4 CD
Paul McCartney : 4 CD
Bob Dylan : 3 CD
Joni Mitchell : 4 CD
David Bowie : 3 CD
[Edited 3/1/10 15:54pm]

Fenwick said:

Good point...And here's my answer....If we are talking about TODAY, then it's a bit more complex...In 2010 Stevie has gone past the point of having to ALWAYS prove himself given the fact that he is now largely a touring act...(although some folks on this same board have done the "Stevie has lost it" song and dance as well)....

But in my original post I specifically bring up Stevie in the context of his work following his great 70's run, not what he is doing in 2010...I was old enough to remember Stevie taking cheap shots from critics even with an album like Hotter Than July...I was old enough to remember the shade thrown at his albums after that release...I was also old enough to remember how Bruce Springsteen (again, an artist I respect and like) was treated during his "shaky" run...And I can say, it was completely different...

Fenwick said:

If I came at you at any disrespectful way then excuse the lack of tact (only if it wasn't deserved...ha!)....But seriously, the main problem with a lot of the posts debating my point was not that they disagreed with me...It's that they tried to boil down my entire point to this: PRINCE GETS CRITICIZED BECAUSE HE'S BLACK...Now, I would hope that people would come away from my point (whether they disagree or not) with more than that...Yes, race is one important factor, but it's not the only...There's also the way Prince (and other Super Negroes) have been billed as otherworldly do-it-all acts by their labels and by their PR people (and sometimes by their own people)....There's also the fact that "black" music is not always looked at in the same esteem as rock...There are a lot of components here...

As for my reaction to the homie Errant, I think I was being respectful given that some of his comments were shaky at best....

As for me being snarky, that's just not the case....Most of my more pointed comments came after being called out my name or completely disrespected (or continually having my entire point of my post being stripped down to using the race card even after explaining my point time and time again throughout this interesting and long thread..) Besides that I have been as cool as a cucumber....

And again, thanks for the feedback...

murph said:[quote]

errant said:

LF? no. that's actually a good example of what i was saying about seeing him occasionally just relaxing and working on trying to do something GOOD instead of chasing trends. MPLSound? as good as parts of it are, yes, it absolutely IS a prime example of him chasing trends. it's got great classic Prince moments sitting side by side with lame attempts at 21st century hipness.

murph said:

shaky? my only real point is that i don't see how you can say that Prince gets criticized because he's black when every example of white artists that you gave went through exactly the same thing. the only difference being that they're older and have come out the other side of it. Prince has not. I fully expect him to. But if any of your example artists had "graciously" donated a new "fight" song as horrendous and wrong-headed as "Puple & Gold," they'd be soundly criticized for it. and deservedly so.

errant said:

Interesting, homie....But again...I fail to see how Prince was trying to keep up with what's going on today with MPLSOUND...Where exactly is he chasing trends?....Oh, you mean when Prince recruited Q-Tip to rap on "Chocolate Box"? ....The same Q-Tip who has been in the music business since 1988?....The same Q-Tip who when looked at by his much younger hip hop peers (Tip is 40, I believe) is viewed as old school....I have a feeling that Prince wasn't trying to go after Gucci Mane or Lil Wayne's fans with that joint...

This must be said again....You have the right to like or dislike MPLSOUND or any other Prince album for that matter...My post was about some of the specific often times silly and irrational reasons why people dislike the music, beyond whether or not it sucks...For me, there are some parts on MPLSOUND and LOTUS felt were too forced and at times plodding and other parts had heart and was simply good...But I judged the music on its own merits...Not because of some reasoning that just doesn't fly when you dig beneath the surface...To some fans (and you may or may not fit this profile), Prince doing an "urban centric" album equals chasing trends...

That's telling because for the life of me songs like Dance 4 Me, U're Gonna C Me, Valentina, Better With Time, Ol' Skool Company, and No More Candy 4 U, whether u like them or not, are hardly chasing trends....They are basically Prince doing his own genre and sound of music (a sound that at its most basic is of the black R&B tradition), sometimes with success and sometimes with a few stumbles...

As is, your point doesn't hold much weight...But it was still a cool back and forth....Peace...
[Edited 3/2/10 7:50am]

murph said:

mmmm, I dunno. Prince put away his Linn drum for years until others brought it back. That's a lil trendy.

as for my point, I only addressed your initial post in which you blamed people's attitude toward Prince because he was black and that there was a double standard for him compared to older white artists. I re-iterate, there is no double standard, since every single one of them went through it as well.

murph said:

I agree with all of this. I fail to see how MPLSound is a trend chasing album anymore than any of Prince's other albums. To me, it's Prince being Prince with some flourishes of outside influence mixed in. If anything, it is less trend biting than anything he did in the early 90's....

Trendy, or not, the linn is part of Prince's trademark sound. It is crucial to the Minneapolis Sound. Furthermore, Prince started using the linn drum machine again, at least, as far back as the year 1999. Trendy? I think not.

murph said:

lol

murph said:

-----
Your post are great and I am not surprised none of these folks will even take the Super Negro idea into consideration since they all live in a racial fantasy world were racism does not exist and everyone is holding hands singing “kumba ya”. We will never resolve racial issues as long as we live in this fantasy world.

errant said:

Do you know what the word trendy means?

And can an artist be trendy producing with their own sound that made them a star 20 plus years ago?...Like I said, you are not adding up here...But it's cool...Stay positive and keep up the good fight...

pald1 said:

ditto....

laurarichardson said:

You living in a fantasy world. No, really?

murph said:

Not as funny as my original remark. Sorry.

pald1 said:

-----
No you are living in a fantasy world and you can do us all a favor and spare us the "kumba ya" bullshit.

In the USA if you are black you have got to work 20 times harder (which I don't mind doing) however it is never going to be good enough for some people ( thus the super negro theory)

You can take this information as being real or continue to stick your head in the sand. I am sure your going to choose the later so enjoy the view

laurarichardson said:

I don't like your aggressive tone, young lady. Please be more respectful in the future.

Super Negro or not... Prince deserves to be shitted on for suing the fansites and especially for fucking over Lotusflow3r suscribers. Fuck him.

He owes us an apology(and $77.00, but I'm not holding my breath).

pald1 said:

Pot meet kettle....

murph said:

You obviously have not followed the careers of Paul M, Dylan, or Young very closely . They were all trashed by the critics during the 80's and 90's. Paul M's first record was trounced by the critics .
[Edited 3/3/10 23:20pm]

murph said:

Why paraphrase the expression...hmmm.

No one gets irony here. Oh well.

chrisslope9 said:

Yes...they were indeed all trounced....Especially Dylan during his Christian faze...But if you notice, I never said they weren't criticized for releasing bad music...My underlining point was they were mostly criticized (fairly) on the merits of their music, not because they didn't live up to some impossible expectations...

murph said:

and they weren't trounced because the music sucked and wasn't living up to impossible expectations?

when you're talking Dylan, Young, McCartney, Mitchell, etc., that's exactly why it's getting trounced when it's downright bad or merely average. especially when it was a string of consecutive albums.

maya said:

i agree. you can't treat the paying fanbase like crap and expect things to work out in your favor.

Prince doesn't consider himself "negro" or "black" he considers/sees himself as multiracial:

http://www.newyorker.com/...-scen.html

We were having a larger conversation about his belief system and his politics. He told me he didn’t have a horse in the November election and that he didn’t believe in getting involved with these kind of earthly contests. I had asked him if the fact that Obama was black didn’t compel him to get involved.

He said, "Why?"

And I said, Well, because you’re black.

And he said "Am I?" and held up his wrist next to my ruddy one. Indeed his skin was lighter, and he cracked up.

Gonzalo1979 said:

Not this again Gonzalo, that interview was very misleading and could have been taken many ways and out of context. Many black people say that same thing among each other when they joking around. Why are you bringing that same argument to this thread to convince yourself the man is not Black? Have you not heard Prince's own sister speak during previous interviews about how their family were among the few Black families living in Minneapolis at the time they were growing up there? Who do you think she was talking about? Anyway, it doesn't make sense for you to bring this same argument to this thread, because you are just going to throw this thread off course, like you did to the other. Black people come in all shades from light-skinned to dark-skinned. let it go already,..geez.
[Edited 3/4/10 11:22am]

2elijah, this is a recent interview from Nov2008, Prince himself, and his mother have said in interviews which u can read in Prince biography books, that he is mixed, multiracial, part white father, part white part amerindian mother, are you denying Prince is multiracial or has any white in him?

i don't mean Prince is not black, i'm saying he's not just black, he's multiracial, he's black AND white AND amerindian. If u blend 10% white paint with 90% black paint, u can't call the resulting blend "black paint". Black is a race, 1 race, therefore "black" can't be a person of any race or combination of races, "black" is not like "hispanic" which is not a race, hispanic can be a person of any race or combination of races as it says in the US census.

Light skinned black people are not black, they are mixed.

soulfunky said:Saying that Prince is African American is like feeding me spaghetti w/ no sauce and calling it a meal.
Prince's ethnicity can not solely be claimed by Blacks or Whites or Italians or Indians. He's an earthling...like me.

2elijah said:

[Edited 3/4/10 11:33am]
[Edited 3/4/10 11:34am]

Gonzalo1979 said:

Gonzalo, I will respond only once to your question, just to share some info, because I don't want to take the thread off track:

There's really nothing to deny. African-Americans/Blacks are not 100% Black African, from Black African-ethnic groups. They do of course, share part of that ancestry in their DNA. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Blacks in America, whether they are "fair-skinned, light-skinned or dark-skinned" can be found to have a mixture of various race groups in their DNA. This just doesn't apply to Blacks in America, but others who may identify as Black around the world and are not born of two parents, directly from an African ethnic group. If you are not from two parents, directly from a specific, Black African, ethnic group(s) with no European or another non-black African group, then you are not 100% Black African, but can be a descendant or related to one of those African ethnic groups, just like many Black/African-Americans in this country are, including being related to a non-black African ethnic groups. This is nothing unusual, it's a fact. This explanation is not to "water-down or deny anyone identified as Black or African-American" or their African-ancestry/ racial identity, just sharing what are facts. Also please remember that not all Africans are dark-complected, which is another myth. Blacks in America appear in various complexions, so much, that is it not surprising that many are mistaken to be from non-black groups.

Try and understand why many of us define ourselves as African-American or Black. How much if anything do you know about African-American history? Prince's parents are Black. The people who suggested a white lady play the role of his mother in Purple Rain, obviously was decided to make the character's story more "interesting" and to attract a white audience to the movie, as well as bringing in profits from a mixed audience. His mother in real life, was a black woman. You should know if a book was not authorized by Prince, then obviously you should not believe what is in it. Prince's parents were both Black, his mother was a light-skinned black woman and his father was also black, and in American society, for Black Americans, regardless of what "other" traces of another race is in your DNA, as a Black male/female, you are classified as Black or African-American, whether you are a light-skinned or dark-skinned Black person.

Gonzalo, please also do not be fooled by darker-skinned African-Americans' complexions. In other words do not think because one has dark-skin that they do not have European DNA or any other DNA from another group, other than those of their African ancestors. My explanation is not of course, to deny or water down anyone's ancestry or deny they are not part of the Black or African-American group in America, according to American society's classification system.

Actor Don Cheadle is 13% European-he is a dark-skinned black man. Prof. Henry Gates announced Mr. Cheadle's DNA results on a public television station, and as you can see, Mr. Cheadle is a dark-skinned African-American. Professor Henry Gates is 50% European and 50% sub-saharan African-some would cassify him as bi-racial, but because he doesn't have society's perceived "look" of what a biracial person looks like, and because of his medium-brown skin tone, Prof. Gates would be defined by this society as an African-American/Black American, like many others from his group. Tom Joyner only has about 33% European DNA, and Tom is basically Prince's complexion, and lighter than Mr. Gates, yet Mr. Gates has more European DNA, and is darker-complected than Tom Joyner. This is why you cannot just assume that because someone who defines themselves as African-American/Black but is of a lighter-complexion, is not Black.

I'm Black/African-American born of Black parents from the Caribbean. I define myself as African-American or Black American or sometimes Black Caribbean American, whichever I choose, with all encompassing my African and Caribbean heritage/history/culture connected to members of these groups who share similar histories/cultures/language/dialect, etc., as mine. So I do believe I can answer your question, because of my experience and existence as an African-American women. My relatives are many skin tones. You do know that African-Americans have the most diverse DNA right? That is a "fact". The research is not hard to find. So that makes all African-Americans "multiracial" technically, but in this society, when an African-American chooses to refer to themselves as Black or African-American, it is used as an "identifier" to indicate they are from a specific, group with a shared/ history/similar connection(s) to various ethnic groups/cultures/w/similar languages/dialects, etc..

Our skin coloration is broad due to centuries of race mixing with Europeans, Native Americans, Asians, etc. Let's not forget what happened during the transatlantic slave trade in America and the Caribbean, and other parts of the world, when many of the slaveholders committed unspeakable acts against many young, African enslaved girls and women--not a topic most Americans like to talk about. It would be impossible for all of us to lay our DNA on the table, as a way to define our race/ethnicity on an individual basis, so in many societies, people are usually defined through race/ethnic group/shared histories/cultures/languges/dialects, although many consider that unfair and wish we could all be classified and accepted as the human beings we all are, unfortunately in the real world, that is not always embraced by many.

When you think of "Black" it does not necessarily indicate the individual has to have a dark-skin tone. It is a "general" term used to describe a whole group of people from a similar race/ethnic group with shared/similar cultures/language(s)/dialects and history. Nothing wrong with being Black, as a matter of fact it can be quite beautiful. Hope this answers your questions. Sorry for the long post, but it is better than going back and forth on the issue with several posts.

Gonzalo, at the end of the day, just appreciate the artist, Prince, for the human being that he is, and not let questions about his race/skin color be your deciding factor in accepting him for who he is..

Now hopefully we could get this thread back on track, and not disrespect the op of the thread by threadjacking it. (mods, my post was to just share/clear up some info with Gonzalo, and there was/is no intention to take this thread off topic. I apologize to op if this went off the thread topic a bit. Thank you
[Edited 3/5/10 10:28am]