jackson35 said:

Yeah you do, and thats fine. If you had just said 'I have issues with Prince as a person', nobody would have even batted an eye. But you keep coming on here spouting off about knowing all the private business negotiations and interactions that you could not have possibly been in on, going all the way back to the beginning of his career.

And Tom Joyner is known to be petty when he doesn't get what he wants. He slammed Whitney Houston for years because she wouldn't come on his show waaaay back in the day.

And can we all admit he bit off a little more than he can chew on this one. Prince aint gonna get hooked on crack nor become reality show fodder anytime soon, so dont hold your breath Mr. Joyner. Prince is 30 yrs. in, confirmed Hall of Famer and a genuis to boot, with i'm sure very strong charitable inroads to the black community that Joyner cant hate on. He also worked hard setting up a pretty untraditional, effective live appearance model that allows him to do what he wants and never be taken for granted- He has to charge like that, no more label backed tours or monster record sales. Prince aint never gettin on no tourbus again trust me. What Mr. Joyner needs to do (if he and prince are cool, which i'm sure they are) is squash it and rap at prince about a different medium that might tailor to the way prince is doing shit nowadays-no harm no foul.My point is based on his audience and influence he can easily make it seem as a slight to black folks, whether you believe it or not.

mr 69 i dont have a problem with prince. i have a problem with the the way he does business with black folks in this business. why wouldnt i known his business in terms of negotiating certain thing in regard to concert performing, his people call my group looking for promoters to promote his tired live acts or promoters call me wanting to hire him to do shows for them. the bottom line is tom joyner wanted prince to do a show on one their stops along the cruise and not on the cruise. prince just use this excuse to not do it because he not into helping young black people being independent because he is a control freak. if you dont believe me look at the wat he treated all the black folks in his band and his personal relations as oppose to wendy, lisa, alan leeds they all went off and landed on their feet while the other members had to sue him, go into drugs, leave his band broke, with no help from him.

jackson35 said:

You call his live acts tired, then if they're so tired, why complain about him not giving free tickets to black djs to see his shows? From what I understand he donated to a school run by an African-American woman some time ago;didn't he help out Spike Lee financially with the making of the movie "Malcolm X" , and donated to other charities? Did he not showcase young black artists at his 3121 club in Vegas, and at some of his aftershows? He's shown interest and concern for what goes on in the black community, and some of us gave you examples, one being when we spoke about Tavis, stating how Prince has always shown an interest in the discussions that take place during the SOBU annual conferences that concerns the black community, and other fans here provided other examples.

Now with all that, you claim his reason for not doing Tom's show was because he isn't into helping young, black people who are independent, because he wants to control them? I kind of beg to differ on that jackson, and it would be very hard for you to make your point a valid one.

Another thing, why would Prince have to be responsible for the future of his former band members? Don't you think a band member's responsibility is to already have a plan "B" mapped out, before they leave as a member of a band? Why do you think he should be responsible for their financial situation, once they are no longer a member of the band? With that being said, I really don't think he treats any of his former band members much different, unless he was were really close friends with some of them. Remember, he did say publically that "Everybody is not your friend."

As far as your comments about the way, you feel he treats black djs/radio personalities/black media regarding promotion of his shows/interviews, one can say that is only based on your opinion of him, and I don't know what your intentions are, but hopefully you're not using that situation with Tom to intentionally come here, and divide Prince and his African-American fan base, because you sure sound like you have an agenda. No disrespect, but I'm just not buying your BS. Nice chatting with ya though.
[Edited 2/25/10 21:35pm]

prince and his handlers divided his black fan base not me. when prince held his purple rain party in la, did he invite tom joyner or any other black jock to this event the answer is no. as a matter of fact he didnt invite any of them to the other premiere partys to his movies. when he has his famous after show concert does he invite the black press, black jocks or black writer to this and the answer is hell no. most of the big shots have to call white execs or white associate to go. the biggest stink out of the musicology tour was when people like Howard stern and other shock jocks were invited to his show who by the way been bad mouthing his output for years and now he can get a front row seat to his show. jack the rapper invited prince to bring his band to perform cuts from his d&p album and then before you known it, that album takes off like a rocket, knocking Micheal Jackson off number 1 selling 7 million records, a sellout tour and yet he still wont give black media their props in standing by him even when everybody did.

jackson35 said:

You really do have an agenda, Because your talking about a deliberate attempt to alienate a certain segment of his audience. I'm speaking from down low, as a listener, not the dude who called the dude to take care of whatever the hell when he toured.I'm saying when Prince went into the studio and recorded Around the World in a day-based on the black community i knew ( to make sure Andy dont jump in on this) there was a distinct falloff and a more vocal displeasure with his experimentation. I remember hearing "i cant fuck with that nigga he trippin" from a lot of people who were jocking him only a year earlier.Any legitimate chronicle of Prince's rise to fame will note that even as a kid he wanted a concentrated effort( from WB) to market his work to a larger audience- and i'm sorry this means white people too. Why would this 18 year old black kid insist on this? hmmm? maybe, as a student of music he'd seen how arbitrary and fickle we as an audience can be, he saw disco turn James Brown into a has been-so he didnt trust us in that sense. Dont get it twisted, we are wildly creative and innovative but because of this we are easy to discard; why the hell do you think every blues bar is filled with white folks? and dont get them started on how dismissive we can be as an audience because white baby boomers feed them. I dont blame Prince one bit for coveting a more secure fanbase, a more diverse group that can sustain him through rough patches because to say that audience is African american is a myth-we throw away rappers every three months!. Hell, i saw Big Daddy Kane, BDP, Kool Moe Dee and Whodini one night for 15 bucks lol dont blame Prince for having the foresight to plan a career that kept him off of that circuit. If feelings (like yours) get hurt in the execution then so be it but the same folks that critisize him for being above certain shit certainly wont feed him when he's down. Prince dont have to prove his allegence to black radio to you, Tom Joyner or anybody else, his longevity if left in our hands would have been tenious at best in 2010. Like i stated earlier, he does his charitible business in ways none of us know about and none of those ways include kissing Tom Joyners ass.

sweething said:

Luv this!

thedoorkeeper said:

jackson35 said:

Prince is embroiled in a little legal dispute right now, pissing fans of a mostly white nation, a white promoter, a white agent etc. etc.

I think you put too much emphasis on your own racism,.... Prince, as talented as he is has shown time and again that he will be a dick to ANYONE regardless of race.

I think some people tend to automatically see the worst in Prince and pick on him because he is just an easy target for some to bash. But overall I think he is basically the same as most "artists".....that's "artists" with the little finger quotes that people do.

[Edited 2/26/10 6:33am]

jackson35 said:

-----
So it is P's fault they went on drugs!!! and left his band broke.

jackson35 said:

So you're still holding a grudge from 20 years ago it seems. Jackson, when Prince gave his parties in LA during his 3121 cd release, you're going to sit here and tell me no black celebrities were at those parties? If you had read some of the posts about those parties, that were posted here and on other unofficial Prince fan sites, you would have known this, also what was written in the press about some of those parties and the attendees. You would have known, there were plenty of black celebrities at his house parties back in 2006-2007. Many of his fans were present when some black celebrities were at Prince's shows/concerts. At the Butter Restaurant show in NYC in 2006, the private concert he gave for some of his fans from his former NPGMC website club, I remember seeing Stephen Hill from BET up at the mic, ,singing during a set Prince did that night. I remember Questlove playing drums on one of the sets with Prince that night as well at the Butter Restaurant show. Then in October 2008, Dave Chapelle was at a show Prince gave at the Gansevoort Hotel, at a charity that involved Taja Sevelle's;Dave was at the evening show, and got on stage and entertained the audience, when Prince and his band took a break

He's also let younger acts like J*Davey perform at his 3121 Club in Vegas and gave them some exposure. What about Esperanza Spalding, who I heard from some fans, played at one of Prince's aftershows in Vegas? So how are you going to say he doesn't treat some young, black artists, black media folks/celebrities right or get them into his shows, when many of his fans, witnessed some of these folks at his shows? A lot of what you are stating in your post can't hold a cup of water, and it really seems like you have been holding on to a deep grudge since the Purple Rain days, and can't let go, and you come here to tear him down, because you don't like the way he's dealt with some of your black dj friends/promoters. Prince doesn't owe the black community or any other community anything, other than thank you for your support, and he's already said thank you many times to a multitude of his fans over the years, at his shows. Not to mention discount tickets/free tickets from concerts, free music, and has given his club member fans early pre-sales to his shows, before the tickets were sold to the general public; not to mention giving them a chance to get front row to middle seats at many larger veues. He's also often let his club member fans into his shows first, (i.e. Vega) at venues, creating separate lines for them, before letting non-members into his shows first. I mean, what more can you ask for?

I think it's time for you to just let it go. If you don't like the way he does business, then there's really not much you can do but move on, because whining about it on an unoffical fan site, won't change a thing. Hope someday you find peace in all of this and just let go
[Edited 2/26/10 7:22am]

violetblues said:[quote]

jackson35 said:

Prince is embroiled in a little legal dispute right now, pissing fans of a mostly white nation, a white promoter, a white agent etc. etc.

I think you put too much emphasis on your own racism,.... Prince, as talented as he is has shown time and again that he will be a dick to ANYONE regardless of race.


I think some people tend to automatically see the worst in Prince and pick on him because he is just an easy target for some to bash. But overall I think he is basically the same as most "artists".....that's "artists" with the little finger quotes that people do.



Dreamshaman32 says :Good observation, i think Jackson is trying to be subtle in calling prince a sellout or some sort of uncle tom. That isnt true, prince put is ass out there lyrically on a lot of occasions pissing off even white loyal fans Radical Man 2045 anyone?. I love your post, sorry Jackson Prince is a equal opportunity asshole, anybody regardless of race can get a piece of his purple bullshit. Prince dont sit around with a team of Aryan serpents planning the destruction of black radio lol? his pompous behaviour is free flowing and improvisational lol
[Edited 2/26/10 6:33am]
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[Edited 2/26/10 9:51am]
[Edited 2/26/10 9:52am]

iam not calling prince a sellout. i think prince is a real talented man and a good showmam, but he is also spineless for letting management guide his career in a racist fashion against his core fan base. fargnoli was the one that told prince not to do we are the world and instead he try to cover it up by saying that he was too shy to do it. it was fargnoli who suggested that prince get a white woman to play his mama in purple rain as oppose to getting a black woman. i just think that prince could have got someone more sensitive to his career then cavallo ruffalo and fargnoli. i mean in the end they try to sue him because prince was tired of following their racist advice on how to be mainstream. did any of you see how pissed prince look at the purple rain premiere party, it was about his handlers. but then prince get rid of these guys and then he turns around and get the same type of management that has the same mentality. but i guess we are going to have to agree to disagree ... have a nice weekend people.

tom joyner sounds like an arsehole. his comment wasn't exactly charitable. princey should have asked for more $

jackson35 said:

Well the point about cavallo, ruffalo, and fargnoli I can agree with as far as making those choices for him to have a white lady play his mother, and they did it to draw in white fans, and to bring that money in, which was obviously their main interest it seems, at the expense of Prince's dignity. They saw a talented, black musician who could pull in crowds from both ends of the scale (multiracial);they saw Prince as a product they could pimp to white audiences, because he was a black artist whose music could crossover, and the fact that he played "rock" would appeal to them. They knew there wasn't any other black artist at the time, doing what Prince did, playing rock music that could draw a large, white fan base, as well as a racially-diversed one. They saw profit in this.

Keep in mind, he was very young at the time, and it seems he's become tougher in his decisions as to who he chooses to do business with for good reason. I mean many artists get used a lot in this industry, because people use them as a tool for their own money interests, and not really concerned about the inner feelings or artistic interests of artists.

I guess you learn along the way. In my opinion, the man he is today, doesn't look like he takes any nonsense business-wise from anyone, whether black or white in the industry. As far as his latest band members, he's had more black members in his band for the past 3 years and seems to be content with that; no disrespect to white artists, but the image of his band has changed in the past 3 years.

He has also showcased other known black musicians/singers that play in his band from time to time during the period, like Maceo, Mike Phillips, and introduced new artists like Esperanza Spalding, like Frank Yonnet. He's also helped to promote Tamar, for the time she was in his band. He also has had Shelby J. as his back up singer for quite some time now, as well as having Marva King perform with him, as part of his band for a while. In my opinion, he's pretty much given a lot of these folks their 15 minutes of fame. During 2006-2007, it seems his music was on a funk level/r&b and when 2008 came in, it seems he sort of went in the pop/jazz/rock direction.

I guess one has to live and learn through experience, and it seems he's changed his "handlers" several times during his career. It seems like so many folks are trying to pull him in one direction with his music, and want to mold him into what they want him to be, instead of accepting him for the the artist he is "now". Anyway, although we did not agree on the Tom Joyner situation, it's been a pretty good conversation piece, and with that being said, I guess we'll have to leave our opinions, as is for now, and agree to disagree like you stated.
[Edited 2/26/10 20:09pm]